Improving One-Shot Villains

[Dr. Crusher]

Let's face it, most of Sonic's one-shot bad guys tend to be pretty lame. Whether it's because of their genericness (Doom), because of their lack of character/motivation (Mephiles), or just something else weighing them down (Whisker/Ix), usually they don't go down well (although there are exceptions if you're a hedgehog voiced by Dan Green).

So I figured, have you ladies and gentlemen ever had any ideas on how to make them a bit more nice? Any ideas can be spoke, major or minor. Design changes? Different plans? Character whiplashes? Feel free to reveal all!

NOTE: The title says so, but this does indeed go for only one-shots/dudes that have so far only appeared once, so the likes of Nega don't count. You can also include monster villains as well, such as Biolizard and Dark Gaia.

I've never really had that much ideas myself, but I suppose I've thought about changes for several of them:

Black Doom: Wouldn't tweak his design too much, just a bit so that he looks more Sonic and less Halo. He'd be interested in gathering Shadow to join him, but not be totally and utterly obsessed about it (as seen in the real ShtH). Perhaps he could learn more about Sonic and Co. via making a deal with Robotnik? (And an honest deal at that.)

Oh yeah, and change his name. I mean, really, "Black Doom"? Names don't make everything, but they could of come up with something better. I'd go ahead and give my own name ideas, but they'd probably sound cheesy and over-dramatic and just as lame as "Black Doom".

Keep the generic voice though. Dr. Claw ripoff FTW.

Erazor: Didn't really see that many problems with him, just change his look a bit so that he doesn't look so much like a Genie-Buu.

Dark Gaia: Make his design more cartoony but nonetheless creepy (ala Kirby's Dark Matter/Zero series) and give it a state of mind. Also don't make it rebel plz thxs.

King Arthur: Less "ghostly creation used as a distraction for Merlina" and more "robot used as a distraction for Merlin-Robotnik".

Also cut down on the extra armour. I'm surprised the guy can walk with those gigantic shoulder pads of his.

Johnny: Nothing really wrong, I just want to see more of him lol.

[Dejablue]

What about Wendy Witchcart?

Dark Gaia might have been the second most generic of the villians I've seen. The first being Iblis but Iblis sort of gets a pass because of Mephalis. I think Gaia needed an avatar. A smaller physical apparition that communicated with the characters sort of like Mephelis.

They should have made Black Doom look more like Wiseman from NiGHTS...I mean he already kind of did if you squint.

King Aurthur I can sort of agree with what you're getting at. He could have been a clock work robot created by evil Robotnik Merlin. Merlina really didn't have to exsist. I mean if she was slated to be the bad guy then why couldn't it have been Robotnik instead?

Edited May 16, 2010 by Dejablue

[eXtaticus]

The only real way to improve one-shot villains is to develop their backstory, plot involvement and personality, and the only way to do this is to have them feature in more media. This'll be a massive problem for the likes of Black Doom and Mephiles, as most Sonic fans will doubtlessly go ape-shit and start ranting about how Sega should never re-use characters (or, in fact, even mention anything that comes from) the Sega Studios USA era. You can't win.

[The Tenth Doctor]

Well with Sonic 4 appearing out, we I don't think we're gonna see 1 shot villains there. But what of the next story book game? I have the feeling they'll do it again there. Also wasn't Dark Gaia's smaller avatar Chip? He was his opposite....

[Solid SOAP]

Personally, I really hate one-shot villains and find pretty much all of them generic and boring with equally horrible boss battles, bar Chaos and the villains in SA2. Chaos appeared throughout the game and was given an interesting backstory back-up his appearence, he was handled fantastically. Sonic Adventure 2's villains (Gerald, G.U.N., Bioliazrd, etc) were handled well as well, I prefer Chaos as a villain to all of them but I didn't mind fighting G.U.N. throughout the game and the final battle was cool. However, every villain after that, as well as their respective boss battles have been absolutely atrocious. Metal Sonic's appearence in Heroes was utterly wasted, degrading him to this generic dragon robot cunt that wasn't fun to fight, Black Doom was horrible, just like everything else in that game, not much else to be said. I didn't beat Sonic '06 because it was too horrendous, but from what I saw Iblis was as generic as you could get, and while I adored Sonic Unleashed, Dark Gaia blew dick. I was glad he didn't butt his ugly face into the majority of the game, letting Robotnik take the limelight for the most part, but Chip's Optimus Prime rip-off boss battle was absolutely horrendous, complete with awful controls and shoddy music and just bad design in general, and the Super battle itself was pretty horrible as well. Let Robotnik be the main baddy for once in a main game, please.

