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Future Sonic Heroes and Mario & Sonic Titles confirmed?

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Wait he thinks Sonic Heroes is shit and he's on the development team of Sonic 4!?!? :lol: Talk about being a hypocrite!

All I can say is the future doesn't look bright for Sonic if there are idiots like this guy in charge. Sonic Heroes has been my shinning star in an otherwise sky of shit as far as most 3D Sonic games have gone - Sonic 4 looks terrible so I dunno why this guy can be so smug. <_<

Maybe because pretty much everyone in the press is saying Sonic 4 looks great?

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Wait he thinks Sonic Heroes is shit and he's on the development team of Sonic 4!?!? :lol: Talk about being a hypocrite!

All I can say is the future doesn't look bright for Sonic if there are idiots like this guy in charge. Sonic Heroes has been my shinning star in an otherwise sky of shit as far as most 3D Sonic games have gone - Sonic 4 looks terrible so I dunno why this guy can be so smug. <_<

So he's a hypocrite and an idiot because you think Heroes is good and you think Sonic 4 is bad? Give me a break.

I thought Heroes was terrible and I'm not afraid to admit it. Should I start calling you an idiot because you disagree with me? Yeah I don't think that'd fly too well.

It's called a fucking opinion. Learn to respect those that differ from yours next time.

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So he's a hypocrite and an idiot because you think Heroes is good and you think Sonic 4 is bad? Give me a break.

I thought Heroes was terrible and I'm not afraid to admit it. Should I start calling you an idiot because you disagree with me? Yeah I don't think that'd fly too well.

It's called a fucking opinion. Learn to respect those that differ from yours next time.

Nah you got it all wrong; I'd call you an idiot cuz you don't agree with me. :P

The fact that this guy sounds so smug is actually what shits me and that he's on a new Sonic game's development shouldn't he be a bit more tactful with the things he says? He's practical bagging out Sonic Heroes - don't think the previous games designers and people of SEGA would like that much.

People like that shit me, thinking that their game is so great and being so derisive on another game in the series. So I will voice my opinion that he is an idiot.

Sonic Heroes was awesome btw, defintely the true route classic Sonic in 3D should take.

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Nah you got it all wrong; I'd call you an idiot cuz you don't agree with me. :P

The fact that this guy sounds so smug is actually what shits me and that he's on a new Sonic game's development shouldn't he be a bit more tactful with the things he says? He's practical bagging out Sonic Heroes - don't think the previous games designers and people of SEGA would like that much.

People like that shit me, thinking that their game is so great and being so derisive on another game in the series. So I will voice my opinion that he is an idiot.

Sonic Heroes was awesome btw, defintely the true route classic Sonic in 3D should take.

Sonic Heroes had a number of design flaws. It may have looked classic, but it was far from it.

A comparisons of the flaws between Heroes and S4 made below in the Spoiler tag below.

Sonic Heroes

-The controls were slippery in Speed Formation.

-The Gliding in Power formation was sluggish and too slow and didn't cover enough distance.

-The Flight formation just sucked, you had a ludicrously small flight guage, and when you ran out, you lost all forward/sideways momentum and dropped like a rock. It was also WAY too slow.

-Additional problems included the fact that you lose almost all your momentum when jumping as Sonic (other speed character) and the homing attack was nerfed so badly that instead of adding to you momentum like SA2, it reduced your overall momentum to a fixed number set to the homing attack.

-The homing attack was also very inaccurate which led to many cheap deaths by shooting off into a chasm.

-Most levels after Seaside Hill are giant deathpits with floating walkways. Aren't bottomless pits taboo in Sonic games?

-The rail-switching mechanic was broken, and involved flinging the character in a direction, if there was a rail there, the character would latch onto it about 75% of the time.

-Level design can be very good in areas I'll admit, but towards the end of the game, the levels were lengthened artificially by literally recycling the previous section (Egg Fleet and Final Fortress, I'm looking at you)

Shall I go on?

-The 4 teams you played had to go through the same 14 stages in the exact same orders, even though they were in different places in their starting cutscenes.

-The recycled stages didn't have different routes for each each, they were just made easier or harder abitrarily, by giving enemies a larger or smaller healthbar.

