Eggman Nega and Dr. Eggman

[HunterTSF]

"Ah, how rude of me. I am Dr. Eggman Nega."

Oh yes, Dr. Eggman Nega! That moustachioed Eggman look-alike who made his debut in Sonic Rush has been creating confusion amongst the fanbase in every subsequent game since. His backstory appears to be so drastically different between games that most people attribute the perplexity to flawed writing, or even go as far to claim that there are multiple Negas or that the Rush and Rivals series take place in entirely different continuities. From my understanding, the two chief complaints are:

• Descendant of Eggman? But he was an interdimensional counterpart to him in Rush! Does not compute!
  
• Why is he Eggman's bestest buddy and teammate one second, and enemy to him the next? The story is flawed!
  

And yes, they are very legitimate bafflements. But if you de-construct Eggman Nega's motives, actions, and statements, it's pretty easy to put the pieces of the puzzle together. Starting from the top:

Sonic Rush

This game marked Dr. Eggman Nega's debut into the series along with new female co-star Blaze the Cat. This game is often referred back to as a game in which Eggman and Nega were cooperative buddies trying to take over the world together while fighting against the allied powers of Sonic and Blaze. How Nega got into the mix of things is often disregarded, but is a vital key in the grand scheme of things.

The grand schemer behind Sonic Rush was not Eggman, and the grand scheme was not another silly attempt at building Eggmanland. And Nega was certainly not the sidekick.

The concept of using the Sol Emeralds was not Eggman's idea. Prior to the events of the game, Nega persuaded Eggman to go to the Sol dimension. It is here, presumably, in which he introduces himself to him and explains the workings of the mysterious "Sol Emeralds" in conjunction with the Chaos Emeralds. Nega is perfectly aware of the world-destructing chaos that would ensue if these Emeralds are brought together. He knows the collection of the 14 Emeralds will destroy two goddamn dimensions. And Nega loves destruction. Of course, he could not persuade Eggman into collecting the Emeralds if this was the final outcome, so he lures him in with the concept of harnessing the power to create an "Eggmanland beyond this dimension" - or Eggman does. It doesn't really matter who did, because Eggman was hooked into the concept of using the 14 Emeralds to do so.

(Supporting quotes)

Blaze: ... So you guided Eggman to our world.

Eggman Nega: Ha ha ha. It's best to get someone else to do the dirty work. I've been waiting for him to return with the gems.

Dr. Eggman: And, the Chaos Emeralds

Eggman Nega: and the Sol Emeralds are

Dr. Eggman and Eggman Nega: in a manner, like the North and South magnetic poles.

Dr. Eggman: They can be used like a pair of magnets and be attracted to each other.

Eggman Nega: Or they can be used to repel the other!

Dr. Eggman: In close proximity, these emeralds call out to each other.

Eggman Nega: And the power this would generate... It could destroy the world!

Dr. Eggman: However, we merely want to harness the power here.

So subtle, but it's definitely there. The destruction of the space-time continuum was not an undesirable side-effect to Eggman's schemes - rather, that was Nega's entire goal. People rag on him for trying to transform the world into a card in his next game, but this was his masterpiece. Two entire dimensions laid to ruin. It would have worked perfectly if it were not for a few people getting in his way. Remember his last line of speech in the game? Sound a bit odd and out of place?

Sonic: I think this is it! Are you ready, Blaze?

Blaze: Yes. It's time...

Eggman Nega: My incredibly profound plans... It was such a small miscalculation that I made. It shouldn't matter. And it's not over yet. Just give me some time, and I'll...

Dr. Eggman: Enough of your babbling! See, they're here!

Bravo, Nega. Bravo. His grand scheme was profound enough to go over most people's heads, including none other than Eggman himself.

Sonic Rivals

Eggman Nega makes his next appearance in Sonic Rivals, this time being pursued by Silver the Hedgehog from the post-reboot 2006 game Sonic the Hedgehog. It is here where the cat is let out of the bag about Dr. Eggman Nega's true identity as a descendant of the Robotnik family (as well as somebody else's lineage)*.

