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Repairing Sonic for the new decade


a knothole resident
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I'll be blunt guys. Sonic is in crisis and now that this decade is nearly its end, its time for a serious evaluation. Im talking to you Sega/Sonic Team. Let me start off from my standpoint of the franchise.

SatAM ran for 2 seasons and proved that the Sonic franchise had potential to grow in a positive direction. When it was canceled, it was Sega's decision to continue using those characters in the comic book. Now, heres what irks me. If SatAM wasn't popular among American audiences, then why is the comic still in publication and focusing on the Freedom Fighters as their central characters? Simple. Cause it works! Sega has spent this entire decade trying to recton the Sonic story through each game with stupid gimmicks that detract from his iconic environment. Mobius. Surrealistic backgrounds. Badniks. A society of anthropomorphic creatures. Ever since Sonic was transported into modern Earth, roaming with humans, I can't help but think he feels uncomfortable since it's not his world. It's the typical fish out of water scenario that makes the games and stories feel out of place. The entire franchise within the last 10 years has been an unstructured, incoherent mess. Sonic Unleashed again was a great experience but I have my opinions on how this game really would capture that classic feel.

1. This is obvious. Eliminate the slow, lumbering werehog character and the stages. They were not fun and mostly felt like a chore. Remember, for a game that uses the name SONIC, it's supposed to be about speed. Not waving your stretching arms around in a God of War setting. Keep it consistent and don't complicate the game play.

2. Transplant the daytime stages into a Mobius scenery. As aesthetically beautiful the environments were, it felt stale cause we've seen it over and over again. How about something that exceeds reality like checkerboard terrain and origami flowers. I've mentioned this many times, but placing Sonic on modern day Earth is just boring and uncreative.

3. Bring back the classic badniks that were a staple in original games with a 3D upgrade. Mario and Zelda have been around longer than Sonic, but their modern games manage to please their fans cause they still use the original elements that made it great. Mario Galaxy is an excellent template for Sega to follow. The Mario series builds upon its previous games buy keeping the landscapes and enemies to maintain its recognition. However, Nintendo will gradually introduce new characters without cramming them down our throats. I can defiantly see Princess Sally, Bunnie, Rotor and Antonie appear in future Sonic games, but not all at once. Kinda like how the Mario series gradually introduced Wario, Wauiji, Daisy, and Rosalina. It would feel claustrophobic if all those Mario characters made their dubut in one game. That's a bit intimidating and that's exactly how I feel about Sega. Tails and Knuckles were a welcoming edition cause Sega at one time, didn't want rush their ideas. Well this portion went off tangents, but let's back on track.

What do you think of when someone mentions Mario? Goombas, Koopa Troopas, and Piranha Plants. What about Sonic? For me, it's been Buzzbots, Catakillers, and Crabmeats. Who has Sonic's inventory of villainy been these days? Generic looking robots. Just removing what made Sonic fun detaches me from the series since it doesn't resemble what it used to be. Bottom line, Id love to see the classic badniks and a well paced introduction to the freedom fighters in the games.

5. The music. The cheesy 80s hair metal has to go. It's just a reflection of how bad these recent games have gotten and it adds nothing to help the experience. Lets again go back to Mario. The signature theme has re-appeared in various mixes throughout Nintendo's library Mario games. Nintendo acknowledges that Mario 1's overworld theme will and forever be Mario's theme. Why? It gives the character identity. When a character's theme is constantly changed, we loose interest and have nothing to connect that character with. When was the last time we heard Green Hill Zone? or even the start up screen from Sonic 1? Yeah, I can't remember either. Wouldn't it be somewhat nostalgic and refreshing is Sega reused those classic themes, gave it an updated beat and implemented them in the games? I can easily imagine a remix of Chemical Plant Zone playing during the intense an exhilarating rollercoaster ride that is Eggmanland. Sonic Team was heading in the right direction to use an instrumental score instead of god awful lyrics written from a group that aspires to be Poison cover band. Enough with the horrible lyrics and atrociously bad singing. Bring back the techno/electronica soundtrack from the original games. Give Sonic his musical identity back.

