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What I don't understand is...

How hasn't this Eggman Vs Tails debate been settled by the canonical fact that they both have the same IQ?

Tails is 8, which might explain why he hasn't created anything as supermegaamazing as old-Eggman has (just a hunch!), but unless Tails has an untimely death, Eggman will die of old age at some point and Tails will continue living, building even greater things than Eggman did in his lifetime simply because of the progression in technology.

Those arguing that Eggman is smarter than Gerald are also arguing that Tails is smarter than Eggman. Eggman arguably only beats Gerald because his technology use has a 50 year advantage. Tails will have a similar advantage eventually.

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How hasn't this Eggman Vs Tails debate been settled by the canonical fact that they both have the same IQ?

That's pretty much my point. Tails and Eggman have the exact same intelligence level. Just because Tails is eight means nothing for intelligence, just what he makes.

actually, because he's only eight, when he gets OLDER eventually he'll surpass every other character, even Eggman.

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What I don't understand is...

How hasn't this Eggman Vs Tails debate been settled by the canonical fact that they both have the same IQ?

Just wondering, where has this been stated?

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Just wondering, where has this been stated?

Buh, I actually think it was in a manual somewhere, not to mention it's just one of them facts you just kinda pick up. I'll figure out where it is, I know it's somewhere.

EDIT: Sonic Adventure 2 manual I think. I'll check mine in the morning.

Edited by AMERICA

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Yes, because an 8 year old on the GOOD SIDE will break into banks 'n shit for cash. Yes. That is SO like Tails. He'll break into places out of curiosity, or to save his friends, but not to STEAL. He's not an ass.

But curiosity and/or a noble goal doesn't always justify his means, if you don't believe me ask that to GUN when he destroyed all of Prision Lane just because he "believes" Sonic is innocent (SA2). Or when he hijacked a super secret goverment database just to find more information about a robot (Sonic Battle).

...

Having said that, I think Sonic is being greatly underestimated in this list... Let's start with a quick lecture in wikipedia (way to proove my own intelligence *lolcano flying in the roflcopter*)

Scientists have proposed two major “consensus” definitions of intelligence:

(i) from Mainstream Science on Intelligence (1994), a report by fifty-two researchers:

A very general mental capability that, among other things, involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly and learn from experience. It is not merely book learning, a narrow academic skill, or test-taking smarts. Rather, it reflects a broader and deeper capability for comprehending our surroundings — “catching on”, “making sense” of things, or “figuring out” what to do.

(ii) from Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns (1995), a report published by the Board of Scientific Affairs of the American Psychological Association:

Individuals differ from one another in their ability to understand complex ideas, to adapt effectively to the environment, to learn from experience, to engage in various forms of reasoning, [and] to overcome obstacles by taking thought. Although these individual differences can be substantial, they are never entirely consistent: a given person’s intellectual performance will vary on different occasions, in different domains, as judged by different criteria. Concepts of “intelligence” are attempts to clarify and organize this complex set of phenomena. Although considerable clarity has been achieved in some areas, no such conceptualization has yet answered all the important questions, and none commands universal assent. Indeed, when two dozen prominent theorists were recently asked to define intelligence, they gave two dozen, somewhat different, definitions.

"Catching on", "Making sense", "Figuring out", well, that sounds pretty much like Sonic to me:

He just needs a little piece of advice to already know how to master such complex matters like "the way of the sword", he knows to pilot planes, heavy battleship armament, waterbikes, cars, extreme gears (he learned to do this in the very same moment he saw one, with no advice at all), heck, he even knows how to use chaos control, I'm pretty sure that if Eggman made a shceme involving chess, he would learn to play it, and he would beat him. :P

He has also an hability to come with quick plans to defeat the most brilliant of eggman's invention/schemes (like when he tried to trick Eggman with the fake emmerald in SA2, too bad Tails blew up everything).

It's a shame that Sonic couldn't care less about science. :(

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It says in both the SA2 and SH manuals that he has mechanical skill equalling that of Eggman. I'm fairly certain his IQ is mentioned at some point in one of the manuals too.