[Badnik Zero]

The thing with Sonic's one shot villains is that they're all non-sentient monsters. Even Chaos was kinda flat for me, because he had no personality. Or if he did he didn't talk, he just flooded things. It's kinda boring. Make them talk. But then Mephiles talked and was kinda boring himself, wasn't he.

Erazor is probably the best example of a one-shot villain for me. More ruthless than Eggman, and he did a good job at being threatening. He was interesting because he was new too, you didn't really know what he could do. His design was the most unappealing thing about him. A purple guy with a big razor.

Black Doom... everything about ShtH's lines was terrible. He was overdone most of that game's characters. GRRAGH YES YES, SHADOW YES. Who's going to trust an alien named Black Doom. Is there anyone in the fandom who likes Black Doom? He parodies himself. I've never seen anyone defend him.

So villains like Erazor and Captain Whisker and crew are fine with me. They don't have to be the best, just make them their own characters, don't fall back on ridiculous cliches, and don't turn much loved characters into stupid metal dragons... The GUN Commander was kind of a villain. None of that crap.

[Scorch]

Black Doom... everything about ShtH's lines was terrible. He was overdone most of that game's characters. GRRAGH YES YES, SHADOW YES. Who's going to trust an alien named Black Doom. Is there anyone in the fandom who likes Black Doom? He parodies himself. I've never seen anyone defend him.

Personally, I like Black Doom. In fact, he happens to be my favorite one-shot villain in the series, next to Mephiles. I thought that he had just about all the qualities that make up a good villain (in my book, at least). He was cold, ruthless, sadistic, and power-hungry, just like a villain should be. He was also very arrogant, believing himself to be the most powerful being in the universe. Black Doom was definitely a bigger threat than Dr. Robotnik, and he's come a lot closer to succeeding with his world domination plan than Robotnik ever has (minus Sonic Adventure 2, at least). If it wasn't for the fact that Shadow was immune to that paralysis(sp?) gas in The Last Story, I think he definitely would have succeeded. Oh, and I also happen to like Black Doom's powers and abilities, if that counts for anything, as well as his dark, intimidating voice.

As for Mephiles, I just happen to be a huge fan of villains that are cunning, manipulative, and just plain psychotic. Mephiles has also proven himself to to be far more cunning and evil than Robotnik's ever been. He's also the only villain to successfully kill Sonic without even breaking a sweat. What other villain has managed to pull that off? Robotnik DID come pretty close in Sonic Adventure 2, but still.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Scorch

[Dr. Crusher]

Personally, I like Black Doom. In fact, he happens to be my favorite one-shot villain in the series, next to Mephiles. I thought that he had just about all the qualities that make up a good villain (in my book, at least). He was cold, ruthless, sadistic, and power-hungry, just like a villain should be. He was also very arrogant, believing himself to be the most powerful being in the universe. Black Doom was definitely a bigger threat than Dr. Robotnik, and he's come a lot closer to succeeding with his world domination plan than Robotnik ever has (minus Sonic Adventure 2, at least). If it wasn't for the fact that Shadow was immune to that paralysis(sp?) gas in The Last Story, I think he definitely would have succeeded. Oh, and I also happen to like Black Doom's powers and abilities, if that counts for anything, as well as his dark, intimidating voice.

As for Mephiles, I just happen to be a huge fan of villains that are cunning, manipulative, and just plain psychotic. Mephiles has also proven himself to to be far more cunning and evil than Robotnik's ever been. He's also the only villain to successfully kill Sonic without even breaking a sweat. What other villain has managed to pull that off? Robotnik DID come pretty close in Sonic Adventure 2, but still.

