Jump to content
Awoo.

Does SEGA Even HAVE to Listen to Us?


Ebby

Recommended Posts

As we all know, the Sonic fanbase is a difficult because Sonic fans can't seem to agree on anything and, for the most part, there's this general agreement that the entire franchise went downhill after Sonic Adventure 2 and hasn't come back from that tumble. Most Sonic fans would say that a big problem with new games are whacked out game/plot ideas (Sonic 06, Shadow the Hedgehog), terrible gimmick ideas (Sonic Unleashed's Werehog), new characters with each new game, and lastly good concepts but horribly executed games. For that last one I think Heroes has to be the best example. Great ideas, good and unexpected story... but terrible execution for a game that could have been amazing instead of mediocre.

However, I've noticed that despite all of the complains we have, we STILL buy Sonic games. Unleashed sold over 2 million copies, Shadow the Hedgehog has sold at least a million copies, and it would be surprising if Sonic 06 sold even more than those two games.

So with that said, even though we complain about the "crappy" releases we still purchase these games. And if it's the fans buying them, then does SEGA have to listen to our complaints? Are we just willing to take anything? I'm starting to believe so.

But with that said, I don't think that this is necessarily a bad thing. I admit I give every Sonic game a chance. I loved Unleashed and I even bought Shadow just because I suddenly wanted it (however I spent a mere seven dollars on it). It's my, and all the fans', faith and interest that keep this and all other fanbases alive. But if SEGA know we'll buy these games they don't have to try so hard. At least I'm starting to think that.

So is this a good thing or not? Is our faith part of the reason for the quality decline?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fans don't know what they want. There’s so many different iterations of Sonic and sub communities within the fan base as a result of that that it’s probably in Sonic Team’s best interests to just make whatever they want and not try to appease everyone at the same time. 
 

I feel like this franchise never takes any significant steps forward in its efforts to appeal to certain sections of the fan base with each release. Take Mario Odyssey for example, the game presents itself as being in the style of Mario 64 but besides a few nods here and there it’s very much it’s own thing. This is what I think Sonic Team doesn’t understand. When making a classic style game we end up with the same locations regurgitated over and over again, I’m sure I’m not alone when I say I’m sick of the sight of Green Hill or some iteration of it every single game at this point. Even Mania for all the good it did is inhibited by its chains to reused locales. I fear that a new game made to appeal to Adventure fans with this mindset will just take a bunch of stuff from both Adventure games and call it day like ‘hey guys remember City Escape!? Here it is again!!’ rather than build upon the existing aesthetic.

  • Thumbs Up 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does SEGA Even HAVE to Listen to Us?

Not really. "We", that is the people who aren't really happy with the series, aren't as big a group as we think we are. I think the series would survive just fine if the games could keep to a solid quality, whether or not they satisfy the long-time fans.

That's not to say there's no reason to listen to us; if our requests are reasonable, and they carry them out, then they get our money too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fans want a good game that isn't ravished with gimmicks. Excuted correctly, gimmicks can be great, but they aren't the most important thing ever. And I'm talking gameplay altering gimmicks here (alternate gameplay styles), not individual level gimmicks (bouncy mushrooms, pinball etc). The series itself is in a bit of a Professor pickle because of the split fanbase, but while most of us have our ideals, we aren't going to say every game that doesn't meet them is shit. SEGA need to listen to the fans, so they know what is successful and what isn't, but their judgment has to cover a lot of things. Fan wishes make up only part of the decision process. They should listen to us, not come to our aid every time we break a nail. But without listening to us, Sonic 4 wouldn't exist and certainly wouldn't have been delayed. Good can come from it. Remember this- collectively, the fanbase does not know what it wants.

And just for the record, Colours is so far my ideal. =D

Edited by Blue Blood
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think SEGA should take on board criticisms of their previous games so as to perfect the gameplay experience, certainly, but I dunno about listening to the fans for ideas for future games. The fanbase is too varied in opinion, whatever SEGA do they will never please everyone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's hard to take criticism when the prepubescent fucktards of the SEGA forums worship any old shit Sonic Team comes up with, most of them probably adored STH06...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The sooner Sonic fans realise that they make up probably less than 10% of the sales of any Sonic game, the sooner they will realise why no game will ever be aimed at them again

Now if only we could silence that 10%.