After his failed attempt at interdimensional destruction in Sonic Rush, the defeated Nega comes up with yet another scheme - one that involves taking revenge upon the collaborator whom had failed him. Nega's come to the conclusion that the main reason for the future world not accepting him for the brilliant scientist that he is is due to Eggman's ruining the Robotnik family's reputation, so he devises a plan to travel back in time once again and remove his forebear from the timeline.

Eggman Nega: Heh heh heh... I'm here to change my destiny! I come from a long line of brilliant, scientists, but that lineage was disrupted with Dr. Eggman's failures! As a result, I have been denied my destiny as the world has refused to recognize my brilliance! So by removing Dr. Eggman's life and failed attempts at success, I will alter our family history forever! [...]

Of course, his plan doesn't work out too well. Eggman had notified Shadow that he had been targeted by somebody six hours prior to Nega's transportation of Onyx Island to present time, and Shadow eventually managed to rescue the doctor. Upset that this (as well as some other vital aspects of his plan) had been thwarted, he goes off the deep end and reverts to the good ol' plan B of capturing the world within the confines of a collector's card with his Egg Destroyer. He fails.

Sonic Rush Adventure

In Nega's third game, he manages to persuade Eggman into utilizing some powerful artefacts located in the Sol dimension for some interdimensional fun despite their less-than-friendly past encounter. He does so by luring him in with the "Jewelled Scepter", an item that can an unlock the "Power of the Stars", a grand power which links Sonic and Blaze's dimensions. They collaborate together and round up a group of robotic pirates to obtain the Scepter while they locate the Power of the Stars. But of course, their motives are quite different.

Dr. Eggman: I'm here because of the ultimate power said to exist in this universe! [...] A power that I plan to use as my own, to its fullest advantage!

Sonic: And I'm guessing that's not going to be any good for the rest of us!

Dr. Eggman: I merely plan to use that power to turn this place into my ideal paradise, Eggmanland!

Blaze: You still have that crazy idea!?

vs

Eggman Nega: It will take only a fraction of this power to wipe your kingdom off the map! Haahaha! [...] Now, the world shall be my plaything! I shall bring about an age of fear and chaos! And it shall be glorious!

Yup. Also, once Sonic and Blaze defeat the Egg Wizard, he doesn't take it very well. Or perhaps it takes it too well.

Dr. Eggman: Nooo! Curse you, Sonic!

Eggman Nega: Haa ha ha ha ha! It's time to die, fools!

Dr. Eggman: Nega?! Wait... what are you doing...?!

Eggman Nega: HAAA ha ha ha!

Dr. Eggman: What? No! You're mad! Don't push that button...!

Eggman Nega: Planet-Buster Laser, FIRE!

It really doesn't look like "building a happy little Eggmanland paradise" was very high on Nega's priorities.

(Other things worth noting)

Eggman Nega: Haa ha ha ha! Oh, you poor thing. Allow me to explain. This world and Dr. Eggman's world exist in seperate dimensions.

In the first Sonic Rush, Nega was extremely careful about how he worded things when referring to the Sol dimension, using adjectives such as "my" and "our" in order to assist in his masquerade of "interdimensional counterpart" to others. In subsequent instalments, he's become far looser seeing as his identity's been exposed to quite a few people.

Eggman Nega: And you... if memory serves me correctly, you're Sonic the Hedgehog

Nega intentionally puts a bit of an emphasis on not being able to instantly recognize Sonic, placing him farther back in his memory than he really is. His identity as Nega was never exposed to Sonic in Rivals, so he's still going to try to place a larger gap between the last time they met.

Sonic Rivals 2

In his last instalment (I'm not counting MASATVO, as much as I would like to.), Eggman Nega is once again hellbent on creating hell. However, instead of messing around with the Sol dimension as he usually does, he takes a hint from Prof. Gerald's notes and looks into the Ifrit's dimension instead. It is made evident from the very beginning of the story that Eggman and Nega are not working together on this one, as Eggman sends off Metal Sonic to prevent him from destroying the world and reclaim his bases. This is the first title in which we actually see Eggman actively working against Nega for the entirety of the game.

----

So, to answer the questions -

1) Eggman Nega is a descendant of Eggman, but he is in the Sol dimension quite frequently and is familiar with Blaze, her kingdom, and the various inner workings of that world. He never stated that he was an interdimensional counterpart to Eggman - that was Sonic's guess.

