Why is Sonic 3 & Knuckles so awesome?

[Guest]

I always found Sonic 3 overrated, and Sonic & Knuckles underrated, so I always just skip the Sonic 3 part and play Sonic & Knuckles,

I agree, though I prefer Sonic 2, I liked the S&K half of S3&K bet-

it's not like anybody ever missed Tails.

-Hey! I did...

I think S3&K is far too overrated though, both halves, I don't find it THAT great. Though to be fair, it IS better then Sonic CD*.

*In my opinion

[RedYellowBlueCR]

I always found Sonic 3 overrated, and Sonic & Knuckles underrated, so I always just skip the Sonic 3 part and play Sonic & Knuckles, it's not like anybody ever missed Tails. Thanks to Classic Collection I get to save as well. To me Sonic 3 has the most tedious levels in the series (though I love Ice Cap), especially Marble Garden (argh!).

BLASPHEMY! Those words are a great crime towards humanity, and God. lol j/j But seriously, how can you not uphold S3&K? If its not your favorite, ok.. I can live with that, but its EASILY among the best Sonic games ever produced.

[Phos]

Marble Garden is pretty tiresome, and Carnival Night seems awkward to navigate a lot of the time. I usually time over in the second act in spite of knowing what to do about the barrel.

[DistantJ]

Yea see, the thing is, right, with Sonic 3 you have...

Angel Island... Not bad, a bit boring compared to the starter levels in the other three, and it goes all brown and stuff after getting burned... It also forces you into a special stage (I hate those things so I usually skip them).

Hydrocity... Pretty good but it seems so long and repetitive, water in Sonic kinda sucks bum too.

Marble Garden... Hell itself, with awful music too.

Carnival Night... Pretty confusing and frustrating if you ask me, also has water and that stupid barrel thing which nobody knew until they read a guide.

Ice Cap... Okay I admit this one is awesome from the start to the end.

Launch Base... Pretty cool but is it just me or does this one dragggg....

Then when you compare it to Sonic & Knuckles...

Mushroom Hill... So cool and bizarre, has the cool patterned walls thing from the first two games, giant, bouncy mushrooms are video game gold.

Flying Battery... Holy cow this is awesome. This level and it's soundtrack are absolutely freaking epic!

Sandopolis... Really cool and atmospheric though I'll admit it can get tiresome... Particularly never-ending slopes moment where you have to jump onto a moving platform and cross between the two to stop it looping, which is a bit odd.

Lava Reef... Love it! Great atmosphere and theme song, and act 1 & 2 are significantly different.

Hidden Palace... One of the best moments in the series, the face-off between the two characters and then Knuckles learning the truth... Though if you play as Sonic this stage is the very definition of pointlessness.

Sky Sanctuary... Really cool ancient sky ruins which seem to tell a story, and you get to watch the Death Egg in the background, and meet a special Metal Sonic (or mecha or whatever you want to call him, not wanting this to turn into useless trivia), or as Knuckles, get an epic final boss battle with Super Metal Sonic.

Death Egg... Again, immense and epic stuff, with an absolutely colossal final boss at the end of it all.

Perhaps now you can understand why I skip Sonic 3?

[SuperStingray]

post

To each their own I suppose. But for me...

Angel Island - The fire actually was pretty awesome by context. After Sonic 1 and 2, you'd expect the first level to just be a simple introduction through a basic green environment. But this game just dumps you right into the action by burning the whole damn level to the ground right off the bat. And when does it force you into a special stage?

Hydrocity - Only good water level in any Sonic game, mainly because the underwater sections are still dynamic and easier to escape even with the slow down. Act 2 had less water anyway.

Marble Garden - The "stomping" pillars were kind of a bitch, but they weren't common enough for me to really complain about. The rest of the zone was pretty fun and the background was gorgeous.

