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HunterTSF

Eggman Nega and Dr. Eggman

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your analysis makes sense for the most part, but it just seems doubtful to me. It seems much more likely that these are just separate universes.

Thats just my take on it anyway. But one thing that makes me laugh is how much more of a demented villian Nega is.

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better to start from scratch with a different character than to pull a Bomberman: Act Zero and turn the jolly comedic villain, who has pretty much always been a comedic villain, into freaking Hitler.

11183-Eggman_06_super.jpg

Fuck you Sonic 2006. Fuuuuuuuuuck you.

Anyhow, that's a solid theory, but.... it's kinda confusing. Like, why would Rivals be between Rush 1 and 2? And how did Eggman get himself to Blaze's other dimension? And for what purpose? What does he have to gain? And isn't it implied that BOTH Blaze and Silver have a long history of battling him in their respective games? I mean, I know you can just say that Eggman Nega always was dimension hopping, but based on how Silver went back in time to stop him, don't you think he would have pursued him through Blaze's dimension to try and stop whatever insidious scheme he had up his sleeve?

I dunno, I think Sega got sloppy. Like that's new.... *coughs and points up*

Edited by EXshad

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and that neither Rivals game ever made it to Japan..

That has nothing to do with anything, especially since it was the head of Sonic Team of Japan who created this mess in the first place.

Edited by Aquaslash

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I don't care who made it; my point is that this subseries that's supposedly connected to the rest of the series was never made available in a major region. And it isn't the 1990s anymore; they specifically joined together the continuities across regions with Sonic Adventure, so we should all be operating under the same rules. If the Rivals are supposed to be part of the story, then Japan's missing a few pieces of the puzzle, and I think that's perfectly valid evidence against it.

Hell, even Chronicles made it over...why not this?

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That being said, we never got the Sonic Team-developed Sonic Jump either - and that game and more dialogue and story elements than the entire Sonic Advance trilogy put together!. It had some great character interaction between Team Sonic and displayed the characters during their free time when not fighting off Eggman's schemes (although they do end up being interrupted). And how could you not love the concept of Eggman building a machine to brainwash everybody into loving him, eh?

On a somewhat more related note, Sonic Jump was also the debut of Eggman Nega's iconic pose! Eggman was the one sporting it first though.

Edited by HunterTSF

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EggmanXEggman Nega FOREVER~

rougeifp.png

...You DO realize the two of them are related, don't you? It was explicitly stated right there in the first Sonic Rivals, that Nega is a descendent of Dr. Robotnik. Or was that a joke?

Edited by Scorch

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I think what makes Eggman Nega such an interesting foil for Eggman is not so much that he's more evil (Or that, implicitly, Eggman is "less" evil than Nega), but rather that he's at the opposite end of the evil spectrum.

Eggman seeks to conquer, control, and rule the world. His stated goal is to establish the Eggman Empire, a world completely and utterly subject to his tyrannical dictatorship.

Nega, meanwhile, has nothing to gain or lose. While he expresses a vague interest in conquest in the first Sonic Rush, in SRA he's more than content to simply blow up the world (With him still on it), in Rivals Nega has no qualms with wiping the world out of existence when his plans go sour. Tellingly in Rivals 2 the destruction of the world is actually his plan from the very beginning, as releasing the Ifirit is a means to the ultimate chaos he so desires.

Eggman is perfect order, and Eggman Nega is perfect chaos. Both are extreme opposites to be sure, but it is their motivation- and not their morality- which separates the Eggmen. Perhaps, if they share anything in common, it is their nonchalant and whimsical approach to their evildoing. Whether trying to conquer the world or simply destroy it, both scientists have a wacky, whimsical, and almost childish edge to their personalities, treating their global villainy as something akin to a game rather than with any degree of the seriousness it actually merits.

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I think what makes Eggman Nega such an interesting foil for Eggman is not so much that he's more evil (Or that, implicitly, Eggman is "less" evil than Nega), but rather that he's at the opposite end of the evil spectrum.

Eggman seeks to conquer, control, and rule the world. His stated goal is to establish the Eggman Empire, a world completely and utterly subject to his tyrannical dictatorship.

Nega, meanwhile, has nothing to gain or lose. While he expresses a vague interest in conquest in the first Sonic Rush, in SRA he's more than content to simply blow up the world (With him still on it), in Rivals Nega has no qualms with wiping the world out of existence when his plans go sour. Tellingly in Rivals 2 the destruction of the world is actually his plan from the very beginning, as releasing the Ifirit is a means to the ultimate chaos he so desires.

Eggman is perfect order, and Eggman Nega is perfect chaos. Both are extreme opposites to be sure, but it is their motivation- and not their morality- which separates the Eggmen. Perhaps, if they share anything in common, it is their nonchalant and whimsical approach to their evildoing. Whether trying to conquer the world or simply destroy it, both scientists have a wacky, whimsical, and almost childish edge to their personalities, treating their global villainy as something akin to a game rather than with any degree of the seriousness it actually merits.

I disagree. Nega seems much more serious about his plans than normal Robotnik, despite being just as "fun" as him. He also seems much less willing to give up, if the first Rush is anything to go by.

Meh, I'm not a fan of the old "Order VS Chaos" thing. The Chaos is always the greater evil. I'd like to see the Order being the eviller extreme.