-Bosses were pitiful. Two bosses; the casino and haunted castle had the exact same "enemy rush" boss fight.

-Egg Emperor was the cheapest boss in the game as he could damage you for going too slowly, he could damage you for going to fast and he could literally barge you into a bottomless pit. He had one major flaw, which was flight formation; which after level 2 or 3, could absolutely annihilate him.

Multiplayer had horrible framerates and weren't really all that fun.

-Any version that wasn't the gamecube version had even worse controls and awful framerates (espcially the PS2 version)

-Glitches are a plenty, Heroes was hardly a technical masterpeice. The biggest most noticable glitch that I cam accross was randonly clipping through a platform, falling through it, and dying because there was a death-pit directly beneath it (and everything else).

Team Chaotix has the worst play mechanics, and deserve their own little section.

-The objects were very small.

-Hints were very vague.

-There was no radar to let you know how close you were to the object.

-You had to find far too many of the objects.

-The levels themselves were the same as the other 3 teams, which meant that they were designed to be run through quickly, and weren't designed for exlploration or searching. This led to a poor experience overall.

-Any additions to the level design to facillitate searching, were arbitrary and just involved the inclusion of an extra platform to jump on.

Sonic 4

-Sonic 4 has a bad physics engine that occasionally allows him to stick to walls. Momentum is a bit iffy in places. Some areas seem to have more friction that other areas.

-Sonic appears to accelerate to slowly or his sull-speed animation takes too long to be switched into (which is fixed).

-There was a horribly thought out minecart level (which has been replaced).

-Music is a bit hit-or-miss.

-Level design is solid for the most part, but it can include some bottomless pits that aren't necessary.

-The homing attack is poorly used (its existence is not a problem, its usage is).

-Enemies like bubbles have been remade, and being abused for above homing attack.

-Bosses aren't really very challenging (like the originals were that hard to begin with)

-Bosses are redesigns of some classic bosses, namely Splash Hill, and Casino Street. The others I'd say are pretty original.

-The final boss is a copy and looks to be underwhelming (but its hard to say considering I haven't played it)

-Sonic doesn't uncurl when flying off a ramp.

-Special stages are range from bland to good to cheap.

-Levels appear to be rehashed, but they do have their own unique artwork and look rather different and better than their classic counterparts (except Splash Hill, which somehow looks worse...)

So to summarise. Sonic 4 is a rehash[?] aimed to given people who don't play Sonic regularly, a blast from the past.

It has numerous flaws. Some of which have been resolved, others may not be resolved (unclear at this stage)

Sonic Heroes was a pretty fun, OK platformer which rehashed itself, let alone any previous game.

It too has numerous flaws in design and gameplay. More than Sonic 4. Its glitches are also much worse than sticking to the wall (which has almost no effect on the gameplay, unless you try to do it).

Both are flawed. Sonic 4 is technically less flawed. Sonic 4 has opportunity for improvement due to episodic nature. Whether each episode will actually be better than the previous, is not yet known.

In spite all of this, its down to subjectivity. You like Heroes more than you will like Sonic 4. The PR/developer guy, didn't like Sonic Heroes, and sounded smug, thinking his game was better.

Both options are valid. there is no reason why you should call the PR/developer an idiot. He is no less 'correct' than you are, so just leave it.

There was no need to have made that comment.

Edited by Scar

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I'm playing through Sonic Heroes right now. I've harped on the game before, but I'm beginning to realize I have a strong love/hate relationship with this game. It has great music, great level design, some moments of pure absolute fun, and I like that this pays so much homage to the classic Sonic games. But on the other hand, there's tons of glitches, the controls are slippery, there are some incredibly cheap deaths, I hate how you lose all level-ups when you die, the writing and dialogue is just cringe-worthy, I hate the theme songs given to each teams (And don't get me started on the main theme. Singing the game's title song over and over, very creative) the game feels artificially lengthened since it pretty much makes you play the game four times, Chaotix's levels can be downright terrible, there's pretty much no differences between teams outside of difficulty level, and the special stages really could have used some tweaking, especially in the later ones. Plus, the camera controls. What the hell, Sega, who was still mapping camera controls to the shoulder buttons by this point in gaming? And instead of just giving us full control of the camera via analog stick, you use it for a completely useless first person view. Seriously, does anyone EVER use that?

