Jump to content
Awoo.

Are we getting too picky?


DistantJ

Recommended Posts

Lol it at Phos. He's the one who provided said scientific information, and the matter of him taking the time to do so makes you come off as snobbish in refusing to take the chance to look it up. You could at the very least ask and read up on the information, instead of brushing it off with the "lol..that's funny" dismissal.

wtf is the matter with some people here? They keep reading what I say and turn it into something else. I "Lol'd" because I just thought calling it scientific was funny. I never said "Lol, whoever did that wasted his/her time," or "Lol, what a loser." I would gladly look it up if someone linked me to it, or told me who made it, which no one has done, besides you just now. I'm not going to look it up since he said that it was an earlier topic, which probably got moved down a few pages already. How can I be snobbish when I never refused to look it up, when did I ever say I wouldn't look it up? Also, I'm not the one that told him to take his time out of his day to make such a topic. I find it rude that you say I come of as snobbish, when in all reality I am not, and I will end it there.

I don't want to start an argument or w/e, but it seems more and more that my opinions are always "wrong" somehow or are taken the wrong way with little backing <.<

Edited by Lunar
  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alright, fair enough.

Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention in my previous post, is that I actually DO like most of the modern Sonic games. To assume that people hate these games, just because they prefer the Robotnik name, is completely asinine. It's just a matter of personal preference. Dr. Robotnik just-so-happened to be the name that I grew up with, so that's what I continue to call him. It's as simple as that.

Well hey, if it's just a matter of personal preferences, then there's nothing wrong with that. A good thing actually, since you don't see any problem either way you go.

It's just that a lot of people who end up questioning a simple thing like that usually end up making such a fuss about it that I'm inclined to silence it the moment I see it happening. I'm sure I don't need to tell you of those silly situations among those kind of die-hards, right?

wtf is the matter with some people here? They keep reading what I say and turn it into something else. I "Lol'd" because I just thought calling it scientific was funny. I never said "Lol, whoever did that wasted his/her time," or "Lol, what a loser." .

.

.

.

I find it rude that you say I come of as snobbish, when in all reality I am not, and I will end it there.

Well sorry for being rude about it, but I was just being honest in how those word come across to others who read it.

As you know (or in case you didn't), this place has a history of sarcasm and animosity among a lot of member that something that can seem nice might've actually be something insulting. "Lol, that's funny" can mean a number of things, but it is generally meant to be more insulting the way I've seen it. That probably why some people here are like that towards you when reading some of your posts.

Sorry if I read you the wrong way, but we still have a number of insensitive assholes like those around these forums. I'd be glad to show you the data if I could find it, but I don't remember the topic it was made.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ I'm not a troll and I try not to be an asshole, I try to debate maturely and soundly. So sorry for the misunderstanding, can we agree to get back on topic? Don't want a topic to get locked due to this XD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...and there was in fact a very large topic discussing a similar assertion (the main difference being that it was specifically about Sonic Unleashed), which even had scientific information proving said assertion wrong;
Having actually participated in said bitchstorm, I'll have you know that the only thing we really proved was that Unleashed had a ludicrously bad difficulty curve. The speed of the game was not an inherent part of that - in fact, the main problem was the bullshit level design, much of which would be unfair even at Genesis-era pacing. There's nothing particularly wrong with making a Sonic game based around sheer, ridiculous speed (because let's face it, he is the literal gaming icon of speed and didn't get that title by ambling about the place), but common sense dictates that level design should accomodate for it - which in Unleashed's case, would have not required you to react to (often fatal) obstacles faster than an average human being can actually react under such duress. I think it goes without saying that's exactly what Unleashed failed to accomplish.

Whatever the case, Rush/Unleashed levels of speed are perfectly acceptable under the condition that the game doesn't hinder or punish it unnecessarily - 4 times out of 5 when it does, the level design is at far greater fault than the raw speed factor is. I mean really now, when you turn a blind corner into a death pit at the speed of sound, you kinda have to wonder what the fuck it was doing there in the first place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, and no.

a percentage of people get so picky about little things in Sonic games and about how they're not like they used to be. Some points are actually not that picky, such as how some people hate the werehog levels and wish they would be absent. Others complain that you play as other characters, or that the game is 3D instead of sidescrolling. I've even heard people complain about how Sonic moves too fast in some games.