5. Humans. They just don't belong in a Sonic game. That poor hedgehog and his furry pals probably feel self-conscience being the only ones of their kind roaming around on Earth. I had that same impression when I watched Sonic X. As Milo stated a couple months ago, humans are boring cause we see them in everyday life. How about a Sonic game that takes place on Mobius where Sonic doesn't feel alienated and can be surrounded by his kind? Watching SatAM and reading the Comics are more gripping cause it immerses into a world that doesn't exist; hence the sci-fi fantasy aspect of it. I would love to see 33rd century Mobius in the games. Its backgrounds, terrains, atmosphere, how its society functions.

6. Romances. Enough with the bestiality SEGA! We've seen it in Sonic 06, Secret Rings, and now Black Knight. The compatibility between an animal and a human doesn't exactly sit right and we cringe everytime a female human is all up in Sonic's grill. It's disgusting and vile. If these games keep using princesses, why not one that

Edited by a knothole resident
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Oh great, not another one.

Sonic has NEVER been on Mobius in the games. NEVER. Always on Earth, WITH HUMANS. Sonic fits into that world because IT'S HIS WORLD.

This has been said 50 times before, and still nobody gets it through their head that Sonic GAMES and the COMICS are two DIFFRENT things. Taking out humans would take out Eggman, and that would ruin the franchise.

So uh, as much as your stuff SOUNDS okay, it's still part of the comic world, and not the game world. The game world is called EARTH. Not MOBIUS. K? Good.

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1. This is obvious. Eliminate the slow, lumbering werehog character and the stages. They were not fun and mostly felt like a chore. Remember, for a game that uses the name SONIC, it’s supposed to be about speed. Not waving your stretching arms around in a God of War setting. Keep it consistent and don’t complicate the game play.

The Werehog stages in Unleashed were fairly enjoyable- it was the level design that needed a bit of an upgrade. However, it did feel a bit out-of-place.

2. Transplant the daytime stages into a Mobius scenery. As aesthetically beautiful the environments were, it felt stale cause we've seen it over and over again. How about something that exceeds reality like checkerboard terrain and origami flowers. I’ve mentioned this many times, but placing Sonic on modern day Earth is just boring and uncreative.

Maybe on a handheld game... But usually, on normal gaming consoles (360, PS3, Wii, etc.), people want graphics that they can "relate" to. For Sonic, it'd probably be a mixture of both cartoony and realistic. Of course, the majority of Wii gamers are children and families alltogether, so... Yeah.

3. Bring back the classic badniks that were a staple in original games with a 3D upgrade. Mario and Zelda have been around longer than Sonic, but their modern games manage to please their fans cause they still use the original elements that made it great. Mario Galaxy is an excellent template for Sega to follow. The Mario series builds upon its previous games buy keeping the landscapes and enemies to maintain its recognition. However, Nintendo will gradually introduce new characters without cramming them down our throats. I can defiantly see Princess Sally, Bunnie, Rotor and Antonie appear in future Sonic games, but not all at once. Kinda like how the Mario series gradually introduced Wario, Wauiji, Daisy, and Rosalina. It will feel claustrophobic if all those Mario characters made their dubut in one game. That’s a bit intimidating and that’s exactly how I feel about Sega. Tails and Knuckles were a welcoming edition cause Sega at one time, didn’t want rush their ideas. Well this portion went off tangents, but let’s back on track.

Sonic games still use the original elements- robots as enemies, platforming, and speed. But yes, they shouldn't introduce a bunch of new characters in only one game.

What do you think of when someone mentions Mario? Goombas, Koopa Troopas, and Piranha Plants. What about Sonic? For me, it’s been Buzzbots, Catakillers, and Crabmeats. Who has Sonic's inventory of villainy been these days? Generic looking robots. Just removing what made Sonic fun makes detaches me from the series since it doesn’t resemble what it used to be. Bottom line, Id love to see the classic badniks and a well paced introduction to the freedom fighters in the games.