2) In the end, they've never collaborated together to reach a common goal. Whereas Eggman has been super determined to create his paradise of Eggmanland, Nega carried the same determination to create a world comprised of chaos and destruction. Nega tends to use Eggman's curiosity regarding the Sol dimension to his advantage, and manages to get him to do quite a bit of the "dirty work" for him.

As for Eggman's relationship with Nega - he likes him, but finds some of his actions to be outright dangerous and insane. He respects his status as a great scientist of the Robotnik family and still gets excited about his new discoveries ("When Nega told me this, I practically jumped for joy!"). Even in the instances in which they are directly opposing each other, It's worth noting that Eggman still does not hold any hostility towards Nega, but is still aware that he really needs to stop him in order to prevent the chaos that would ensue.

So yup, that's my stance on things. What do you guise think?

*

This is irrelevant to the topic at hand, but I'm going to slap myself for not noticing this earlier when archiving Nega's dialogue.

Sonic: Okay, Eggman! I've proven that I'm the fastest and the strongest! So hand over Tails' card now!

Eggman Nega: You want this card that badly, eh? Hmm... I suppose I have enough data... But if I defeat you now, there won't be anyone left to get in my way in the present, or in the future...

Silver: The future!? You've given yourself away!

Sonic: Heh! That's only IF you can defeat me! Bring it on Eggman!

An implication that Silver's a descendant of Sonic! Not sure how he lived after Sonic's death in '06 though. Space-time rip protected him, I guess?

Edited May 14, 2010 by HunterTSF

[gato]

I would agree with you, but >I don't think Eggman wants to work with Nega anymore (avoiding MASATOWG because you know... spin-off), the story seems to go like this:

Sonic Rush: Here Eggman meets Nega who tells him about this fascinating item called Sol emmeralds (Off-Topic: everytime I say Sol I think of Sumo Digital ) and what wonderfull things they could make with their powers, so they go BFF and start working together, I actually don't remember if Nega stated that he wanted to destroy the world in the first Rush so that would explain why Eggman would want to wor with him again in Rush Adventure.

Sonic Rivals: In Rivals (according to you, I never played that game) Nega never revealed his true identity so it would make sense that Eggman still wants to work with him in Rush Adventure despite he wanting to kill him (BTW, that was a really dumb/twisted/insane plan, becaue without Eggman, who would continue the Robotnik lineage? *cue dramatic hamster music* ).

Sonic Rush Adventure: In Rush Adventure Eggman works with Nega again (ignoring what he wanted to do with him in Rivals), they try to go for the Jewelled Scepter but when things go wrong, Nega (maybe in a burst of insanity) makes clear his intentions to everyone, and Eggman is not really pleased with his idea of an age of fear and chaos, that would be the last time they work togheter since it seems the good doctor doesn't want to know anything else about his twisted counterpart.

Sonic Rivals 2: Here, after knowing what Nega's real intentions are, Eggman decides to stop him, and help our heroes in their quest (again, never played this, so I may be wrong).

So, as you can see here, Eggman used to want to work alongside Nega, but I don't think that's the case anymore...

p.d: I love Nega's sunglases but I hate his clothes, is feels he is wearing nothing at all... nothing at all... nothing at all...

[HunterTSF]

Eggman knew about Nega's plan in the first Rivals, actually. After being rescued, he gives Shadow and Silver a ride up to Meteor Base so they can put an end to his plans.

Eggman Nega: Now you've done it! You've made me very very angry! Now I'll use this camera to transform the whole planet into a card!

Shadow: Wait! Eggman NEGA!

Eggman Nega: Heh heh heh... There's nothing you can do... Goodbye!

Silver: No! I'm too late!

Shadow: It's like you said before. He was only impersonating the Doctor.

Silver: It looks like you've realized who the true enemy is, Shadow.

Dr. Eggman: Ho ho ho ho! It looks like you have a problem!

Shadow: Wha-!? Doctor!

Silver: You!?

Dr. Eggman: Don't be rash! That's right! I'm the real Dr. Eggman! Back in the flesh, thanks to you, Shadow! So it looks like we have a common enemy. Want to come along?

Shadow : Hmph! Is that a question?!

Silver: Very well!

Dr. Eggman: Then off we go, out into space! Hang on!

