GUMBA-er... GREEN EYES

[Iceman Etika]

Okay we all know the story, we all know the basis. First thing I want to touch. The models.

People are saying that Sonic Rush and Sonic 4 models are the same.

On the left is Rush, right is 4. I know the quality sucks, but I had to use what resources were availible. But even with the bad quality, it's obvious to see that they are not the same.

Rush is all blocky, and 4 is crisp and smooth.

So I do hope this ends any comparisons between the two games, as they are cut from a completely different cloth.

-Iceman

[Sean]

People were complaining that Sonic's movements were like those in Rush's.

And people were complaining that Sonic's model was the one from Unleashed.

Unless there really were people who were also complaining about something weird like this, how did you mix the two up.

[Iceman Etika]

People were claiming the two had the same movements, it definitely existed, and others even went as far as to say both the polygons were the same, which I though was complete ludicrous. Theres plenty saying that Sonic 4 is Sonic Rush 3 and crap.

-Iceman

[Brianzilla2004]

People were complaining that Sonic's movements were like those in Rush's.

And people were complaining that Sonic's model was the one from Unleashed.

Unless there really were people who were also complaining about something weird like this, how did you mix the two up.

I actually just read something in another topic saying it looked like the Sonic Rush model. Not sure which topic that was in, though.

[Iceman Etika]

I actually just read something in another topic saying it looked like the Sonic Rush model. Not sure which topic that was in, though.

Yes, there's no doubt that there was an entire crowd of people claiming this. It exists somewhere within that albatross of a Sonic 4 topic, it's like almost 300 pages now.

-Iceman

[Indigo Rush]

So we now have a circle-derp topic for the complaints? Great, we need to keep the whining fenced off from the rest of the subforum.

I'll come right out and say that I see nothing wrong with the models. I'm an aesthetic guy, and I think the current model design is just fine. Green eyes, long spines and everything.

[Cortez]

You can't blame people for drawing similarities to the Rush games, the animations are similar and the environment we were shown looks like a HD version of the first stage from Rush. Plus the homing attack was included, an incredibly non-classic element but again, something that made it's 2D debut in Rush.

We were promised a game akin to the classics but instead it's starting to look like Sonic Rush HD feat. Wing Tip Logo and Sonic 1 Special Stages.

While it's an incredibly trivial matter, giving Sonic a more classic design would have at the very least helped promote the idea that this was a classic styled game.

[speedfreak]

Let me just sum up all the stupid pointless complaints at once. You can hardly see Sonic's eyes in game, the homing attack will most likely never HAVE to be used ala Sonic Rush, and the main villain of the classic Sonic series was never referred to as Robotnik or Eggman in game and most likely won't be in Sonic 4 either.

The only thing to worry about now IMO is Sonic's crappy running animation, the level design, and the controls/physics. As far as I'm concerned they nailed the look of the game.

[Chooch]

You'd think with so many people diggin' the Gumball Brigade that they wouldn't mind green eyes.

Now I feel like going up to an ice cream truck all 'Fuck this! I want BLACK gumballs on my Sonic ice cream!'

Edited February 5, 2010 by Top Cat

[Brianzilla2004]

You can't blame people for drawing similarities to the Rush games, the animations are similar and the environment we were shown looks like a HD version of the first stage from Rush. Plus the homing attack was included, an incredibly non-classic element but again, something that made it's 2D debut in Rush.

We were promised a game akin to the classics but instead it's starting to look like Sonic Rush HD feat. Wing Tip Logo and Sonic 1 Special Stages.

While it's an incredibly trivial matter, giving Sonic a more classic design would have at the very least helped promote the idea that this was a classic styled game.

The Homing Attack was introduced to the 2D format in Sonic Advance 2.

[bolt7]

As far as I can tell from the sprite, they've actually made the black pupils inside his eyes bigger. He still has green eyes, but the black parts are a lot more noticeable in my opinion. I think it was Shadzter who said earlier they've taken parts of both the classic and modern Sonics designs and merged them together. Yeah, I think the result looks pretty good too.

