Repairing Sonic for the new decade

[Miko]

After all the shit that man has pulled over the years, I don't trust a single thing I read on that board.

The site BobR (not Ken) linked to this from someone else, who compiled information you can find from the comic book itself.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Miko

[SchemingMinor]

I'll be blunt guys. Sonic is in crisis and now that this decade is nearly its end, its time for a serious evaluation. Im talking to you Sega/Sonic Team. Let me start off from my standpoint of the franchise.

SatAM ran for 2 seasons and proved that the Sonic franchise had potential to grow in a positive direction. When it was canceled, it was Sega's decision to continue using those characters in the comic book. Now, heres what irks me. If SatAM wasn't popular among American audiences, then why is the comic still in publication and focusing on the Freedom Fighters as their central characters? Simple. Cause it works! Sega has spent this entire decade trying to recton the Sonic story through each game with stupid gimmicks that detract from his iconic environment. Mobius. Surrealistic backgrounds. Badniks. A society of anthropomorphic creatures. Ever since Sonic was transported into modern Earth, roaming with humans, I can't help but think he feels uncomfortable since it's not his world. It's the typical fish out of water scenario that makes the games and stories feel out of place. The entire franchise within the last 10 years has been an unstructured, incoherent mess. Sonic Unleashed again was a great experience but I have my opinions on how this game really would capture that classic feel.

SatAM was also an albatross to many of us fans as well, like me. Not everybody likes SatAM; SatAM seemed like furry wank drama of animals vs. humans set in a dystopian future and tried to ignore everything that was in the games, as well. Let me put this to you straight; Sonic the Hedgehog is a different continuity than SatAM. If you want to cozy up to SatAM and wax obsessive over it, go to Ken Pender's board.

1. This is obvious. Eliminate the slow, lumbering werehog character and the stages. They were not fun and mostly felt like a chore. Remember, for a game that uses the name SONIC, it's supposed to be about speed. Not waving your stretching arms around in a God of War setting. Keep it consistent and don't complicate the game play.

It's funny that everybody equates pure speed with Sonic games.

Sonic was also not all about the speed; he was a tool for a competing platformer against Nintendo's gilded calf, Mario. Sonic was also a platformer. Expect *shock* full stops in order to do some jumping as well, and falling platform tricks.

2. Transplant the daytime stages into a Mobius scenery. As aesthetically beautiful the environments were, it felt stale cause we've seen it over and over again. How about something that exceeds reality like checkerboard terrain and origami flowers. I've mentioned this many times, but placing Sonic on modern day Earth is just boring and uncreative.

Sonic's world does not equate to Mobius. Mobius was created to give a name to Sonic's world back in the early 90's by other forms of media. Mobius is consistent in those forms of media. Again you get your continuities mixed up.

3. Bring back the classic badniks that were a staple in original games with a 3D upgrade. Mario and Zelda have been around longer than Sonic, but their modern games manage to please their fans cause they still use the original elements that made it great. Mario Galaxy is an excellent template for Sega to follow. The Mario series builds upon its previous games buy keeping the landscapes and enemies to maintain its recognition. However, Nintendo will gradually introduce new characters without cramming them down our throats.

Your argument was good until you got up to this point:

I can defiantly see Princess Sally, Bunnie, Rotor and Antonie appear in future Sonic games, but not all at once. Kinda like how the Mario series gradually introduced Wario, Wauiji

There's a Mario character named Wauiji?

Daisy, and Rosalina. It would feel claustrophobic if all those Mario characters made their dubut in one game. That's a bit intimidating and that's exactly how I feel about Sega. Tails and Knuckles were a welcoming edition cause Sega at one time, didn't want rush their ideas. Well this portion went off tangents, but let's back on track.

First off, never mix continuities unless you are planning to do some serious fanwank like Fanfiction. SatAM characters will NEVER , NEVER mix or blend in well with SegaSonic canon. Unless if Sonic Team decides to pull another stupid stunt, I doubt you will ever see anyone outside of the games from other forms of Sonic media being mixed in and taken as canon.