I really don't think there will ever be a Sonic Heroes 2, but I wouldn't be against it if they fixed all the problems I just mentioned. Because when the game is good, it's really good. Great, even. But then it has some bad parts...really, really bad parts.

Edited by Speederino

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Well, I certainly wouldn't mind a Sonic Heroes sequel. I personally found the game to be enjoyable despite its flaws, and I thought the whole team gameplay was kinda unique. So yea, that would be pretty cool.

As for Mario and Sonic, I would love to see a platformer or a game with a story of some kind. I was a little dissapointed that the first game was another sports game, but it was fun nonetheless. Though I would love to see a platformer in the future.

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And instead of just giving us full control of the camera via analog stick, you use it for a completely useless first person view. Seriously, does anyone EVER use that?

It can be used for a nifty little Easter Egg though. Stare at Rouge in first-person view for a few seconds as Shadow or Omega and she'll wink at you! =3

As for Mario and Sonic, I would love to see a platformer or a game with a story of some kind.

Mario & Sonic 2 DS! The Adventure Tours are the shiz, man. It's RPG-esque adventure mode loads and loads of cameos, continuity nods, boss battles, and miscellaneous other surprises everywhere. And it's all written by Yasushi Otake (with supervision from Shiro Maekawa, I would assume)! Total awesomesauce.

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I hope this will change the Sonic franchise for the better, because we don't need anymore complaining. Why can't we have a pleasant experience? Geez.

And it is nice to see another Mario/Sonic game in the works. I loved both Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games, and it would be interesting to see what the next entry will be. Shame that not everyone likes them.

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^ Indeed. I loved M@S 2 for the Wii. The music, festival mode as well as the remade dream levels (Radical Highway FTW). The DS version had a great RPG mode, and I personally thought the story (graphics and musictoo) was much better than Chronicles, in the way that charcters were used. Here's hoping for another good crossoer.

I'd like to see them implement the story mode on Wii, add two more characters (from each side), some more music remixes and online play. A 3DS version of the game would nice too.

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I am suprised as HEROES never got a sequel considering if you think about in terms of sales when it was released originally in 2003/04 it stayed in the top 10 for well over a year in the U.K and most of europe, and on all consoles going all the way to its Platinum/classic/cheaper prices, and yes fan reaction was kinda love/hate but in terms of sales and money , it made a bomb. If it were a film studiou there'd be a planned trilogy coming lmao.

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Im really interested if the Mario and Sonic (next game) will be adventure, due to not being a sports game. I don't see what else it can be. But heres hoping. B)

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Honestly after Heroes, it made me wonder if they could do another one.

Seeing the direction of the newer games, it would benefit from a better script.

Heroes "chain" was that the dialog seemed to fly by, and boss fights were very sketchy.

**but the music.. it just worked so well, going in all sorts of directions.

More Mario & Sonic team-ups.. hmm it seems to have worked out so far.

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I think that stuff about the next Mario & Sonic game not being sports related is bull. There is no way Nintendo would allow Sega to make a platformer or adventure game with Mario. No offense, but I think everyone can agree that Sega's track record for their Sonic games over the last few years is too sketchy for Nintendo to trust their number 1 mascot in Sega's hands for that type of game. It's either going to be another "simple" type of game (kart racer, different type of mini-game collection, etc.) or Nintendo are going to be MUCH more involved than they were with the two Olympic games.

Either way I'm willing to bet we're never going to get the epic platformer, or adventure, or rpg Mario & Sonic game most of us are hoping for.

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With the timing of the announcement and the game more than likely not coming out until 2011, that just screams to me borelympics Olympics 2012, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

Those games are pretty crap and basically only something I intend to eventually pick up due to being a collector of anything Sonic...no matter how much I hate the Olympics and the concept of Mario and Sonic together.

Either way I'm willing to bet we're never going to get the epic platformer, or adventure, or rpg Mario & Sonic game most of us are hoping for.

And I say here here to this. It might just be the old school "you were either a SEGA kid of a Nintendo kid and hater the other" thing or it might just be because I despise the idea of any canon Sonic crossovers, but this idea just needs to not happen. Ever.