The only thing to worry about now IMO is Sonic's crappy running animation, the level design, and the controls/physics. As far as I'm concerned they nailed the look of the game.

I second this, it's more of a worry for me right now too. We can't really judge the level design at all from the trailer, but the running animation did look a bit strange. It's a bit disappointing after showing three of the old sprites with his wheel legs, the new one runs in an entirely different fashion. "Just add smoke... that makes it look like he's running fast." =/

[Stasis]

It's obvious that these are not the same models. The 'Rush' model doesn't contain near the amount of detail to the Sonic 4 model. The Sonic 4 model is the Unleashed model, and due to the game not being 'super-speed-fest-hold-Boost-zoom!', Sonic is using the jog cycle that he does in the hub stages. Now, he more than likely has a 'top speed' animation that we've yet to see, but we know it's not the 'figure 8' as AAUK said he would suggest it to them when he gives feedback.

As for the green eyes debate, I admit I was disappointed to begin with, but now I've come to terms with it and will not let it ruin what will seem to be an enjoyable experience. However, if there was time, I would like to see a classic Sonic download. The Unleashed model would just need shorter legs, quills and black eyes. Voila! Both sets of fans are happy.

[Carbo]

The only logical explanation as to why the footage is being compared to Rush is because so far Sonic 4 is the only Pseudo 3D (not counting Sonic Rivals) Sonic game made, and obviously Rush is the first thing coming to mind.

Rush's flaw wasnt its looks. It was the poor level design and the fact that it was a spamfest of all the unnecessary skills which only worked cause of its straightforwardness. If Rush had removed all of that, adding proper level design akin to the Genesis classics along with more emphasis on pinball physics, no one would complain. Sonic 4 seems to be pretty much that, and I really enjoy it. I'd rather play Sonic 4 in fully developed high quality models instead of a 16-bit sequel that can be pretty much be churned out in a month by today's standards. Atleast this shows signs of effort and not taking a goddamn novelty to win over old-school fans, something I'm specifically annoyed at when it comes to Megaman 10.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Pirate Jet

[Brianzilla2004]

I'm confused... What's with this "Gumball Brigade" thing?

[Octarine]

The only logical explanation as to why the footage is being compared to Rush is because so far Sonic 4 is the only Pseudo 3D (not counting Sonic Rivals) Sonic game made, and obviously Rush is the first thing coming to mind.

Rush's flaw wasnt its looks. It was the poor level design and the fact that it was a spamfest of all the unnecessary skills which only worked cause of its straightforwardness. If Rush had removed all of that, adding proper level design akin to the Genesis classics along with more emphasis on pinball physics, no one would complain. Sonic 4 seems to be pretty much that, and I really enjoy it. I'd rather play Sonic 4 in fully developed high quality models instead of a 16-bit sequel that can be pretty much be churned out in a month by today's standards. Atleast this shows signs of effort and not taking a goddamn novelty to win over old-school fans, something I'm specifically annoyed at when it comes to Megaman 10.

I concur. Aesthetically, Sonic 4 looks like it does share some common ground with Rush as well as Unleashed (as far as Sonic himself goes), but I don't see this as a bad thing. Rush generally looked pretty good and Sonic's model in Unleashed was one of the best he's ever had. Gameplay comparisons with those two games are more of a concern to me, but nothing valid can really be said on that subject yet. Three seconds, guys.

I don't care about the wheel o' feet thing either. I like both styles of running animation, honestly, and as long as the final animation looks less jittery than it did in some parts of the trailer, I'll be happy.

[Pelly <3's U]

I'm confused... What's with this "Gumball Brigade" thing?

You don't wanna know D:

[Blue Blood]

You can't blame people for drawing similarities to the Rush games, the animations are similar and the environment we were shown looks like a HD version of the first stage from Rush. Plus the homing attack was included, an incredibly non-classic element but again, something that made it's 2D debut in Rush.

We were promised a game akin to the classics but instead it's starting to look like Sonic Rush HD feat. Wing Tip Logo and Sonic 1 Special Stages.

While it's an incredibly trivial matter, giving Sonic a more classic design would have at the very least helped promote the idea that this was a classic styled game.

