What Will You Do if Needlemouse Is Terrible?

[SuperStingray]

Also it would show that the new fans were not the cause of all the mediocre games.

I never understood this mindset. Since when do fans determine whether or not a game is good? Sure, they may influence certain ideas or mechanics, but 100% of the responsibility for making the game fun lies on the developers.

Edited January 21, 2010 by SuperStingray

[Diogenes]

This part doesnt even make sense.

Why are you pointing at the elitist,

Because for years I've had to put up with people balking at any change (proposed or actual) that isn't bringing the series back to its origins, and acting as if all Sonic Team needs to do (and the only thing that can be done) to "save Sonic" is reset the series back to 1994.

If Needlemouse is the game they've been asking for but bad, then that means it's not (just) the modern additions that have been hurting the series, that doing things like the classics is not some miracle cure, and that this extremist hard-headed bullshit didn't save Sonic. And I will laugh.

And, if they actually get the point, we might actually be able to take a step towards fixing this fanbase.

[Rusty Spy]

-If the game is received poorly but I personally like it, I probably won't mind that much since at least I will have enjoyed it.

-If it's received well but I personally DON'T like it because it's not what I was expecting, i.e at least a game that's like the classics, i.e is like any 2D game after S3&K, than I may be severely disappointed by the fact that most people and most importantly Sonic Team seem to think that any of those games were anything like the old games. But of course I may like it anyway as a fun game, but still be disappointed that they have an awkward definition of what a "classic" game is really like. Though I doubt it'll come to that since, if the concept art is anything to go by, they may be going all the way with this one.

-If it's received well but I personally don't like it because I just couldn't get into the game, i.e gave me the same feeling after playing the Rushes, than I'll at least be happy that it was a good game and was successful and hope the next game sparks my interest while playing it.

Off Topic: I think the main reason I don't like the Rushes all that much is because of hype overload and it building such high expectations from me that couldn't possibly be met by the game.

[Machenstein]

What will I do if Project Needlemouse ends up failing? Well that depends on how hard it fails.

If it merely disappoints, I will try to enjoy the game in spite of its lukewarm reception. The game could be worse, I'll say to myself. It could have been so broken and unfinished that it would be nigh unplayable. It could have had poor controls and levels ridden with cheap deaths, not to mention the wonky physics from Sonic 1 GBA. It does not do anything innovative that sets it apart from the other 2D games, but at least it's better than something like Shadow or Sonic 2006. It's fun and that's all that matters.

If it ends up being terrible in every conceivable way, I will try not to rage, but I will quit and move on to Mario. Mario may not be able to fill the void that Sonic has left, but it's better than nothing. It will finally become plainly evident to me that Sonic is not worth attaching my pride to anymore. But I will also come to the realization that the problem really is Sonic Team and their inability to understand important game fundamentals such as "good controls", "good level design", and "fun".

[Frozen Nitrogen]

And, if they actually get the point, we might actually be able to take a step towards fixing this fanbase.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

And, if they actually get the point, we might actually be able to take a step towards fixing this fanbase.

It's possibilities like this that make me want the game to fall flat on its face. Of course hoping for this might cause problems.

It also makes me wonder how the split fanbase will react towards each other. I get the feeling that Modern Fans onto Classic Fans what Classic fans did to them and antagonize them would be the worst case scenario, and we'd be right smack dab in year 2005 with more of the same bullshit that came from that time.

It's like chemistry, a single mess up could make a highly reactive explosion. Of course, you guys know me, I'm going to be chillin in the back laughing at everyone.

I think "might" was the keyword in what Diogenes is saying. There's a possibility that we could fix some mighty big cracks in the fanbase as the ideal scenario, or if human pride takes an ugly turn for the worst and people would end up cracking the fanbase even further. Or we might even get both.

I'd say a few worst case scenarios that could happen if Needlemouse were to succeed, but it seems as though Sonic Team are fully aware of the absolute bullshit that can come out of the elitists within the fanbase, so alls good there.

Edited January 21, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[JezMM]

Guys who plan to laugh at oldschool people: You do realise that they can do everything the old games did but do it BADLY right? There's nothing wrong with either the old or the new ideas, what it comes down to is the execution, and whether the final product is fun or not.

Me? I'll prolly like it on some level anyway, and I will go onto forums and appropriately discuss what I liked and disliked.

[Flyboy Fox]

Although I am a pretty hardcore classics fan, I really don't think I'll be that bothered if this fails, because my fandom lies mostly within my own fantasies and ideas than in what's currently being produced. A fail!game won't stop me from role-playing, drawing, writing, inventing scenarios or watching/playing old-school Sonic stuff. I'm not depending on SEGA to deliver water to my parched lips. I'll be very happy if the game DOES deliver, but I can shrug it off with a nonchalant 'eh' if it doesn't.