They've worked both with and against each other before, which is what made things so confusing with SRA to most.

Edited May 14, 2010 by HunterTSF

[Sega DogTagz]

Silver: Hey, Eggman! Things are finally starting to make sense... "Eggman NEGA," who I'm looking for, would never let his camera out of his sight. So that means... You must be Eggman NEGA!

Eggman Nega: Well now... That's an interesting theory... But do you have any proof?

Sonic: Hey, Eggman! Are we done with your little game yet?

Eggman Nega: Hmm... I suppose I have enough data to proceed with my plans... But if I defeat you now, there won't be anyone left to get in my way in the present, or in the future...

Silver: The future!? You've given yourself away!

Sonic: Heh! That's a big IF, Eggman. Get ready!

Nega implied that Silver's a descendant of Sonic! Not sure how he lived after Sonic's death in '06 though. Space-time rip protected him I guess.

Not to skip over that brilliant analysis and pick on this one part, but rather than implying that Silver is a descendent of Sonic, couldn’t he have just meant that he could wipe them both out now and be done with it?

On top of that, thanks to a butterfly effect scenario, the defeat of Sonic in the present would more than likely mean the removal the existence of Silver in the future anyway. Related or not.

I didn’t play the Rivals series, so I may just be seeing it out of context though.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Gallia

[Dr. Crusher]

Nega's got a lot to boast about.

Too bad I hate his guts.

Yeah, this is another one of those "Nega is what Robotnik should be" things, albeit without the "suicidal insanity" part. I still think the idea of "Robotnik but EVIIIIILLLLER" is stupid, even if Nega is meant to be "polar opposite" or some s***. Dark/Nega/Evil versions of villains suck. The only time I truly accepted it was in Mario & Luigi 3, and that's only because he only got to do a few things and speak in riddles before being Falcon Punched to death by Bowser.

Meanwhile Robotnik gets helplessly tricked by Nega. Twice.

Or rather, if the Rushes are anything to go by, four times.

My god, even when he is the final boss, Robotnik's not safe. So in that case, the last time he was in perfect control and the absolute total mastermind was in... Sonic Advance 2. Back in 2003. 2003. This is 2010. That's a long gap. I bet even King Dedede is more lucky than that.

Seriously, he can't even walk out of his f***ing house without someone tricking/betraying/overshadowing him. He might as well kill himself at this rate.

Sorry to angst and spoil the fun, I don't mean to, but Nega's obvious superior status just gets me riled up. Eggy was already in deep s*** before the first Rush, and Nega's constant screwings didn't help things at all.

...So what did Nega do in the Winter Olympics anyway? Was he just a boss?

[HunterTSF]

Not to skip over that brilliant analysis and pick on this one part, but rather than implying that Silver is a descendent of Sonic, couldn’t he have just meant that he could wipe them both out now and be done with it?

On top of that, thanks to a butterfly effect scenario, the defeat of Sonic in the present would more than likely mean the removal the existence of Silver in the future anyway. Related or not.

Bah, I posted the wrong version, but that sounds to be just as plausible - it really depends on how you look it at. Sonic's version of the text appeared to imply it stronger though seeing as Nega was speaking directly to him in that version.

Sonic: Okay, Eggman! I've proven that I'm the fastest and the strongest! So hand over Tails' card now!

Eggman Nega: You want this card that badly, eh? Hmm... I suppose I have enough data... But if I defeat you now, there won't be anyone left to get in my way in the present, or in the future...

Silver: The future!? You've given yourself away!

Sonic: Heh! That's only IF you can defeat me! Bring it on Eggman!

Hmm...

...So what did Nega do in the Winter Olympics anyway? Was he just a boss?

He played a role in the Adventure Tours, but it wasn't revealed whether or not he was working with or against Eggman. He does some twisted things there, too.

He promises our delightful group of protagonists that he will set his hostage free once he is defeated in a Skeleton race. What does he do when they win? He keeps his end of the promise. By nonchalantly nudging the prisoner, still encaged, off of a cliff and into the arctic ocean.

Edited May 14, 2010 by HunterTSF

[Dr. Crusher]

So basically more proof that Nega is a waste and that they could have done this by making the real Robotnik's balls drop off?