I think the only time Tails' IQ has been mentioned was in the names of his standard attacks in Sonic Battle (which some people took as evidence to say that he was smarter than Eggman :P)

But in terms of actual intelligence, I like to believe that there is a decent gap between Eggman and Tails, otherwise it sorta lessens one of Eggman's most defining traits as a villianous character. Not to mention it making Tails seem a bit over-powered since he has his own ability to fly on top of some of the best attributes of both Sonic (speed and agility) and Eggman (brains).

But as for an actual ranking amoung some of the regular characters, I'd say

Super Genius

1. Dr. Eggman - It goes without saying that after all the various plans, deadly robot models and powerful mechas over the years that he knows a thing or two. My personal favourite thing he has done always using the Egg-Mobile as a standard control scheme for most other inventions (meaning he doesn't need to re-learn control sets).

2. Eggman Nega - A (possible) chip off the old block, not hampered with trying to preserve the planet. Only held back because he's more interested in destruction.

3. Professor Gerald - A revoultionary scientist of his time, though it isn't clear how much help he may have recieved from the other scientists on board the Ark.

Genius

4. Metal Sonic - he was able to properly conceal his identity from everyone while keeping command over Eggman's Empire after usurping it

5. Tails - as mentioned, he's repaired and built planes, amoung other little gadgets, and is usually the one to piece together Eggman's plots.

Smart

6. Wave - Skilled engineer of Extreme Gear and rather devious and under-handed, but not much else to note.

7. Rouge - Down-right manipulative when she wants to be, not to mention being a skilled spy and jewel theif

8. Blaze - Figure-head of a whole other world and protector of powerful artifacts, not jobs for the weak-minded :P.

Average

9. Shadow - All-round he seems competant, though sometimes his ego gets in the way.

10. Vector - The brains behind his own detective agency, though not the best financial man.

11. Sonic - Probably smarter than he lets on, but still prefers the physical approach.

12. Espio - Well versed in his ninja ways, but maybe lets it go to his head once to often.

13. Silver - Despite having powerful physic power he doesn't act all that smart.

14. Knuckles - Ignoring his gullible moments he's probably not all that stupid, since he must be able to survive on the island alone, apprently knows fighting and martial arts techniques and knows a decent amount about ancient literature and stuff involving the Emeralds.

15. Jet - Aside from skill on an air-board, he doesn't really seem to clever.

Dull

16. Big - Skilled enough at fishing to keep himself (well) fed, but mostly comes off as ignorant to the world around him.

17. Charmy - Rather ditzy at the best of times, but he's at least able to get some detective work done.

18. Marine - Sorta self-absorbed to the point of missing things, but able to build decent (if questionable) sea-travel.

19. Cream - Just a young girl really, not much to say.

20. Storm - Usually a yes-man type and easily confused. Almost child-like mentality.

Brainless

21. Froggy - Just a ungrateful frog that runs away when shown nothing but love :P.

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But in terms of actual intelligence, I like to believe that there is a decent gap between Eggman and Tails, otherwise it sorta lessens one of Eggman's most defining traits as a villianous character. Not to mention it making Tails seem a bit over-powered since he has his own ability to fly on top of some of the best attributes of both Sonic (speed and agility) and Eggman (brains).

Well obviously Eggman is smarter than Tails in Tails' current form (age and all being an important factor, he's only 8), and like I said both will continue to get smarter, but at the end of their lives Tails will likely end up "smarter" or more intellectually accomplished than Eggman.

For example I doubt Eggman was as smart as Tails when Eggman was 8, simply due to the levels of science at the time of Eggman's childhood presumably being much lower than that of Tails'.

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If Tails does have the same IQ as Eggman, he wouldn't have had to perform as well as Eggman to get that score, since IQ scores are adjusted for age*. Tails being 8 means that he wouldn't have had to get the same score as Eggman to end up with that IQ. (Yes, I am saying that Tails probably couldn't outperform Eggman on an IQ test =P).

