Fans Overreact to SEGA Employee's Statement. Again

[KittyNakajima]

I do not know if this has already been made into a topic, but since everyone else seems to be talking about it, especially amid the apparent unease given SEGA's recent Needlemouse stunt, I present you with these:

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Exhibit C

There's a reason I posted them in that order because I want people to read and see it in that order. Employee (our friendly neighborhood AAUK btw) makes a statement on one of SEGA's blogs about the elitism that some fans tend to display and throw around within the fandom. Enter TSSZ picking this up as a news story and slanting this (but that's nothing new Edit: Inflammatory - T) , and it gets back to SEGA's official forums where the statement of some choice fans may or may not have proven AAUK's initial sentiment.

Basically, I'm just bringing this up because this is rather silly and thought it'd be worth a laugh, since this echoes back to a similar incident last year in which some fans flipped out over a statement about the rights to SATaM on SEGA's Twitter account. I fear a similar sentiment might be happening because of something one person - who also happens to be an employee of SEGA said. One who as far as I know has also been a fan of the series for as long as some of these elitists have been fans themselves.

Anyway, what do you guys think?

Edit: Whoa, who edited my Topic title? LOL.

Edited January 20, 2010 by KittyNakajima

[Frozen Nitrogen]

I do love me some Internet Drama.

And as always, Sonic histrionics deliver.

*popcorn*

[Light]

A representative from a company states their opinion. Afterward a blogger or whatever puts a creative spin on the statement and calls it news. Only a couple sites do this and "news" articles such as the one in Exhibit B are meant to be provocative. I wish the people in Exhibit C would realize that.

Also, Sonic is not anything to get worked up about really. Have fun. It's just a fukin video game franchise... just sayin.

[Dark Qiviut]

*shares Nitogen's popcorn*

I also replied, and in the Sega Forums, very critically. Unfortunately, my harsh replies weren't able to start some mini-drama yet. *evil laugh*

Edited January 20, 2010 by Dark Qiviut

[Cake]

No wonder the rest of the internet hates Sonic fans. X_x

[Frozen Nitrogen]

No wonder the rest of the internet hates Sonic fans. X_x

It's just 'cos we're so damn good at trolling ourselves. The constant fizzing upheval of discontent is strange and disturbing to most. :3

[Dr. Mechano]

I do love me some Internet Drama.

And as always, Sonic histrionics deliver.

*popcorn*

I concur, Frozen Nitrogen. The Sonic community's alarming tendency toward drama is, I think, rather notable compared to most fandoms.

Having divergent opinions on things in the fandom shouldn't lead to emotionally-charged squabbles. At the end of the day, you're arguing about a silly blue erinaceinae who battles a goofy old fat man in a flying machine... Or a poetic tale of man versus nature as a hip freedom fighter takes down a mechanized dictator, if you're a fan of one of those obviously inferior western Sonic continuities. (This was a joke, in case anyone missed that) Is it really a subject matter worth getting angry over? Really?

We all have different positions on what Sonic means to us, though to stipulate that Sonic "should" be one thing or another is silly. Whether it's Japanese storyline versus western storyline, classic era versus modern era, games versus comics, or any number of other done-to-death debates, there is no resolution, no "right" answer for these issues.

It's a double-edged sword. Sonic's been portrayed in so many ways, from the overtly camp to the overtly dramatic- On the plus side, it gives lots of people lots of options to pick from, making the Sonic cast more accessible to more types of fans. On the down side, elitism can sprout from any fandom of any iteration of the series, with the more extreme fans declaring their take on the franchise inherently superior to others.

Just relax, guys. Enjoy the parts of the franchise you like, don't enjoy the parts of the franchise you don't like- But don't feel enraged or wronged by others having different preferences than you do. Amusingly, I've been accused of being both a "classic elitist" and an "ignorant modern fan" by extremists on both sides (Because neither side seemed to understand my, or even their own, position).