What do you think of when someone mentions Mario? Goombas, Koopa Troopas, and Piranha Plants. What about Sonic? For me, it's been Buzzbots, Catakillers, and Crabmeats. Who has Sonic's inventory of villainy been these days? Generic looking robots. Just removing what made Sonic fun detaches me from the series since it doesn't resemble what it used to be. Bottom line, Id love to see the classic badniks and a well paced introduction to the freedom fighters in the games.

Everything was good except for the Freedom Fighter bit. Sonic is not a Freedom Fighter. Nor will Tails call Sally his "aunt".

5. The music. The cheesy 80s hair metal has to go. It's just a reflection of how bad these recent games have gotten and it adds nothing to help the experience. Lets again go back to Mario. The signature theme has re-appeared in various mixes throughout Nintendo's library Mario games. Nintendo acknowledges that Mario 1's overworld theme will and forever be Mario's theme. Why? It gives the character identity. When a character's theme is constantly changed, we loose interest and have nothing to connect that character with. When was the last time we heard Green Hill Zone? or even the start up screen from Sonic 1? Yeah, I can't remember either. Wouldn't it be somewhat nostalgic and refreshing is Sega reused those classic themes, gave it an updated beat and implemented them in the games? I can easily imagine a remix of Chemical Plant Zone playing during the intense an exhilarating rollercoaster ride that is Eggmanland. Sonic Team was heading in the right direction to use an instrumental score instead of god awful lyrics written from a group that aspires to be Poison cover band. Enough with the horrible lyrics and atrociously bad singing. Bring back the techno/electronica soundtrack from the original games. Give Sonic his musical identity back.

"Techno/electronica" is still around and present in the games. Apparently all of Robotnik's bases don't have a soundtrack according to this argument.

5. Humans. They just don't belong in a Sonic game.

Poor Robotnik, destined to die alone and a virgin apparently with no man/woman at his side.

Also, according to this apparently you don't want to see Robotnik or Nega in a game. Better bring out that "Monster of teh Week" then....

That poor hedgehog and his furry pals probably feel self-conscience being the only ones of their kind roaming around on Earth. I had that same impression when I watched Sonic X. As Milo stated a couple months ago,

Everything made sense until....

humans are boring cause we see them in everyday life.

A knothole resident, meet Dr. Robotnik: personality pillar of SEGA. Apparently a knothole resident doesn't think you have enough interest to garner any characterization within the games.

ROBOTNIK: You....don't ...*sniff*... like...ME?

*runs off crying*

I hope you feel proud of yourself mister, making a grown man cry. SHAAAAAAAAAAME.

How about a Sonic game that takes place on Mobius where Sonic doesn't feel alienated and can be surrounded by his kind? Watching SatAM and reading the Comics are more gripping cause it immerses into a world that doesn't exist; hence the sci-fi fantasy aspect of it. I would love to see 33rd century Mobius in the games. Its backgrounds, terrains, atmosphere, how its society functions.

Again, this is not Mobius.

6. Romances. Enough with the bestiality SEGA! We've seen it in Sonic 06, Secret Rings, and now Black Knight. The compatibility between an animal and a human doesn't exactly sit right and we cringe everytime a female human is all up in Sonic's grill. It's disgusting and vile. If these games keep using princesses, why not one that�€™s been around since the very beginning? You know who I'm taking about.

For someone who has a longwinded speech, apparently you have a loose grasp on the meaning of most of these words, including the term "bestiality."

Let me pull the term of bestiality from the Webster's New World Dictionary:

bes⋅ti⋅al⋅i⋅ty

   /ˌbɛstʃiˈælɪti, ˌbis-/ Spelled Pronunciation [bes-chee-al-i-tee, bees-]

–noun, plural -ties.