Nothing new there. Thanks for the info though, I appreciate it.

[Icecoldfrieza]

I liked the analysis, but do you think the story would make more sense if the order of the games went like this?

Rush

Rush Adventure

Rivals

Rivals 2

This way, Nega pretends to work with Eggman twice, goes insane after Rush Adventure, and is his enemy from then on. It just makes more sense to me than the two being friends, then enemies, then friends, then enemies again. All of the points you made would still be valid if you went by this order. Your way makes sense too, though. That was the order the games were released, after all.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Icecoldfrieza

[gato]

This way, Nega pretends to work with Eggman twice, goes insane after Rush Adventure, and is his enemy from then on. It just makes more sense to me than the two being friends, then enemies, then friends, then enemies again. All of the points you made would still be valid if you went by this order. Your way makes sense too, though. That was the order the games were released, after all.

That's the problem, that's the orders the games were relased so unless someone brings a confirmation of what game came first in this (messed up) timeline, we will have to guess it's for their relase. =/

After Hunter's explanation, I would love if this were like you said, it would fix a lot of things.

EDIT: anyways, maybe it is like that, I mean, it wouldn't be the first time that SEGA relases a game that is not next to the latstest one canonically/chronologically speaking (we can thank Sonic 4 for that )

Edited May 14, 2010 by imarafan

[Tori Himemiya]

About the Eggman Nega being Eggman's desendant you really need to concider this.

His technology is very simular to Eggman's. If he was really from the future then he would had made a really good world destroying machine because technology would had advanced. But that's not much of the case. I mean he did had one later but if he was from the future he would had it sooner and could had pretty much destroyed the world which was his main goal. Then again it could be flawed logic.

And if your thinking he's Eggman's dad or something well his technology wouldn't had been advanced like Eggman so Eggman would had helped him to keep up with the times. He would had been surprised that there's other ways of destroying worlds other than the Eclipse Cannon. But Nega knew what he was doing so that proves he came from an alternate universe.

[HunterTSF]

About the Eggman Nega being Eggman's desendant you really need to concider this.

His technology is very simular to Eggman's. If he was really from the future then he would had made a really good world destroying machine because technology would had advanced. But that's not much of the case. I mean he did had one later but if he was from the future he would had it sooner and could had pretty much destroyed the world which was his main goal. Then again it could be flawed logic.

Well, Silver does actually directly state that Eggman Nega's technology is far more advanced than the technology of the present day. Nega's creations may be similar to Eggman's in design, but they do use more advanced stuff. Examples would include some of his machines located in Meteor Base (such as the zero gravity lava spinny thingy) along with his boss mechs such as the Egg Salamander Nega.

Also, more advanced technologies do not equate a competent villain.

Silver: Eggman! That camera technology shouldn't exist in this time! How did you get it?

And if your thinking he's Eggman's dad or something well his technology wouldn't had been advanced like Eggman so Eggman would had helped him to keep up with the times. He would had been surprised that there's other ways of destroying worlds other than the Eclipse Cannon. But Nega knew what he was doing so that proves he came from an alternate universe.

Errr...what? He's definitely not Eggman's dad, no.

Shadow: Who are you!? If what you said is true, then the real doctor is trapped inside that card!

Eggman Nega: Heh heh heh...It seems it's time we stop playing this childish game any longer... You are quite right... I am not Eggman!

Eggman Nega: My name is Eggman Nega!

Shadow: Eggman Nega!? But you look like...

Eggman Nega: Just like Eggman? Of course I do! For I am a descendant of Eggman!

Just because he's from the future doesn't mean that he's any better than Eggman when it comes to succeeding in his schemes, even with the technological advantage.

[Icecoldfrieza]

This may be a bit off topic, but what exactly happened at the end of Rivals 2? The Ifrit was defeated, Nega got trapped in its dimension, and Silver said that he hopes his future is a happy one. But how is it that Silver retained his memory of that event after the future was altered? That seems to contradict the ending of Sonic 06.

In the beginning of Chaotic Inferno Zone, Silver said his world was caught up in flames due to the Ifrit. Since that "never happened," he shouldn't have been around afterward to talk to Espio after the Ifrit's defeat...Ahh I'm thinking way to hard about this.

