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Sonic 4: Is Anyone Remotely Disappointed?


Greg the Fancat

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The trailer only shows a few seconds of gameplay, but that's enough tell several things: This game's camera moves like the one in Sonic Rush

Well what the hell do you want it to go at, 12 fps? It also goes alot faster and smoother than Rush.

this game's graphics work the same way as those in Sonic Rush (2D levels with 3D models. Also, fewer layers of parallax than the Genesis games had)

Is there anything wrong with 3D on a 2D plane? The parallax is identical to the Sonic 1 parallax.

, it includes level tiles (Convex quarter pipes) primarily associated with Sonic Rush, and it includes many of the same throwbacks as Rush (Emerald Hill corkscrew in a Green Hill style level)

Level tiles originated in the original Sonic 1 but I guess it has to be Sonic Rush because everything else needs to be compared to it.

includes most of the same moves (Sonic Rush had the spin dash and homing attack)

I can argue against that by saying that it's the complete moveset from Sonic 3 only adding one attack and even that would be more accurate than comparing it to Sonic Rush's moveset. Plus, Sonic Megamix more than proved that Homing Attack in a Genesis styled game actually works rather well.

. Is it really such a stretch to assume that this game is going to play like some kind of slowed down Sonic Rush?

Yes.

I've said it a shitload of times before, the only reason this game looks REMOTELY like Sonic Rush is because being the only 3D on a 2D plane game since such, its obvious that if another one comes it will immediately be compared to it. If we replaced all of that with a classic 16-bit skin no one would notice or shit all over their faces for one thing in this game.

Edited by Pirate Jet
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This is a sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but it's still a new game. It's not a remake of a game from 15 years ago. This is exactly what I was expecting, I didn't want them to bring back 16 bit graphics, I wanted them to bring back the gameplay and classic Sonic vibe from the classic games. Which so far they look like they have done. Checkered hills and that sort of thing is what I want, I don't want it to look like it was made in the 1990s.

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I have precious little to suggest otherwise, and that precious little amounts some random allusion to momentum from the Blognik.

You have precious little to suggest ANYTHING.

All your claims boil down to: "It kinda looks like this if you look at it this way."

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I have precious little to suggest otherwise, and that precious little amounts some random allusion to momentum from the Blognik.

You also have precious little to suggest so. What you quoted about the camera, textures and whatever, don't mean jack shit. And if you think they do, I really think you need to get out more. All of you.

Is it really such a stretch to assume that this game is going to play like some kind of slowed down Sonic Rush?

Assume. Assume. Assume. Assume. Why are you assuming?

What's more, we already have reason to believe that Iizuka is directing this game.

He directed some shit, but lest we forget he direct NiGHTS Into Dreams in 1997 and was a key developer in Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

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Wow. I'm more excited about the fan made stuff than what's currently been shown in the actual game. The remade Sonic 4 logo and the title screen remix are just what I was expecting from Sonic 4. Seriously, these DO NOT change the game play experience in any way, and the game will more than likely be an intense speed based platformer with fun level gimmicks. However, these minor details are what make or break a game. Right now, the level style looks perfect, the badniks look amazing, but more than the music sample, it's the Sonic model that doesn't do it for me.

I have to agree somewhat here. The new Sonic model's been subject of debate and difference for quite some time now. I mean, this is the thing we'll be seeing every single stage, and also supposedly the thing that we're supposed to feel "retro" while playing with. I don't think this is enough to break the game entirely yet, I just think it's kind of inappropriate and a rather weird choice.

I think the outcry this game is getting from the fans is just absolutely amazing. You dissect 3 seconds of footage, which include Sonic spinning into a winding path and running, and somehow this gives you clear insight that the game is a slowed down Sonic Rush. No, wait, it's a charmless carbon copy of the old games. No, wait, it's something else that's equally disappointing. As long as it's not good, the entirely faith-based assumption is considered solid. After all, this game couldn't possibly be any good because Sonic has green eyes, wobbly spikes, the levels use prerendered tiles, and the game isn't composed of 16-bit graphics.

