Improving One-Shot Villains

[Glenn]

But, yeah, there really is something more dynamic about having villains that look like they fit in with the cast. Remember how satisfying it was to finally get to attack Knuckles for the first time back in S3&K?

Having just started Sonic Advance 3, I can totally agree. Gemerl keeps popping up and fighting him is much more fun than Eggman's eventual boss-machine nightmare, not to mention much more appreciated than a generic *insert monster here* boss.

[Unionhack]

Well with Sonic 4 appearing out, we I don't think we're gonna see 1 shot villains there. But what of the next story book game? I have the feeling they'll do it again there. Also wasn't Dark Gaia's smaller avatar Chip? He was his opposite....

The next story book game? Oh gawd, there's some possibilities.

Sonic and Captain Ahab?

20,000 Leagues Under the Hydrocity Zone?

Sonic and Lord of the Rings? (Kinda makes sense If you think about it...)

I could go on...

[The Tenth Doctor]

I personally liked Mephiles. He was cunning and manipulative. Good for a one off, though they should make him appear in another area like the comics. He was modelled to be like other Sonic characters (specifically Shadow) but at least he wasn't a giant monster.....yet.

I think you guys are right on Erazor. He is one bad dude, but his voice is just so bad. He sounds like a cowboy!

Also on Eggman's voices, Mike has done a good job for me. Not as evil as Mr Bristow (Away! Before I make Mincemeat out of you!) yet still has charm. His evil laugh is awesome.

[agoodusername]

I think that Black Doom and Mephiles were good as is, they completed their purposes as being creepier enemies, and all were very tempting characters and reminded me of the story of Satan tempting Jesus in the Bible... of course, I would never compare Shadow to Jesus... One of them are freaking awesome (Jesus) and one of them just need to get over their 'Oh my life sucks, my girlfriend is dead and I'm so emo, why are these visions haunting me, I have to be over dramatic about everything attitude (um... Shadow)

Dark Gaia was a very cool enemy, the first Sonic enemy that made me cringe the first time I saw him and his awesome design. I think he was a great enemy as is.

Erazor Djin was perfect, he still remains my favorite villain because of his casual attitude, I mean, everything about his personality just seemed perfect. He was kind of a normal guy, albeit he had a few times when he seemed extremely cold and brutal (for example when something very bad happened to one of the games characters [i can't find the spoiler warning button thing so I just have to say that for the kiddies who didn't play this amazing game]I

I think Whisker doesn't need any fixing because he was mainly just made for comic relief, especially because SEGA thought that Sonic was just for 12 years old boys back then (Screw you Simon Jeffery!) of course, I am guilty of liking the good Cap.

I think that Johnny was one of the stupidest characters we've seen from SEGA, I mean, it seemed like he was such a forced character. I would've been okay if he actually had a major purpose in the story, rather than being just some character that shows up during one boss fight and races you on your way to get the chaos emeralds for no reason, I mean, he is essentially an unnecessary robot copy of Jet. Also, his voice was way too clear, robot's shouldn't have voices that are that clear, so then, why did Metal Sonic and the floaty Eggman TV thing from Shadow have echoes and static respectively in their voices? The same goes for whisker too.

I can't say anything about the whole game sucked, and by association, he sucked... in my own opinion of course.

Having just started Sonic Advance 3, I can totally agree. Gemerl keeps popping up and fighting him is much more fun than Eggman's eventual boss-machine nightmare, not to mention much more appreciated than a generic *insert monster here* boss.

Just wait until you get all seven chaos emeralds and have to fight the final boss... the music really pisses me off since once he gets down so far it just repeats the same 5 second passage in the song over and over.

Edited May 22, 2010 by Edge

[agoodusername]

That'd be nice, as long as they don't come out like you-know-who.

Although I guess he's still better than some alternatives. But, yeah, there really is something more dynamic about having villains that look like they fit in with the cast. Remember how satisfying it was to finally get to attack Knuckles for the first time back in S3&K?

I actually thought that void was a girl the first time I saw him...

[Badnik Zero]

Johnny had a pretty cool design though. His head was shaped like a shark torpedo thing, which was just so fitting for a speed rival on the sea. Of course he didn't have much story outside of being the emerald bad guy. But then he's kind of like a modern Fang that way. I like Johnny except for his voice.