Freedom Fighters? Maybe a game version, but the characters from the comics completely as the FF... no.

5. The music. The cheesy 80s hair metal has to go. It’s just a reflection of how bad these recent games have gotten and it adds nothing to help the experience. Lets again go back to Mario. The signature theme has re-appeared in various mixes throughout Nintendo's library games. Nintendo realizes that Mario 1's overworld theme will and forever be Mario's theme. Why? It gives the character identity. When a character's theme is constantly changed, we loose interest and have nothing to connect that character with. When was the last time we heard Green Hill Zone? or even the start up screen from Sonic 1? Yeah, I can’t remember either. Wouldn’t be somewhat nostalgic yet refreshing is Sega reused those classic themes from the games, gave it an updated beat and used them in the games? I can easily imagine a remix of Chemical Plant Zone playing during the intense an exhilarating rollercoaster ride that is Eggmanland. Sonic Team was heading in the right direction to use an instrumental score instead of god awful lyrics written from a group that aspires to be Poison cover band. Enough with the horrible lyrics and atrociously bad singing. Bring back the techno/electronica soundtrack from the original games. Give Sonic his musical identity back.

I wouldn't mind seeing more techno-related stuff like the older games. However, there should also be rock (Adventure-2006), and orchestral music (Unleashed).

5. Humans. They just don’t belong in a Sonic game. That poor hedgehog and his furry pals probably feel self-conscience being the only ones of their kind roaming around on Earth. I had that same impression when I watched Sonic X. As Milo stated a couple months ago, humans are boring cause we see them in everyday life. How about a Sonic game that takes place on Mobius where Sonic doesn’t feel alienated and can be surrounded by his kind? Watching SatAM and reading the Comics are more gripping cause it immerses into a world that doesn’t exist; hence the sci-fi fantasy aspect of it. I would love to see 33rd century Mobius in the games. Its backgrounds, terrains, atmosphere, how its society functions.

The humans aren't all that bad in the games. Nobody seemed really surprised when they saw Sonic and company.

6. Romances. Enough with the bestiality SEGA! We've seen it in Sonic 06, Secret Rings, and now Black Knight. The compatibility between an animal and a human doesn’t exactly sit right and we cringe everytime a female human is all up in Sonic's grill. It’s disgusting and vile. If these games keep using princesses, why not one that’s been around since the very beginning? You know who I’m taking about.

There isn't any animal-and-human love in Secret Rings and Black Knight- '06 would be the only one. There isn't even a HINTED love story in Black Knight between Merlina and Sonic, and although I haven't beaten Secret Rings, what I have played doesn't have any Shahra-on-Sonic action.

This leads to the ultimate question. If the comic book has been successful for nearly 2 decades, wouldn’t it be feasible to experiment with those characters and storylines? If Sega is still standing after creating hover boarding birds, werehogs and giving characters weapons (ie Shadow and Sonic) than I doubt using long established yet neglected material will destroy the company. The fact is that Sonic Team had 10 years to use original ideas and none of them work. There’s a new decade approaching and things need to change.

I don't think a game based off of the storylines of the comic would be all that great. However, I wouldn't mind to see a few characters or references from/to them.

Edited by Lukar
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Great. Just what we needed. A "How to fix Sonic for 2009" article, 20th edition. Now with more fluff.

Look pal, I don't know what you're tripping on, but it isn't that serious. Who cares what the media thinks. Sonic can still sell 2 million copies even with them slandering him for every turn he takes. And a lot of them are (finally) starting to give up on hoping he will return back to his crappy Sonic 1 gameplay made in 1991.

I'm a person up for new ideas, and even ones harking back to the past as a reminscent of what made them great. But if you want to take a trip back to the "good old days", I'm sorry there aren't any trains that'll take you there.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic
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The day the games resemble Satam, is the day I stop playing them.
I feel the same way. From my understanding, the changes made for SatAM were made because the creators of SatAM didn't like the games.