I agree that well constructed sadistic and ruthless villains are some of the best (these kind of villains are deemed "overused" and "tired/old/boring" but I've seen way more "Boo hoo I want revenge" and/or "Friendly enemy" baddies), and extreme egotism is always nice, but I don't really think Doom was the best developed. For obvious reasons.

I do actually like Doom however, because of how generic he is. Like I said, Shadow's game should have just been a Sonic version of Conker's Bad Fur Day. Nevertheless, he's not the most three-dimensional of villains, so he needs some improvement.

Also, I reckon you underestimate Robotnik's victories however small, even during his Post-Adventure days. He did manage to break apart the planet. Twice. And build Eggmanland. In fact, apart from the know-and-loathed betrayal of the resident monster Dark Gaia, I'd say Robotnik was rather successful in Unleashed.

Of course, no one cares about how successful Robotnik is nowadays, because OMG MEPHILES KILLED SONIC OMG SO AWESOME KAWAII SEXY LOL!!1111

Yeah, Sonic's death created as many Mephy-haters as much as Mephy-lovers. There's many other reasons of course (Shadow recolour, one-dimensional, overshadows Robotnik, made the game feel like Shadow the Hedgehog 2 Feat. Silver, etc) but that's one of the major ones. I suppose it's no surprise in that case that Mephiles is my most despised Sonic villain, tied only with Nega.

What about Wendy Witchcart?

Dark Gaia might have been the second most generic of the villians I've seen. The first being Iblis but Iblis sort of gets a pass because of Mephalis. I think Gaia needed an avatar. A smaller physical apparition that communicated with the characters sort of like Mephelis.

They should have made Black Doom look more like Wiseman from NiGHTS...I mean he already kind of did if you squint.

King Aurthur I can sort of agree with what you're getting at. He could have been a clock work robot created by evil Robotnik Merlin. Merlina really didn't have to exsist. I mean if she was slated to be the bad guy then why couldn't it have been Robotnik instead?

Wendy Witchkart? Sure, you can mention the oldies as well, as long as they are indeed (so far) one-shots. Though personally I didn't care much for Witchkart. I was more of a Kukku fan.

Black Doom does look like Wiseman, only in alien form. Must be the horns.

I see what you mean about Dark Gaia, but personally I'd have just made the big monster himself sentient. Maybe even let him talk, though he'd probably act like Metal Sonic and not speak that often. And of course he wouldn't betray Robotnik.

Now all we need is the remains of Dark Gaia's spirit-power tucked away in an upgraded Egg Dragoon and we're ready to go.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Dr. Crusher

[Scorch]

Of course, no one cares about how successful Robotnik is nowadays, because OMG MEPHILES KILLED SONIC OMG SO AWESOME KAWAII SEXY LOL!!1111

Hey, don't get me wrong. I am by no means saying that Robotnik is a bad villain because of that, but I still think that Mephiles deserves some recognition for successfully pulling something off that many other villains, including Dr. Robotnik, have failed at. Again, that doesn't mean that I'm saying Robotnik's a bad villain, as I happen like him as much as the next guy, but his schemes definitely go out of control way too often.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Scorch

[Dr. Crusher]

Sorry, I wasn't referring to you, you're okay. It's the pesky Mephiles fangirls that I was talking about. The ones that almost reach Shadow-fangirl levels. I'm sure there are some sane Mephiles fans like yourself somewhere, but like Shadow's groupies, I simply haven't found that many. Shame.

Most people, like myself, hate Mephiles' killing of Sonic because of his status as the resident latest hot-shot villain. We figure that if Sonic absolutely had to die, it should have been at the hands of Robotnik or some other old villain like Metal Sonic, someone that's one of the Sonic villain staples anyways. But no, instead the new guy comes along and makes short work of him, not only making Robotnik/Metal Sonic/etc look completely and utterly useless by comparison, but also making Sonic look like a redshirt. Sonic's the main freaking character, and while we would have preferred him not dying at all, we reckon that he should have died after an epic Metal Sonic battle, or a losing struggle against the cold steel hands of Robotnik's latest (AND GREATEST) creation, dying in battle at least. Alas, instead Sonic gets killed by a surprise laser from behind after being distracted by a pretty light. A grand childhood hero... with a tired mundane death. What a waste.

