Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks

[SuperLink]

Well I finished the game. I did everything there is to do in the game except the rabbit collection sidequest. I have my golden train and all the hearts. The lead up to the final battle is really great. I'd say it's close to being as epic as the final battle in TP. I LOVED this game! It's leagues better then PH and it's easily my favorite handheld Zelda. I think I even like it more then some of the console Zeldas.

I love it, don't get me wrong, but at this point I don't see it beating the Oracle games or Minish Cap. Reused dungeon music, lack of freedom on the overworld, and notsogreat original characters (although Cole and Staven are good characters I guess)

Also I'm 100% fully disappointed at the reuse of Anouki and FUCKING GORONS. Seriously, I liked Gorons, but they've been in EVERY Zelda since OoT, and we haven't seen the Ritos in fucking ages!!

Sorry. I didn't realize that's how the anti-piracy works. I expected something like suddenly freezing the game or something, not just remove game fuctions in front of your face. I didn't realized it was the anti-piracy!!

This is why we buy games D:

[speedfreak]

I love it, don't get me wrong, but at this point I don't see it beating the Oracle games or Minish Cap. Reused dungeon music, lack of freedom on the overworld, and notsogreat original characters (although Cole and Staven are good characters I guess)

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I also think TP blows WW away while some people feel the opposite. All Zelda games are pretty great in the end though. So if I prefer this, while you prefer that, I don't think it really matters.

Cool little thing I noticed.

The ending slightly changes depending on the answer you give when Zelda when she asks you if you'll be an engineer, warrior, or don't know when the final battle is over. First I said don't know and she only looks out the window at the end. Next I said warrior and while Zelda was sitting at her desk she heard swords clashing. She got up to she what was going on and she noticed it was Link training with someone. She called out to Link and waved hello to him, which I guess caused him to be distracted because you hear him get hit. Then Zelda gets an "Oops" look on her face.

It was pretty funny. I haven't seen the engineer ending yet though.

Edited December 18, 2009 by speedfreak

[SuperLink]

Right, I finished the main story two nights ago and just thismorning I finished getting all the Heart Containers (darn Beedle). I also finished the third battle challenge at castle town

the bonus boss was a nice surprise!

I have also finished all the sidequests (+ a shiny gold train!) except the rabbit hunting (really dunno if I can be bothered with it >>) and I don't know if I'll need to take Zelda's Teacher anywhere else on the train but I can't seem to find him anywhere.

So impressions time!

Generally I'm overwhelmed, I expected Spirit Tracks to be Phantom Hourglass with a layer of frosting, but I was sorely mistaken. It was everything I hoped Phantom Hourglass would be.

- Gameplay is generally awesome and fun

- Puzzles are amazing, for me they're probably the best in the series

- Music was great, especially the overworld music and the boss themes

- Story was also great, unexpectedly considering it's an original villain. Sure the villain himself wasn't great, but everything in between definitely was, and the character development Link and Zelda share is a great first for the series.

- Loads of references to WW/PH, something that PH, a direct sequel, couldn't even do as well.

- Bosses were all fun. Every single one.

- Lots of nice little easter eggs (especially the presents Niko gives you)

- The hidden stations are sometimes awesome

- Nice wealth of sidequests

- The ending was just awesome.

That's all my pros. Here are my cons:

- Not happy with the reuse of dungeon music, or the fact there are only 5 short dungeons + Spirit Tower. Capcom would have put in atleast 6 and had each dungeon with original music that was awesome.

- Lack of fanservice. Capcom's games are filled with the stuff. I would have loved to see Malon or the Oracles with cameos in Cel Shaded graphics.

- No trade sequence? And on top of that no secret weapons or tunics with special abilities.

- It takes fucking forever to do ANYTHING. Teleporting should be easier, or you should REALLY be able to speed up your train. Seriously. Wtf. Atleast Train is more fun than boat.

Overall I am glad to call this a strong entry to the series (unlike PH), and I can't wait for the inevitable third game in the DS series. I just hope it keeps the Phantom mechanic and makes overworld travel even less frustrating. And has lots of fanservice.

Would probably give it atleast a 9/10.