HOWEVER, the fact that he can do all this shit at 8 YEARS OLD should be reason enough for him to be in the super-genius tier. I think that his capabilities right now may be less than Eggman's in that his lifetime has been far too short (and hectic!) for him to spend time building things on the scale of Eggman, but I also think that he has the potential to create things on an equal level, and could probably surpass Eggman in the future if this is how smart he is at just 8 years old. (Of course, advances in technology will give him an additional advantage!).

Also, I see the whole Death Egg thing being brought up a lot... but Tails has also done pretty amazing things. Does no one remember that he created a fake chaos emerald that resonated on the exact same frequency as a real one, could be used for chaos control, AND would have been capable of nullifying the other emeralds?

*On a side note, how can we possibly know that Eggman and Tails have the same IQ? =P Did they sit down somewhere and apply for Mensa membership on the same day? Somehow the idea of the two of them scribbling intently on an IQ test form is pretty hilarious XD;;

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Also, I see the whole Death Egg thing being brought up a lot... but Tails has also done pretty amazing things. Does no one remember that he created a fake chaos emerald that resonated on the exact same frequency as a real one, could be used for chaos control, AND would have been capable of nullifying the other emeralds?

I'm going to go a little off-topic here but this part is really interesting, didn't SA2 Also stated that the master emerald have this very same properties?

So, Tails didn't created just a fake emerald, he created a mini Master Emerald, with chaos control hax skills. :o

Heck, if he would have keep working on that he could desing something so Angel Island stop falling everytime the ME is stolen (that would also give Knuckles some free time to do things like treasure hunting, racing or delivering ninja info cards).

p.d: I'm still believing Sonic is a lot smarter than what are you saying, the fact he doesn't bother with this kind of stuff doesn't mean he is less intelligent, it just means he has less knowledge, and knowledge =/= Intelligence.

Edited by Argentina

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I'm going to go a little off-topic here but this part is really interesting, didn't SA2 Also stated that the master emerald have this very same properties?

So, Tails didn't created just a fake emerald, he created a mini Master emmerald, with chaos control hax skills. :o

p.d: I'm still believing Sonic is a lost smarter than what are you saying, the fact he doesn't bother with this kind of stuff doesn't mean he is less intelligent, it just means he has less knowledge, and knowledge =/= Intelligence.

That's kinda what I was thinking. Tails kinda made a smaller version of the most powerful force in the entire series. Better than anything Eggman has done.

Also, that's ANOTHER thing I agree with. Sonic isn't dumb, he's above average really. But think, Sonic the Hedgehog... going to school...? He's really not that knowledgeable about sciencey things, but he's a smart guy.

I'll bet ya Tails taught him his maths.

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I agree, absolutely. Sonic is actually very intelligent. I'm not talking genius IQ here, but he's a smart guy. He's incredibly quick - not just on his feet, but his wit too.

Also, think about how sharp his mind must be to process information so fast when he's running. At those speeds, he can not only somehow manage to dodge, jump and avoid obstacles, but he can also plan ahead for his next moves.

His spur of the moment judgement and foresight abilities, planning on the go and managing to work out how to get out of almost any fix he's in, show that, while he may lack the academics to back in up, our hedgehog hero is FAR from stupid.

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I guess the important thing is too remember that there are different kinds of intelligence. While Tails and Eggman are "book smart," characters like Sonic or Knuckles tend to be intelligent on a more situational basis. It's "How do I make a fusion reactor" vs. "How do I manipulate my environment to escape this death trap?"

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I agree, absolutely. Sonic is actually very intelligent. I'm not talking genius IQ here, but he's a smart guy. He's incredibly quick - not just on his feet, but his wit too.

Also, think about how sharp his mind must be to process information so fast when he's running. At those speeds, he can not only somehow manage to dodge, jump and avoid obstacles, but he can also plan ahead for his next moves.

His spur of the moment judgement and foresight abilities, planning on the go and managing to work out how to get out of almost any fix he's in, show that, while he may lack the academics to back in up, our hedgehog hero is FAR from stupid.

How I agree.

I've always had the impression that game Sonic has a quiet sense of intelligence about him and his interllectual foibles are primarily from leaping before looking above anything else. I suppose he's more 'street smart' than 'book smart' and that people who think Sonic is thick seem more inclined to think more along the lines of Satam Sonic (Who definately was a dumbass). The Fleetway and Sonic X incarnations of Sonic can actually be remarkably intelligent and sharp.