You might argue that Super Paper Mario did this with Dimentio, but no. Mario and the gang were only sent to the Underwhere, they weren't actually dead. I wouldn't have minded if something like this happened to Sonic courtesy of Mephiles, nor would I have minded if, like Robotnik in SA2, we/they thought he was dead. But of course, the truth is upsetting... he was killed. For real. By Mephiles.

So now it doesn't matter what Robotnik does - he could defeat Super Sonic, he could create Eggmanland, he could conquer the universe and all dimensions for all we know... but in the end, it will all be compared with the one victory badge that the b**tard little Shadow recolour managed to steal from him: the death of Sonic the Hedgehog.

So basically, thanks to Mephiles, Robotnik now has a whole new weight on his shoulders.

Also, yes, Robotnik's plans have gone out of control far too much. In fact, here's a full list of these annoying events:

Sonic Adventure: Chaos betrays him. Robotnik tries to take him down on his own, but fails.

Sonic Adventure 2: Robotnik wouldn't have won in this situation anyways. Robotnik's forced to team up with Sonic and Co. when the ARK falls to Earth, which was Gerald's (and Shadow's) plan all along. Even the side of good is tricking him - Rouge for the government. "Tricking that old doctor is just too easy!" Sadly, this would continue to be proven true...

Sonic Heroes: Locked up in his own base. For the whole game. While the traitor, Metal f***ing Sonic, was disguised as him. (Seriously, who the f*** came up with that idea?) Robotnik teams up with Sonic and Co. and does... nothing.

Sonic Battle: Psycho Emerl just kind of smacks Robotnik unconcious I suppose, while Sonic continues to fight (and kill) him. Shame too, beforehand Robotnik was pleasantly evil.

Sonic Advance 3: This one's probably expected seeing as how we're talking about Gizoid robots - G-Mel betrays Robotnik and transforms into Gemerillo, which Robotnik teams up with Super Sonic and goes to fight him. At least he's taking part, better than being useless.

Shadow the Hedgehog: Black Doom renders Robotnik (and the Sonic gang) useless by paralyzing them (which just felt like a cop out IMO, way to excuse their uselessness), and Robotnik joins the Sonic crew to root for Shadow like mindless little fangirls. Oh yeah, he also admits that Shadow's the real true ultimate lifeform, suggesting that not only is he getting far too f***ing soft, but also that SEGA thinks we're retarded.

Sonic Rush: I wouldn't have counted this since he is the final boss, but after seeing a certain other thread, Nega would have probably betrayed Robotnik after the victory, therefore making a lose-lose situation ala SA2.

Sonic the Hedgehog 2006: Robontik only serves as something for Sonic to beat up, while the important villains, Mephiles and Iblis, are defeated by the important heroes, Shadow and Silver, and of course Mephiles kills Sonic. Robotnik then decides to be useless again and, after reviving Sonic, becomes a rooting cheerleader once more. I would have redeemed the scenario if Robotnik danced around Sonic's dead body happily, but then people would complain that Robotnik shouldn't be hating his f***ing enemy.

Sonic Rivals: Robontik gets owned from the beginning. Nega turns him into a card and disguises as him for all of Rivals, which Sonic and Knuckles don't even find out about. No, the ones that know are the important ones, Shadow and Silver. In the end he just kind of transports Shadow and Silver to Meteor Base.

Sonic Rush Adventure: Again, originally wouldn't have counted this, but just like SA2 and Rush, Robotnik would have lost anyways, seeing as how Nega was going to destroy everyone/everything in the end. Dammit, as I said, even when being the final boss, he still gets screwed over.