Take a chill pill, some of the arguments actually do make sense.

I believe the dissection of 3 seconds of footage cointains way more than just 3 seconds of information. People are talking about what they fear might happen, not about what will happen.

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Aside from the bellyaching nitpicks among certain fans my only real disappointment is the fact that we waited nearly half a year just to get a teaser and it's still another 6 months until it's released. I kinda wish they planned the reveals closer to the release day however this way they can see our opinions on the teaser and still have 5 months or so to address them.

Edited by Dat Kool Bat Guy
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Take a chill pill, some of the arguments actually do make sense.

Take a "chill pill?" I'm not the one angrily declaring this to be the next Sonic Rush. It's amazing the kinds of stupid, contradictory things people say sometimes. "I don't see why you're so upset. I think this looks pretty cool." "Whoa, calm down, buddy!" Stupid.

I believe the dissection of 3 seconds of footage cointains way more than just 3 seconds of information. People are talking about what they fear might happen, not about what will happen.

There is a BIG difference between "3 seconds of information" and "I know that the game plays like Rush, the screen scrolls like Rush, the game has WAAAY too many speed gimmicks and SEGA has LIED to us!" There are some valid points being brought up. While we haven't seen much of this new stage, it does appear to be pretty much an updated GHZ. Maybe there's some unique elements sprinkled in, but I think it's reasonable to think that this could be a very bland environment.

The thing that worries me the most, but that seems to not even PHASE the people complaining the most, is the inclusion of the Homing Attack. But not many people are talking about the possibility of bottomless pits with a line of Badniks to zip across a la Sonic Adventure-Present, because they're too caught up on Sonic's eyes, and modifying the logo and model to look more like the oldschool Sonic. "This is what we could've had! Waaa!" All I can do is shake my head in disbelief.

It's not like this is MY ideal Sonic 4, either. I don't want anything to do with the Homing Attack. But I don't know enough about the game to form a fair idea of how the game will be, and I think it's great that Sonic Team is finally trying to deliver a game that we've all been dreaming of for over a decade-and-a-half.

I'm sorry if I sound condescending, but I find it hard not to look down at this aggressively pessimistic view. You're acting like a bunch of children. *breaks monitor and collects a Fire Shield*

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I'm not particularly disappointed. I was actually quite happy of what I seen. The teaser was nothing special. It just showed a vague idea of what's to be, and it looked pretty good to me. Yeah, sure the running animation looked a little weird, but I had the thought that they were early in the game development even before Ruby had to clear things up. The only thing I'm worried about is that it's a rehash. But, other than that, I'm pretty much excited.

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Either you worded that horribly wrong or that is one hell of a hypocritical comment.

I meant that it's the small details like the eyes that will change peoples opinions on whether they purchase the game or not, not that the details stop the game from being great. At least, I think that's what I was trying to say. I apologize for any confusion.

Something that I think will save this game in a classic fans eyes is having playable Super Sonic in levels. That's something most fans have wanted for a very long time, and if this game really wants to classic style gameplay, then this should be a must.

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The only thing I'm really dissapointed in so far is the fanbase. Mainly Modern vs Classic Sonic debate: the one the I hate is how some people are acting like Modern Sonic is an objectively bad thing and that SEGA lied to the fanbase for including him. Honestly, there are plenty of people who prefer Modern Sonic over Classic Sonic and saying crap like "SEGA, why have you done this to us?!?! Fix it NAO!!1!!1" is flat out ignorant. Prefering Classic Sonic is fine, but dissmissing other people's opinions just because you like a differnt design is, yet again, ignorant.

And besides, there's not even THAT big of a difference between them. It baffles me how some people can say that the entire game is ruined for using a design they don't like.

As for this whole gameplay thing: people really need to wait for more gameplay before saying the entire game will suck because of 3 seconds of gameplay of Sonic running through a corkscrew.

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I'm with Dat Kool Bat Guy. I'm just disappointed that all we got was another brief teaser after all this time. Ruby said that February would be a great month, so I hope there's still more to look forward to before March.

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30 seconds of gameplay would do me for a while to be honest.