The storybook series really made out Sonic to be intelligent in introspectiveness, such as when he's figuring how the White World Ring's powers of desire can either lead it's wielder to fulfilling their aspirations or negatively inspiring them to be greedy and/or ambitious as well as his plain but no less true for it wisdom in advising Merlina at the end of SatBK. It's an element of smartness that is subtle and yet I can't envision any other character than Sonic acting like it.

Oh, and Sonic can fly the Tornado and Eggman's Egg Mobile. So he is at least intelligent enough to fly a biplane as well as the Egg Mobile.

Edited by Romania

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One thing I found funny was that episode of Sonic X where Eggman "rebuilds the moon".

I know Sonic X isn't canon, but I was genuinely surprised that Sonic figured out what noone else could see. So, I guess Sonic's not really a genius, but he has a brilliant amount of common sense that even slipped by Tails.

I didn't like Sonic X at all but that episode in particular stands out for me.

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One thing I found funny was that episode of Sonic X where Eggman "rebuilds the moon".

I know Sonic X isn't canon, but I was genuinely surprised that Sonic figured out what noone else could see. So, I guess Sonic's not really a genius, but he has a brilliant amount of common sense that even slipped by Tails.

I didn't like Sonic X at all but that episode in particular stands out for me.

Those two episodes had the grandaddy of all idiot plots but I too found it awesome in an incredibly convoluted kind of way that Sonic was the only one who saw through Eggman's ploy. It would've been cooler had the plot been more believable (All of earth's citizen's utter FAIL regarding how the sun and moon work!?) but I liked how the japanese version had Sonic destroy the mirror towers instead of informing the populace about the basics of astronomy because "I've not been able to get a good night's sleep/it's disturbing my nap" XD He still knew the basics of the solar system though.

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It can definitely be said that Gerald exceeds Eggman- Perhaps the only character to have this distinction.

Eggman himself, egotist that he is, even admits this in a roundabout way. Note that Eggman calls himself "the greatest scientific genius in the world", but Gerald "the greatest scientific mind in the history of the world." In this, Eggman is claiming to be the smartest man alive, but that Gerald is the smartest man who ever lived, outclassing his own genius.

Eggman is not one to casually admit when others are better than him. He's a man in love with his own ego, and for him to openly admit to his grandfather's superiority speaks volumes of Gerald's brilliance.

As for Tails, I think it's always been the implication that his potential intelligence matches Eggman's own. He's just less experienced due to his age, is all. In theory, he'll match- but not outright exceed- Eggman's own genius when he's a little older.

I would argue Eggman Nega's intelligence is probably exactly the same as Eggman's. He has the advantage of (in one of his two origin stories) being from the distant future and thusly having the benefits of more advanced technological knowledge perhaps, but otherwise is probably equal in brains to the original.

Edited by Dr. Mechano

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I think Shadow is as smart as Eggman but not as ingenius. In 06, he reprogrammed Omega and made him operational again and he's a agent, so he's gotta be perceptive and cunning as well.

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I think Shadow is as smart as Eggman but not as ingenius. In 06, he reprogrammed Omega and made him operational again and he's a agent, so he's gotta be perceptive and cunning as well.

Rouge the Bat has those same traits as well (and last I checked, it was Rouge the Bat who reprogrammmed Omega), but she's obviously not as smart as Eggman. For Shadow to be as smart, he has to be able to do things that rival Eggman's skills, and the only characters to rival or exceed him in that aspect are Tails and Gerald.

He's a smart character in his own right, but not as smart as Eggman.

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic

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I think Shadow is as smart as Eggman but not as ingenius. In 06, he reprogrammed Omega and made him operational again and he's a agent, so he's gotta be perceptive and cunning as well.

No doubt Shadow is intelligent but I don't think he reprogrammed Omega. He merely found him in standby mode in Crisis City and acknowledged that nothing could be done for him. Matter of fact, when Rouge returns to the present day Soleanna she gives GUN a ring and requests Omega's assistance. So Omega goes throughout the entire game without any aspect of him tampered with by Shadow.