Homing attack made its 2D debut in Advance 2. Then in Advance 3, Knuckles and Tails also had the homing attack as extensions of their gliding/flight abilities. And the first level in Rush looks nothing like the one shown in the trailer for STH4. They have bushes in the BG, but that's about it. I don't see how the hell this looks like Rush HD- we know there's no boost which is infact what the whole of Rush was built around.

And the models clearly aren't the same. Allow me to explain something.. AGAIN:

The Rush model is a low poly version of the SatSR/SatBK model. Likewise, the Brawl model is a low poly (but not as low poly) version of it too

The Unleashed model has been re-animated and seemingly tweaked a little for this game.

THIS GAME DOES NOT USE THE BRAWL/SATSR/RUSH/OLYMPIC GAMES/SONIC R MODEL.

Not raging at you or anyone else, Prof, just trying to get people to notice something.

A green-eyes don't bother me. I wanted and expected classic Sonic in this game- afterall, the initial trailer hinted it with the classic silhouette and hiding Sonics appearance. But seeing the model in action, against the wonderfully rendered level changed my mind. It's just the games logo that looks fugly.

[Gamerguy21]

I'm actually really glad that they're using his new design instead of his old one, since I like it more. This game seems to pretty much be using Unleashed's model, which was the best Sonic model to date IMO. Classic Sonic's not bad, but I simply like Modern Sonic more.

And the running animation did look pretty slow and clumsy during some parts of the trailer, but I blame that on poor trailer animating. The running animation during the actual gameplay actually looked fast and smooth. I still hope that's not his top speed animation though.

Edited February 5, 2010 by gamerguy21

[Indigo Rush]

You don't wanna know D:

Yes he does :D

Er, anyway... I may as well voice a complaint about what I've seen: Sonic's walking animation is pretty darn silly. Can't they fix that? It's going to be a few months until initial release... rigging a different animation shouldn't take that long.

[Guest]

Sonic's walking animation is pretty darn silly.

I thought it was to emulate the weird looking gait of the classics. *thisiwhereidpostagififihadone*

[Iceman Etika]

Yeah, the one thing everyone seems to agree on is the walking animation, it's absolutely stupid, and dull compared to the other games he's been in. Most likely not him at full speed though, I just hope that more info is released soon and not in a month or so.

-Iceman

[Carbo]

That walking animation looks pretty much exactly as Sonic's walking build-up in Brawl.

In any cases after having watched the trailer and clip in question a number of times I've stopped caring about it.

[Mort]

I'm confused... What's with this "Gumball Brigade" thing?

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/gumball-eyes

Moving on, complaining that Sonic has green eyes is about as petty as it gets.

[JezMM]

For the record - I kept it to myself before, but despite my 95% lack of involvement in the meme, it always annoyed me that the majority of the edits were done wrong. The gumball eyes don't go in opposite directions "crazy eyes" style. One goes inbetween the eye sockets and the other floats a little to the left of the eye sockets. It's been driving me crazy but most of the people who did these edits were major fans of the gumball eyes and they "were doin it rong" despite this. I didn't really want to offend any major fans either (also I was sad that no-one in the topic apparently saw Coraline to appreciate my contribution 8( b'aww). But now I have vented and feel happy.

As for the topic at hand, I do agree the animation is little queer. I don't really mind though. I think if it was TOO smooth it WOULD feel like playing a slow version of Rush. The old games had no inbetweening animations after all, and only 1-4 frames per animation.

Edited February 6, 2010 by JezMM

[Phos]

Okay we all know the story, we all know the basis. First thing I want to touch. The models.

People are saying that Sonic Rush and Sonic 4 models are the same.

On the left is Rush, right is 4. I know the quality sucks, but I had to use what resources were availible. But even with the bad quality, it's obvious to see that they are not the same.

Rush is all blocky, and 4 is crisp and smooth.

So I do hope this ends any comparisons between the two games, as they are cut from a completely different cloth.

-Iceman

I've heard from an individual who has rips of almost every official 3D Sonic model that the design hasn't changed since Heroes. The poly count is higher (Or lower, in Rush's case), but it's the same design.