One thing I don't like is being used as an example by people who assume everyone who is an old-skool Sonic fan wants to see the game in 16-bit or with the "classic" model with black eyes. Fuck that, I'm excited to have a game in HD and the Unleashed style Sonic is the best the blue hedgehog has ever looked and I've been a fan since 1991.

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Well what the hell do you want it to go at, 12 fps? It also goes alot faster and smoother than Rush.

Is there anything wrong with 3D on a 2D plane? The parallax is identical to the Sonic 1 parallax.

Level tiles originated in the original Sonic 1 but I guess it has to be Sonic Rush because everything else needs to be compared to it.

Sonic 1 didn't have convex quarter pipes. It had concave quarter pipes, but no convex quarter pipes.

I can argue against that by saying that it's the complete moveset from Sonic 3 only adding one attack and even that would be more accurate than comparing it to Sonic Rush's moveset. Plus, Sonic Megamix more than proved that Homing Attack in a Genesis styled game actually works rather well.

Sonic Megamix isn't at all like the classics. Tweaker intended it to be different from them, he told me so over Skype a bit after this trailer was revealed.

I've said it a shitload of times before, the only reason this game looks REMOTELY like Sonic Rush is because being the only 3D on a 2D plane game since such, its obvious that if another one comes it will immediately be compared to it. If we replaced all of that with a classic 16-bit skin no one would notice or shit all over their faces for one thing in this game.

I thought it looked like Sonic Rush even before I realized the levels were pre-rendered. If my deduction was based on something so superficial, I would more likely have thought it looked like Sonic Rivals, which was a fully real time 2.5D game.

He directed some shit, but lest we forget he direct NiGHTS Into Dreams in 1997 and was a key developer in Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

Naoto Oshima directed NiGHTS into Dreams... . Iizuka directed the terrible sequel. And no, don't blame that game's terribleness on Sega not giving him enough time to work on it, cutting him short actually made the game better than it would have been otherwise. The cut content consisted of more insipid cut scenes and more stupid missions. As for Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Hirokazu Yasuhara did most of the important design work.

You also have precious little to suggest so. What you quoted about the camera, textures and whatever, don't mean jack shit. And if you think they do, I really think you need to get out more. All of you.

Assume. Assume. Assume. Assume. Why are you assuming?

You have precious little to suggest ANYTHING.

All your claims boil down to: "It kinda looks like this if you look at it this way."

A hypothesis (from Greek ὑπόθεσις; plural hypotheses) is a proposed explanation for an observable phenomenon.
It is possible that this game will have levels designed similar to the classics, BUT this seems very unlikely. I'd love to be wrong, but it seems very unlikely. Edited by Phos
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I guess I kinda do have to change my mind. While I'm in no way bashing the game, or claiming that it'll some how hamper my enjoyment in the long run, I sorta wish Eggman looked like his classic self. More or less for consistency's sake, rather than personal preference.

Also, while this is extremely minor, and as a whole I'm happy that Sonic looks the same that he has in the past few games (for once), I wish they simply fixed his giant floppy quills...just look at this pic:

sonic4pixelhacklb.jpg

It's the EXACT same model, all that was edited were the quills to look a bit more Genesis-like. This would have been perfect in my mind, and I bet there wouldn't be quite as many complaints if it looked like this.

But hey, what can ya do? I'm still pleased and excited for this title, and stuff like this couldn't possibly change that simply because of how diminutive it is.

Edited by EXshad
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While I don't think it's going to hurt my enjoyment of the game in any way, I'd like to see his spikes modified a bit myself. As I've said before, I think his Sonic Adventure design would suit this game perfectly. His spikes were significantly longer than in the original games, but they had a nice amount of curve to them, and they didn't wave around like they do these days. I've never understood the whole flopping thing. It's one thing for his spikes to move around when he's zipping around at violent speeds, but when he's just standing there, they shouldn't move so freely. These are supposed to be weapons, after all. That's the whole reason he was a hedgehog, was it not?