[PSI Wind]

^ Im sorry, but could you stop comparing this game to the Capcom games. Besides, Minish Cap was good, but it had a TERRIBLE hit detection, no invincibility when hit, and the faries only healed 4 hearts. It was also easy. Also, you complain how slow the train is, but you also complain about no trading sequences. Does.Not.Compute

[SuperLink]

^ Im sorry, but could you stop comparing this game to the Capcom games. Besides, Minish Cap was good, but it had a TERRIBLE hit detection, no invincibility when hit, and the faries only healed 4 hearts. It was also easy. Also, you complain how slow the train is, but you also complain about no trading sequences. Does.Not.Compute

I'm comparing them because to me, it does.not.compute that the NEW 2D Zeldas are WORSE than the old ones. I am merely identifying where things can be easily improved. Minish Cap has its strengths and weaknesses, but so does this. All I'm doing is suggesting they put all those strength together.

- I never noticed any problems with hit detection.

- What does the train and trading sequences have to do with each other? I enjoy trading sequences. Especially the ones in OoT and the Oracle games, they always have awesome prizes at the end.

- The game is easy anyway right? So why is no invincibility when hit a bad thing? It's called adaptive difficulty.

- Also the characters in Minish Cap were fucking awesome, especially Vaati, Ezlo and the Minish race.

I would understand if you said "stop comparing this to Halo 3!" But I'm not IGN so I won't be doing that, but I'm comparing it to another title with very similar gameplay mechanics. And you can't stop me just because it's true.

[-Mark-]

Finished the main story yesterday, just working on sidequests etc now. Certainly like it much, much more than PH, which I found to be rather unspectacular filler in every sense.

I still think that something seems 'missing' in the DS Zelda games, though. Whilst Spirit Tracks is unquestionably a good game, I can't help but feel Minish Cap felt much more 'proper' as a Zelda title. In the DS games, the towns are usually rather threadbare and devoid of life- not many people around, nobody to talk to- whereas Minish Cap's castle town was vibrant, bustling and generally full of life.

It's atmosphere more than anything that the DS games feel to be lacking, for me. The lack of a proper 'Hyrule Field' overworld breaks things up a bit, too. Would be nice for them to have a proper walkable field again, I'm personally finding the whole 'means of transport' thing to be getting a bit stale now. Not that I dislike the train bits, I'd just like to be able to have a big open field again. I don't like having everything feel so amazingly detached from everything else, which they can do so long as Link has a boat/ train/ whatever.

[SuperLink]

Whilst Spirit Tracks is unquestionably a good game, I can't help but feel Minish Cap felt much more 'proper' as a Zelda title. In the DS games, the towns are usually rather threadbare and devoid of life- not many people around, nobody to talk to- whereas Minish Cap's castle town was vibrant, bustling and generally full of life.

Exactly!

I'm personally finding the whole 'means of transport' thing to be getting a bit stale now. Not that I dislike the train bits, I'd just like to be able to have a big open field again. I don't like having everything feel so amazingly detached from everything else, which they can do so long as Link has a boat/ train/ whatever.

Agree. If I'm right and this is to be a trilogy of DS games about Phantoms and Force Gems (perhaps leading up to the Four Swords arc? It'd be awesome if we started to see some connections...), then maybe they're building up to something important? Boats, Steam Boats, then Trains, technology in that world is advancing quite nicely. We could end up with an awesome Steampunk Zelda on our hands, or maybe Nintendo will come up with a new way to control horseback? Or what other vehicle could they choose next? I just hope they don't do the train again... not as a central game mechanic anyway. Maybe an airship? Who knows. The future of the series will certainly be interesting so long as they keep trying new ideas.

Edited December 22, 2009 by SuperLink

[-Mark-]

I can't help but feel that the Zelda series (in particular the handheld ones) have been simplifying more and more since Wind Waker and Minish Cap.

I mean, removal of the magic meter (and the whole element of magic use for items), fewer and fewer items (again, the DS games are the biggest culprits here), and again in the DS games, dropping the concept of collecting heart pieces in favour of simply getting full heart containers.

Again, by no means do I think any of the recent Zelda games have been bad, it's just that in the last half-decade or so, they've gradually been changing and simplifying in these small ways that, now, at the end of 2009, make them feel like something's missing, at least to me. It feels like the series is on the verge of moving away from what makes it Zelda.

The DS games have also had no new sword techniques you can learn as you go along. I dunno, I guess it's just a lot of small things, but it does feel to me like Wind Waker and Minish Cap were the two last 'proper' (in a classic sense) Zelda games (and even Minish Cap didn't have a magic meter). At least Spirit Tracks feels much more like a proper Wind Waker sequel than Phantom Hourglass ever did. Bellum, indeed. Ten minutes, indeed. Filler! *scoffs*

I did like how ST had a few sly nods to even OoT, though. Namely sneaking Zelda out of the courtyard at the start and

the last boss, which reeked of OoT in setting

both felt very OoT-influenced.