Sonic is not changing anytime soon. He still sells millions with the garbage games.
SatBK hasn't been very high in the charts, so maybe that's about to change. I hope so, but it might be a slow burner.
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Sonic is most certainly not in a crisis. Don't let those senseless Sonic-bashing articles from IGN convince you that he is. If a main Sonic game ever sells less than a million copies, then he will be in a crisis. And that has NEVER happened. Even Shadow and Sonic 06 were million sellers. Secret Rings and Unleashed both sold over 2 million.

I say, just make the next Sonic game similar to Unleashed with let's say, Shadow, Knuckles, and Tails as optional characters, much like Black Knight's setup. And give them their own dialogue in the levels. That would be my ideal Sonic game.

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5. Humans. They just don't belong in a Sonic game. That poor hedgehog and his furry pals probably feel self-conscience being the only ones of their kind roaming around on Earth. I had that same impression when I watched Sonic X. As Milo stated a couple months ago, humans are boring cause we see them in everyday life. How about a Sonic game that takes place on Mobius where Sonic doesn't feel alienated and can be surrounded by his kind? Watching SatAM and reading the Comics are more gripping cause it immerses into a world that doesn't exist; hence the sci-fi fantasy aspect of it. I would love to see 33rd century Mobius in the games. Its backgrounds, terrains, atmosphere, how its society functions.

dr_robotnik.gif

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

DOES THIS GUY LOOK LIKE A WALRUS TO YOU OR WHUAT!!!!!!???????

/sorry4capslocklol

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1. Speed. Yeah, maybe. But we have plenty of speed. I think we need more variety on that speed. I think it's not the speed that makes a Sonic game great, but what the speed can be used for. I don't mind the Werehog personally, but I agree more Sonic gameplay is good, even if it's Shadow, Knuckles, or Tails playing in a similar fashion. Stick to core gameplay.

2. I really don't mind the setting so much. Checkerboards are just for nostalgia purposes, and really only the green paradise or casino levels had them. It doesn't make a game good, not necessary. Sonic Heroes had checkerboards.

3. Badniks. Hell yes, I'm with you on the Badniks. Look at my Caterkiller. He's got flair. A flair gun doesn't have more flair.

4. This is a matter of preference, but I think the old style tunes were good for the series. I'm not really a fan of the rock stuff they put in all the games now. I liked the Adventures' and Unleashed's mix up. Heroes had good sound also. I like it when the games give a hint of style in the music, because there really is a style of Sonic music. Cheesy Rock isn't one of them, IMO.

5. Disagree strongly. Sonic is on Earth, and nothing except the Mobius of the 90s suggests he isn't. Fuzzy NPCs at this point would be confusing, because Sega introduced humans in numbers back in SA1. I do have a comment about human characters though. They should be either full characters or background characters. I'm not a fan at all of the President or G.U.N. Commander, because they don't do anything. But Eggman is obviously human, and being on Earth makes sense of that.

6. Princess Sally isn't canon to the games. She'd be a new entry to the series as far as I'm concerned and unwelcome. Sonic's already got a furry girl on his tail, and it's Amy. If you don't like her, I don't think she's going anywhere soon. Sonic's always been more of a person to me than an animal. Of course he's still a hedgehog, but he's an anthropomorphic character. He's human in shape and mind. Seeing him with a human girl isn't that upsetting to me, unless you start thinking about how they get it on, which you shouldn't consider because the game doesn't ever play off their relationship as something like that. Beastiality is out of the question.

And yeah, we do get a lot of these topics now.

Edited by Badnikz
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Princess Sally isn't canon to the games. She'd be a new entry to the series as far as I'm concerned and unwelcome. Sonic's already got a furry girl on his tail, and it's Amy. If you don't like her, I don't think she's going anywhere soon. Sonic's always been more of a person to me than an animal. Of course he's still a hedgehog, but he's an anthropomorphic character. He's human in shape and mind. Seeing him with a human girl isn't that upsetting to me, unless you start thinking about how they get it on, which you shouldn't consider because the game doesn't ever play off their relationship as something like that. Beastiality is out of the question.

I miss Sally, but I've come to see that Amy can be mature and entertaining in her own way.