1. brutish or beastly character or behavior; beastliness.

2. indulgence in beastlike appetites, instincts, impulses, etc.

3. an instance of bestial character or behavior.

4. sexual relations between a person and an animal.

Sexual. Not the "I got to kiss to bring him back to life" Snow White stigma the game implied. You need to get out more.

7. Make Robotnik the main villian again. Whatever happened to Sonic and Robotnink duking it out? Instead we get some ungodly beast from hell that takes up the entire screen. Talk about litterally overshadowing his character. While were at it, lets restore his dignity. Ditch that ridiculous Eggman name. It's not menacing, it's embaressing.

First off, as much as I hate the moniker "Eggman" I have to defend it. "Eggman" was his Japanese name and had to be changed when the character was brought to America due to fear of legal strife (probably from Apple Corps or the estate of John Lennon.) Because of this fear, someone at SoA chose to rename him "Ivo Robotnik" and the name stuck as a staple for all translated Sonic games until up to SA2 where Ivo Robotnik was accepted alongside Eggman as canon and official name of the character within the whole SegaSonic continuity. So his name is Ivo Robotnik, but his moniker is Eggman due to his shape; a teasing name Sonic gave him (and apparently the mental anguish didn't work against the mad doctor.)

This leads to the ultimate question. If the comic book has been successful for nearly 2 decades, wouldn't it be feasible to experiment with those characters and storylines? If Sega is still standing after creating hover boarding birds, werehogs and giving characters weapons (ie Shadow and Sonic) than I doubt using long established yet neglected material will destroy the company. The fact is that Sonic Team had 10 years to use original ideas and none of them work. There's a new decade approaching and things need to change.

This is odd. Here you tout that they should "experiment" with the storyline and the characters, but in the next paragraph you blast Shadow, the Werehog and the Babylon Rogues alongside their faults and distinguished gameplay.

You just contradicted yourself. A Hypocrite is You!

Are you sure you're not a troll?

[Miko]

Sonic's world does not equate to Mobius. Mobius was created to give a name to Sonic's world back in the early 90's by other forms of media. Mobius is consistent in those forms of media. Again you get your continuities mixed up.

If you subscriber to the view that the classic (Japanese) storyline games are direct canon from the newer games then while it's not Sonic's home planet, it is A planet Sonic's travelled to.

SatAM characters will NEVER , NEVER mix or blend in well with SegaSonic canon.

Can you provide basis for your opinion?

First off, never mix continuities unless you are planning to do some serious fanwank like Fanfiction.

Why does adding something that originally came from a seperate verse automatically equate to bad writing. Charmy and Amy, which came from other contiunities became game characters.

SatAM was also an albatross to many of us fans as well, like me. Not everybody likes SatAM; SatAM seemed like furry wank drama of animals vs. humans set in a dystopian future and tried to ignore everything that was in the games, as well.

While the execution was a off, the basic concept of Robotnik owning a plot of land and harming the enviornment and Sonic going to save him actually is based on info you can find for manuals Sonic one and two. Even the way both American and Japanese manuals alluded to animals turning to robots alludes to Roboticization.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Miko

[Toby]

Are you sure you're not a troll?

He's Kuta. This shit is standard for him.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Toby Barrett

[SuperStingray]

If you subscriber to the view that the classic (Japanese) storyline games are direct canon from the newer games then while it's not Sonic's home planet, it is A planet Sonic's travelled to.

The Japanese canon also says Eggman is Eggman's real name not his alias.

Can you provide basis for your opinion?

Because that would just steal the spotlight from Sonic. There are enough characters as it is and bringing in those guys will just screw things up.

Why does adding something that originally came from a seperate verse automatically equate to bad writing. Charmy and Amy, which came from other contiunities became game characters.

Um, no. Those guys were originally in the games.