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now if only we could silence that 10%.

No thanks. I like that the fanbase has input. Now if we could make that 10% whine less... that's a different story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No thanks. I like that the fanbase has input. Now if we could make that 10% whine less... that's a different story.

That's the problem, the vocal part of the fanbase, or the one that is heard, is the one that whines.

I honestly think the next best Sonic game will happen when SEGA through all previous ideals out the window and pay no attention at all to the fanbase.

Which might be Colours tbh consider the age group it is aimed at, but then again no game will ever appeal to everyone, no game in the world can do that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's the problem, the vocal part of the fanbase, or the one that is heard, is the one that whines.

I honestly think the next best Sonic game will happen when SEGA through all previous ideals out the window and pay no attention at all to the fanbase.

Which might be Colours tbh consider the age group it is aimed at, but then again no game will ever appeal to everyone, no game in the world can do that.

I think the genuine complaints and positive comments are the ones that are adhered to most often. The other thing is, SEGA has been trying to find their fanbase for a while. Unleashed, going for the more childish approach that hadn't really been seen since Heroes, hit right more people the right way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No they don't have to listen to the fans because it's obvious that none of them know what they want. It's also funny how the whiners continue to purchase games that they say/know are crap. It's like one of those tests where the rat has a choice between cheese and getting shocked, in the sonic fans case they continue to get zapped.

  • Thumbs Up 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No they don't have to listen to the fans because it's obvious that none of them know what they want.

There's very true because fans want different things, but I'm sure that there's SOMETHING, maybe just ONE thing that we can agree on. Every Sonic fan wants Sonic to be fast, however the game has to be more than speed there has to be platform elements, I think we can all agree on that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think they do.

I mean, we are the ones putting money in their pockets after all...

Edited by Edge
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have to be careful to define "the fans."

We feel big here on our interwebz with our forums and our thousands of posts of discussion/griping/pining/wanting/suggesting/etc., but remember that most of what you see here will probably be outnumbered a thousand times over by e-mails direct to Sega from 12 year old Timmies and Jimmies telling Sega that Shaddow is teh coolist and that the next game should be more like Naruto or something.

I mean, I'm pulling figures out of my ass here, but seriously, "the fanbase" as conventionally thought of is probably really small.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think they do.

I mean, we are the ones putting money in their pockets after all...

Well think of it like this.

SEGA can put Sonic in anything at all. Anything. They could make a game where Sonic runs forward of his won will and it's all a QTE and they will make money.

They do NOT need to listen to us. They DO however, try to at the very least, because it does get them more sales.

But no, they don't NEED to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I already made a fucking article on the subject, so I think I'll link that instead of repeating myself. In hindsight it's actually a bit embarrasing and incoherent to me these days, but the big points are there, especially the big four:

Here's four reasons why Sega/Sonic Team shouldn't listen to you:

1. Fanservice alone doesn't improve the quality of an already crap game.

2. Sonic Team has a habit of twisting fan demand into unusual and nonsensical directions - a trend which should've been obvious the moment Shadow was resurrected.

3. Nowadays there is a massive gap between nostalgia-themed games and entries designed with modern intentions, making it completely impossible to make a universally acceptable game based off your word alone.

4. Because you're most likely a complete moron with no game design experience of any kind and no understanding of the possible repercussions your actions would have on the franchise.

Get it? Good. If I seem overly blunt about it, you should realize there's good reason for it - this crap has gone on for TEN YEARS almost uncontested whilst fanboys prance under the hideously mistaken delusion that they somehow know better than Sega AND Sonic Team with absolutely nothing to show for it. To say I'm absolutely sick of it would be a fuckin' understatement.

Edited by Blacklightning
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sometimes I feel like Sega doesn't listen to us enough. But when they sort of give in it gets kind of bad.

