Rethinking Eggman and Tails' conversation at the end of SA2

[Blazey Firekitty]

Okay, first things, first...

I was hesitant about posting something like this, because I've said a couple things in the past vaguely related to this topic that were pretty dumb.

Firstly, I, at one point, suggested the interactions between Tails and Eggman in Chronicles could lead to something romantic. I'm not sure what sort of alien moon powder I was inhaling that day.

Secondly, I suggested somewhat recently that Eggman's criminal career could have started because he was mad at what happened to Gerald. I feel that this was a pretty dumb thing to say, given that a lot of Eggman's charm as a villain comes from his playful nature, and to have him become a super-villain because he was angry at the world makes thing kind of depressing.

At any rate, to the topic at hand. I'm basically going to go out of my way to over-analyze what was probably one of the more infamous lines in the series, perhaps one of the fandom's equivalents of "WHAT AM I FIGHTING FOR" or "I WAS TO BE THE ONE TO FILL YOUR DARK SOUL WITH LIGHT."

At the end of Sonic Adventure 2, Ivo Robotnik stands upon the arc looking at the stars, talking to Tails. While calm and eloquent as he speaks, he is also being almost uncharacteristically emotional, since, while a "cute" Eggman was nothing new, an Eggman expressing actual human sentiments was mostly unheard of, especially since Sonic X had not been conceived of yet.

It was also pretty strange to see Ivo confiding in Tails, of all people. Granted, they were counterparts during the game, each being the "shooting stage" characters, but in terms of the actual story, Tails is the last person he should be bearing his soul to, given that he launched Sonic into space with full intent of killing him, sending Tails into a vengeful rage.

As is probably pretty well known at this board, Tails's response, at least in the English version, came across pretty awkwardly, since, well, he's shouting in fit of random happiness after Eggman has just given an emotional speech about things that he probably hasn't told anyone for years.

I think that part of the problem, honestly, may not have been Tails' voice acting alone, but the incomplete formation of his character. As I alluded to before, "Modern Sonic" was still a young concept, and it's possible that Tails' personality was still growing as much as Eggman's was. From my point of view, at least, this seems supported by Tails acting in a more subtle way in later games, mainly, in my experience, the Rush games.

I guess what I'm really trying to get at, with this wall of text, is that maybe Tails' closing lines aren't so bad, but they were simply delivered the wrong way. Eggman's pleased "You're right" after Tails speaks to him suggests to me that, while we the audience see a random fit of screaming, the actual lines themselves were meant to possess some sort of emotional value.

I think the scene would have ultimately felt a lot more natural had Tails' speech and body language been more appropriate. I think perhaps the scene may have originally been planned to flow more like this:

EGGMAN: *speaking in a happy, reverent tone*As a child, I looked up to my grandfather because of all the great

things he accomplished in his life. He was my hero, and I wanted to be

a great scientist like him.

EGGMAN: *awkward pause, puts his hand in the air as his voice becomes more worried, almost disturbed* But... did he really mean to destroy us?

TAILS: *sad frown, staring at the floor, at a loss for words* I don't know. *slowly looks up to Eggman, slowly smiling with renewed hope* But what I do know is...we all did it together.

EGGMAN: *somewhat shocked look towards Tails, then a playful grin and rub of his chin* You're right.

Edited May 22, 2010 by BlazeyBakeneko

[Diogenes]

Interestingly, that conversation was apparently longer, originally:

(starting from the normal end of the conversation)

Tails: "Where are you going?"

Eggman:" Next time, I will pull this off without anyone's help. I will use my own power to take over the world"

Eggman:" Next time we meet, all bets are off!"

Tails: "Same here!

Kind of a shame they cut it, as it gives the conversation a better resolution (and cements Eggman's role as a bad guy; I remember people wondering if he'd gone good, before Heroes was announced).

As for Tails' line, while I've never found it to be all that terrible (it pales in comparison to Heroes' "super power of teamwork", at any rate), it's a bit of a nonsequitur and definitely poorly acted. It definitely would've helped if it wasn't a half-shout, but I think the writers kind of flubbed it as well.

Hm, has anyone ever checked how that line's delivered in Japanese? Is it the same half-shout, or more subdued?

[Badnik Zero]

This scene makes me laugh because it's such an "Oh Tails" moment. I actually think it's perfect for a few reasons.