[Diogenes]

I really think there's a certain type of longtime fan that needs to be taken down a peg or two. Or at least needs a serious dose of perspective.

I mean, there was a time when I sympathized with them. There's a time when I'd gladly support the classic Sonic movement. But when it changes from "the old games were better, they should go back to doing it like that" to "SEGA is stupid, you're stupid for liking it, the only way Sonic can ever be good is to do exactly what we, the REAL Sonic fans, tell you to do", then you're not helping anyone. You're hurting your own case, you're driving the wedge in the fanbase even deeper, you're rejecting ideas without considering their actual quality, and you're making the entire fanbase look like a bunch of raving loons (which we probably are, but they don't need to know that).

It's gotten to the point where it's hard to enjoy anything from this series. I'm not really happy with the games as they are now, but the whole "classic Sonic was better" idea has been so poisoned by this bullshit that it's sickening. Part of me almost hopes Needlemouse fails purely so these people have to eat their words...except I know they won't, because they'd just blame it on whatever isn't identical to the classics and keep begging for a "real" Sonic game like they always have.

Ah well. At least I still have the Rushes...

Edited January 20, 2010 by Diogenes

[KittyNakajima]

*shares Nitogen's popcorn*

I also replied, and in the Sega Forums, very critically. Unfortunately, my harsh replies weren't able to start some mini-drama yet. *evil laugh*

You and Red's replies were a riot to read. :3 A+++, I might add.

Part of me laughs because I know it's true and the other part wants to facepalm so hard, especially as most of these are adults my own age. I'd dare say it's like getting mad at Ronald McDonald for saying you can't have a happy meal because you're not a kid. xD

[redmenace]

I’m talking about that rather annoying spectre that haunts the Sonic Community at times, namely the “we’re better than they are” types of Sonic fan.

Now the vast majority of old school fans are awesome, absoluetly S-Rank superstars – BUT there are those out there that believe that all Sonic games should be for them.

“Now please you guys, don’t focus group this game with stupid children who have no business playing Sonic."

I’m getting a bit weary of these elitist “real fan” type of comments...

Firstly, Sonic has always been a game with kids at their heart. We’ve all grown up over the last 18 years, Sonic’s focus overall has not really shifted in that time.

“Children have no business playing Sonic” is utter Pingas of the highest order.

Guys, newer fans like the Sonic X-generation fan or even fans who became Sonic fans with Unleashed are entitled to their opinions – even about Needlemouse.

Just because they’re younger, it doesn’t mean your opinion is better (it doesn’t mean its worse either) and that they don’t know anything, and saying they are aren’t isn’t exactly display the sort of maturity 18 years should’ve accumulated.

Look, I can selective quote too. The guy said nothing wrong. And of course, TSSZ picked the post up, torn it apart and people who didn't read well rushed in crying about the injustice of the world. I mean, did they even read? What the hell is wrong in what he said? Nothing. Nothing at all.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Whoa, I'm stoked that somebody at Sega actually had the balls to point out the elitism from Classic fans in the fanbase. I was not ever expecting this to happen.

I'm kind of glad that they pointed it out and feel that the fanbase needs to be more mature, and I'm not going to lie, I think it's a good thing that somebody at Sega had the guts to say this. It shows that Sega are even more aware of both sides of the fanbase, and that even they know that people are taking things on an insane and ridiculous level.

Looks like Sega is more wanting to bring together the fans as much as others do. Needless to say, this is quite some news.

Of course, someone is going to twist what the guy says out of proportion. I think it's because they're mad that Sega of all people actually gave them a swat on the hand instead of spoiling them like they want. It's almost like raising a child in this sense.

Edited January 20, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[MasterChaosZX]

Wow, people got mad because SEGA said kids can play Project needlemouse too?

[AuroraRedwinters]

Between Sonic and Livejournal drama, who needs soap operas?

[Light]

Wow, people got mad because SEGA said kids can play Project needlemouse too?

