Doctor Who

[Doctor MK]

A few bits of guesswork on those questions:

Hidden Content

Ah, excellent thinking. It's been so long since The End of Time that I sort of forgot there were two factions of Time Lords trying to escape the Time War. Considering the last time Rassilon saw The Doctor - and assuming he's still the President in Hell Bent - there's definitely going to be some bad blood there, which would explain for him wanting to seek some revenge and use The Doctor as a pawn rather than treat him like a hero.

Your theory about the Confession Dial is pretty nice too - it's been nowhere as prominent as some of the other series arcs, and until Face the Raven hadn't been seen since The Doctor tucked it away in his pocket in The Witch's Familiar... but as you say, maybe that's the point. It's still always been there, secretly acting as a conduit between The Doctor and Gallifrey the whole time, but we're meant to have forgotten about it until suddenly it all clicks into place in the finale. Which certainly justifies Ashildr's involvement, and puts a very different spin on this line from The Girl Who Died when The Doctor chooses to go against the rules of time and save her:

“I'm the Doctor and I save people! And if anyone happens to be listening that has any kind of a problem with that... to hell with you!”

If the Time Lords had been hearing that all along... gulp. First Ashildr comes back to bite Clara on the arse (I can't believe they actually got that word into the Heaven Sent script!), and now she's coming back to haunt The Doctor too. He really, really should have left her for dead... it's definitely made me look back at her introductory episode in a whole new light, anyway!

Speaking of which, some people are speculating that there's a bit of misdirection going on with the Hybrid cliffhanger, and that instead of "the Hybrid is me" The Doctor actually said "the Hybrid is Me", i.e. Ashildr's new persona. I hope that's not the case, because a Mire/Human Hybrid is nowhere near as exciting a prospect for the big bad of the series - but if it is The Doctor, just how literally or metaphorically the concept of it is remains to be seen... let's hope they're not trying to resurrect the "half human" aspect from the 1996 TV movie and make it canon in a whole new way. Either way though, The Doctor is ready to rage. The Time Lords have effectively killed Clara, put him through billions of years of hell (even if in his current state he's only lived the puzzle castle once), and now he's in for a cold reception when he finally returns to Gallifrey... but surely after making all that effort to save them in The Day of the Doctor, he's not just going to flip his lid and want to massacre them all? So much for a welcome home party...!

[ZERO_ninja]

Well, it's certainly looking like it's going to be a jam-packed climax to the series. Here's an official gallery of screens from Hell Bent - view them at your peril!

There's a hell of a lot to answer in the final 65 minutes of Series 9, too...

 

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"My main one at the moment is - why are the Time Lords seemingly against The Doctor?"

Because the Time Lords are and always have been a bag of dicks. Given how this series was going and the tech in Face the Raven looking like Time Lord tech I expected them. And of course expecting the Time Lords means I expected them to pull some bullshit and come after the Doctor, it's just the Time Lord thing to do.

Also by "saving them from eternal destruction", you mean he saved them from the destruction he himself nearly rained down on them and his solution was to banish them. Not to mention everything else that will have happened between the Doctor and the Time Lords during the course of the war. =P

 

"If Gallifrey is so "lost""

Gallifrey has been back in the sky since Time of the Doctor, we suspected it was back then, and Missy outright confirmed it was in s8 (assuming she wasn't lying), she just wasn't telling the Doctor where it was, and given Time and Space is really big he had no idea.

 

"but if it is The Doctor"

Honestly the idea of the Doctor being the hybrid was something I predicted before and personally thought it was the most boring and anti-climactic direction they could possibly go with that plotline. Not to mention I usually don't have a problem with how overdone nuWho is about how unrelentingly brilliant the Doctor is, but I'd have a problem with that. But I'm glad it seems to be Me, sets up a clever misdirection for the viewer (especially when the being half human bollocks is something people remember), and probably in the show for the Time Lords too.

 

Also, this episode was incredible, even if the next episode bombs, this series has been amazing, strongest series the show has had alongside s1 and s5.