And, yeah, the issue with beastiality is that you are copulating with a being less intelligent than yourself. I'm not much of an Elise fan, but I don't find the concept of an anthromophic animal and a literal primate human having romantic intimacy to be at all disgusting.

Edited by BlazeyBakeneko
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Anyone else prefer the fact that Sonic is set on Earth because it's cooler to see Sonic in OUR world than his own fantasy place?

I grew up with Mobius but I've accepted the fact he lives on Earth and always has with open arms.

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3. Badniks. Hell yes, I'm with you on the Badniks. Look at my Caterkiller. He's got flair. A flair gun doesn't have more flair.

Alright, i seem to struck a chord with people on this topic, so lets focus on Badniks. Where are they? The aforementioned robots are a staple of the series and shouldnt have been ignored all these years. I've always been curious to see how they would look in their 3D form. Im sure we all pondered that when Mario64 was announced. Goombas in 3D? WOW, now thats awesome. Well, why not Motobugs, Catakillers, Grounders, Buzzbots and so forth? Without their existance it doesnt feel like a Sonic game. Imagine if Mario Galaxy didnt have goombas, koopa troopas and such. It would feel out of place cause we grew attatched to those creatures encompassing the Mario franchise. Same should be with Sonic and badniks.

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Anyone else prefer the fact that Sonic is set on Earth because it's cooler to see Sonic in OUR world than his own fantasy place?

I grew up with Mobius but I've accepted the fact he lives on Earth and always has with open arms.

I wouldn't say I neccesarily prefer it, but I'd say the concept of a planet full of talking animals,and a planet where Sonic and his animal friends have this superhero-esque mystique compared to all the humans running around, each have their own unique appeal to me. Chocolate and vanilla, so to speak.^_^

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Sigh... I know it's not a big deal, but I get extremely pissed when I see topics like this.

Not only is it completely missing the point of why Sonic games are bad these days, the ideas would only serve to make things worse.

Look, humans have always existed in Sonic's world. Mobius isn't canon to the games. This has been said thousands of times for years and somehow it still hasn't sunk into the skulls of SatAM fans. THERE IS NO MOBIUS IN THE GAMES. There are also no Freedom Fighters, no Knothole Village and no society consisting entirely of animals. Eggman is human. Wendy Witchcart is human. And they are characters from the old games that idiots insist took place on Mobius.

Sonic lives on Earth with a population of humans mixed with anthropomorphic animals, not a post-apocalyptic world where all the humans are dead and Eggman is some kind of dark lord. Get over it.

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I'm willing to make a pact that Mobius is the name of the region where most of the early games held their environments in. Like how Hawaii is a state of America or something. It would work well for Mount Mobius in Sonic Spinball, and even that's not considered canon by many. I kind of wish my idea was the real deal, but alas, there is no Mobius, and in turn no possible hope for many people to shut up.

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Ah, another fix Sonic topic. Fixing Sonic for one group is only going to break him for someone else. Sonic games are still making Player's Choice/Platinum titles and nothing's really going to change until that does.

Sonic has NEVER been on Mobius in the games. NEVER. Always on Earth, WITH HUMANS. Sonic fits into that world because IT'S HIS WORLD.

WHERE OOOOOOOOOOOOONE IS AAAAAAAAAALL. Couldn't resist. :P

And about Mobius:

The classic games never actually referred to the planet as Mobius, (outside of the manuals at least, but Sonic CD's referred to Amy as "Princess Sally" so their canonical reliability is questionable) and the modern games (at least SA2 and Shadow) refer to the planet as Earth.

Edited by SuperStingray
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Alright, i seem to struck a chord with people on this topic, so lets focus on Badniks. Where are they?

Don't know, don't care.

I'll admit, it would be cool to see a revamped version of the Caterkiller in 3D, but I've grown rather fond of the new robots over time, despite them changing their design each game.

Although what needs to happen is for Eggman to stick with a more consistent design, instead of a new drone every game. I understand introducing new enemies in a new installment, but I'd like to see some more stick around in a long run.

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