If it's non canon, say something like Sonic being in Super Smash Bros, then yeah go for it. The game can suck as much as it wants as long as they don't try to drag canon Sonic stories into it.

If the 'non-olympics' rumor is true I just hope it's some trivial thing like a kart racing game or...I dunno...a learn the alphabet game with Mario and Sonic.

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Sonic and Mario already have joint story in Winter Olympics DS. But this story was uncanonical, simply because Mario and Sonic is a separate franchise.

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Just because you don't like Nintendo as much as Sega doesn't mean that your opinion should dictate what a company can and cannot decide to do. Besides, even if the next Mario and Sonic game WAS a platformer, the story would most likely STILL be uncanon. Genre does not dictate canon, the actual story does. And I very much doubt the story would tie the worlds together in a continuity-based way that fits all the bits and pieces together sensibly, no matter WHAT kind of game it is.

And just because you might hate the official crossovers like the Olympics and Brawl, they still have happened regardless of canon. This isn't the 1990s anymore, Nintendo and Sega have almost an inseparable relationship now (going so far as to celebrate eachother's mascot anniversaries) and have supported eachother a lot. I'd go so far to say that Nintendo helped the Sonic brand regain some its former popularity through the crossover, because it brought interest in Sonic to Nintendo fans of today. Which ended up causing Sonic Colors to get made, so there you go. No matter how much you might hate the idea, Mario and Sonic together helps both companies, and because of that, they're not gonna stop doing it for your sake.

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:P

I never said I hate Nintendo, well I might've back in the day, but not now, and I most CERTAINLY don't hate brawl, it's one of my favourite games.

I just simply hate the idea of Sonic paired up with any other gaming franchise. If it's non-canon then that's fine, but if it's going to be something that is a platformer or an RPG or something that usually has to have story then that is as good as being canon. Stick to those crappy olympic games if they have to do anything like this.

Or better yet, put that effort into a Sonic game and give us something that isn't terrible or at best mediocre, make us a great SONIC game.

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Hey, they can always put good effort into both Sonic games and the M&S games. Nintendo puts good effort into almost all of their games, I don't see why Sonic Team can't do the same. Sega already does in general, actually (outside of ST, Sega has actually been making pretty good games all this time, if you ask me).

And they could do a good story without making a canon story. They could treat it as its own, different world entirely. Kind of like Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright seems to be. Just throw the two franchises into a fantasy world, but still have an interesting story. Brawl's actually a good example, even though the story is rather barebones- Sonic comes in to save the day at the end, after all. But of course if there ever were a M&S platformer or RPG, both Mario and Sonic would have to be involved from the start for it to be interesting, as many were disappointed to see Sonic not come into the story of Brawl until the end.

Edited by Shade Vortex

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I never said I hate Nintendo, well I might've back in the day, but not now, and I most CERTAINLY don't hate brawl, it's one of my favourite games.

I just simply hate the idea of Sonic paired up with any other gaming franchise. If it's non-canon then that's fine, but if it's going to be something that is a platformer or an RPG or something that usually has to have story then that is as good as being canon. Stick to those crappy olympic games if they have to do anything like this.

Or better yet, put that effort into a Sonic game and give us something that isn't terrible or at best mediocre, make us a great SONIC game.

Platformers don't need a story, and even if there is one, it will never be canonical.

Cross-overs are never canon, because it involves tying two canons together and shit just gets complicated, and noone can be bothered to deal with it.

A Mario and Sonic platformer would be fun. No harm in it, as it won't affect the continuity of either franchises.

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Platformers don't need a story, and even if there is one, it will never be canonical.

Cross-overs are never canon, because it involves tying two canons together and shit just gets complicated, and noone can be bothered to deal with it.

A Mario and Sonic platformer would be fun. No harm in it, as it won't affect the continuity of either franchises.

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The idea that Sega can create a great Mario and Sonic platformer, as well as a great anniversary title and potentially realise Sonic 4 episode 2 in the same year, whilst already working on Sonic 4 E1, Sonic Free Riders and Sonic Colours WIi/DS is laughable. There's just way to much in such a short space of time and that ultimately can't be a good thing.

Edited by blackherox

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