Sonic Rivals 2: Again, gets owned from the start. Robotnik just sits in a room and uses Metal Sonic as a Robotnik communicator for Shadow as he (being the important hero) stops Nega and Ifrit as well as Metal Sonic 3.0, a crappy G-Mel painted Metal recolour. Along with him is the other important hero, Silver. (Also Espio.) Meanwhile Sonic/Tails/Knuckles/Rouge again don't even know about "Robotnik's" true identity and get mind controlled by Ifrit. Because naturally, they're not important.

Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity: The MeteorTech Army decides to rebel and create a big black hole. Robotnik wimps out and flees like a bitch.

Sonic Unleashed: Dark Gaia smacks him aside. Own robots proceed to laugh at him.

Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood: Robots get controlled by Ix's forces, but luckily the ending is satisfying...

Even Bowser isn't that unlucky.

You know something's wrong if it would be more of a shocking plot twist if your series main villain was the real mastermind/final boss.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Dr. Crusher

[Frozen Nitrogen]

So now it doesn't matter what Robotnik does - he could defeat Super Sonic, he could create Eggmanland, he could conquer the universe and all dimensions for all we know... but in the end, it will all be compared with the one victory badge that the b**tard little Shadow recolour managed to steal from him: the death of Sonic the Hedgehog.

So basically, thanks to Mephiles, Robotnik now has a whole new weight on his shoulders.

While I am no means a Mephiles apologist (he says, while writing an apologia for Mephiles), I do think you're giving the black fog a bit more credit than he deserves. He is A GOD. THe fact that it takes him that fucking long before he manages to kebab skewer Sonic serves only as a demonstration of how hard it is to do.

And frankly, unless Sonic's getting killed in an epic battle with Robotnik in the way you mentioned, I'd rather it be in a cheap and abrupt manner like this. Mephiles' casual spikeing serves to demonstrate quite how alien the demigod is: that he can kill off the hero with merely a wave of his hand, but can't put two and two together to work out that this is what he should have done from the start.

[Dr. Crusher]

I see what you mean, but I was mostly talking about the fans themselves. A little thing like "time" won't stop them from bashing "silly egghead" and fawning over "kawaii Mephy :3".

Bah.

But anyways, we're getting sidetracked, my apologies. Ignore my rantings, carry on with the topic!

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Even Bowser isn't that unlucky.

Ironically, I'd say Bowser's worse off than Eggman on the count that he has very little variation in any of his plots outside of "capture the princess, then wait for Mario".

Out of the many times Eggman has been betrayed or upstaged, his plans had some substance on the count of him not waiting for Sonic to come and save the day. He's gonna lose in the end somehow, but he's not going to wait for him to lose.

[Vertekins]

Erazor is probably the best example of a one-shot villain for me. More ruthless than Eggman, and he did a good job at being threatening. He was interesting because he was new too, you didn't really know what he could do. His design was the most unappealing thing about him. A purple guy with a big razor.

Same here. But what made Erazor interesting was how manipulative he was. If he wasn't forcing Sonic to get World Rings for him with no ultimatum, he was manipulating Shahra's feelings for him in order to get a result. He is conniving to the extreme and if Shahra hadn't intercepted his death strike on Sonic, Sonic would've been dead. Even after he got his ass handed to him courtesy of Darkspine he was still unstoppable until the deus ex machina the lamp conviniently sealed him.

Yeah, Erazor is pretty underrated when it comes to villain accomplishments in the Sonic series. He is one of the very few characters who murdered anyone on screen.

And let me add that it seems that Erazor's english voice seems to go some way to people not taking him seriously. Contrast his english voice with his japanese one - the japanese one is so unbelievably evil and sinister. He sounds a heck more threatening then Takayuki Sakazume/Dan Green ever could for Mephiles. Only voice that comes close in terms of sheer evil is Deem Bristow's voice in Sonic Adventure when Eggman threatens Tails in the Egg Walker.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Verte

[Frozen Nitrogen]

Only voice that comes close in terms of sheer evil is Deem Bristow's voice in Sonic Adventure when Eggman threatens Tails in the Egg Walker.