[Salamander]

Oh, a couple of other points.  First, if I can revisit my theory above with an alternative...

Regarding the location of Gallifrey, the state of the Time Lords, and the Master's escape.

Here's another possibility: They're not trapped.  They were never trapped.  They were hiding, from the Hybrid, and who's the only one who seems to know anything about the Hybrid?  The Doctor.  Hence the confession trial, designed to extort the information out of him by any means possible.  In this version of events, the Master doesn't need a complicated escape story, he just grabs the nearest TARDIS and flies off, in defiance of a total no-fly zone otherwise imposed.  Although it's not impossible to speculate that the ambiguous "regeneration" seen in the trailer is that of Simm into Gomez...

Also, I've seen the following question about Heaven Sent asked enough to deserve an answer, that being, to put it as vaguely as possible, why that wall didn't reset.

There's general agreement that "outside elements" do not reset.  The Doctor's skull doesn't reset, it just keeps on piling up over and over.  His clothes don't reset; he always has to leave a set for the next iteration.  His inscription of "BIRD" in the sand... well, I get the vibe that the sand is meant to be his own dusty ashes in some way, so that's one thing, but it's also arguable that the Doctor never left the room, because his skull was still there until his next iteration saw the word "BIRD."  The diamond wall didn't reset because it was kind of the back door of the castle, not truly a part of it but something between it and Gallifrey.

...There is one problem with this explanation, which is why the Doctor's blood gets wiped at the end, but I'd just handwave it as a unique property of the blood of a dying Time Lord and be done with it.  The Doctor was withering away, so it's not unreasonable that his blood might as well.  (Yes, it's blatantly a mistake, but we can still handwave it.)

[Kevin]

Mother of god....that was an incredible episode! Both Moffat and Capaldi really knocked it out of the park here! Even if the finale so shows falls flat, I will say that this series has been one of the strongest Docto Who series by far!

[Celestia]

That episode was amazing. I think it's the most I've enjoyed a Moffat-penned episode in a long time. I wasn't sure what to expect when going into it, but I was genuinely blown away by how well it worked.

Hopefully the next episode is, at the very least, just as good. I'm really interested in seeing where this goes and it'd kinda suck if part two (or three, I guess?), well...sucked.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Celestia

[Salamander]

By the way, apparently the Christmas special's title is going to be revealed at midnight tonight (or rather, the embargo on it ends at midnight tonight), and reports have it that it'll ruffle some feathers.

[Doctor MK]

By the way, apparently the Christmas special's title is going to be revealed at midnight tonight (or rather, the embargo on it ends at midnight tonight), and reports have it that it'll ruffle some feathers.

Oh, you're not wrong there!

On 25th December 2015, prepare to meet... The Husbands of River Song!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VND4xDOxWIA/VliNmKh5j8I/AAAAAAAAr8o/CL6y0znbJNU/s1600/Xmas-2015-final-skew.jpg

So we've got The Doctor and River facing a recolour of the robots from Dinosaurs on a Spaceship. On the plus side: new sonic screwdriver! On the downside: that title is just... questionable beyond belief?!

[Speederino]

Hey fun fact: Peter Jackson's gonna direct an episode. And instead of announcing it in a boring press release...

[Salamander]

Oh, you're not wrong there!

On 25th December 2015, prepare to meet... The Husbands of River Song!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VND4xDOxWIA/VliNmKh5j8I/AAAAAAAAr8o/CL6y0znbJNU/s1600/Xmas-2015-final-skew.jpg

So we've got The Doctor and River facing a recolour of the robots from Dinosaurs on a Spaceship. On the plus side: new sonic screwdriver! On the downside: that title is just... questionable beyond belief?!

The title actually wasn't as bad as I was expecting; maybe I was prepared by having seen the cringeworthy stuff they were coming up with on DigitalSpy.  "Christmas with Mr. and Mrs. Who."  "I Saw Mommy Kissing Axos Claws."  "The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe 2."

Incidentally, since I've seen some speculation to the contrary, I assume that the husbands are:

The various Doctors.