[Badnik Zero]

It's no coincidence that this topic came up the same time as the Sara topic. Who is Nega a descendant of Eggman's with? I'd check him for a tail.

Unless he goes the mad scientist route and begins to clone himself. I'm willing to bet there's a clone in the family tree. Maybe it's the cause of his insanity.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Badnikstan

[Core]

Wow, that's a really good analysis here. I agree with most of it. Well, like Icecoldfrieza, I've always assumed Sonic Rivals should take place after Sonic Rush Adventure to explain the change in the Eggman's relationship, but your explanation makes sense too.

Dr. Eggman: And, the Chaos Emeralds

Eggman Nega: and the Sol Emeralds are

Dr. Eggman and Eggman Nega: in a manner, like the North and South magnetic poles.

Dr. Eggman: They can be used like a pair of magnets and be attracted to each other.

Eggman Nega: Or they can be used to repel the other!

Dr. Eggman: In close proximity, these emeralds call out to each other.

Eggman Nega: And the power this would generate... It could destroy the world!

Dr. Eggman: However, we merely want to harness the power here.

So subtle, but it's definitely there. The destruction of the space-time continuum was not an undesirable side-effect to Eggman's schemes - rather, that was Nega's entire goal.

Oh, wow. I've never paid attention to that line, but you're right - even in Sonic Rush, Nega was already willing to destroy the worlds. Impressive.

On top of that, thanks to a butterfly effect scenario, the defeat of Sonic in the present would more than likely mean the removal the existence of Silver in the future anyway. Related or not.

lol, considering Silver still exists after the time reset in Sonic '06, I think it's safe to assume that there's no butterfly effect in Sonic's universe.

This may be a bit off topic, but what exactly happened at the end of Rivals 2? The Ifrit was defeated, Nega got trapped in its dimension, and Silver said that he hopes his future is a happy one. But how is it that Silver retained his memory of that event after the future was altered? That seems to contradict the ending of Sonic 06.

In the beginning of Chaotic Inferno Zone, Silver said his world was caught up in flames due to the Ifrit. Since that "never happened," he shouldn't have been around afterward to talk to Espio after the Ifrit's defeat...Ahh I'm thinking way to hard about this.

The games don't seem to be consistent about how time travel work, so I wouldn't put too much thought into this. Or maybe the ending of Sonic 06 follows different rules because Solaris is particular or something. Or maybe the Sonic that was with Elise when she put out the flame never lost his memories of the events, and was stuck in the past, and somewhere there's a 25-years-old Sonic living in addition to our hero... [/crazy theory]

[Saint Nathan]

lol, considering Silver still exists after the time reset in Sonic '06, I think it's safe to assume that there's no butterfly effect in Sonic's universe.

Well, killing Sonic may or may not affect Silver. And nobody could say if Sonic lived or died after Iblis was awoken in '06 either. It's kinda open.

Also, you know, I wouldn't mind Silver being Sonic's descendant. It would be kinda cool, having Sonic's family continually fighting Eggman's.

go ahead and be all "but sonic would never settle down" but what girl would want ol' ivo fatass, and if nega is his descendant then he must have gotten lucky at least once so i don't see how it's so unplausable.

[Dr. Crusher]

It's not that I don't like Silver being Sonic's descendent because Sonic wouldn't settle down.

I don't like it because it sounds like a Sonic fanfic.

Yuck.

[Agent York]

EggmanXEggman Nega FOREVER~

...Well, aside from my personal favorite Sonic pairing, Eggman Nega and Dr. Eggman both are split from the same branch, but opposite sides of that branch. At a glance they can be hard to tell apart besides obvious looks, but Eggman can be compassionate, wants to rule the world, and shares a rival relationship with those he challenges, though a bit of a short temper.

Eggman Nega is cold and calculating who only puts on a front of being a gentleman, he wants to see the world burn, doesn't care for challenges and thinks of problems as a nuisance, and when angered he goes bat-shit insane with fury and goes on a self-destruct mode to wipe out all living life in an act of revenge.