Oh man I'd forgotten about that. The Eggs-Man really turns it up to eleven there. I think part of it comes from the fact that, even before Speed Highway, Robotnik knows (says!) he's finished; Eg Carrier destroyed, plans ruined. There's only one thing more for him to do in the game: kill fucking everyone.

"Away, you fool. Before I make mincemeat out of you."

[Vertekins]

Oh man I'd forgotten about that. The Eggs-Man really turns it up to eleven there. I think part of it comes from the fact that, even before Speed Highway, Robotnik knows (says!) he's finished; Eg Carrier destroyed, plans ruined. There's only one thing more for him to do in the game: kill fucking everyone.

"Away, you fool. Before I make mincemeat out of you."

It was sheer awesome and undoubtedly the most sinister Robotnik has ever been next to how he says "Put the emerald down right there and back...orf!" in the infamous capsule scene in SA2. It's moments like that that make you see just how malevolent Eggman can be, it just reinforces his quintessential Sonic villain status.

I don't really care what anyone says, when Eggman is competent, he is very competent in such a badass way.

Such a pity Mr Bristow passed away. He was one fine Eggman and a excellent voice actor to boot. Not to say I don't enjoy Mike's Eggman because his voice is awesome. It always seems that Eggman consistently gets excellent VA's.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Verte

[Scorch]

Ironically, I'd say Bowser's worse off than Eggman on the count that he has very little variation in any of his plots outside of "capture the princess, then wait for Mario".

True, but you've got to admit that his plan in the first Paper Mario has probably outdone any other he's ever come up with. He stole the wish-granting Star Rod, and used it to make himself invincible, so that Mario wouldn't be able to defeat him. He also captured the Star Spirits, who were capable of piercing through his invincibility barrier, and had guarded in all these seperate locations to make sure Mario wouldn't be able to save them. Other than that, though, I agree. I don't think much of Bowser as a villain, myself, and there's tons of other villains in the Mario series that have proven themselves to be far more cunning, evil, and psychotic than he's Bowser's even been. I personally think Bowser is much better at being an anti-hero, but maybe that's just me.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

True, but you've got to admit that his plan in the first Paper Mario has probably outdone any other he's ever come up with. He stole the wish-granting Star Rod, and used it to make himself invincible, so that Mario wouldn't be able to defeat him. He also captured the Star Spirits, who were capable of piercing through his invincibility barrier, and had guarded in all these seperate locations to make sure Mario wouldn't be able to save them. Other than that, though, I agree.

Even then, it was the same "wait for Mario"-scheme he's always pulled when he was the main threat. Only difference is that he went out of his way to make sure Mario wouldn't beat him that time, but it still lack any substance compared to Eggnman's quests for world conquest.

[Sean]

In a world filled with stupid-looking cartoon animals with special abilities, you'd expect there to be more colorful antagonists like Mojo Jojo and Doofenshmirtz (best bad guys ever).

Instead what we get is the worst array of villains to ever grace a video game series.

[Badnik Zero]

Yeah, Erazor is pretty underrated when it comes to villain accomplishments in the Sonic series.

It wasn't just that he killed her either. He shoots her dead and then calls her stupid and weak. Seconds after asking her to be his queen. The dude is cold.

I don't think there have been villains as spiteful as Erazor. And you're right about the voice, I hadn't considered it. Japanese Erazor sounds like Eddie from GGX2.

[Glenn]

ISuch a pity Mr Bristow passed away. He was one fine Eggman and a excellent voice actor to boot. Not to say I don't enjoy Mike's Eggman because his voice is awesome. It always seems that Eggman consistently gets excellent VA's.

Absolutely yes.

Even in games where Eggman's been sidelined, his voice acting (and therefore overall attitude) has been magnificent. Moments like, in Sonic the Hedgehog (2006), making his grand entrance: "A pleasure to meet you at last, Princess of Soleanna! Allow me to introduce myself: I am Doctor Eggman!" Standard stuff, script-wise, but it sounds so incredibly sinister and dramatic it gives me chills. Or indeed, just listening to the Eggman voice clips in Sonic Rush, like "Get ready to be schooled!!" and "Heehee!!"