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While I don't think it's going to hurt my enjoyment of the game in any way, I'd like to see his spikes modified a bit myself. As I've said before, I think his Sonic Adventure design would suit this game perfectly. His spikes were significantly longer than in the original games, but they had a nice amount of curve to them, and they didn't wave around like they do these days. I've never understood the whole flopping thing. It's one thing for his spikes to move around when he's zipping around at violent speeds, but when he's just standing there, they shouldn't move so freely. These are supposed to be weapons, after all. That's the whole reason he was a hedgehog, was it not?

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While I don't think it's going to hurt my enjoyment of the game in any way, I'd like to see his spikes modified a bit myself. As I've said before, I think his Sonic Adventure design would suit this game perfectly. His spikes were significantly longer than in the original games, but they had a nice amount of curve to them, and they didn't wave around like they do these days. I've never understood the whole flopping thing. It's one thing for his spikes to move around when he's zipping around at violent speeds, but when he's just standing there, they shouldn't move so freely. These are supposed to be weapons, after all. That's the whole reason he was a hedgehog, was it not?

I always figured that the floppy spines on modern Sonic were an adaption of a real hedgehog's ability to raise and relax its spines. When he gets surprised or performs a spin attack they seem to be in a sharper "erect" state *insert head full of Pingas joke here*. It can also explain some of Sonic's abilities, soft spines for bounce attacks and hard spines for spin dashes/homing attacks.

I'd actually like to see more humor based around this. I've always wanted a scene where Eggman's machine throws him backwards against wall only for him to get stuck in the wall for a moment because of his spines.

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Sonic's Brawl design is basically his 2006 design with a lower poly count. I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at here.

I always figured that the floppy spines on modern Sonic were an adaption of a real hedgehog's ability to raise and relax its spines. When he gets surprised or performs a spin attack they seem to be in a sharper "erect" state *insert head full of Pingas joke here*. It can also explain some of Sonic's abilities, soft spines for bounce attacks and hard spines for spin dashes/homing attacks.

I'd actually like to see more humor based around this. I've always wanted a scene where Eggman's machine throws him backwards against wall only for him to get stuck in the wall for a moment because of his spines.

That's exactly how I've always felt his spines should be treated, but there's a difference between Sonic's quills shifting around and them straight up swaying around. A perfect example of Sonic's spikes done right is directly after the opening boss in Sonic Adventure. Sonic sees Tails plummeting into a crash, and Sonic's spikes tense up when the dull thud sounds in the distance. Then, it happens again in Icecap, when Sonic spins around and sees the avalanche heading his way. "Whoa!" It was great. But this isn't how Sonic's spikes have been handled for the past several years. They just kinda bounce around, often for no apparent reason. It never seems to have anything to do with Sonic getting excited, or Sonic's current mood, or anything like that. It's a shame, since I think that by appropriately altering the positioning of Sonic's ears and quills, Sonic Team could effectively highlight how Sonic feels without even opening his mouth, which could work well both comically and dramatically.

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I actually expected worse from the fanbase. Granted I haven't even seen Retro, and what I've seen from SFGHQ seems to be pretty universally one of disappointment. You guys always have been some of the more "cool" Sonic fans, and easier to get along with... which was basically why I came here during Unleashed. The admins have been doing a good job keeping it "cool", even the ones I don't usually agree with.

So I've always been disappointed with the sonic fanbase as a whole, but I'm actually quite impressed with SSMB and the fact that being a fan of sonic seems to be more important than being a defender of classic sonic around here.

As for the teaser trailer, it gave me enough to speculate until we start getting new material. I haven't any clue what the gameplay will be like, I'm not some arcane wizard that can predict the success of the game like the Phos and the folks are Retro. I see definite attention and homages to the classic games, whether in the trailer or the PR.

I like to look at this from a marketing perspective because I'm tired of the black and white of being on the receiving end.... and from a marketing perspective, Sonic Team really has their work cut out for them. They've done a good job though beating into our brains that this is a Sonic solo adventure, showing us their love for classic sonic badniks and letting us show them our love, and then showing Sonic 4 as an evolution from the old ones with its own GHZ homage. Time will tell whether trying to market it to us is a wasted effort.