This kind of comes off as "When I don't like it it's a valid complaint but when I do like it it's pointless nitpicking".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having actually participated in said bitchstorm, I'll have you know that the only thing we really proved was that Unleashed had a ludicrously bad difficulty curve. The speed of the game was not an inherent part of that - in fact, the main problem was the bullshit level design, much of which would be unfair even at Genesis-era pacing. There's nothing particularly wrong with making a Sonic game based around sheer, ridiculous speed (because let's face it, he is the literal gaming icon of speed and didn't get that title by ambling about the place), but common sense dictates that level design should accomodate for it - which in Unleashed's case, would have not required you to react to (often fatal) obstacles faster than an average human being can actually react under such duress. I think it goes without saying that's exactly what Unleashed failed to accomplish.

Whatever the case, Rush/Unleashed levels of speed are perfectly acceptable under the condition that the game doesn't hinder or punish it unnecessarily - 4 times out of 5 when it does, the level design is at far greater fault than the raw speed factor is. I mean really now, when you turn a blind corner into a death pit at the speed of sound, you kinda have to wonder what the fuck it was doing there in the first place.

I'm sorry to burst you two guy's bubbles, but "going too fast" is a perfectly valid gameplay complaint, particularly when it goes hand in hand the Dimp's usual fallback of "really fucking cheap enemy placement" and "non-OSHA-complaint level design." It isn't automatically a result of people simply being picky for the sake of complaining.
Edited by Tornado
Link to comment
Share on other sites

yo dawg i heard u liek quotes so I put a quote in my quote so u can read while u read
I was arguing that speed can actually be tolerable without the same incredibly bad hazard placement you just mentioned, not that it wasn't a valid complaint. Not that misquoting the debate you were citing as evidence really helped.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then, forgive me, but I'm not quite sure what your point was. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you were trying to say, but I said "going too fast is a problem when paired with shitty level design or cheap enemy placement, and therefore a valid complaint to make." Lunar said "cheap enemy placement wasn't a problem because it is a valid way of adding difficulty." I said, "yeah, it sorta isn't because of *Unleashed Topic*." Then you said "*Unleashed Topic* only proved that speed is a problem when the enemy placement and level design are cheap." Which is exactly what I said.

So... what?

Edited by Tornado
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then, forgive me, but I'm not quite sure what your point was. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you were trying to say, but I said "going too fast is a problem when paired with shitty level design or cheap enemy placement, and therefore a valid complaint to make." Lunar said "cheap enemy placement wasn't a problem because it is a valid way of adding difficulty." I said, "yeah, it sorta isn't because of *Unleashed Topic*." Then you said "*Unleashed Topic* only proved that speed is a problem when the enemy placement and level design are cheap." Which is exactly what I said.

So... what?

I simply said "what would/could you expect?" The game isn't going to enemy-less. It's only obvious Sega/Dimps is going to put an enemy here or there, despite level design being good or bad. I never said it added difficulty nor implied, just common sense.

Edited by Lunar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I simply said "what would/could you expect?" The game isn't going to enemy-less. It's only obvious Sega/Dimps is going to put an enemy here or there, despite level design being good or bad. I never said it added difficulty nor implied, just common sense.

Then mayhaps they should slow it downa few MPH so players can more accurately react to threats, or give us better controls or something.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then mayhaps they should slow it downa few MPH so players can more accurately react to threats, or give us better controls or something.

Don't take it up with me, talk to Sega....oh wait...........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then mayhaps they should slow it downa few MPH so players can more accurately react to threats, or give us better controls or something.

Either that or better level design, because honestly it was pretty sorry in Unleashed...and this coming from a guy who likes the game.