[Dr. Crusher]

Johnny's voice doesn't bother me as much as it does for others I guess.

I was actually glad Johnny didn't have such a big role - no, unlike all those other emo traitor-bots that stole the show, Johnny was proud and loyal, doing his damn job without complaints. So was Whisker. Add that to the whole "lol robot pirate" theme and you've got kickass machines. Too bad Whisker looked too much like Robotnik, though I'd rather have him as a "Robotnik counterpart" rather than Nega - at least Whisker's different.

Unfortunately... well, yeah, he's kind of dead after the whole Ghost Titan incident... BUT JOHNNY LIVES ON. ALL IS possibly NOT LOST.

Merlina's betrayal was probably the best twist the Sonic series has pulled since SA2. Not to mention, I personally feel she's one of the best villains to grace the series—cold, cunning, but with a gray mortality and with an ideal that almost makes her seem like the hero and Sonic the villain (which Sonic mentions [paraphrased]: "I told you! I don't mind being the bad guy once and a while.") Why on earth you would rather the game have the predictable "twist" of Eggman being behind it is beyond me.

Meh. Merlina's betrayal also surprised me, but not in the good way. It just didn't feel right IMO, like it was forced. It's as if they designed it just so they could make that wonderful "moral of the story" in which Sonic basically promotes death. Yeah yeah, I know it's not meant to sound like that, and the whole "I don't mind being the bad guy" thing, but that didn't seem cool and badass to me - it just sounded stupid. I know Sonic's all about "attitude" and "not following the rules", but it still felt out of place.

Besides, they said that "Merlin" created the false Arthur - it was right there! The perfect opportunity to have Merlin-Robotnik proudly proclaim COMETH AND GET THY LOAD OF THUS on a giant old-fashioned medieval machine of destruction! All there! ...but sadly tossed aside for the sake of good old "moral standards". *sigh*

And above all else, Rush Adventure not withstanding, I generally would be surprised if Robotnik was the man behind the man for once, after all those times he's been the latter "man".

As for the whole "morality" thing... I suppose it depends on characters. I don't mind it, and it does make things interesting when new dudes come on into the scene, but I do tend to prefer generally good people as heroes and proper evil b**tards as villains (perferably ones that are mostly comical and funny overall, but with subtle dark intentions/actions - also, you know, competent) I just never was a fan of the "dirtied hero" or the "Team Rocket main villain", hence why Sonic's "villainous" nature striked me as unpleasant in SatBK.

Eh, that's just my views anyway.

Edited May 23, 2010 by Dr. Crusher

[Unknownlight]

Meh. Merlina's betrayal also surprised me, but not in the good way. It just didn't feel right IMO, like it was forced. It's as if they designed it just so they could make that wonderful "moral of the story" in which Sonic basically promotes death. Yeah yeah, I know it's not meant to sound like that, and the whole "I don't mind being the bad guy" thing, but that didn't seem cool and badass to me - it just sounded stupid. I know Sonic's all about "attitude" and "not following the rules", but it still felt out of place.

I never really viewed that as Sonic trying to be cool (even though the writers obviously meant it to be that way), it seemed to me more...ironic. (That's not really the word I mean, but I can't think of any other word.) As for Merlina's betrayal being forced...meh, I didn't see that way, but I easily see how someone could. Just different opinions there.

Besides, they said that "Merlin" created the false Arthur - it was right there! The perfect opportunity to have Merlin-Robotnik proudly proclaim COMETH AND GET THY LOAD OF THUS on a giant old-fashioned medieval machine of destruction! All there! ...but sadly tossed aside for the sake of good old "moral standards". *sigh*

But that was Merlina's motivation, remember? "The King Arthur my grandfather Merlin created led to nothing but mistakes. But I can succeed with the power of the scabbard [...]"

And above all else, Rush Adventure not withstanding, I generally would be surprised if Robotnik was the man behind the man for once, after all those times he's been the latter "man".

