Game Mechanics and Controls

[Agent York]

Something that really helped define the classic Sonic games were the controls of the characters. They handled rather well and were completely controllable by the player. Sonic advanced his moveset over time, start simply with moving with the D-Pad, jumping with several buttons, and down to roll while running. Sonic 2 introduced the Spin-Dash (down then spam jump to peel out in a ball forward, did wonders really) and Sonic 3 introduced several new things (press jump while jumping to do a split second-insta shield to defend yourself for half a second, shield abilities replace insta-shield, Knuckles can glide and climb, Tails can fly and swim) and all of it was laid out to the controller well and easy to execute.

Now opposed to lots of beliefs, I think that is a key to making Sonic 4 really work; Make everything easy to execute and they all have purpose. In Sonic Rush, some of the moves were very forgettable to the point many people don't even know you can do a homing attack in Sonic Rush, and plenty of the games other abilities, and this is partly due to the moves not serving much purpose. More-so they were not that simple to execute. Simplicity in controls is essential I believe to a good Sonic game. There can be some techniques you need to master but that doesn't mean it should be hard to pull them off. It shouldn't be some complex combo of buttons that escape your mind when your on the run. Controls should be easy to remember, but all require skill to use.

So far we know Sonic can Spin-Dash, and Homing Attack. Thanks to an observant member of this forum, it appears you might also be able to do a Sonic Adventure-styled roll, where you tap a button and Sonic does a brief dash (NOTE: NOT Sonic Rush styled spam dash, in fact if like Sonic adventure running into enemies while doing it actually hurts you, think of it like a quick speed jerk forward to gain some momentum, or to quickly dodge something, or something of the sort, not as good for speed as say a Spin Dash, but for a quick moment you need that extra boost of speed). If this is a true mechanic, then it will add a different way to play the game people would need to master.

How do you think based on the footage the controls and mechanics of the game work? Does Sonic look like he jumps, rolls, and controls alright? Think some of his moves he needs and ones we see how they work in the game? Is everything, from moves to gimmicks easy to understand or frustratingly confusing like the barrel in Sonic 3? Think it'll control more like the original Genesis games or Rush-styled? What do you think the button layout may be or what layout may work for the Wii, PS3, and 36t0 controllers? This also gives us time to spot gimmicks, moves, and how the game plays in gameplay and examine. What do you think of the way Sonic moves?

Edited February 5, 2010 by Dusk The Hedgehog Keeper

[Indigo Rush]

I'm hoping that they keep it simple. I wouldn't mind there being a wall-jump in this title, but you know, whatever works for SEGA. I'm sure they'll do a good job.

Again, Spinball Physics are essential, and they seem to be present. I'm a happy man.

[Brianzilla2004]

I'm HOPING that the game will handle just like the original Genesis series. As you said, it was how the game controlled and felt that made it so great. A perfect example would be looking at the other 2D Sonic games. The 8-bit series was... okay, but with Sonic 1-3, S&K and SCD, there's nothing keeping me glued to my Game Gear. The Sonic Advance series attempted to recreate the awesomeness of the Genesis games, but the characters all felt far too heavy, had poor acceleration, and in the sequels the increased top speeds made for some pretty horrendous levels. The Rush series made the characters less clunky, with Sonic's slowest speed relatively fast, but this made for some awful platforming (in the handful of instances where you were actually platforming). The Sonic Rivals series felt like a more managable Sonic Rush, thanks to decreased top speeds, and while I actually enjoyed these PSP titles quite a bit, it was the racing gimmick that saved them from being mediocre.

It isn't Sonic's eyes, whether it's "Robotnik" or "Eggman," or even the music that will make or break Sonic 4. If they recreate that perfect formula for awesomeness that was born back in 1991, then I think the fans will ultimately be pleased.

[Badnik Zero]

I dunno if you saw the response I made in the main topic about Adventure's spam dash, but I think it's too much like the boost. But if that's not what you mean, maybe I'm lost. What do you mean by Adventure's dash? I'm cool with whatever they do as long as the moves they choose make the levels more interactive.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Cupcake Hedgehog

[Diogenes]

Thanks to an observant member of this forum, it appears you might also be able to do a Sonic Adventure-styled roll, where you tap a button and Sonic does a brief dash

Where exactly are we getting this from? I see nothing in the trailer to suggest it...