Carnival Night - Yes, yes the barrel. Perhaps the most evil level element in any Sonic game, yes including the 3D ones. Can't say I personally hold anything against it since I first played Sonic 3 after the web was invented. And the water section was too short to actually matter to me.

Ice Cap -

Launch Base - This level feels like a playground. I can see where you'd say it was tedious, but there was enough action for me to ignore that.

In the end, though, I do agree that the S&K stages were more fun overall.

[RedYellowBlueCR]

The one level that I hold above all else is the Lava Reef Zone from Sonic & Knuckles. Not only was the level gorgeous/unique, but also had perfectly fitting music. It was almost soothing in some strange way. lol The fact that you could also see the Death Egg plunged into the cave roof in the background was a plus as well.

Edited March 26, 2010 by HighCaliburFun

[DaBatGuy]

Actually don't think it's fair to compare S3 to S&K like that as it's meant to be one game. S&K's stages are supposed to be bigger and more epic as they're closer to the game's climax.

[DistantJ]

And when does it force you into a special stage?

There's a moment, I think in act 2, where you spin through a tunnel and once you come out of it you zip across two collapsing platforms and before you can stop you're in one of those little boxes in the walls, the ring materialises behind you and you can't get back out because there's no space to jump over it so you have no choice. You could possibly jump at the last minute but usually I'm not fast enough to remember it's there.

Actually don't think it's fair to compare S3 to S&K like that as it's meant to be one game. S&K's stages are supposed to be bigger and more epic as they're closer to the game's climax.

Yeah but they're not though are they, I'm pretty sure S3&K is pretty different to what the design document had in store for Sonic 3, I'm sure they'd have at least been in a different order, or would have been harder, I mean really, going from Launch Base to Mushroom Hill, doesn't anybody notice a difficulty drop there? It's clear that they decided to make them two games with a good amount of time to go for release and re-tailored the levels accordingly.

[RedYellowBlueCR]

There's a moment, I think in act 2, where you spin through a tunnel and once you come out of it you zip across two collapsing platforms and before you can stop you're in one of those little boxes in the walls, the ring materializes behind you and you can't get back out because there's no space to jump over it so you have no choice. You could possibly jump at the last minute but usually I'm not fast enough to remember it's there.

You don't have to go in there you know. You can easily doge it by hold the left side of the D-pad while your sliding down the tunnel, and it will slow you down enough to miss it,

Edited March 26, 2010 by HighCaliburFun

[DaBatGuy]

If you don't hold the d-pad down as you exit the tube you'll go into a running animation which stops you from breaking the wall and entering the hidden room, unless you're using Knuckles who breaks any wall automatically.

[Blue Blood]

If you don't hold the d-pad down as you exit the tube you'll go into a running animation which stops you from breaking the wall and entering the hidden room, unless you're using Knuckles who breaks any wall automatically.

Just tried it out. You stay in a ball so the wall DOES get smashed. The only way to avoid it is by holding left or jumping. And Knuckles isn't supposed to go there anyway. And because at one you have to consciously decide not to go into a special stage is kind of a petty point to pick on.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Blue Blood

[Detective Shadzter]

Because the game introduced me to the Milky Way -

http://info.sonicretro.org/File:WinningWaysMilkyWayAdvertisement.jpg

Yum yum!

[SefHighwind]

The thing that I love about Sonic 3 and Knuckles was just about everything the game had to offer. I mean just the ability to play the complete Sonic 3 was amazing to me. It just felt natural to enjoy the game to its fullest potential, and I also enjoyed the ability to play as Tails in the S&K portion of the game. When I first played Sonic and Knuckles, I wonder what happened to Tails, and why he wasn't in the game with Sonic. But the first time I played Flying Battery Zone with Tails, it just felt like the game was complete for me.