Regarding the Peter Jackson clip (because multiquote once again isn't working for me and won't display the second quote): Well, strictly speaking, it's still not clear if they're serious or not... but regardless of whether it constitutes a true teaser, that's certainly an amusing clip.

Edited December 1, 2015 by FFWF

[Doctor MK]

The title actually wasn't as bad as I was expecting; maybe I was prepared by having seen the cringeworthy stuff they were coming up with on DigitalSpy.  "Christmas with Mr. and Mrs. Who."  "I Saw Mommy Kissing Axos Claws."  "The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe 2."

Admittedly the initial shock of it has worn off a bit now, but I think it's more that I'm just tired of Steven Moffat's [Insert Noun Here] of the [Insert Name Here] titles in recent years. It was a clever play on words for The Name of the Doctor, and it made sense for The Day (and subsequently The Night) of the Doctor, but the novelty of it began to wear a little thin by The Time of the Doctor - a title which, to this day, still doesn't make a whole load of sense to me (I mean, I understand it, I just think there's much better possibilities out there). But at the end of the day, I could forgive them all because it was the 50th anniversary and they all sort of tied together. Here, especially for what has been billed as a very rompy episode, it just seems... unfittingly dramatic?

Secondly - and perhaps stupidly - having ...of River Song in the title just brings back horrible memories of The Wedding of River Song, which was by far the weakest series finale in New Who, so it psychologically sounding like a semi-sequel to that holds me back from getting particularly excited.

I dunno. I'm sure it'll be a daft, fun episode, I just was expecting something a bit more... not even festive, just less prominently "hey guys look River Song is back and look at how potentially naughty she's been!". I'm not the biggest River Song fan - she's fine in small doses, don't get me wrong, but to keep placing so much importance on her just doesn't sit right with me considering how messy her backstory and Series 6 as a whole was. But if Moffat can provide a suitably playful reason for why The Husbands of River Song is a good title, then by all means, I'm happy to be proven wrong!

EDIT: In other news, here's an introduction video to the Series 9 finale, Hell Bent...

Pretty obvious, but good to have it confirmed: the Time Lords were behind Clara's demise.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Doctor MK

[ZERO_ninja]

Well in regards to the spoiler DoctorMK, I'm not sure Moffat means it in way of they intentionally set out to do it. Just they are directly responsible for the situation that caused it and so it's essentially on their hands. But we'll see come Saturday I guess.

 

On a more flippant note:

horrible memories of The Wedding of River Song, which was by far the weakest series finale in New Who

I dunno about that, most of RTD's finales say hi. =P

Personally, I did honestly think most of RTD's finales are among the worst episodes Who has ever had.

Edited December 2, 2015 by ZERO_ninja

[Doctor MK]

Well in regards to the spoiler DoctorMK, I'm not sure Moffat means it in way of they intentionally set out to do it. Just they are directly responsible for the situation that caused it and so it's essentially on their hands. But we'll see come Saturday I guess.

Oh yeah I know it wasn't intentional - nobody was meant to die in the events of Face the Raven, it was all just a ploy to lure The Doctor into the trap. But as you say, the fact that they played with fire and somebody got burned as a result... inadvertent or not, they're still the ones to blame.

 

On a more flippant note:

I dunno about that, most of RTD's finales say hi. =P

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Ooh, controversial!  while I agree that not all of the finales have been stellar, in the RTD era they at least always had a sense of scale and suitable pay-off that had been building throughout the preceding episodes. Series 6 was just such a shambles of a season that placed way, way too much emphasis on River Song and the ultimate resolution to The Doctor's "death" was the most underwhelming thing I think I have ever witnessed. Heck, the sole exception in Series 6's run of mediocrity was The Doctor's Wife - ironically one of the stories that had the absolute least to do with the ongoing story arc. So yeah, I think I just blame a lot of my apathy towards River on Series 6, because I was perfectly fine with her in Series 4 and 5. She's a great supporting character, but as soon as she becomes the focal point of the narrative... ehh, not so much.