[psikeout]

I'll be a tiny bit disappointed if it's terrible, but unsurprised. Really, though, I think history is in favor of the game being decent—Playable, but neither great nor awful. At the same time, history also shows that a lump of the fanbase will love it to awful death, even though it's mediocre, while the other half will ignore its merits entirely and utterly hate it, because this is the most ass-backward fandom, where elitists do nothing bit sit around complaining about elitists while tooting their own horns about how elitely open-minded they are compared to those damned elitists.

I am getting so tired of the word "elitist" being used at all among Sonic fans. It's such rhetoric at this point that I'd be inclined to say that if you're using it in any serious capacity, you may be one.

No, I don't know what the implications are for me, having said that. It's too confusing at this point. Maybe I don't count as a fan anymore.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Guys who plan to laugh at oldschool people: You do realise that they can do everything the old games did but do it BADLY right? There's nothing wrong with either the old or the new ideas, what it comes down to is the execution, and whether the final product is fun or not.

I figured that execution would be common sense by many, but the main point we would be laughing at is how the old game ideas are viewed as the ONLY way to fix the series and that the failure of this game would prove the point that it is all in the execution.

Unfortunately, the elitists don't seem to get that point, and if this game fails it'll either open their eyes to that point or the elitists might get worse with their elitism. Those are some of the possibilities.

[Arrow]

What do you mean "what if"?

Even an optimist must have a hard time in the Sonic fandom.

[Legendary Emerald]

Guys who plan to laugh at oldschool people: You do realise that they can do everything the old games did but do it BADLY right? There's nothing wrong with either the old or the new ideas, what it comes down to is the execution, and whether the final product is fun or not.

I'd like the agree with this.

Also, as an addition, I also have to say that if SEGA somehow manages to make a terrible 2D game in this day in age, then they have no business making Sonic games period. Anyone with game maker can make a 2D Sonic game that is fun these days, so if Sonic Team can't... well, you get what I'm saying.

Here's the four possibilities I see for this game:

Best Case Scenario: A new Sonic 2-like game, featuring physics and level designs inspired by the original genesis games. Sonic 4 is too much to expect, since we already know Knuckles and Tails aren't playable.

Second Best Case Scenario: Sonic Rush 360. Meaning Sonic Team has completely forgotten what the genesis games were like, but they are at least giving us something we'll enjoy.

Mediocre Case Scenario: Sonic Rivals without the rivals (ala Rivals 2 freeplay). Hold right and run, but at least there would be multiple paths and some okay level ideas. Level layouts would be sparse, though, besides the enemies that you've need to jump and homing attack.

Absolute Worst Case Scenario: Sonic Unleashed 2D. Meaning not only has SEGA forgotten what the genesis games were about, but that they've also forgotten how to design an interesting level, or keep the player actively engaged. Hold boost, do some QTE's, and let the game play itself.

[Sega DogTagz]

Meh, even if its bad I'll still buy it. Then I just coast on that till 2011 and his Glorious return to the third dimension!

I seriously think that the game has a better shot at decent or good than terrible, its not exactly hard to pull this one off. If Needlemouse can serve its purpose and deliver an enthralling 2D experience, than it will have done its job for me.

[Stasis]

Absolute Worst Case Scenario: Sonic Unleashed 2D. Meaning not only has SEGA forgotten what the genesis games were about, but that they've also forgotten how to design an interesting level, or keep the player actively engaged. Hold boost, do some QTE's, and let the game play itself.

Surely they wouldn't go and make this in to a console game -

[Bubonic Bunny]

I just won't buy the game and start ignoring sonic again like I had been up until they announced needlemouse. Heroes was my last sonic game, I am hoping this game will change it but if it doesn't then my feeling won't be phased. Sonic is dead in my eyes, so if this doesn't revive him then I could careless.

[Aquaslash]

I'll simply add it to the long list of sucky "Sonic only" games, tell the supporters of such to STFU, and then await the next game that has an expanded cast.

Unless it has Super Sonic in the levels. Then I'm guaranteed to like it regardless XD

[BlazingTales]

Absolute Worst Case Scenario: Sonic Unleashed 2D. Meaning not only has SEGA forgotten what the genesis games were about, but that they've also forgotten how to design an interesting level, or keep the player actively engaged. Hold boost, do some QTE's, and let the game play itself.

I never understood the thought process that leads people to think Sonic Unleashed was a "Hold right to win" game. Trust me, I've tried it (and I'm not talking about the boost/QTEs).

Anyway, if it fails, then oh well. I'll probably still get some fun times out of it (except if it somehow turns out to be like Sonic Genesis... *shiver*), play it to death, and move back to the games I like.

Forum-wise, I think I might either:

A) Lay low for a while. Watch how pure classic fans react, and see what they blame the failure on. And watch the people who liked it defend the game from all the rants.

B ) Get ticked off slightly and join the discussion by either trashing or praising the game (most likely praise).