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Sonic Megamix isn't at all like the classics. Tweaker intended it to be different from them, he told me so over Skype a bit after this trailer was revealed.

My point still remains. It's more "Sonic 3 with one extra move" instead of "Sonic Rush with less moves".

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Sonic has the homing attack, the peel out, the light dash, and the light attack. He Also doesn't have the insta shield. He has more moves in Megamix than he does in Rush.

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I actually expected worse from the fanbase. Granted I haven't even seen Retro, and what I've seen from SFGHQ seems to be pretty universally one of disappointment. You guys always have been some of the more "cool" Sonic fans, and easier to get along with... which was basically why I came here during Unleashed. The admins have been doing a good job keeping it "cool", even the ones I don't usually agree with.

So I've always been disappointed with the sonic fanbase as a whole, but I'm actually quite impressed with SSMB and the fact that being a fan of sonic seems to be more important than being a defender of classic sonic around here.

You have to take into consideration that Retro and SFGHQ consist mostly of older dudes. Also, Retro studies every classic game up and down (and is called "Sonic Retro") and most people of SFGHQ live to re-create the Genesis games to a "T" in their own creations. It's more than likely going to be universal disappointment. The idea of "Sonic 4" has been spinning around on those forum members' heads for a decade now and it isn't what they envisioned. SSMB, while a better mix, is mostly a younger crowd who grew up with the Sonic Adventure-era onwards.

That said, I still expected an explosion here, but it wasn't as bad as I thought (Unleashed review fight was the worst thing I've ever seen and that experience is helping staff do a better job this time around). I got my thoughts on the front page and called it a day. It's nothing to lose sleep over (though I was probably pissed because I lost sleep over waiting until 2 am for the trailer, haha).

It's more "Sonic 3 with one extra move" instead of "Sonic Rush with less moves".

Except that Megamix is a Sonic 1 hack.

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Except that Megamix is a Sonic 1 hack.

I fail to see how that has any significance with that sentence of mine in question which was about the Sonic 3 moveset when the only thing I compared it with Megamix a few posts back was that Homing Attack works rather well if done correctly in 2D.

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That said, I still expected an explosion here, but it wasn't as bad as I thought (Unleashed review fight was the worst thing I've ever seen and that experience is helping staff do a better job this time around). I got my thoughts on the front page and called it a day. It's nothing to lose sleep over (though I was probably pissed because I lost sleep over waiting until 2 am for the trailer, haha).

I've seen worse, but that's definitely a drama-fest I wouldn't like to relive. I follow IGN semi-regularly and only once have I truly been turned off by one of their reviews and it was definitely not Sonic Unleashed.

... and most people of SFGHQ live to re-create the Genesis games to a "T" in their own creations. The idea of "Sonic 4" has been spinning around on those forum members' heads for a decade now and it isn't what they envisioned.

Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that the name is cursed and every fangame that dared to take that name has died. Honestly though, SFGHQ is the reason why I don't care so much whether or not Sonic Team can deliver precisely what I want, because thanks to some talented Sonic fans I can still get my genesis-era fix.

I'd be in over my head if I ever tried to approach Retro though. Goodness knows I'd never be able to follow along with their in-depth studies of the multitude of betas that have been lying around. I ought to check out Senntient, the X-treme fanbase always seemed like a rather peculiar subset of the Sonic community, not that it doesn't crossover with SFGHQ and Retro in some ways.

I fail to see how that has any significance with that sentence of mine in question which was about the Sonic 3 moveset when the only thing I compared it with Megamix a few posts back was that Homing Attack works rather well if done correctly in 2D.

I loved Megamix, especially the updates to the first two zones... and I loved the use of the different character abilities to have a representative feel to cover each base. However, it was awfully loose and unless Sonic 4 really DOES play like Sonic Rush, it might get in the way. I would point out Sonic's abilities become far less helpful in the more intricate platforming/momentum puzzles later in the game than the speedster design in the earlier levels.

I will admit though, Megamix was the first thing that popped into my head when I saw that Sonic was getting the homing attack.

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