EDIT: Just seen that Doctor Who has arrived in LittleBigPlanet 3 now, too! If LEGO Dimensions wasn't enough for your Who gaming fix this year, why not check out these DLC costumes?

http://digitalspyuk.cdnds.net/15/49/980x490/landscape-1449020168-23216182312-63eb183553-h.jpg

Costume Pack 1 is out now. Costume Pack 2 is 8th December, Pack 3 is 15th December, Pack 4 is 22nd December.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Doctor MK

[Salamander]

I actually quite liked the resolution to the Doctor's death in Series 6.  I was hoping for something more timey-wimey myself rather than it just being a trick, but it earned my respect owing to Moffat actually pulling off a genuinely clever piece of misdirection; everyone spent the mid-series break talking about the Doctor simulacrum that just got destroyed, and nobody remembered the shape-changing robot that showed up after the break because it never transformed into the Doctor...

I do agree, however, that one can definitely have too much River Song, though, and in that regard I'm also surprised by how the Christmas special's title doesn't make even the remotest nod to the festive period.  As given at present, the plot sounds really weird for what Moffat has admitted could have been his send-off episode.  (Rumour has it that the BBC had talked to at least two other potential replacements for Moffat as showrunner, but both of them declined the opportunity, which is why Moffat's doing Series 10 and why it's almost certainly going to be delayed due to his work on Sherlock.)

[ZERO_ninja]

Ooh, controversial!  while I agree that not all of the finales have been stellar, in the RTD era they at least always had a sense of scale and suitable pay-off that had been building throughout the preceding episodes.

I can't really say I agree for most of them. RTD's idea of an arc story is just shoehorn 1 word into every episode then say that it was building to the ending. With Bad Wolf it was a cool gimmick and made sense, but it was the exact same idea with less reason for Torchwood, and s2 in general is for me easily the most awful series of nuWho, with only 2 worthwhile stories in the whole thing (Girl in the Fireplace, Impossible Planet/Satan Pit). S3 was better in the overall but arc plot was just name drop Saxon all the time, and the finale was even worse than s2, with goblin Doctor turned into a god because the Earth love him. S4 was just mention keep mentioning bees. Then not a series finale as such, but End of Time is my most disliked Who story ever, falling below Underworld and Timelash.

While I get people hate the s6 finale, I'm not sure I'd say it lacked scale when you had all of time bleeding into 1 point and so many visual references to remind you of that.

Heck, the sole exception in Series 6's run of mediocrity was The Doctor's Wife - ironically one of the stories that had the absolute least to do with the ongoing story arc. So yeah, I think I just blame a lot of my apathy towards River on Series 6, because I was perfectly fine with her in Series 4 and 5. She's a great supporting character, but as soon as she becomes the focal point of the narrative... ehh, not so much.

I get that the arc story for s6 soured people a bit to the opening with Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon in retrospect, but do you really feel like that wasn't an amazing story on its own? Personally I'm not that sour on s6 in general though, Between the opener, Doctor's Wife, Girl Who Waited and God Complex I feel it's easily above s2, and probably beats out s3 for me too.

I actually quite liked the resolution to the Doctor's death in Series 6.  I was hoping for something more timey-wimey myself rather than it just being a trick, but it earned my respect owing to Moffat actually pulling off a genuinely clever piece of misdirection; everyone spent the mid-series break talking about the Doctor simulacrum that just got destroyed, and nobody remembered the shape-changing robot that showed up after the break because it never transformed into the Doctor...

I have a similar feeling to the finale personally. Though I take on board the criticism people have that it's kinda bullshit first time we see the robot it in no way has any convincing natural movements piloted by a whole crew, then the Doctor solo pilots one that manages to capture every mannerism he has perfectly. You can say the Doctor gave it an upgrade ahead of the episode, but it still is a little cheap.

Edited December 2, 2015 by ZERO_ninja

[Celestia]

I'm honestly not that big on Series 6's opening. I mean, it wasn't bad as a whole, but the resolution to the Silents was kind of...weird, and that's putting it nicely. I mean, I know the Doctor's made questionable or outright terrible decisions over the years, but turning everyone who sees the moon landing footage and then sees a Silent into a murderer* over...what exactly did the Silents do, again? Disintegrate a few people and I guess be scary in general? Not exactly unusual for Who monsters, and usually the Doctor doesn't resort to that sort of overkill for the average villain(s). And usually he's a lot more reluctant about it whenever he does dole out some sort of horrible punishment.

