Are we getting too picky?

[Tornado]

No, you really didn't....you havent really listened at all when I'm saying that the people complaining about these things was a much larger group than you will care to admit. That was the bulk of my last post, and you havent touched on any of that.

I actually have, but lets break it down anyways:

Jim Sterling's article comes out saying how ridiculous it is that people complain about green eyes (or something like that) => There is a strong positive reaction to said article from people => People react positively because they are so tired of seeing these complaints => People are so tired of seeing these complaints because they see them a lot => People see them a lot because they are coming from a large source OR a very vocal/loud/passionate source

The parts bolded are not supported by the train of logic anymore than what I said is. I could just as easily replace that with "People are tired of these complaints because they have seen them for so long" and "They have seen them for so long because the minority has never let them go."

And this is pretty much exactly what I saw upon joining the message board. I was so psyched for Sonic 4 that I wanted to talk about it with other people who were psyched, and I got a lot of my news from sonic stadium, so I join the sonic stadium message boards. Upon joining though, I am actually quite shocked to see sooooooo many complaints about the game, and let me tell you, A LOT of them were about aesthetic properties that affect the game itself very little. I did indeed see green eye complaints, I saw running animation complaints, I saw "Bring Classic Sonic Back!!!!!!!" sorts of complaints, and that's just the icing on the cake.

So? No one is saying that people haven't been making these statements at all. But the fact is that there isn't, and never was, a wide-reaching subversive minority who bitched about modern Sonic. It has always been the same handful of people since the beginning voicing their opinions, and within that small group was an even smaller one that took it to the extent of "I'm not buying Sonic 4 because of green eyes." There was a temporary surge in anti-Modern Sonic sentiment when Sonic 4 was made the official title, but that was months before Sterling wrote those articles. It sounds to me like you've been debating these few people repeatedly, but that is only because those same people push the same sentiments repeatedly.

But that isn't what the Sterling articles claimed. The Sterling articles, particularly the Sonicnetta one, latched onto the very few people writing off the game solely because of Modern Sonic, and then used that as proof that everyone in the fanbase who was expressing any criticism of the game was doing so about trivial things, and that the people voicing criticism about green eyes were all the extremist ones who were saying "I refuse to buy this game because of modern Sonic." The fanbase ran with that assessment of the situation, went "lol that's so true," grouped everyone who complained about aesthetics as "green eyes, no buy" zealots, and hugely exaggerated both the amount of people who actually held anti-modern Sonic ideas in the first place as well as the severity of the beliefs themselves.

So sonic being the modern sonic in sonic 4 will not affect how good or bad a game sonic 4 turns out to be, but so many people were writing the game off based solely on these aesthetics.

I have yet to see a single person, in my entire time in the Sonic fandom, say "I refuse to purchase this game because I don't like modern Sonic." There were some half-assed grumblings about it when the title was officially announced, but they were always combined with some other reason. "So many people were writing the game off based solely on these aesthetics" is simply an argument that you cannot support, and it sure as hell is not the same thing as "I wish Sonic 4 didn't have modern Sonic," which shows quite clearly how much damage those articles did when people are treating the two ideas as synonymous.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Tornado

[MrROBOTO1988]

I could just as easily replace that with "People are tired of these complaints because they have seen them for so long" and "They have seen them for so long because the minority has never let them go."

But the fact is that there isn't, and never was, a wide-reaching subversive minority who bitched about modern Sonic.

These points are both fair enough, but the logic could still be applied both ways. Perhaps I just joined at a time when it was on the top of everybody's mind, and it sure seemed wide-reaching to me. However, you have been around here longer than I, so again, perhaps I just joined at a time when it seemed very prevalent.

There was a small temporary surge in anti-Modern Sonic sentiment when Sonic 4 was made the official title, but that was months and months before Sterling wrote those articles.

This is not entirely true, seeing as Sonic 4 was officially made the title on February 4th, and it is now only April 7th. So it's only been Sonic 4 for 2 months, and I joined this forum on March 10th. Sterling's articles weren't much later than the events he wrote about happened.

I have yet to see a single person, in my entire time in the Sonic fandom, say "I refuse to purchase this game because I don't like modern Sonic."

Did you see that petition going around a little less than a month ago? Modern sonic may not have been the sole reason, but it was a very large one.