Does Sonic look like he jumps, rolls, and controls alright?

At this point there's no way to tell. We barely see him doing anything, and only for a few seconds

If the moves we know are the only ones he has (which I think is very likely), everything could be on one button (ooh, you oldschool fans' heart rates just jumped a bit when I said that, didn't they?). Dpad/stick to walk, Button to jump, Down to crouch/roll, Up to uncurl (maybe; to me it looks like the corkscrew is making him uncurl), Down and Button to spindash, Button in the air to homing attack.

[DaBatGuy]

There's nothing proving that Sonic can spindash while in motion like in SA1/2, Shth. The trailer only shows Sonic transitioning directly from a rolling to a running animation as he enters a corkscrew which could be for two reasons, either the player switched to running as they hit the corkscrew or corkscrews automatically put Sonic in a running animation.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Dat Kool Bat Guy

[EXshad]

Personally, I want a control scheme almost mirroring that of an updated Sonic CD, in terms of having the peel out, and how that game's particular spin-dash move worked. Also, naturally, I want momentum to be the center-piece of the gameplay, as it was with the Genesis classics. I also like the sound of the homing attack, and I think it might be cool to get the stomp and the light speed dash as well. But that's kinda where I draw the line, 'cause I really don't want a crazy moveset taking away from the nostalgic feeling and the momentum-based gameplay.

Edited February 5, 2010 by EXshad

[Guest]

Personally, I want a control scheme almost mirroring that of an updated Sonic CD

It's a sequal to Sonic 3, not Sonic CD. It'd be pointless to use that version of the spindash.

Why does everyone like that game so much anyway? Just asking, because I think it feels too floaty.

[EXshad]

It's a sequal to Sonic 3, not Sonic CD. It'd be pointless to use that version of the spindash.

Why does everyone like that game so much anyway? Just asking, because I think it feels too floaty.

Why? It worked the best, simply because you couldn't abuse it.

And it's because of it's more platform-based take on the franchise, at least in my opinion. Granted, I liked Sonic 2 better than it....

[Guest]

Why? It worked the best, simply because you couldn't abuse it.

That's entirely opinion, I personally hate Sonic CD and how people always group it with the classics, no one gives a shit about Chaotix. CD felt too floaty, and the time travel gimmick was frustrating and not very fun.

[EXshad]

That's entirely opinion, I personally hate Sonic CD and how people always group it with the classics, no one gives a shit about Chaotix. CD felt too floaty, and the time travel gimmick was frustrating and not very fun.

Okay then, that too is your opinion, and you're entitled to it. I'm also entitled to mine, though in this case, you seem like you're in a very small minority when you say "it doesn't deserved to be placed next to the classics".

Edited February 5, 2010 by EXshad

[Diogenes]

I'll put myself in that minority...

Even if you like CD, I can't see why you'd ever want to use its spindash. It may not be abusable, but it also isn't fun.

[EXshad]

I'll put myself in that minority...

Even if you like CD, I can't see why you'd ever want to use its spindash. It may not be abusable, but it also isn't fun.

Eh, to each their own, I guess. I don't really care either way, it just seemed to work the best to me. But I can see why people hate it, though I guess I'm taking sorta a conservative approach on what my ideal control scheme would be. Hell, I thought I'd get more backlash on wanting the stomp in the game, or something!lol

Edited February 5, 2010 by EXshad

[Badnik Zero]

Yeah, I love Chaotix. But I also love CD and it's the better game. Agreed that it's the most platforming heavy Sonic, along with Sonic 1. But the spin dash there is way behind the main series dash. The dash in CD is almost like a beta-dash. They wanted to use the idea, but for some reason it didn't come out like Sonic 2's.

[DarkOverord]

I presume it'll work ala the old games

There's only one worry I have. The Wii.

SEGA have admitted that the Wii version will contain motion controls. Now unlike Mario, this isn't the type of game where you can get away with a flick of the wrist while playing like Mario. Mario just span in place, but Mario is a slower platformer. What would Sonic do tha would need motion controls to activate? My only worry is it's the spin dash...