*How does that work, anyway? Are people constantly stumbling over the bodies of Silents they've killed or something? Does their ability to make you forget them once you look away work after death? I honestly can't remember if this was covered in the episode, in a proceeding episode, or somewhere else, but I swear I remember this really bugging me back when Day of the Moon first aired.

I do really like God Complex, though. (And The Doctor's Wife, but that's hardly an unpopular opinion.)

(Rumour has it that the BBC had talked to at least two other potential replacements for Moffat as showrunner, but both of them declined the opportunity, which is why Moffat's doing Series 10 and why it's almost certainly going to be delayed due to his work on Sherlock.)

I remember hearing about this before, but it still really surprises me. I mean, it's Doctor Who, I can't even imagine turning down that opportunity. In all fairness, I guess it would be a lot of pressure considering the franchise's history and popularity, but still.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Celestia

[ZERO_ninja]

I'm honestly not that big on Series 6's opening. I mean, it wasn't bad as a whole, but the resolution to the Silents was kind of...weird, and that's putting it nicely. I mean, I know the Doctor's made questionable or outright terrible decisions over the years, but turning everyone who sees the moon landing footage and then sees a Silent into a murderer* over...what exactly did the Silents do, again? Disintegrate a few people and I guess be scary in general? Not exactly unusual for Who monsters, and usually the Doctor doesn't resort to that sort of overkill for the average villain(s). And usually he's a lot more reluctant about it whenever he does dole out some sort of horrible punishment.

For me that showed how dark the Doctor can be when backed into a corner, he did it because it was the solution he had to hand. He didn't really consider what he was doing to people and just considered it'd make the Silent leave, and really not considering what he's doing to people for his end game is very Doctorly to me, it's not really worse than some of things he did as 7 or 10 in my mind.  He is a very dangerous person in general, even if he mostly tries to save people.

[Salamander]

I feel that there was a lot that was pretty interesting about the Silence and that there's an extent to which their potential hasn't been fully utilised.  The idea of them building their own amateur TARDISes and dubbing themselves "the sentinels of history" suggests to me that they were trying to fill in the gap left by the Time Lords, and that's more interesting to me than the handwave dismissal Moffat gives in The Time Of The Doctor where they're just genetically-modified priests.

I remember hearing about this before, but it still really surprises me. I mean, it's Doctor Who, I can't even imagine turning down that opportunity. In all fairness, I guess it would be a lot of pressure considering the franchise's history and popularity, but still.

I didn't go into detail, because this is strictly speaking major rumour territory that nobody can confirm nor ever will, but: The talk is that one of the two was too busy with their own projects to take on Doctor Who, but the other didn't want to deal with the enormous quantity of negativity and bile that comes out of the more reactionary part of DW fandom (as in, having to get the police involved because of death threats and the like).  Again, might well be completely untrue, but Moffat himself has openly spoken of this year's Christmas special as having been potentially his final episode, so it seems pretty clear to me that they were searching for a new showrunner and couldn't get one in time.

[ZERO_ninja]

I didn't go into detail, because this is strictly speaking major rumour territory that nobody can confirm nor ever will, but: The talk is that one of the two was too busy with their own projects to take on Doctor Who, but the other didn't want to deal with the enormous quantity of negativity and bile that comes out of the more reactionary part of DW fandom (as in, having to get the police involved because of death threats and the like).  Again, might well be completely untrue, but Moffat himself has openly spoken of this year's Christmas special as having been potentially his final episode, so it seems pretty clear to me that they were searching for a new showrunner and couldn't get one in time.

I've never heard that from a reliable source, and I always take hearsay without a credible interview with a pinch of salt, just because so much of it really isn't true. Though he has definitely admitted they're looking for a new showrunner but he's staying on for now because it's a bit of a problem and he doesn't want to leave the show in the lurch.