There were some half-assed grumblings about it when the title was officially announced, but they were always combined with some other reason.

What other reasons were there when the game was officially announced?? There was what, 1.5 seconds of actual footage shown?

[Remy]

What other reasons were there when the game was officially announced?? There was what, 1.5 seconds of actual footage shown?

Graphics, mainly.

Now we've seen the whole game though, the grumblings go a tad deeper.

I don't think anyone has anything against the moden sonic character, but rather his games.

[MrROBOTO1988]

Graphics, mainly.

Now we've seen the whole game though, the grumblings go a tad deeper.

I don't think anyone has anything against the moden sonic character, but rather his games.

Exactly, after the initial announcement, all of the complaints were aesthetically based because there simply wasn't anything else that could warrant a complaint. I'm very aware that is much different now, but Tornado seemed quite sturdy in his claim that it was never solely about aesthetics. yes it was.

[Tornado]

I'm very aware that is much different now, but Tornado seemed quite sturdy in his claim that it was never solely about aesthetics. yes it was.

The problem with this statement is two fold:

1. Even if the complaints were only about aesthetics, expressing complaints is not the same thing as saying "fuck it I'm not buying this shit," which is what the Sterling articles flat out said was the case for everybody who complained about the aesthetics; as well as what you have contended multiple times as being the case. All squares are rectangles but all rectangles are not squares.
   
2. The biggest single complaint when the 2 second teaser was shown wasn't that the game used modern Sonic. It was that the game looked too much like Sonic Rush (be that a valid complaint at the time or not). And quite a lot of people, including myself (I've since started sitting on a fence), did go "fuck you Sega I'm not buying it" when we saw that. But unlike green eyes, that wasn't a purely aesthetic complaint.
   

Edited April 10, 2010 by Tornado

[Swiss]

I'd be willing to place money on the fact that most people, like myself, are just going to buy the game without even trying the Trial/Demo beforehand. And most of those would be people who were crying over the tiniest details of the game.

Granted, there are a few reasons why I'd see people would complain, but some of them are practically non-existent in terms of making the game a joy to play. If these people buy and play the game, THEN explain with some form of reason how they don't like it, that's fair enough.

[Light]

I'd be willing to place money on the fact that most people, like myself, are just going to buy the game without even trying the Trial/Demo beforehand. And most of those would be people who were crying over the tiniest details of the game.

Granted, there are a few reasons why I'd see people would complain, but some of them are practically non-existent in terms of making the game a joy to play. If these people buy and play the game, THEN explain with some form of reason how they don't like it, that's fair enough.

I wouldn't be surprised. It's an inexpensive Sonic game that gamers would want to play. 2D Sonic games are usually good right? Sonic 4 is looking like it'll cost no more than $15, which is right up my alley because I can't really afford modern games on a Food Lion paycheck at the moment.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Light

[MrROBOTO1988]

I wouldn't be surprised. It's an inexpensive Sonic game that gamers would want to play. 2D Sonic games are usually good right? Sonic 4 is looking like it'll cost no more than $15, which is right up my alley because I can't really afford modern games on a Food Lion paycheck at the moment.

Rumor has it, at least a couple weeks ago rumor had it, that Sonic 4: episode 1 will only be 5 dollars. 5 bucks an episode is one mighty fine price if you ask me

[speedfreak]

There is no way Sega are only going to charge $5 an episode. That rumor is bull.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

There is no way Sega are only going to charge $5 an episode. That rumor is bull.

What do you think they'll charge then? I think it'll be no more than $10, but to some that might seem too much.

[MrROBOTO1988]

There is no way Sega are only going to charge $5 an episode. That rumor is bull.

Based on what? There was actually leaked XBLA screens that indicated it would cost 400 MS points, the equivalent of $5.

[speedfreak]

Aren't Sega charging $5 alone just for forklift Ryo in SASASR? Do you really think Sega would sell us an entire episode of Sonic 4 at the same price? The cheapest STH4 will be is $10 but honestly I think it will be even more. It's going to sell big time no matter what.

That leaked price means nothing to me. I would be shocked if this game was sold at $5 an episode.

Classic Sonic games are $5 or more on Wii, PSN, and Xbox so why would something new cost less/the same? I just won't believe Sonic 4 will be only $5 until I've downloaded it.