He said every fan is entitled to their opinion but that doesn't make their opinion above/better than another fan. Apparently that pissed a lot of people off.

Edited January 20, 2010 by Light

[Dr. Mechano]

Whoa, I'm stoked that somebody at Sega actually had the balls to point out the elitism from Classic fans in the fanbase. I was not ever expecting this to happen.

Elitism is not limited to any sect of the fandom. Modern fans can be just as elitist as classic fans, just saying.

I've noticed a sort of prejudice against classic fans- It's not uncommon for "people who just so happen to prefer the classic games" to be harshly labelled as "classic elitists" for their stance. Yes, there are classic elitists out there who make huge jerks of themselves, but it's gotten to where this is the base stereotype for all classic fans- A harsh and totally unfair generalization, if I do say so, made of course by elitists on the other side of the spectrum.

Edited January 20, 2010 by Dr. Mechano

[Tornado]

The TSSZ news piece is pure gold. I especially like the insinuation that telling the fans to chill the fuck out could spell financial ruin for the game (oh noes!). Last I checked, the only way for a Sonic game to sell bad was to make it a PSP exclusive, and even then it will get a sequel.

The original blog is a fun read too, because its fun when the company representing the crazies steps back and calls them out for being crazies (officially or not). That was one of the reasons that I always loved Simon Jeffery, because he did the same thing in most of his interviews.

Edited January 20, 2010 by Tornado

[JaidynReiman]

Elitism is not limited to any sect of the fandom. Modern fans can be just as elitist as classic fans, just saying.

I've noticed a sort of prejudice against classic fans- It's not uncommon for "people who just so happen to prefer the classic games" to be harshly labelled as "classic elitists" for their stance. Yes, there are classic elitists out there who make huge jerks of themselves, but it's gotten to where this is the base stereotype for all classic fans- A harsh and totally unfair generalization, if I do say so, made of course by elitists on the other side of the spectrum.

I consider myself a classic fan, because I grew up with Sonic when I was a kid myself and played his early games. Though I actually started with Sonic 3, and I didn't get to play it quite a bit later than most originals, I still played a lot of the early games regardless and enjoyed them. Sonic 2 was the second Sonic title I got, along with others such as Sonic CD (on PC).

I think there's a big difference between "classic fan" and "classic elitist." The "classic elitists" think that everything should go straight back to the way it was, no questions asked. Sonic is not, never has, nor never will be good in 3D, and all the currently released Sonic games are utter crap, regardless of actual quality (its crap because its not "the classics").

Fans who actually take the time to make a judgment on recent titles and say if its crap or not based on the gameplay, and not based on how close it is to the classics, are the better ones.

These are typically the two sides to the classic fanbase people talk about, and most people around here tend to keep it that way. We're not trying to yell and scream about all "classic" fans. Just the ones who make themselves out to be ***holes to everyone else.

And I doubt anyone here denies that "modern elitists" exist, either. Its just that they're not as common.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Elitism is not limited to any sect of the fandom. Modern fans can be just as elitist as classic fans, just saying.

I'm a Classic fan as much as I am a Modern fan, and I'm not afraid to single out either side when one of them really acts ups.

That said, I'm aware of the elitism from both sides, but with the advent of Project Needlemouse I'm seeing a much stronger concentration of it from who I feel are the more vocal Classic side, and I'm not saying that to be prejudice against classic fans.

I've noticed a sort of prejudice against classic fans- It's not uncommon for "people who just so happen to prefer the classic games" to be harshly labelled as "classic elitists" for their stance. Yes, there are classic elitists out there who make huge jerks of themselves, but it's gotten to where this is the base stereotype for all classic fans- A harsh and totally unfair generalization, if I do say so, made of course by elitists on the other side of the spectrum.

To be fair, Dr. Mechano, the modern fans aren't seeing the bright side of things either. It really works both ways, and with the more vocal Classic fans yelling their voices outside the fandom it's not like it's the Classic fans are the only ones facing prejudice.