While the execution was a off, the basic concept of Robotnik owning a plot of land and harming the environment and Sonic going to save him actually is based on info you can find for manuals Sonic one and two. Even the way both American and Japanese manuals alluded to animals turning to robots alludes to Roboticization.

The robotization was completely different. In the cartoon, it was a permanent transformation, whereas in the games it was simply using an animal as a power source and intelligence for the machine. And why would Sonic be saving Robotnik?

[Indigo Rush]

Neither were Blaze, Big, Omega, Shadow or Rouge before they made an appearance

Uhm.

You're saying those characters were in the comic books first.

Charmy and Amy, which came from other contiunities became game characters.

What?

Edited March 21, 2009 by Indigo Rush

[Miko]

You're saying those characters were in the comic books first.

No I'm saying that these characters weren't canon before they appeared in their games

What?

The Sonic manga printed in 1992 featured the original appearances of Amy and Charmy. They were not originally game characters.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Miko

[Indigo Rush]

The Sonic manga printed in 1992 featured the original appearances of Amy and Charmy. They were not originally game characters.

True, I forgot about that detail.

But that doesn't explain Big, Rouge and the slew of other characters you spewed out.

Scratch that, you explained yourself in that quick edit. Sly fox.

But that doesn't really prove a point anyway... Willy the Wombat isn't canon yet because he hasn't been introduced.

Edited March 21, 2009 by Indigo Rush

[Miko]

You're interpreting what I said incorrectly. Before Blaze etc were put into their respective games, and those games were officially published, they weren't canon to the series either. It's a bit of a joke but truth be told even if I ignored those characters the fact is, SEGA has incorporated Amy and Charmy and their origins were from comic books.

[Indigo Rush]

You're interpreting what I said incorrectly. Before Blaze etc were put into their respective games, and those games were officially published, they weren't canon to the series either. It's a bit of a joke but truth be told even if I ignored those characters the fact is, SEGA has incorporated Amy and Charmy and their origins were from comic books.

I see.

Be careful how you word things... that ends up confusing a lot of people.

Mainly me. D:

[Miko]

The Japanese canon also says Eggman is Eggman's real name not his alias.

While I'm all for discarding information as canon that'd create plotholes the Japanese storyline indicating Mobius as another world is not contradicting the Japanese material currently considered canon in order to need to be discarded.

Because that would just steal the spotlight from Sonic. There are enough characters as it is and bringing in those guys will just screw things up.

There are a lot of characters but you need to explain why they alone are sufficient as a supporting cast with Sonic. Honestly, this is not a comic book or a cartoon where you have constraints in time or space to give to the character in order for that to even BE a viable arguement. if there is crucial spotlight Sonic needs, he can have it. Why would bringing in even some minor Archie characters (note I said some as in a few--not all) ruin the entire franchise? I think that's being a tad dramatic.

Um, no. Those guys were originally in the games.

Read up on ur manga.

The robotization was completely different.

Again if you follow the game manuals of both the west and Japan it describes them being turned into robots, not being put in. Then there was Spinball which adapted the concept and was adapted into both the western and Japanese storyline.

In the cartoon, it was a permanent transformation, whereas in the games it was simply using an animal as a power source and intelligence for the machine. And why would Sonic be saving Robotnik?

Can you explain that last sentence?

[Ryan Brown]

And about Mobius:

The classic games never actually referred to the planet as Mobius, (outside of the manuals at least, but Sonic CD's referred to Amy as "Princess Sally" so their canonical reliability is questionable) and the modern games (at least SA2 and Shadow) refer to the planet as Earth.

This should clear that up:

(The name "Princess Sally" was given to Amy in the American version of Sonic CD as a half-assed way to initially promote the impending SatAM Sonic the Hedgehog TV series. The actual Princess Sally looks nothing like Amy and the name "Princess Sally" is NOT a nickname of Amy's, nor is even part of the Sonic Team continuity.)

Edited March 21, 2009 by Ryan the Game Master

[Miko]

I was not referring to CD. I was reffering to Spinball and the fact it was adapted into the classic SoJ storyline.