Or not make the game reliant on reflexes and QTEs, because they would kill you at the worst moments on the simplest screw-ups (i.e. Eggmanland, and I don't want to hear any arguments on how challenging it was suppose to make it, the main point I'm making is that it was cheap).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then, forgive me, but I'm not quite sure what your point was. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you were trying to say, but I said "going too fast is a problem when paired with shitty level design or cheap enemy placement, and therefore a valid complaint to make." Lunar said "cheap enemy placement wasn't a problem because it is a valid way of adding difficulty." I said, "yeah, it sorta isn't because of *Unleashed Topic*." Then you said "*Unleashed Topic* only proved that speed is a problem when the enemy placement and level design are cheap." Which is exactly what I said.

So... what?

I must've been misreading myself, because I was under the impression you were against the speed factor alone as opposed to speed mixed with unsuitable level design. If it weren't for that, the speed in Unleashed would be no less down to personal preference than Burnout Paradise. In that case I guess I'm agreeing with you. My only real problem was the misquoting of *Unleashed topic*, which was more down to determining the fake difficulty of the game (which speed isn't inherently a problem with, really) than anything else.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does Dr. Eggman's name really matter? I remember before Sonic Adventure came out, people with Sonic websites always referred to Robotnik as Eggman and never used the word 'Mobius' because they thought it was cool to follow the Japanese 'origins' for whatever reason (though Robotnik technically came first, by a month or two), yet now that they've switched to sync up with the Japanese 'canon' we want the other one back. Was anybody pissed that New Super Mario Bros. Wii didn't call Bowser 'King Koopa'?

I just can't hold it back anymore...

Dr. Eggman was *not* his first name people!

The European and American versions of Sonic the Hedgehog came out a few days before the Japanese one. Therefore, his first name *was* Robotnik

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmmm, Sonic Unleashed is tricky to explain. Probably the most significant problem that really held the game back was that levels were not designed as environments so much as they were designed as a series of events. This sort of mentality is evident all over the game, how the timer keeps running when you die, how the engine's main reason for existing was to load data quickly (and how it seems to unload it the moment it no longer needs it), how simply turning around in certain parts of certain levels will essentially break the game, and how Sonic controls.

Oh, how Sonic controls.

First off, he can barely turn at any sort of speed, usually leaving such things up to the level. For whatever reason, they also chose to make unintentionally shooting off to your death a thing that's very easy to do (making jumping in a performer a risky maneuverer? Seriously?). This combination of keeping the player on a storyboard and leading them around by the level really leaves only one "knob" to adjust difficulty, Which is basically how long the player has to react to oncoming threats. If a player has enough time to spot and react the first time, there's no real game (There is only Hallrunner). The challenge cannot be altered by more complex enemies or enemy patterns (Sonic just runs through them, and or they just become another reaction test), cannot be reasonably required to navigate a more physically complex area (Because Sonic can barely turn), and cannot be given some sort of powerup (This one was apparently by choice of the designers).

I've heard all the arguments about how you're supposed to go slowly through the levels the first time, but that doesn't really fly because of how that's a great way to die from not having enough speed. If this hypothetical player needs enough time that unboosted speed still presents a reasonable challenge, they will have likely drown before they can realize that they are sinking, or if they do realize in time, boost erratically and hit something and die anyway. Water isn't even the only thing that can kill you for not having enough speed or not reacting quickly enough, Egg Fighters can actually do something, those little floating guns will have little trouble hitting you, or you might simply not have enough speed to clear a gorge.

A typical game has challenges and thought processes much more complex than this. For example, when faced with a new object in most games, you will typically want to observe it somehow. Whether this is by throwing yourself at it and seeing what happens, or studying it from a distance doesn't really matter terribly much, the though process is going to be similar. If it's an enemy or other hazard, you will study it's movements and patterns, and figure out how it's going to try and hurt you and how you can harm it. This doesn't exist in Sonic Unleashed, all you're doing is finding an additional spot along the timeline where the level designer decided the player should probably do something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I must've been misreading myself, because I was under the impression you were against the speed factor alone as opposed to speed mixed with unsuitable level design. If it weren't for that, the speed in Unleashed would be no less down to personal preference than Burnout Paradise. In that case I guess I'm agreeing with you. My only real problem was the misquoting of *Unleashed topic*, which was more down to determining the fake difficulty of the game (which speed isn't inherently a problem with, really) than anything else.