There's prejudice against modern fans where it isn't uncommon for "people who happen to prefer the modern games" to be labeled as "Noobs" who have shitty tastes in games. Both sides have gotten to the stage where they can't seem to say one thing without someone being oversensitive to words and being offended by someone who softly says "I don't prefer [X]" and throwing a fit.

Classic fans may be unfairly generalized as "Classic Elitist", but Modern fans are exactly getting any royal treatment either. There's a big difference between what is a fan and what is an elitist, and if we're gonna get this sensitive for pointing it out on either side then we're only helping to blur that line between a "fan" and "elitist".

As much as we can differ in views, Dr. Mechano, you should know me well enough that I don't use the actions of a few people to stereotype an entire group. When I say "Classic Elitist" know that I'm specifically talking about the "Classic Elitist", not the Classic Fans as a whole.

I will admit tho, my wording wasn't exactly clear in explaining that in that previous post, so my mistake.

Edited January 20, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Dr. Mechano]

As much as we can differ in views, Dr. Mechano, you should know me well enough that I don't use the actions of a few people to stereotype an entire group. When I say "Classic Elitist" know that I'm specifically talking about the "Classic Elitist", not the Classic Fans as a whole.

Ah, CSS, my post wasn't directed at you in an accusatory fashion. I was a bit vague myself, and I apologize- The only bit I meant specifically directed at you was my opening statement. The rest was just me elaborating on the general idea that elitism is prominent and problematic in all parts of the fandom, meant more as a general statement.

However, I'm sorry for not making that clearer, and hope it didn't seem like I was accusing you of generalizing anyone.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

However, I'm sorry for not making that clearer, and hope it didn't seem like I was accusing you of generalizing anyone.

It's okay. It's only fair you point out similar actions from the other end, right?

And I doubt anyone here denies that "modern elitists" exist, either. Its just that they're not as common.

I wouldn't exactly say they're not as common, UltimaHedgie, but that they're not as vocal or not as well connected as Classic Fans. There's a general consensus that Classic fans agree to on what they like, but you can't exactly say that with Modern fans as they seem to jump from one idea to another.

[Tornado]

There is also the fact that, while they aren't necessarily more "right," elitists within the classic fans do typically get more support.

[Marcello]

I'm not a classic or modern Sonic fan, I'm just a Sonic fan (OH YEAH!).. Sure, S3&K is my favorite Sonic game, but I like Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 more than Sonic and Sonic 2..

Anyway, I don't understand why waht AAUK said is bringing such drama. He didn't say anything bad :-/

Edited January 20, 2010 by MarcelloF

[Meow]

I've noticed some of the comments on that article state that kids are dumb and have no idea what makes this franchise great, yet it angers me because as I recall- a lot of us fans were kids when the series was first introduced, and SEGA was obviously aiming it towards the younger generation (trying to be edgy and cool and whatnot). So really, these people need to take the sticks out of their asses and just shut the fuck up. I'm so sick and tired of this fanbase, it angers me because the vast majority like to argue over the stupidest bullshit while the rest of the gaming community makes fun of us. You want to know why? Because we get so passionate about who voices who, or what character a is wearing, or whether or not character b is in such and such game, or who is the primary villain, or what color the main characters fucking eyes are. Who cares as long as a game is fun and playable? Honestly. Games are made to be FUN and not to spawn 40 page topics about dumb crap.

This shit over a comment made by a guy at SEGA who was trying to keep the peace is insanely stupid and just adds to another wonderful facepalm that this fanbase can get. It seems to me that some parts of the fandom are not content on getting at each others throats over Needlemouse crap anymore that now they are going all batshit on SEGA employees themselves, who might I add do wonderful things for us. Free Stuff Fridays, keeping in touch with its fanbase. You know...the stuff nice developers should be doing! Way to go fandom! I know its not all bad, I've seen real cool stuff come out of this fandom and know there are really cool people but it seems like the people who are rational about stuff are limited to a distinct minority, while every part of the gaming community mocks us for our terrible majority. Thankfully we have a bunch of level headed people that write for the front page here, at least its level headed and reasonable and doesn't drive me up the wall. This fandom sucks.