I want them to use Nega more, he has much more potential, and Nega manipulating Eggman for a while is interesting... It gets hard to tell if Nega is geniunely partnering with Eggman or if he's just using him since Nega hasn't shown any signs of caring for anyone but himself.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Dusk the Alan Wake Keeper

[Aquaslash]

As far as the descendant thing, and "If Nega kills Eggman, doesn't he screw himself" bit, my wager is this:

The answer would be no, because Eggman has already had a child/children. We don't know his exact age, but we can presume he's in or near his 50s right? Either way, plenty of time for him to have had a family at some point, and then be separated due to going evil.

Seems like the most likely thing, instead of the doc having yet to have kids.

Also I'd disagree with Silver being a descendant of Sonic (as interesting as that would be), and always took that line to imply he was going to kill both Sonic and Silver at the time.

Great analysis though.

[Sega DogTagz]

lol, considering Silver still exists after the time reset in Sonic '06, I think it's safe to assume that there's no butterfly effect in Sonic's universe.

Tell that to Blaze. She goes back to change the past and somehow manages to cluster**** her way out of existance. She still doesnt have a coherent backstory.

Then there is the concept of upending Solaris, which changed the past, present and future. I'll also point out the absence of Team Sonic in the timeline, paved the way for the apocoliptic future the heroes were thrown into. Silver's main goal was to initiate some kind of large scale butterfly effect anyway.

In Nega's case, wiping out Sonic would have probably meant the end of Silver, and the end of life on that planet.

[Dr. Crusher]

EggmanXEggman Nega FOREVER~

ARRRGGGGHHHHH.

Now add in Big and Black Doom.

ARRRGGGGHHHHH.

...Well, aside from my personal favorite Sonic pairing, Eggman Nega and Dr. Eggman both are split from the same branch, but opposite sides of that branch. At a glance they can be hard to tell apart besides obvious looks, but Eggman can be compassionate, wants to rule the world, and shares a rival relationship with those he challenges, though a bit of a short temper.

Eggman Nega is cold and calculating who only puts on a front of being a gentleman, he wants to see the world burn, doesn't care for challenges and thinks of problems as a nuisance, and when angered he goes bat-shit insane with fury and goes on a self-destruct mode to wipe out all living life in an act of revenge.

In other words, same old "we're opposites" cliche. Still think it's an excuse to have a second EVVVVIIIILLLLLERRRR Robotnik. You know, rather than just improving the original Robotnik. As I said, no matter what way you look at it, "dark/nega/evil" versions of a villain just degrade the original villain.

I want them to use Nega more, he has much more potential, and Nega manipulating Eggman for a while is interesting... It gets hard to tell if Nega is geniunely partnering with Eggman or if he's just using him since Nega hasn't shown any signs of caring for anyone but himself.

No, I think we've established for a while now that Nega doesn't give a s*** about Robotnik's ideals.

Therefore he must be nuked from orbit.

What would you want him to do in the future though? More Robotnik-tricking? Degrading the original more and more? Yay.

[Agent York]

In other words, same old "we're opposites" cliche. Still think it's an excuse to have a second EVVVVIIIILLLLLERRRR Robotnik. You know, rather than just improving the original Robotnik. As I said, no matter what way you look at it, "dark/nega/evil" versions of a villain just degrade the original villain.

I think they are meant to serve fundamentally different purposes. If Eggman acted just evil, that'd be boring. There's no depth to his character, he'd just be evil this, burn that, no appeal to the main antagonist of the series.

No, I think we've established for a while now that Nega doesn't give a s*** about Robotnik's ideals.

Therefore he must be nuked from orbit.

What would you want him to do in the future though? More Robotnik-tricking? Degrading the original more and more? Yay.

Not quite, what I meant is Nega of course doesn't give a shit for anyone but himself, BUT that doesn't mean he doesn't care for Eggman for his own benefits. Nega in fact has cited to be there to help his ancestor so he in the future will get power, thus though for selfish reasons he may very well be there to support him instead of being the typical in the end backstabber to Eggman.

Also I love Eggman how he is, he's my favorite character, he's not supposed to be a 1-layered evil character. I think Sonic Unleashed and Chronicles were some of his best appearances yet. However, what I mean is Nega can be good character development for Eggman, Nega is a rotten core, what can a rotten core do to influence a twisted genius?

[Dr. Crusher]

I think they are meant to serve fundamentally different purposes. If Eggman acted just evil, that'd be boring. There's no depth to his character, he'd just be evil this, burn that, no appeal to the main antagonist of the series.