The Adventures were for the most part good Sonic games and I believe Sega didn't listen to the fans much. But then Heroes came around and because of fan popularity Shadow came back. Then when Sega had a poll for choosing a Sonic character to have his own game Shadow won it and people said it was bad even though it was what they wanted.

That sort of deal. I guess Sega is better off without us. Just saying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know, I'm starting to think SEGA might be listening to it's fanbase more than we think, though not necessarily in a way that everyone will agree on (it's pretty much impossible to either add on or try something different in a popular series w/out getting hated for it. Hell, some people hate on Super Mario Galaxy for being linear (and I know someone who does)).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I already made a fucking article on the subject, so I think I'll link that instead of repeating myself. In hindsight it's actually a bit embarrasing and incoherent to me these days, but the big points are there, especially the big four:

I get where you're coming from, and I've felt the same way before, but that's before my... better rationale kicks in.

I mean, realistically, what would you have people do? Withhold having opinions and desires unless they work in the gaming industry or took some game design degree? I'm sure that's not what you mean (and to assume it is would be to strawman you to death which I won't do), but I'm just trying to make an illustration. Everyone has things that they like, dislike, want, and don't want, no matter how good or awful their opinions may be, and you can't reasonably expect people who are paying customers to withhold those thoughts because they aren't "qualified."

Like it or not, the way business works, the largest group of people with the same opinion will most likely get catered to, rather than the smaller group of people with the "best" opinions. Again, we come back to the Timmies and Jimmies I mentioned before.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean, realistically, what would you have people do? Withhold having opinions and desires unless they work in the gaming industry or took some game design degree?
Oh don't get me wrong, I didn't mean anything like that. That's not what my little article there was aiming at. That article was aimed at the mentality that fans knew better than the companies they supposedly worship and/or can do a better job outright, and around the time I first wrote that, said mentality was depressingly common.

I'm not specifically trying to claim that fans can't have an opinion or chip in an idea of their own, by all means let them. It's just that trying to claim you're better than Sega or ST with absolutely nothing to show for it, be it games of your own design, aformentioned degree in design or even basic knowledge of game design, is nothing short of absolute fucking foolhardiness. It's those kinds of people that don't deserve an audience of any kind, really. Hell, most people I know who DO have that kind of experience aren't nearly that arrogant about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's just that trying to claim you're better than Sega or ST with absolutely nothing to show for it, be it games of your own design, aformentioned degree in design or even basic knowledge of game design, is nothing short of absolute fucking foolhardiness. It's those kinds of people that don't deserve an audience of any kind, really. Hell, most people I know who DO have that kind of experience aren't nearly that arrogant about it.

Aaahh, okay. It's more about just being disgusted with the attitude, not so much the outcome of the opinions and junk. I get where you're comin' from, then, and agree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sega doesn't need to listen to us, but they do need to be aware of us - because we do make reliable buys on their games.

I also believe in some kind of Sonic fan manifesto. There are things we can all agree with. He's gotta be fast. He's gotta be cool. He's gotta be fun.

Sonic Team's demonstrated they've been out of touch with cool and fun during the development of some games. Fast is just a matter of how.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4. Because you're most likely a complete moron with no game design experience of any kind and no understanding of the possible repercussions your actions would have on the franchise.

What a coincidence. So is Sonic Team.

I don't try to pretend that I know better than Sonic Team, but I sure as hell can recognize that they set the bar pretty fucking low regardless of whether they are listening to anyone. Note the werehog, where they went out of their way to ignore pretty much everyone who was not part of Sonic Team in their quest to implement it.

Edited by Tornado
  • Thumbs Up 2
  • Bad Quality Post 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't try to pretend that I know better than Sonic Team, but I sure as hell can recognize that they set the bar pretty fucking low regardless of whether they are listening to anyone. Note the werehog, where they went out of their way to ignore pretty much everyone who was not part of Sonic Team in their quest to implement it.

I still maintain that it was the werehog sections that harboured in quite a few sales from those who like the bishy bashy style of gameplay or needed their God of War fix without being over 18. The thing when designing a game is you need to look at the target audience. Sadly I think that Sonci team try and make it far too broad, hence failing, mind Nintendo also seem to do this and do well so it's hard to maintain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.