Edited February 6, 2010 by DarkOverord

[EXshad]

I presume it'll work ala the old games

There's only one worry I have. The Wii.

SEGA have admitted that the Wii version will contain motion controls. Now unlike Mario, this isn't the type of game where you can get away with a flick of the wrist while playing like Mario. Mario just span in place, but Mario is a slower platformer. What would Sonic do tha would need motion controls to activate? My only worry is it's the spin dash...

That could be....personall my bet is it could be for the homing attack. That, or it's only used in areas that could have....ugh.....quick time events....

Edited February 6, 2010 by EXshad

[DarkOverord]

That could be....personall my bet is it could be for the homing attack. That, or it's only used in areas that could have....ugh.....quick time events....

I SEVERELY doubt this'll have Quick Time Events. Homing Attack seems, silly, That's just jump jump, though saying that, as is a spin dash. I wouldn't mind the homing attack mind. Unless it was a chain of enemies. Maybe if it added the somersault...

[Rusty Spy]

Called me paranoid, but I found Sonic's speed once he exits the corkscrew in the trailer to be a bit strange. He sort of gets a jolt of speed while going up the hill. And considering how in pretty much every game that had corkscrews, Sonic's speed would increase like normal while running through them, in this instance, it's a fixed speed, followed by a jolt of speed.

Either that may of course be his top speed under normal circumstances, it may not have been completely polished yet, or, again, I may just be paranoid.

Judging by the rest though, it looks pretty good.

[redmenace]

I think we only need jump and spindash. AND the spindash needs to stay as it's classic counterpart, aka not exploitable. The height needs to be capped AND Sonic needs to stop to charge it up. That thing broke the game in Adventure and was superfulous in Adventure 2 besides two or three cases. Didn't use it in 06 at all.

The Spinsplash attack (or whatever it was called) may or not return. A bit on the fence on this one. I mean it made the game a lot easier, but so did the homing attack and I'm not that much happy with that one either. I hope the homing attack doesn't cheap anything. The spinsplash, homing attack could be power ups from shields for example. But I don't know how much people will scream re-hash over that. So I don't know if it would be a good idea.

Momentum gameplay, risk-reward gameplay, all of these need to be there. They've promised then and to be very honest, it's the only thing I want to see the most. I'm also quite a fan of Sonic 1's bumpy ground for outdoors. I hope they use it but I doubt it. 2-K barely used it after all.

I like wall jump. Makes a good exploring capability and branches good options I think. And to cap a way from wall jump one only needs to add a ledge (Knuckles' paths were full of these).

The boost could be for Super Sonic. That bastard is over powered already, one more break game technique won't hurt at all. I'm sure the fans of boost would like too and it fits the abilities of super.

Edited February 6, 2010 by redmenace

[Solly]

As I've proposed elsewhere, I think they need to strive to make the Homing Attack a balanced move. There should be incentive to use the regular jump or roll methods. Why not have it so that it can't be used when enemies aren't around, and its range is fairly short. To add to that, you're bounced directly upward after killing the enemy. That way, it gets the job done but it kills your lateral momentum, so it's a lot slower than killing them the old-fashioned way. Also, I think there are enemies it simply shouldn't work against.

Then we could have a move that isn't spam-friendly or brainless but in itself not entirely useless either.

[redmenace]

As I've proposed elsewhere, I think they need to strive to make the Homing Attack a balanced move. There should be incentive to use the regular jump or roll methods. Why not have it so that it can't be used when enemies aren't around, and its range is fairly short. To add to that, you're bounced directly upward after killing the enemy. That way, it gets the job done but it kills your lateral momentum, so it's a lot slower than killing them the old-fashioned way. Also, I think there are enemies it simply shouldn't work against.

Then we could have a move that isn't spam-friendly or brainless but in itself not entirely useless either.

Was it possible to perform the homing attack more than once in one go, back in 3D? Making it done just once every jump would also help discouraging it. Or make enemies have spikes in where he tagrets.

Edited February 6, 2010 by redmenace