Edited April 9, 2010 by speedfreak

[Phos]

Aren't Sega charging $5 alone just for forklift Ryo in SASASR? Do you really think Sega would sell us an entire episode of Sonic 4 at the same price? The cheapest STH4 will be is $10 but honestly I think it will be even more. It's going to sell big time no matter what.

That leaked price means nothing to me. I would be shocked if this game was sold at $5 an episode.

Classic Sonic games are $5 or more on Wii, PSN, and Xbox so why would something new cost less/the same? I just won't believe Sonic 4 will be only $5 until I've downloaded it.

I could see it at $5, mainly because they could quite literally not be making this game's assets in a cheaper manner. 3D character models to save effort of the stuff that moves, (poorly) tiled prerendered backgrounds, outsourced design work, small sound team, you name a corner, this game cuts it.

[DeVeAn]

No one needs to act like they are above all and excluded from the "Sonic fanbase." We all come here for a decent discussion and Sonic, I assume.

[Barry the Nomad]

Too answer the thread title: Yes.

[Phos]

Too answer the thread title: Yes.

Sounds more like you just like it more the way it is now, so rather than give a reason for it, you instead just paint the opposition as complainers.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

wowow sonic has green eyes in this game......

Why are you instigating? That drama has long passed from this forum, and isn't as extreme as it used to be.

[Mort]

Sonic's eye color was never a real talking point about this game. It was never even a loud minority. It was something that was pretty much ignored until kicking the shit out of that minority became the popular thing to do, upon which it was exaggerated beyond recognition and demonized. And it required outside sources for that to start happening.

Sorry, but more than a few members of this forum deserve to get the shit kicked out of them. You don't remember the rather large thread on sonic retro about how Sonic Adventure was what really killed the Dreamcast, not the hype of the PS2, the piracy, its lack of a DVD player, the financial failures and tarnishing of the Sega brand name with Sega constantly launching the 32X, Sega CD, and Sega Saturn only to quickly drop them, but because after most people who played and saw Sonic Adventure didn't want anything to do with Sega or their consoles after that game. It had well over 200 responses and most actually agreed with the OP, which is just insane regardless of your opinion on the game. There is a reason why the Sonic fandom is considered the text book case for "unpleasable fanbase" by most of the internet because for the most part, it is very true.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Mort

[Remy]

We're not Retro, though.

[Mort]

We're not Retro, though.

Yes, but I'm sure at least a few folks check both here and retro.

[Barry the Nomad]

Sounds more like you just like it more the way it is now, so rather than give a reason for it, you instead just paint the opposition as complainers.

Yes, I'm happy with is the way it is.

I'm not giving my reasons because ( A ) that is reason enough and ( B ) it's a beautiful day outside and I'd rather enjoy it than get into a pointless debate over a video game.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Doctor Eggman

[Chaosmaster8753]

Sorry, but more than a few members of this forum deserve to get the shit kicked out of them. You don't remember the rather large thread on sonic retro about how Sonic Adventure was what really killed the Dreamcast, not the hype of the PS2, the piracy, its lack of a DVD player, the financial failures and tarnishing of the Sega brand name with Sega constantly launching the 32X, Sega CD, and Sega Saturn only to quickly drop them, but because after most people who played and saw Sonic Adventure didn't want anything to do with Sega or their consoles after that game. It had well over 200 responses and most actually agreed with the OP, which is just insane regardless of your opinion on the game. There is a reason why the Sonic fandom is considered the text book case for "unpleasable fanbase" by most of the internet because for the most part, it is very true.

Where does such a thread exist? I tried looking for it, and couldn't find it.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Chaosmaster8753

[Phos]

Yes, I'm happy with is the way it is.

I'm not giving my reasons because ( A ) that is reason enough and ( B ) it's a beautiful day outside and I'd rather enjoy it than get into a pointless debate over a video game.

That would be alright, if not for what is essentially libel.

[Light]

sonic should be like in sonic 3 and knuckles and not green eyes

I can't tell if you're trolling or not so I'll ask you this: why shouldn't Sonic be the way he is now and why shouldn't Sonic have green eyes?

[BlueFlare]

I can't tell if you're trolling or not so I'll ask you this: why shouldn't Sonic be the way he is now and why shouldn't Sonic have green eyes?

I was about to ask the same thing, but you were faster. I really don't get it how Sonic's eye color or his looks can bother some people so much.