I was talking about this subject with Mahzes recently. How the modern games seem to sideline Eggman for the monster-of-the-week plot device. It was interesting and worked okay in Sonic Adventure (from what cutscenes I've seen on YouTube/read of the script) but since then, every major Sonic game wants to try and copy the success. Alas, that lands us with such things as BIG CRAZY FIRE BEAST, aka Iblis, and RANDOM PLANT CORE EYEBALL THING, aka Dark Gaia. Playing Sonic Unleashed just goes to show how frustrating this can be, since the most rewarding and spectacular boss fight of perhaps the entire Sonic history is the HD encounter with the Egg Dragoon. Here, Eggman is on fine form: "This gorge will be your tomb!", "Here's one for the road, Sonic!" and going almost suicidal, prompting Sonic to yell "Whoa! Chill out, Eggman!" Compared to that, the encounter with Dark Gaia is just laughable.

So improving the monsters-of-the-week shouldn't really be on the agenda. I think Sonic's true nemesis is always Eggman, and the next main game (not counting DLC-only Sonic the Hedgehog 4 in this) should return to the proper formula of making him the primary focus.

[Dr. Crusher]

Of course! I agree that Robotnik needs to get his groove on much more often, that goes without question. I merely wondered what others had thought about regarding their ideal "improvements" for Iblis and other such mosnters/baddies.

Now that you guys mention it, Erazor was badass. I still didn't like the whole "Arabian Nights storybook" concept (and soonafter the "Knights of the Round Table" storybook), but Erazor was an epic fiend. He seemed to have the basics - formidable, persistent, vile, cares only about himself... yes. That's my kind of villain. It should be noted that Erazor's one of the few Not-Robotnik villains that I do like.

I personally loved his introduction - it does help your supposed "threatening" enemy when you see other characters becoming fearful about his arrival. "He's here!"

He also has nice ideas for evil lairs. Flying stingray fleets? A bright space palace? They're no Death Eggs or Eggmanlands, but they're good enough.

And as with Marine's austrailian language-butchering, Erazor's over-the-top voice didn't really bother me. Having said that however, I've just heard the Japanese Erazor, and damn it's awesome.

Speaking of voices, I thought King Arthur had a fairly nice one.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Dr. Crusher

[Unknownlight]

King Arthur: Less "ghostly creation used as a distraction for Merlina" and more "robot used as a distraction for Merlin-Robotnik".

Merlina's betrayal was probably the best twist the Sonic series has pulled since SA2. Not to mention, I personally feel she's one of the best villains to grace the series—cold, cunning, but with a gray mortality and with an ideal that almost makes her seem like the hero and Sonic the villain (which Sonic mentions [paraphrased]: "I told you! I don't mind being the bad guy once and a while.") Why on earth you would rather the game have the predictable "twist" of Eggman being behind it is beyond me.

[Dejablue]

Merlina's betrayal was probably the best twist the Sonic series has pulled since SA2. Not to mention, I personally feel she's one of the best villains to grace the series—cold, cunning, but with a gray mortality and with an ideal that almost makes her seem like the hero and Sonic the villain (which Sonic mentions [paraphrased]: "I told you! I don't mind being the bad guy once and a while.") Why on earth you would rather the game have the predictable "twist" of Eggman being behind it is beyond me.

Good point. I guess people just couldn't stand the thought of Eggman not being in the game.

I appreciate gray morality a lot. Especially when most of the time the series has very strict black and white morality.

I guess I'd appreciate one shot villians who look more like they derive from the Sonic style. Monsters like Iblis and Dark Gaia seem to clash aesthetically with Sonic in my opinion.

[psikeout]

I guess I'd appreciate one shot villians who look more like they derive from the Sonic style. Monsters like Iblis and Dark Gaia seem to clash aesthetically with Sonic in my opinion.

That'd be nice, as long as they don't come out like you-know-who.

Although I guess he's still better than some alternatives. But, yeah, there really is something more dynamic about having villains that look like they fit in with the cast. Remember how satisfying it was to finally get to attack Knuckles for the first time back in S3&K?