Another thing that I loved about the game was the soundtrack and level design. The soundtrack was just breathtakingly beautiful, and all of the tracks are just so memorable. To me the tracks just helped make the stages stand out from each other. As far as the designs of the stages go, I will admit that the stages in Sonic and Knuckles were far superior to Sonic 3, but that doesn't mean that I think the stages in 3 were bad. Hell I remember the first time I played Hydrocity Zone. The stage was just so immense to me, and I didn't think anything could top it. Then I reached Ice Cap zone, and then my mind just blew. The level was just amazing in design, and it really stood out to me.

[Rusty Spy]

Just tried it out. You stay in a ball so the wall DOES get smashed. The only way to avoid it is by holding left or jumping. And Knuckles isn't supposed to go there anyway. And because at one you have to consciously decide not to go into a special stage is kind of a petty point to pick on.

Are you sure? I've played the game for eons and have never had any problem with avoiding that room that did not involve simply not holding down.

When you skim to the other collapseable platform, there's a split second where you're in the air, so when you hit the second platform it'll act as if you were in ball form when hitting the ground, making you go into a running stance again.

Since everyone else is doing it:

Angel Island: Pretty good, though a bit too short for my liking. The boss isn't all that interesting, even for the first level.

Hydrocity: By far my favorite water level in any Sonic game for the simple fact that it doesn't drag on so tediously. Even in the underwater bits you can get some decent movement and it's all nice and open for you to stretch your legs.

Marble Garden: I don't see why people don't like this level so much. The only really tedious parts are the running top things you have to use constantly throughout the level. Those are no different from the first one you encounter to the last. But overall, aside from that, the level is very fun to play for it's constant hazards and cool theme.

Carnival Night: Also a very fun level with a lot of fun gimmicks. And while it is long, at least your not wasting time with tedious gimmicks, and you can skip a LOT of the acts if you know the right routes, making this level pretty short actually.

Ice Cap: Despite it's cool music, the level itself is a bit bland compared to the varied and deep backdrops of the previous levels and is pretty straight forward, too. Fun to play, no doubt, but the real fun comes from act 2.

Launch Base: This is the level that really seems to drag on for me. Not much to say, as the gameplay is as straightforward as it gets.

Mushroom Hill: Fun level, really challenging trying to get some of the best powerups and the all the special rings in order.

Flying Battery: Also drags a bit, but is sort of in the middle with a little bit of fun parts, and a little bit of boring parts.

Sandopolis: This is the level that is the "Marble Garden" for me. Nearly all the gimmicks are just time wasters, the biggest offender being the ropes that make you cliff jump down the high buildings, so much in fact that I always skip them entirely.

Lava Reef: Awesome level, especially in act 2 which nose dives into epic atmosphere. Act 1 is basically just the bridge to that fun act.

Hidden Palace: Nothing to say really except shitty, yet very amusing boss.

Sky Sanctuary: A little too straight forward, the bosses aren't all that much to go crazy over, though being on even ground with the Metropolis Zone boss (as Sonic at least) feels soooooo sweet.

Death Egg: Though it drags, it's nice and challenging, and the backdrop of the first act is just jaw dropping when you can comprehend the scale of the fortress. The first act boss I've yet to figure out how to beat without needing to take a hit without shields. The boss is very fitting for a final boss, especially when it gets really chaotic with the place rumbling around you and breaking apart.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Black Spy

[DistantJ]

Because the game introduced me to the Milky Way -

http://info.sonicretro.org/File:WinningWaysMilkyWayAdvertisement.jpg

Yum yum!

Cor, I remember that advert in Sonic the Comic I must have gotten through so many Milky Ways that week, I wanted a Mega Drive so bad back then!

[Evile Cruelty]

Why is Sonic 3 & Knuckles so awesome? It doesn't need a reason. It just is.

Most people I've talked to say Sonic 2 is the best Sonic game. I enjoyed S3&K the most, however.

Don't get me wrong, Sonic 2 is a great game. It just seemed, whenever I played it, that there was something

keeping me from enjoying it as much as I did with Sonic 3&K. Also, collecting all of the Chaos and Super

Emeralds and completing Sonic 3 & Knuckles for the first time was an awesome experience.