Good point. But I think it'd be a better twist ending if Eggman started the conflict of the game by releasing a monster...and the monster doesn't betray him at the end! XD

As for the whole "morality" thing... I suppose it depends on characters. I don't mind it, and it does make things interesting when new dudes come on into the scene, but I do tend to prefer generally good people as heroes and proper evil b**tards as villains (perferably ones that are mostly comical and funny overall, but with subtle dark intentions/actions - also, you know, competent) I just never was a fan of the "dirtied hero" or the "Team Rocket main villain", hence why Sonic's "villainous" nature striked me as unpleasant in SatBK.

One of the reasons I liked the "gray mortality" is SatBK is simply because it's different. No Sonic game has tried doing it, and no Sonic game will probably ever do it again. I found it interesting and, well, exciting to see the story writers expanding their horizon with the Sonic stories, not making it just another Pure Hero vs. Evil Baddie.

Anyway, I liked it. =/

[Saint Nathan]

and the whole "I don't mind being the bad guy" thing, but that didn't seem cool and badass to me - it just sounded stupid. I know Sonic's all about "attitude" and "not following the rules", but it still felt out of place.

It's not so much about being the bad guy. Sonic does what is GOOD. He's taken down the military just because they were preventing him from doing what he should. He's joined forces with his nemesis in order to save the day.

It wasn't that he was fine with being a bad guy, it's the fact that he KNEW he was doing the right thing. Even if being a king-killer made him the lowest of the low, he went ahead and did the right thing. He never went grey, and I doubt he ever will.

[EKIP]

Big fat problem with sonic games nowdays. SONIC IS SUPPOSED TO FIGHT ROBOTS. Villains that are not robots do not fit. The best sonic games were the old ones, everyone agree? Well, NONE of the old ones had organic bosses. If they wanted us to take Eggman seriously, and they clearly do not, they would call him Robotnik and make him actually powerfull and not just a stepping stone for some lame monster that's gonna destroy everything. Oh, and if you are going to fight a robot, make it one of Robotnik's robots, not a lame regular police robot.

[Dr. Crusher]

Careful there son. You might start another Robotnik VS Eggman war, and we don't want that.

But yes, robots are the ultimate Sonic enemies, especially cartoony Robotnik-made robots. Everything else, robot or otherwise, has either been too realistic or just plain boring.

[agoodusername]

But yes, robots are the ultimate Sonic enemies, especially cartoony Robotnik-made robots. Everything else, robot or otherwise, has either been too realistic or just plain boring.

I do think that fighting organic enemies work well in spin-off games though. I mean, naturally robot's wouldn't fare very well in Sonic and the Secret Rings (I mean, the Ifrit being a robot seemed a little forced), I think that organic enemies did work well in Shadow and Chronicles as well. 06 seemed unnecessary since it never once in a cutscene showed a character fighting those demon things.

[Dr. Crusher]

It's not so much that he's not fighting Badniks - it's because all the new enemies are bland. They usually just have different colours or shields or swords or whatever. I'd rather fight Metal Sonic-esque birds (Kukku) rather than boring Godzilla-esque lava lizards (Iblis/Mephiles).

C'mon SEGA - take notes from Mario, or even the old Crash Bandicoot/Spyro games. There must be variety for all foes and obstacles!

Seriously, Black Arm T-Rexes anyone?

[agoodusername]

Seriously, Black Arm T-Rexes anyone?

That's an amazing idea! I want to draw that now!

[Dr. Crusher]

Exactly - even if Robotnik's not the baddie, that doesn't mean all the enemies have to be so damn generic. Just like Mario - with or without Bowser, Mario's enemies still have variety.

Sonic's Not-Robotnik enemies have ranged from generic robots (G.U.N) to generic military soldiers (G.U.N again) to generic Halo aliens (Black Arms) to generic Godzilla monsters (Iblis and Mephiles/Dark Gaia), generic genies, generic knights, generic everything really. There's no unique ideas of colourful creative minds put to the test.

Meanwhile when not dealing with Koopas, Mario's got his hands full with purple mushroom aliens and scientific midgets that say "dude" a lot complete with Robotnik's offspring a large ham commander and a humorless leader. And that's before we come across the Fawful-edited Magikoopas and bi-pedal crocodiles with nice big teeth.

Of course it's still better when we're fighting good old Robotnik/Bowser, but you get the idea.