1. Eggman and everyone on board is still reeling from the Biolizard and the ARK falling. They've been brought closer by this experience, like how you might hug a total stranger during a bank robbery. Eggman is not necessarily talking to Tails. He's probably musing out loud, in response to this disaster. It's natural dialogue.

2. Tails is prone to awkwardness and uncertainty, both Adventure games make this clear. This same line would sound a lot better coming from Sonic, but that's what's so great about it. Tails is remaining positive and friendly in his own fashion. He's reaching out to Eggman. Maybe this is a way of comforting him.

People give this line too much trouble. Tails is being Tails. SA2's ending is perfect here. It also recognizes some kind of affinity Tails and Eggman might have with each other, which were my favorite interactions in Chronicles. It may not have been intended to be funny, but the awkwardness is fitting and possibly intentional.

[Tori Himemiya]

Interestingly, that conversation was apparently longer, originally:

(starting from the normal end of the conversation)

Tails: "Where are you going?"

Eggman:" Next time, I will pull this off without anyone's help. I will use my own power to take over the world"

Eggman:" Next time we meet, all bets are off!"

Tails: "Same here!

Kind of a shame they cut it, as it gives the conversation a better resolution (and cements Eggman's role as a bad guy; I remember people wondering if he'd gone good, before Heroes was announced).

Oddly enough they kept the uncut version even in the dub of Sonic X. His convo with Tails is not exactly word for word but is very simular to the cutted parts of the last scene.

Don't mind the dubiness again.

It sounds like Eggman secertly wants Tails for his own purposes. No not for his pingas purposes! But luckly for Sonic Tails won't help Eggman unless the world needs saving like SA2's last arc.

Edit: Not very important but... 700 posts!

Edited May 22, 2010 by Misery Malice

[Blazey Firekitty]

It's interesting that Diogenes should mention that people were wondering if Eggman had gone good, before Heroes...since I was one of those people.XD Nice to know after all these years that I wasn't the only one.^^

Looking at the clip that Misery posted...I find it interesting that in Sonic X, Eggman is on a spaceship instead of being next to Tails.XD It's kind of hilarious how quickly Eggman switches from being saddened by his grandfather's actions to going into full supervillain mode again.XD

I also kind of like the way Amy looks as Tails starts talking...To me, she looks completely and utterly confused, like she forgot her lines or something.X3

But yeah...I like Dabnikz's take on the scene. It kind of makes it more touching, in a way, for Eggman to just kind of be talking aloud, and then Tails trying to comfort him in his own awkward child genius style. I guess it would make sense for Tails to try to reach out to him at that point, in hindsight. He'd told Eggman that he would never forgive him, after Sonic was shot into space...but then, like you said, Dabnikz, the disaster at the end of the game brought the characters closer in ways that they wouldn't have been normally. Tails trying to cheer Eggman up with a bit of optimism seems to fit with Sonic Adventure 2's apparent theme of "People are basically good, even if they sometimes do horrible things."

[Dr. Crusher]

I won't lie - despite being a fan of the more ULTIMATE EVIL OF IRREDEEMABLE MAGNIFICENCE 100% evil villains (as long as they're well made), I do find the exchanges between Robotnik and Tails... interesting.

Seeing as how he, like old Ivo, is mad about science and technology, and add that to his child-like nature, I can see how Tails would look at Robotnik in a more positive light more than Sonic and the others, in that whole "What a genius, if only he used his knowledge for good instead of evil..." sense. Robotnik however, as I would see it, would think differently. He doesn't exactly like the fox, he just tends to tolerate him let alone respect his smarts more than the usual COOL 'TUDE EXTREME BUZZ WORDS crazy fast impatient-to-understand feeling you tend to get from most of the Sonic crew (I'm looking at you, Amy).

In fact, I can see Robotnik pulling a Vader and trying to take in Tails to join the Dar-... sorry, Egg Empire, though he wouldn't be entirely obsessed/that bothered about it like Doom and Mephiles were with Shadow. It's less "I really really REALLY wish you would understand the true nature of this pathetic world" and more "Join me Tails, and I will make your machines the GRRRREATEST in South Island! ...Or else you will DIE." Well, it'd be better than that, but you get the idea. He doesn't care that much either way - because as far as he's concerned, all he truly cares about includes everything that exists on a Egg-Leash and Sonic's head on a plate.

Still, nice goings on between Miles and Ivo.