Oh, and turbo-boosting your super-charged train through that dark realm place is the most epic win ever. That bit reeks of Super Sonic in how it plays, made me smile very much. It's a real shame you can't get those kind of god-train powers in the main overworld as a final reward.

Edited December 22, 2009 by Mahzes

[SuperLink]

I'm not sure I agree with Zelda not being Zelda anymore. I mean I definitely think the DS games have been far more simplified and shortened and stuff compared to earlier 2D games, but the lack of magic meter isn't to blame, that's just so they can focus on other things. The magic meter will be back, you can count on it. I consider TP to be just as much a Zelda title as WW, maybe more.

I think it's because Nintendo themselves purposefully aren't taking development of the DS titles as seriously as the development of the 3D titles. I mean that's a given, it's as plain as day, but it's not right. The DS titles need almost as much, if not as much focus as the 3D titles. They need to be huge, epic, they need to be full Zelda games that aren't just a few areas and tiny dungeons strung together with an onrails world map.

Basically Zelda DS is Zelda for casuals. One not so good, and the other being one of those amazing casual titles that hardcore gamers love too, but in the end it's still a casual game.

This isn't the ideal middleground for the series though. Difficulty modes could be implemented for beginners, and the games should definitely be getting longer, not shorter. I did like that there were lots of original items in ST (PH just using a few of the bare basic Zelda standard items and nothing more...) but 6 items and only being able to use 1 item at once is... weak.

Oh, and turbo-boosting your super-charged train through that dark realm place is the most epic win ever. That bit reeks of Super Sonic in how it plays, made me smile very much.

That was awesome, you really should be able to do that all the time ._.

[DarkOverord]

I completed this yesterday. Ending is Love <3

But this comment "I think it's because Nintendo themselves purposefully aren't taking development of the DS titles as seriously as the development of the 3D titles." Nintendo have always done that. Their handheld ventures that aren't Mario Platformers are full of mocking themselves, as proven by the Leet Hammer Bros. in Mario and Luigi, and in this game, some of the dialogue with the Phantoms "I WANT TO BE A WRECKER WHEN I GROW UP". I know people say Minish Cap was more like a Zelda game, but even THAT took the mick out of itself. I don't think it's Nintendo penning in casual support there, I mean, Spirit Tracks actually stumped me a few times, and if it was, it would've happened on the Wii. Wait, Link's Crossbow Training :B I'm willing to accept the DS games aren't "Proper Zelda", so long as the 3D ones are at least.

[SuperLink]

But this comment "I think it's because Nintendo themselves purposefully aren't taking development of the DS titles as seriously as the development of the 3D titles." Nintendo have always done that. Their handheld ventures that aren't Mario Platformers are full of mocking themselves, as proven by the Leet Hammer Bros. in Mario and Luigi, and in this game, some of the dialogue with the Phantoms "I WANT TO BE A WRECKER WHEN I GROW UP". I know people say Minish Cap was more like a Zelda game, but even THAT took the mick out of itself. I don't think it's Nintendo penning in casual support there, I mean, Spirit Tracks actually stumped me a few times, and if it was, it would've happened on the Wii. Wait, Link's Crossbow Training :B I'm willing to accept the DS games aren't "Proper Zelda", so long as the 3D ones are at least.

The thing is though Minish Cap made full use of the GBA's abilities, Nintendo made PH/ST stupid short on purpose, because it wasn't a 3D Zelda, they didn't do all they could with it. They were purposefully half assed. Yes I know the puzzles were great and it was really hard at times, but what about the overworld? It was that way because Nintendo wanted a way to lengthen the game. Without the overworld the game would be over in a few hours.

THAT'S what I'm talking about. Even with nothing to artificially lengthen the game, the GB Zelda games were much longer. I wasn't even talking about taking the mick, that's completely irrelevant. A full console Zelda can be the funniest self parodying game in the world and I still wouldn't mind as long as it's a full and long experience.

Edited December 31, 2009 by SuperLink

[DarkOverord]

The thing is though Minish Cap made full use of the GBA's abilities, Nintendo made PH/ST stupid short on purpose, because it wasn't a 3D Zelda, they didn't do all they could with it. They were purposefully half assed. Yes I know the puzzles were great and it was really hard at times, but what about the overworld? It was that way because Nintendo wanted a way to lengthen the game. Without the overworld the game would be over in a few hours.