Also, the game's music rules.

[Semi-colon e]

I really like Sonic 3 and Knuckles, but I think I've played it too much. You know what my problem is? The levels are far too fucking long, especially in the S&K half, they're so much more tedious than the speedy and fun ones in Sonic 3. The amount of alternate routes was amazing, but I somehow prefer the intricacy of Sonic CD. I prefer playing the classic games as one full sitting and Sonic 3 and Knuckles is too long for that.

Music and level design is fantastic though, my problem is it's just too big. The shields are great too, and I don't know why they haven't used them since.

[Random Rhyme]

I agree that the levels in the second half of Sonic and Knuckles are not as enjoyable as the first half.

Flying Battery Zone and Sandopolis are the main ones that annoy me.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Shade737

[Glenn]

I agree that the levels in the second half of Sonic and Knuckles are not as enjoyable as the first half.

Flying Battery Zone and Sandopolis are the main ones that annoy me.

I adore Flying Battery Zone, but can't stand Sandopolis Zone. That's my one low point of the entire experience (still good, though)!

[Random Rhyme]

I adore Flying Battery Zone, but can't stand Sandopolis Zone. That's my one low point of the entire experience (still good, though)!

Act 1 in Sandopolis Zone is bearable but Act 2 is where it goes downhill.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Shade737

[Rusty Spy]

Act 1 in Sandopolis Zone is bearable but Act 2 is where it goes downhill.

At least the music was epic, amiright?

[Random Rhyme]

At least the music was epic, amiright?

Yea, the music was the only good thing about it.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Shade737

[Roorii]

Because Sega still seemed to care for the franchise. The production value for the game just seemed to show love.

The ambitious nature of the game was a major part of it (trying to fit Sonic 3 & Knuckles into one cart, before the project got split into two), Sega wanted to deliver a grand adventure to us, and beat their previous games in scale.

The gameplay was tight, and the the game truely pushed the limits of Sega's system.

Compare that with now; games such as Sonic Unleashed, Sega literally handed the game to a bunch of no-names and just crossed their fingers. Sure the day-time stages came out good, but it was panned by reviews (surprise surprise). It just shows Sega really don't give a rat's-ass about the quality of the series like they used to.

Meanwhile, Nintendo are coming out with masterpieces, and making a butt load of money in the process, yet here we are still talking about 1994 games.

Oh how the mighty have fallen.

[DistantJ]

Compare that with now; games such as Sonic Unleashed, Sega literally handed the game to a bunch of no-names and just crossed their fingers. Sure the day-time stages came out good, but it was panned by reviews (surprise surprise). It just shows Sega really don't give a rat's-ass about the quality of the series like they used to.

While I mostly agree, I have to contest the points about Sonic Unleashed, that one actually did seem to have a lot of effort put into it - it even was given it's own amazing new graphics engine, created solely to be able to make Sonic levels work the way they do without loading screens and things, the graphics are amazingly done and Sonic and crew are so well put together - it's just they had to do crap like the Werehog to pad it out so they didn't end up with like a 2 hour long game - clearly, they should have thought of a better way, but I think it'd be ignorant for us to say there wasn't care and effort in Unleashed - it seems to be the first one to have been treated with real care and ambition since SA2/Heroes. I think most fans will tell you that their ideal 3D Sonic would be Unleashed without the Werehog, and I certainly hope this isn't the last we see of that game engine.

Edited March 29, 2010 by DistantJ

[SefHighwind]

Act 1 in Sandopolis Zone is bearable but Act 2 is where it goes downhill.

As much as Act 2 was a bit of a let down, I really enjoyed the level idea. The idea of having to race the clock to avoid being killed by ghosts was a very cool idea. The only thing that really brought the level down was the annoying dual sand slide thing towards the beginning of the level. That little device always gave me issues when I was a kid, and it gives me a slight issue today.

Also the music was very awesome!