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I don't care who made it; my point is that this subseries that's supposedly connected to the rest of the series was never made available in a major region. And it isn't the 1990s anymore; they specifically joined together the continuities across regions with Sonic Adventure, so we should all be operating under the same rules. If the Rivals are supposed to be part of the story, then Japan's missing a few pieces of the puzzle, and I think that's perfectly valid evidence against it.

Hell, even Chronicles made it over...why not this?

Even so, I'm willing to bet that the Rivals games ARE the reason that Eggman Nega ISN'T featured on Sonic Channel (though Chip, Werehog and Marine are?) Sonic Team seems to have intetionally created this plothole, and wants to drag it out as long as humanely possible.

Plus I hear the PSP isn't doing too hot in Japan (then again, it's not doing too hot anywhere is it), and that may factor in why there wasn't a nationwide release of the game. (it's been offered to the Japanese in many a Sonic Team held sweepstakes though)

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Dr Nega is meant to be like the older Robotnik right? Wow he's so different from what he used to be. Still, I agree totally with the original post. Having played all 4 games it does make perfect sense to me.

Though if it has been dragged out, when is the next clue to the puzzle? Will we get a Sonic Rush/ Rivals 3?

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I disagree. Nega seems much more serious about his plans than normal Robotnik, despite being just as "fun" as him. He also seems much less willing to give up, if the first Rush is anything to go by.

Meh, I'm not a fan of the old "Order VS Chaos" thing. The Chaos is always the greater evil. I'd like to see the Order being the eviller extreme.

This reminds me of this little article (but I can't remember where I readed it in the first place since I am not a role player xD).

It's funny because you can see that Sonic is a Chaotic characther: :P

Chaotic Good, “Rebel”:

A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he’s kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society.

Chaotic good combines a good heart with a free spirit.

Having said that, Egmman seems to be the Lawful Evil characther:

Lawful Evil, “Dominator”:

A lawful evil villain methodically takes what he wants within the limits of his code of conduct without regard for whom it hurts. He cares about tradition, loyalty, and order but not about freedom, dignity, or life. He plays by the rules but without mercy or compassion. He is comfortable in a hierarchy and would like to rule, but is willing to serve. He condemns others not according to their actions but according to race, religion, homeland, or social rank. He is loath to break laws or promises.

This reluctance comes partly from his nature and partly because he depends on order to protect himself from those who oppose him on moral grounds. Some lawful evil villains have particular taboos, such as not killing in cold blood (but having underlings do it) or not letting children come to harm (if it can be helped). They imagine that these compunctions put them above unprincipled villains.

Some lawful evil people and creatures commit themselves to evil with a zeal like that of a crusader committed to good. Beyond being willing to hurt others for their own ends, they take pleasure in spreading evil as an end unto itself. They may also see doing evil as part of a duty to an evil deity or master.

Lawful evil is sometimes called “diabolical,” because devils are the epitome of lawful evil. Lawful evil represents methodical, intentional, and frequently successful evil.

Also, I find interesting that, at first sight (and as Mechano said), Nega seems to be more in the Chaotic Evil side:

Chaotic Evil, “Destroyer”:

A chaotic evil character does whatever his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him.

Chaotic evil is sometimes called “demonic” because demons are the epitome of chaotic evil. Chaotic evil represents the destruction not only of beauty and life but also of the order on which beauty and life depend.

But as we have seen before, Nega is a pretty good thinker (and his teamwork with Eggman seemed far from disorganized, untill the moment he went "madworlddestroyer" mode of course :P ), so maybe he has some points that would make him a Neutral Evil:

Neutral Evil, “Malefactor”:

A neutral evil villain does whatever she can get away with. She is out for herself, pure and simple. She sheds no tears for those she kills, whether for profit, sport, or convenience. She has no love of order and holds no illusion that following laws, traditions, or codes would make her any better or more noble. On the other hand, she doesn’t have the restless nature or love of conflict that a chaotic evil villain has.

Some neutral evil villains hold up evil as an ideal, committing evil for its own sake. Most often, such villains are devoted to evil deities or secret societies.

Neutral evil represents pure evil without honor and without variation.

Though I doubt Nega is a "she" (for whatever reason this article use the female genre to refer some characters), this seems to nail it when it comes to personality, Eggman may want an age of Chaos, but I don't think he is always looking for fights (as a Chaotic Evil), and as the quote says, Neutral Evils holds Evil itself as an ideal and do things for the sake of evil itself, wich would actually fit with Nega's intention (create a world full of chaos and evil where he can do whatever he wants with it).

Maybe I was wrong when I agreed with Mechano... :P

p.d: actually, whlle searching, I found this site wich greatly expands what I found in my previously quoted article.

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Meh, I really don't think that the international release problem is all that big a thing - we got Sonic Rivals and Japan got Sonic Jump, despite both scenarios being written by Sonic Team.

Though if it has been dragged out, when is the next clue to the puzzle? Will we get a Sonic Rush/ Rivals 3?

We shall find out in one month! (E3)

I think his latest appearance in Mario & Sonic AT Vancouver Olympic is worth noting, too. Crossover titles are generally designed to showcase the finer aspects of the included franchises to wider audiences than a normal series instalment, so seeing that he was given such a large role in the DS' Adventure Tours (he serves as the primary Team Sonic villain in the first half of the game) really spoke volumes about how much Sonic Team likes the character. He was also the only non-playable character from Team Sonic's side to even make an appearance in that game aside from the badniks and small animals, so the fact that he was even included is really saying something.

Edited by HunterTSF

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