THAT'S what I'm talking about. Even with nothing to artificially lengthen the game, the GB Zelda games were much longer. I wasn't even talking about taking the mick, that's completely irrelevant. A full console Zelda can be the funniest self parodying game in the world and I still wouldn't mind as long as it's a full and long experience.

I'm not too sure on "Stupid Short", Minish Cap wasn't that long either, took me about the same time as Phantom Hourglass. And by the 3rd Dungeon you pretty much skipped the overworld with the Pegasus Shoes. However, I do agree with you there, Nintendo aren't making full use of the DS, No Nintendo WFC capabilities for example. That would've been fun being able to battle and trade items online >:

And it does nark me that even in PH, in a world SURROUNDED by water. You couldn't swim...

[Solly]

I enjoyed it quite a bit. It's actually risen to be one of my favorites. The game's a bit harder than Phantom Hourglass, and MUCH harder than Twilight Princess(which, let's face it, was a cakewalk) and it had some really good bosses, overworlds and dungeon puzzles, which were a lot better too. It's just all around superior to its predecessor. And it was very atmospheric, with great music and exquisite cutscene choreography for the DS.

There are a few things that needed improvement though, namely a few control issues, Zelda's pickiness when drawing her a line to move on, as well as areas where you're simply in the dark. There was some slowdown too which got annoying, but it didn't really detract from the experience. Also, train rides were a lot longer than they needed to be.

As for the length- I felt it was fine. The story was shorter than most, but I'd say in terms of sidequests there's more to see. It didn't feel too drawn out or that it was over too quickly, but that might be because it was never ending when I expected it too.

Edited December 31, 2009 by The Soldier

[speedfreak]

Without the overworld the game would be over in a few hours.

Ummm, couldn't the same thing be said for any Zelda? I mean I agree the overworlds in WW, PH, and ST were more tedious then anything, but the point you're trying to make here is a bit odd IMO.

Edited December 31, 2009 by speedfreak

[SuperLink]

Ummm, couldn't the same thing be said for any Zelda? I mean I agree the overworlds in WW, PH, and ST were more tedious then anything, but the point you're trying to make here is a bit odd IMO.

PH/ST's overworlds are empty though, the overworlds of most Zeldas are filled with little caves, enemies (that actually require a little skill to beat), new places to go to when you have new items.

They're just not comparable. Which overworld do you honestly prefer? The overworlds full of life with many methods of traversing it, or an empty overworld that is really no more complex than draw a line from A to B and wait it out?

The overworlds from PH/ST are effortless attempts to artificially lengthen the game.

[-Mark-]

Whew... I'm still slogging away, aiming for 100% completion.

Got a gold train, every rabbit and heart container. Unless you want to be annoying and count every treasure chest (I'm not), all I have left to do are getting every train part (need seven more) and the Diamond Card from Beedle.

Is it just me, or do white pearl loops seem to be stupidly, stupidly rare, despite the fact they're not supposed to be?

[speedfreak]

PH/ST's overworlds are empty though, the overworlds of most Zeldas are filled with little caves, enemies (that actually require a little skill to beat), new places to go to when you have new items.

They're just not comparable. Which overworld do you honestly prefer? The overworlds full of life with many methods of traversing it, or an empty overworld that is really no more complex than draw a line from A to B and wait it out?

The overworlds from PH/ST are effortless attempts to artificially lengthen the game.

Oh yeah I know what you mean. Yes, I prefer the overworlds seen in LTTP, OOT, MM, TP, etc. over the WW, PH, ST style of overworlds. My point however was that removing the overworld from ANY of the games would make them short lived adventures. I wasn't referring to overworld quality at all.

The sailing/train riding was cool at first, but after a while it got really tedious. It got to the point where I wish I could have just warped straight from town to town. I believe the train overworld would have benefited from being a console game though. Being able to get out and explore on foot as well as driving the train would have made it a lot more interesting. The ocean overworld was cool and really epic at first, but I got REALLY bored of seeing nothing but blue. Plus there is no way to get out and just explore for a while when you are surrounded by water.

It was an interesting experiment, but personally I hope we have seen the last of the WW, PH, ST style of overworlds.

[SuperLink]

Oh yeah I know what you mean. Yes, I prefer the overworlds seen in LTTP, OOT, MM, TP, etc. over the WW, PH, ST style of overworlds. My point however was that removing the overworld from ANY of the games would make them short lived adventures. I wasn't referring to overworld quality at all.