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-11-27/steven-moffat-on-jenna-colemans-replacement-it-gives-us-a-chance-to-relaunch-doctor-who---weve-got-a-really-cool-idea-how-to-do-that

 

"That's an issue I'm actively engaged in," says Moffat. "Everything is difficult in Doctor Who, including leaving. I'd never leave it in the lurch because it means too much to me. Let's not pretend it's not a big problem. But there will be a solution."

Purely personal speculation, but I do believe Moffat wants Harness for showrunner, which would line up with the idea of being busy with another show,  Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell. Personally I'd love to see Phil Ford get it, but if he was really on the table for consideration I feel they'd be giving him more episodes.

Edited December 2, 2015 by ZERO_ninja

[Salamander]

I've never heard that from a reliable source, and I always take hearsay without a credible interview with a pinch of salt, just because so much of it really isn't true.

How's this?  I spent a while searching around because I thought I'd read another version where he'd been more explicit, but here we go: "So, I’ll be honest, I brought River Song back in because I thought there’s a possibility I’d never write it [Doctor Who] again so that’ll be my goodbye."  From one of Radio Times's innumerable recent articles.

[ZERO_ninja]

How's this?

Thanks, that works. Sorry if my wording came across like I was being against your word btw, just a rule of thumb I go with after everything I've seen people claim has been said that turns out to have not been true, even just from friends who are passing the missinfo on with the best of intentions.

[Celestia]

Huh, that explains River being in the Christmas special. I was under the impression she wasn't going to appear again...which I was fine with considering I lost interest in the character (or, more accurately, the direction they were taking her) during Series 6. But if Moffat thought it was going to be his last episode, I can't really blame him for being a bit self-indulgent with it.

Though that does make me wonder whether or not she'll appear in his actual final episode too, whenever that happens.

[Doctor MK]

Huh, that explains River being in the Christmas special. I was under the impression she wasn't going to appear again...which I was fine with considering I lost interest in the character (or, more accurately, the direction they were taking her) during Series 6. But if Moffat thought it was going to be his last episode, I can't really blame him for being a bit self-indulgent with it.

Though that does make me wonder whether or not she'll appear in his actual final episode too, whenever that happens.

Yeah, River's story seemed to wrap up nicely in Series 7 - personally I think she should have bowed out after The Angels Take Manhattan (her appearances very tied to Amy and Rory, after all) but they managed to give her a sincere goodbye in The Name of the Doctor, so I can just about let that one slide. So yeah, I'm not thrilled at the prospect of her return at Christmas for much the same reasons as you - but I will give credit where credit's due, they're at least playing it as the flipside of Silence in the Library where The Doctor recognises River but she doesn't recognise him. That'll be a bit of fun, I imagine, although I hope the change in tone from Series 9 to Christmas doesn't hit us like whiplash - they've done well to build up a riled, weary Doctor going into the finale, so to see his "hell bent" mindset and grief for Clara disappear at the first sight of River might undermine the whole thing. But it all depends what happens on Saturday, of course, and how we're left with things by the time the credits roll.

Speaking of The Husbands of River Song, here's some character images from the episode:

http://blogtorwho.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/doctor-who-christmas-special-husbands.html

Ho-ho-who!

Edited December 3, 2015 by Doctor MK

[Salamander]

I didn't notice before, but that goofy robot appears not to have a head.  It even has a clear stump, resembling vertebrae.  Curiously, its shoulder-spikes also look distinctly organic.  I wonder what's going on there.

[Doctor MK]

Preview clip from Hell Bent (in spoilers just in case anybody hasn't caught up with Heaven Sent yet)...

[Salamander]

I didn't notice before, but that goofy robot appears not to have a head.  It even has a clear stump, resembling vertebrae.  Curiously, its shoulder-spikes also look distinctly organic.  I wonder what's going on there.

Edit: A couple of new shots from the Christmas special have since surfaced, confirming that the robot is meant to:

Bear King Hydroflax's head.  See, it's a robot bodyguard!