I'm just going to let you guys know now: I don't think this is the game classic fans have been begging for. And I think too many people are putting too much weight on this game, meaning it will ultimatly be a failure in their eyes, even if it is a HUGE improvement.Still, I for one am mega-excited about this game, and I don't care which direction it takes- modern or otherwise.

Edited January 21, 2010 by BlazingTales

[Dummy Bear]

I'll say, "What a shame." and move on to the next Sonic game. That's it- short and sweet.

Ditto.

[Legendary Emerald]

Surely they wouldn't go and make this in to a console game -

I've played that game on emulator. It's much more like a Sonic Rush game than a Sonic Unleashed 2 game, though, despite it missing the trick system. I was referring mainly to the 2D section in Unleashed, and the game's overall lack of difficulty, level design, and anything of interest besides graphics.

By the way, Unleashed for 360 and PS3 wasn't a hold right game. It was a hold boost game. You held boost, moved to the left and right a bit, stopped to attack some enemies once in a blue moon, and jumped a bit. End of level. Sonic Adventure had it right, in my opinion. Wide levels, with room for exploration, tons of platforming, and only certain parts where you were running flat out.

Anyways, now I'm getting off topic in my own topic.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Legendary Emerald

[Diogenes]

pigs_flying.jpg

Yeah, I know. But being in this fanbase has cultivated a surreal sort of optimistic cynicism.

Guys who plan to laugh at oldschool people: You do realise that they can do everything the old games did but do it BADLY right? There's nothing wrong with either the old or the new ideas, what it comes down to is the execution, and whether the final product is fun or not.

Yeah, and that's kind of the point. It's not that I want the classic formula itself to fail, but I want these people to realize it's not always successful, that it's not a guarantee of quality, that simply being "classic Sonic" doesn't make the game good. The series has many problems, and simply shouting "classic Sonic" will not fix them.

[Ebby]

Gee, this topic is a little negative. Oh well, if it sucks I'll live. I'll be waiting for the next Sonic game. Some are good, some are bad and the bad ones I can laugh at. I'm not quitting Sonic, my love for him goes beyond the games. But I must admit, I don't see how they can get THIS one wrong. 2D side scrolling Sonic! Easy! Right?

[Legendary Emerald]

I don't see what is wrong with going back to the classic style, if not necessarily the gameplay. It's just a matter of personal preference. I'm to the point in my life as a gamer that I'd rather see Sonic running on checkered hills than a realistic street. It's mostly nostalgia, but we've also got plenty of games that DON'T feature talking animals that can do realism much better. The people who prefer the style of the 3D games are usually the same people who want the Sonic games to be more serious and teenager oriented (not always, mind you), which is how I used to feel. But surprise surprise, I grew up.

Basically, a game with good gameplay is a game with good gameplay, period. But give the same game two different coats of color, and people are going to enjoy one version more than the other because of the overall experience. If you were given Needlemouse with the choice of choosing to play through the game with realistic graphics, or more cartoony (genesis inspired) graphics, which would you choose?

tl;dr: The classic games were iconic for their gameplay and style. Why won't the newer fans even give the classic style a chance in a new game?

Edited January 21, 2010 by Legendary Emerald

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Yeah, and that's kind of the point. It's not that I want the classic formula itself to fail, but I want these people to realize it's not always successful, that it's not a guarantee of quality, that simply being "classic Sonic" doesn't make the game good. The series has many problems, and simply shouting "classic Sonic" will not fix them.

In remembering that =SSMB= is not an imageboard, here's some text on that point:

Much as I too would enjoy the ability to point at a bad Needlemouse and dryly remark "STFU, nostalgiafags", it simply won't work because, like Freudian psychology, their crackpot theories about the glorious past are non-falsifiable.

I guarantee that if Needlemouse is bad, the retro faction will cite that the reason it's bad is because the game physics aren't coded with MegaDrive blast processing. Or the HUD is laid out slightly differently, which "breaks the aesthetic". Or there's one line of dialogue, which ruins it forever.

But the reason will never be that they were wrong and 2D isn't the only possible salvation.

LOL DOGMATISM

[Meow]

I wouldn't do anything because its just a videogame.

[gato]

Much as I too would enjoy the ability to point at a bad Needlemouse and dryly remark "STFU, nostalgiafags", it simply won't work because, like Freudian psychology, their crackpot theories about the glorious past are non-falsifiable.

I guarantee that if Needlemouse is bad, the retro faction will cite that the reason it's bad is because the game physics aren't coded with MegaDrive blast processing. Or the HUD is laid out slightly differently, which "breaks the aesthetic". Or there's one line of dialogue, which ruins it forever.

But the reason will never be that they were wrong and 2D isn't the only possible salvation.

I would like to agree with this, if needlemouse fails nobody would be able to tell that "classic sonic also fails" and laugh, because some fans will just argue that "this isn't like the genesis, this is sonic advance 4", and keep repeating that "Sega needs to make a game like the genesis games, instead of an advance 5"...