[Toby]

The site BobR (not Ken) linked to this from someone else, who compiled information you can find from the comic book itself.

Then you're going to have to explain to me how Archie is now publishing four different titles under Sonic's name now, as compared to how they couldn't even afford to publish Super Specials during the last several years of Penders and Bollar's time on the book.

[SuperStingray]

Can you explain that last sentence?

While the execution was a off, the basic concept of Robotnik owning a plot of land and harming the enviornment and Sonic going to save him actually is based on info you can find for manuals Sonic one and two.

[Miko]

Then you're going to have to explain to me how Archie is now publishing four different titles under Sonic's name now, as compared to how they couldn't even afford to publish Super Specials during the last several years of Penders and Bollar's time on the book.

Toby regardless of what Archie is doing with it's resources, it doesn't change the fact that the figures don't look good. They also published Sonic X during a period when Ken was still working on the book. Yes the guy who got fired after years of dismal sales.

Oh wow brain fart. I meant Sonic meant to stop him and save the furry animals XP

Edited March 21, 2009 by Miko

[Blazey Firekitty]

You know, I'm sort of surprised the fandom never seems to get Fleetway revival fans clamoring for the return of Poker Lewis or Johnny Lightfoot.

Then again, there's that online continuation, so maybe Sonic the Comic's fans are satisfied with that.

[123654]

You know, I'm sort of surprised the fandom never seems to get Fleetway revival fans clamoring for the return of Poker Lewis or Johnny Lightfoot.

Then again, there's that online continuation, so maybe Sonic the Comic's fans are satisfied with that.

But then we'd have two characters named Johnny. lol

[Blazey Firekitty]

But then we'd have two characters named Johnny. lol

Heh, forgot about the robo-pirate.

[Autobobby1]

Remember the last time SEGA listened to the fans? The fans wanted to get a third Sonic Adventure. So SEGA listened and made a game that is basically Sonic Adventure 3 with a different title. Do you remember that game? IT WAS SONIC '06.

SEGA's finally decided to stop listening to the fans and start fresh with Sonic Unleashed and to do this they disregarded every game except Sonic 1, 2, and CD. Guess what! It worked fantastically! Sonic's finally getting back on his feet and obviously Sonic Team's new crew has some awesome ideas. They only put in the Werehog to make Unleashed last longer, anyway. I think we should just trust their judgement.

[Miko]

Sonic Unleashed is not what I'd consdier Sonic doing fantastically >,<

I don't think inherently listening to fans is wrong as long as they can stop personalizing their ideas and think about what the general public wants in a game. Everytime I hear a "how to improve Sonic games" topic its always about "me me me" without really exploring why your idea would actually attract OTHER people.

[Autobobby1]

Sorry, I didn't mean that Sonic is perfect by any means. I just meant that Sonic Unleashed was a much better game than '06 or ShtH.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Sonic Unleashed is not what I'd consdier Sonic doing fantastically >,<

I don't think inherently listening to fans is wrong as long as they can stop personalizing their ideas and think about what the general public wants in a game. Everytime I hear a "how to improve Sonic games" topic its always about "me me me" without really exploring why your idea would actually attract OTHER people.

I'm going to be honest and admit I have no idea what the general public would want in a Sonic game.;;

[123654]

I'm going to be honest and admit I have no idea what the general public would want in a Sonic game.;;

The general public has no idea what they want in a Sonic game.

[batson]

Well, i can think of at least think of a couple of things that "the general public" do NOT want in a Sonic game:

1 A story

2 3D

3 Voice acting

4 Any characters other than Sonic, Eggman, Knuckles and Tails (and presumably some robots for them to beat)

5 Electric guitars

6 The name "Eggman"

Until Sega gets rid of all those things, people are gonna bitch about how Sonic sucks nowadays even if the gameplay is actually good.