What, like SatAM Robotnik?

*sigh* Why do people think I want him to be like SatAM Robotnik? I don't even like that version because of those exact reasons - lack of personality/character. I was thinking more along the lines of some extreme Ganondorf/Joker/Hitler combo - Hitler's fear and suffering, Joker's craziness and Ganondorf's planning skills. There'd be more to it than that obviously, but I'm just sick of Robotnik holding back I guess. I never really like villains with Team Rocket-levels of redemption points, then I just feel bad about beating them up. I prefer villains who are so repulsive that it feels good to beat the s*** out of them, even if they come back tomorrow for another wacky scheme involving bouncing raccoon cannons.

Or something along those lines. I suppose I'm tired of Robotnik not being "in the game" so to speak. He's always overthrown in the end. He needs to grow some balls. Fast. I'm not just talking about the other villains either - Sonic may have always been a cocky fellow, but even he needs a respectable evil dude. Otherwise it's less "making jokes at him" and more "just plain laughing at him".

Sorry if I sound like some sort of Sonic-Grinch. I blame Sonic X.

Not quite, what I meant is Nega of course doesn't give a shit for anyone but himself, BUT that doesn't mean he doesn't care for Eggman for his own benefits. Nega in fact has cited to be there to help his ancestor so he in the future will get power, thus though for selfish reasons he may very well be there to support him instead of being the typical in the end backstabber to Eggman.

Also I love Eggman how he is, he's my favorite character, he's not supposed to be a 1-layered evil character. I think Sonic Unleashed and Chronicles were some of his best appearances yet. However, what I mean is Nega can be good character development for Eggman, Nega is a rotten core, what can a rotten core do to influence a twisted genius?

Eh, I'm still tired of Nega making Robotnik his bitch. Nega may be an evil genius, but so is Robotnik. He shouldn't be tricked so easily dammit, especially when he's meant to be a master tricker himself.

It's a shame too - back in the first Rush days I would have gladly accepted them as scheming buddies, even if I still hated the idea of a Robotnik clone, but after all of this nonsense... no.

I'm still waiting for the day Robotnik actually gets his revenge on Nega, but knowing SEGA, in their typical fashion, they'll probably never make that happen. *groan*

Edited May 15, 2010 by Dr. Crusher

[Phos]

This sentiment that being a threat and being complex are mutually exclusive perplexes me.

[Octarine]

*sigh* Why do people think I want him to be like SatAM Robotnik? I don't even like that version because of those exact reasons - lack of personality/character. I was thinking more along the lines of some extreme Ganondorf/Joker/Hitler combo - Hitler's fear and suffering, Joker's craziness and Ganondorf's planning skills. There'd be more to it than that obviously, but I'm just sick of Robotnik holding back I guess. I never really like villains with Team Rocket-levels of redemption points, then I just feel bad about beating them up. I prefer villains who are so repulsive that it feels good to beat the s*** out of them, even if they come back tomorrow for another wacky scheme involving bouncing raccoon cannons.

Hitler? Um.

I appreciate that Eggman's fallen on somewhat hard times lately and I'd love to see him step up his game a little, but I find that kind of transformation hard to even fathom. Nearly twenty years of silliness are hard to wipe away; better to start from scratch with a different character than to pull a Bomberman: Act Zero and turn the jolly comedic villain, who has pretty much always been a comedic villain, into freaking Hitler.

As for Nega? I like the guy, but he's hard to do justice in a minimal-plot platformer where he always has to fight with the original Robotnik for screentime. I'd like to see him in an RPG or something, where he'd have a little more room to stretch his legs.

[Diogenes]

I still don't buy this, the whole thing where the Rushes and Rivals are supposed to fit together. The only time they've made any comment on just what's up with Nega, it was some sort of nonsense answer that seemed to want to have it both ways. Combine with the flip-flopping of his alliance with Eggman (when ordering the games by release), its vague connections to '06 and the Blaze plothole, and that neither Rivals game ever made it to Japan...I just don't see it working. I don't see Nega's contradicting origins being worked around any more than Blaze's, not without some significant retconning.

That aside, it's still a solid analysis of the character, pointing out a few things that are easy to overlook.