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Being gullible and naive =/= intelligent

For example, in 06, Silver is the one to figure out that perhaps Elise and the powers of prayer and positive energy from the Emeralds could resurrect Sonic DESPITE having relatively little knowledge to work with. And while I haven't played Rivals, his enemy is Nega and I'm sure there's some BS he figures out in that game. Comics also reveal him to be pretty intelligent, and as established, his naivety and innocence (being 14) doesn't mean he's dumb. He's invaluable because he has the potential to outsource future knowledge and warn the main cast of impending soon they otherwise would've succumbed to, and also, can we like, actually get a look at the future and maybe see what tech they have there and the advancements they could've made?

As for Knux? While he's grown to be more of a buffoon lately, he DOES lead the resistance, has great knowledge on the Emeralds, and I think he did cool stuff in Knuckles Chaotix. He has his moments when he's actually level-headed.

And as for Sonic? He's not nearly as inconsistent as a shonen/anime protag when it comes to intelligence. He's actually pretty quick, and his leadership has proven results.

With all this Tails downplay, I was expecting someone to say "But Eggman's a nitwit half the time and always fails. What a genius IQ" like how people use Mario to downplay Bowser's accomplishments and power. That said, I do agree with those saying that IQ is adjusted for age. However, the fake Emerald and apparent things he listed off in Lost World as well as tricking the Zetti with a plan he adapted on the fly? He's not tk be underestimated. Definitely a near equal to Eggman, but is held back by his young age at times.

No other things to say that haven't already been said 

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I think Sonic and Knuckles are both more on the dumper site. Sonic can't even really count, which was shown with his conversation with Zomom. And Knuckles... kind hard to judge. sometimes he is rock bottom stupid and other times he acts pretty normal.

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Well smarts isn't really a liner thing. There is academic knowledge, having logical mind or just being 'street smart'. And even then genius can have a character weakness that less-smart person can exploit to outwit him.

Still

1) Genius
Gerald, Eggman, Tails, probably in that order (Tails is still young, Eggman can't build Shadow)
Nega to lesser degree, as his toys are just copies of Eggman's work. And dude is apparently from future.
Sally Acorn is too on tactical level
Mephiles, perhaps? He is manipulator ancient god
Sticks

2) Very Intelligent
Rouge (manipulator)
Wave (extreme gear tech)
Vector (detective skills, he's smarter then he looks... in  his own way)
Zavok & Zik (other Zeeti are common or idiots)
Sticks

3) Above Average Smart
Sonic (he must be if he outsmarted Eggman so many times)
Amy (nowadays. she's fairly resourceful, basically lead the Resistance)
Blaze (I give her benefit of a doubt, she is a princess. Even if in Rush she mostly proved being stubborn and having temper)
Espio (a bit being a detective, a bit his ninja look on the world, a bit of being only 'sane' Chaotix)
Jet (leads his own team)
Sticks

4) Average Intelligence
Majority of folks
Knuckles and Silver (sometimes feel a bit dumb, but they really aren't)
Amy (somewhere pre-Lost World, she could be childlish and easily distracted)
Metal, (when he's not Neo), Omega (both have very one track mind)
I'm hesitating with Shadow, but let's be honest: he never proved to be that smart. Usually he's powerful enough to solve his problems without outwitting them.
Sticks

5) Below Average
Cream, Charmy, Marine (but to be fair Cream is fairly mature for her age, Charmy is detective-in-training and Marine builds ships. Still, they are kids)
Chaos (maybe? we assume he's an animal-like, but maybe he's a silent sage, who can tell?)
Big and Storm (mentally kids)
At least few Zeti (Zazz and Zomom are morons, Zeena and Zor are at least shallow)
Sticks

0) ????
Sticks

Funny, smart tiers are only ones with 'below average'. In Sonic world you must have some muscle and some legs, brain is optional

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Wow. An even older thread of this type. And it's with intelligence, no less!

This should prove simultaneous more interesting and yet still a little fuzzy to nail down. I need to consider the criteria.

...And there's no criteria. Marvelous.

I'll throw something together shortly.

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