To be fair, the way I originally wrote it was pretty iffy. I was trying to go for "going too fast is a problem when enemy placement or level design are cheap, and especially when both are," and I guess it came out as "going too fast is a problem by itself, but cheap enemy placement and level design only make it worse."

Edited by Tornado
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just can't hold it back anymore...

Dr. Eggman was *not* his first name people!

The European and American versions of Sonic the Hedgehog came out a few days before the Japanese one. Therefore, his first name *was* Robotnik

Ignoring other facts towards the origin of his name...Did you read the entire post? The person you're replying to said that Robotnik came first (though with a different time frame).

Does Dr. Eggman's name really matter? I remember before Sonic Adventure came out, people with Sonic websites always referred to Robotnik as Eggman and never used the word 'Mobius' because they thought it was cool to follow the Japanese 'origins' for whatever reason (though Robotnik technically came first, by a month or two), yet now that they've switched to sync up with the Japanese 'canon' we want the other one back. Was anybody pissed that New Super Mario Bros. Wii didn't call Bowser 'King Koopa'?

Not that it matters either way.

Edited by Ekaje
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just can't hold it back anymore...

Dr. Eggman was *not* his first name people!

The European and American versions of Sonic the Hedgehog came out a few days before the Japanese one. Therefore, his first name *was* Robotnik

Here's a funfact:

They refer to the same character, so instead of making an issue out of something that insignificant, save yourself the trouble and call him what you prefer.

Whether his name is Eggman, Eggbelly, Robotnik, whatever, we all know who the hell you're talking about. :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just can't hold it back anymore...

Dr. Eggman was *not* his first name people!

The European and American versions of Sonic the Hedgehog came out a few days before the Japanese one. Therefore, his first name *was* Robotnik

Naoto Ōshima's concept art sheets refer to him as "Eggman". His name was Eggman since conception, placing that even before either release of Sonic the Hedgehog.

So yeah.

Edited by HunterTSF
  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Naoto Ōshima's concept art sheets refer to him as "Eggman". His name was Eggman since conception, placing that even before either release of Sonic the Hedgehog.

So yeah.

Touche'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's a funfact:

They refer to the same character, so instead of making an issue out of something that insignificant, save yourself the trouble and call him what you prefer.

Whether his name is Eggman, Eggbelly, Robotnik, whatever, we all know who the hell you're talking about. :rolleyes:

I can't help but wonder if you actually think anyone doesn't know this and why that would matter when the debate was never over the character, just the name.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't help but wonder if you actually think anyone doesn't know this and why that would matter when the debate was never over the character, just the name.

I can't help but wonder if you understand what he meant was that they're all the names of the same charecter, so it doesn't really matter. also do you understand sarcasm

I also can't help but also wonder why it's a big deal. He's called "Ivo 'Eggman' Robotnik" they don't hide that. He just uses his nickname more, and for good reason. Eggman sounds like an evil super villain. Robotnik sounds like a nerd with too many 'helper' maids.

Edited by Nathan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't help but wonder if you actually think anyone doesn't know this and why that would matter when the debate was never over the character, just the name.

No offense, but if you were paying attention, I *was* talking about the name, not over the character.

Either way it goes it doesn't matter if they realize it, the point is that the names don't matter. So it makes no sense for anyone to waste that much energy over why his name should be (or whether his first name was) Robotnik and not Eggman. It's even more pointless when it can be solved in one easy step that causes no problem whatsoever.

Eggman sounds like an evil super villain.

I actually called him Eggman over Robotnik due to him naming almost all of his machines with the word "Egg" in it rather than it being an evil name. Seriously, he's the only fictional character to make the name "Egg" sound badass on a machine.

But still, it's not like it matters either way. They both sound ridiculous. :P

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

robotnik = villianous cold war ish sounding mechanical mastermind russian scientist-y villian name

eggman = errr a man with the form of an egg? : |

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.