[Djawed]

Ahahahaha Screw you,Sega!

If you didnt have the old school fanbase,you never would have had the chance at making video games period.We kept you a float in the 90s and you screwed yourselves by releasing the DC before PS2. Project Needlemouse is being created because the old school fans have spoken and we want something without a light spin dash upgrade for a change.

(Sonic Adventure for dreamcast was an amazing game and also one of his only great 3D romps as is Unleashed...even though the werehog levels in shamaar sucked.)Thats just for anyone whos ready to call me a purist...Iv played all the games and I have my own opinion on each one.

__________________

This guy speaks truth i think.

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?t=309984&page=10

I am one of the "classic fans" if i had to use one of those terms and I also feel a bit screwed for supporting sonic. People say that it's for kids this and that blabla. That's not even true, sonic games are for everyone, it's just an excuse for all those mediocre games and that's just low.

Sonic is no friggin teletubbies or tweenies or whatever. Sometimes i think the guys at sonicteam/sega dont know shit about their own franchise that they can't even describe it. If sonic was for kids than why do they make eggmanland?? Whatsup with that?

I think it's a psychological thing. It has been said so many times that SEGA/sonicteam started to believe in all the labeling. I dont know because i remember sonic to be popular from my age of 4 to boys of 16. Sonic was big.

That explains the whole identity crisis sonic's been having. Needlemouse should fix this

Edit: and of course the money

Edited January 20, 2010 by Jaouad

[redmenace]

The TSSZ news piece is pure gold. I especially like the insinuation that telling the fans to chill the fuck out could spell financial ruin for the game (oh noes!). Last I checked, the only way for a Sonic game to sell bad was to make it a PSP exclusive, and even then it will get a sequel.

The original blog is a fun read too, because its fun when the company representing the crazies steps back and calls them out for being crazies (officially or not). That was one of the reasons that I always loved Simon Jeffery, because he did the same thing in most of his interviews.

Simon Jeffrey didn't know what he was talking about most of the time. Many times, he was completely out of touch of SEGA in general even. That was his problem, but I didn't severly dislike the guy. He was no Peter Moore.

____

And of course there's a huge difference between a classic fan and an elitist fan. AAUK even SAYS SO and MAKES THE DISTINCTION on the first paragraph. He calls classic fans awesome as if it weren't enough. But of course, trigger happy readers didn't read that or chose not to remember it and we're left with this mess. My nephew does prettier things on his diapers.

There is also the fact that, while they aren't necessarily more "right," elitists within the classic fans do typically get more support.

Well, that's because classic fans and elitist fans tend to like... ehr... classic designs at a lack of a better expression, therefore there's some mingling. But then this kind of thing happens, and we know exacly where everyone stands. The truth is that this little stunt here didn't push any button to the majority of classic fans I know. They even think it's right, some of them are downright as childish and as immature as the new Sonic fans who liked... ehr... the Werehog?

I didn't hate the werehog, to me it was just there and it was fun in some parts. I'm not a child, but I suppose this was a good example because hey're always listing it for some reason. If I'd prefer proper physics? One thousand times yes but that isn't the point.

_____

And the franchise has always been targeted to children. Just like Disney, but like it, it also broadens to a wider fanbase if it's a good game. I wouldn't care one fish stick if I had to play the most childish plot out there, if the game was very good. So those who sit and boo boo about what is said about Sonic and his target audience, really need to grow up past "only adult things can make an adult happy". Proper physics and all the classic gear isn't inherently adult nor is the new stuff inherently childish.

Edited January 20, 2010 by redmenace