Which wasn't my own point. If you removed the overworlds from most Zelda games it would not only make them drastically shorter, but make them worse games in general. Going out onto the overworld on MM or TP is fun to just ride around and fight enemies etc. I honestly can't say I would miss the WW/PH/ST overworlds though, they're not "fun".

It was an interesting experiment, but personally I hope we have seen the last of the WW, PH, ST style of overworlds.

Amen.

[DarkOverord]

Is it just me, or do white pearl loops seem to be stupidly, stupidly rare, despite the fact they're not supposed to be?

I have 12, but only 1 Black Pearl.

[speedfreak]

I used the pirate mini-game to get all the treasure I needed. Higher score = better prize. So try messing around with your scores to see what score you need to get for pearl loops.

[Cyberblade]

Spirit Tracks is the best DS Zelda game, Phantom Hourglass can't hold a candle to it. I've only got one tiny complaint.

The Spirit Flute fucking sucks.

It's a neat novelty, and for simple songs it does alright, but as soon as you get past the simple songs and into the duets later in the game that have you jump notes be prepared for a world of hurt.

I'm currently on the last boss which has a duet section with Zelda, and it seriously tempts me into breaking a game system out of frustration for the first time ever. I've hit every note absolutely perfectly with no double notes, breaks, or misses and it still claims I fail again, and again, and again.

How Nintendo released the game with the Spirit Flute in such a state I don't know. So much experience putting musical instruments in Zelda games and they fuck up the one with the most potential to feel realistic.

Otherwise the puzzles were a lot more fun (and less hand holding ftw), the train >>>> boat by far, and it's been an overall great game. The duets are a horrible blemish on Zelda's musical track record.

Edit:

Finally got past that final Zelda duet. It took...an hour and forty minutes for the game to recognize it despite it being played flawlessly a million times. Seriously, the duets are way too picky on the performance.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Cyberblade

[-Mark-]

Oh god yes, the spirit pipes. HELL ON EARTH. Or Hyrule. Whatever. Simple tunes are no problem, but when they want you to keep skipping over notes, it's hell.

If you ask me, they're just way too demanding in regards to the timing.

As for Pearl Loops... I have loads of the Dark Pearl Loops, and no White ones. The whites seem to be stupidly, stupidly rare for me. I'm using the Lost at Sea island's mini-dungeon to get treasure.

[Jetronic]

 Judging by the game's take on the shiny new instrument, I'm guessing I'm the only one who only had to do the duets 2-4 times.

(3 just to hear the song from one point of view and 4 because sometimes I was being called right before the duet was over >_>, or even 5 because I just plain Fudged up)

[DarkOverord]

The Spirit Flute fucking sucks.

It's a neat novelty, and for simple songs it does alright, but as soon as you get past the simple songs and into the duets later in the game that have you jump notes be prepared for a world of hurt.

I'm currently on the last boss which has a duet section with Zelda, and it seriously tempts me into breaking a game system out of frustration for the first time ever. I've hit every note absolutely perfectly with no double notes, breaks, or misses and it still claims I fail again, and again, and again.

How Nintendo released the game with the Spirit Flute in such a state I don't know. So much experience putting musical instruments in Zelda games and they fuck up the one with the most potential to feel realistic.

The thing about the Spirit Flute is that it's a little too sensitive. Though Zelda's Duet isn't too bad actually. But one thing you gotta remember is the timing! Which again, Zelda's isn't too bad, specially seen as Zelda's first two parts are your part too, and remember to use the metronome in the background, and start when Zelda indicates you to :3 Rael's however, Oh dear god...

As for Pearl Loops... I have loads of the Dark Pearl Loops, and no White ones. The whites seem to be stupidly, stupidly rare for me. I'm using the Lost at Sea island's mini-dungeon to get treasure.

Lost at Sea Station, how to get rich quick :V

 Judging by the game's take on the shiny new instrument, I'm guessing I'm the only one who only had to do the duets 2-4 times.

(3 just to hear the song from one point of view and 4 because sometimes I was being called right before the duet was over >_>, or even 5 because I just plain Fudged up)

Dunno, I spent about 15-40 minutes on Rael's and Embrose's. However, Steem, Carben, Gage's and as I said earlier, Zelda. No. Hell, Zelda's I managed to get done on my third try, and this is meant to be the hardest? IT was rather simple :3

[-Mark-]

I only had problems with the spirit pipes on Zelda's and.. the fire guy (can't remember his name) tunes. Less so with Zelda's, but I still had trouble.

None of them ever took me more than say, 5-10 minutes, though.