Sonic 4 is Sonic's Last Chance says Wired

[Remy]

How so exactly? In a sense that this may actually be Sonic's last chance or in a sense that there's something else at play here?

It's called Sonic 4. Fucking up Sonic 4 is kind of a big deal

[DaBatGuy]

It's called Sonic 4. Fucking up Sonic 4 is kind of a big deal

Sonic 4? They already fucked up Sonic the Hedgehog, multiple times.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

It's called Sonic 4. Fucking up Sonic 4 is kind of a big deal

Just like how they already fucked up Sonic the Hedgehog given all the other names like those between Heroes and Unleashed? So those games weren't kind of a big deal?

Can I get an actual answer please, I don't give a damn about the name.

Edited June 7, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Remy]

And look where the franchise is now after they fucked up sonic the hedgehog 06 -> In the shit. Permanant whipping boy of the gaming media and the public. Sonic The Hedgehog 06 is an absolute disaster. It was in fact, kind of a big deal.

I'm not sure what planet you people are living on, but from where I'm sitting it seems like Sonic has already lost his last chance after the 06 debacle, and unleashed's werehog bullshit. I think that whole thing with 06 was pretty bad, and that this one will be more so if they fuck it up, as it's a retro throwback, not a lanky 3D abomination. SEGA are putting this game in the same category as their finest work, the 1-3k zone, games still regarded as awesome today. Fucking up a throwback on this level would be disastrous PR for the company and the franchise, which you can see by how people reacted to the Sonic 4 leaks and the massive damage control SEGA did around the time of those leaks.

Ultimately though- Sonic is SEGA's whore, and I suppose as long as they can crank out stuff like Colours to still make a profit, they will ultimately continue putting him in as many games as possible until they think up a better mascot, so really Sonic will probably never have a last chance.

Surely you can see where these people are coming from though, right?

Alternatively:

How so exactly? In a sense that this may actually be Sonic's last chance or in a sense that there's something else at play here?

Can I get an actual answer please, I don't give a damn about the name.

Officals at SEGA are threatening to commit mass suicide unless the next Sonic Game scores over 8.0 on metacritic. Rumor has it their demonic overloards at sammy demand a game of above 8.0 as a sacrifice to appease their demonic pachinko overlords, who in turn will aim them in the battle against Cthuhlu's second rising. If the score is not provided, they will sacrifice sonic himself else all of mankind is doomed.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'm not sure what planet you people are living on,

Obviously Earth, since there's no other planet to live on yet.

but from where I'm sitting it seems like Sonic has already lost his last chance after the 06 debacle, and unleashed's werehog bullshit.

Sonic has had more than several "last chances" since Sonic 06 or even ShTH. Sonic 06 was left with fixing the mess ShTH left behind only for it to leave an even bigger mess that makes Shadow seem decent, Secret Rings was considered his last chance soon after Sonic 06, then Unleashed, then Black Knight. It's silly how many times must we hear "This is his last chance or else" be parroted around the net like an echo when this is actually his umpteenth "last chance" in a row.

I think that whole thing with 06 was pretty bad, and that this one will be more so if they fuck it up, as it's a retro throwback, not a lanky 3D abomination. SEGA are putting this game in the same category as their finest work, the 1-3k zone, games still regarded as awesome today. Fucking up a throwback on this level would be disastrous PR for the company and the franchise, which you can see by how people reacted to the Sonic 4 leaks and the massive damage control SEGA did around the time of those leaks.

It's ironic how those fuck ups still end up doing successful. Nowadays, people who expect and seek nothing but failure keep spouting out the same thing since 2006.

Given how this is a throwback, I would expect this to be remotely better than the other games before it, although even though I'm not expecting too much after seeing much of the game in action and the fact that this isn't the same team working on the original classic titles, if this game fails it's really just deja vu all over again as far as I can see it. Almost all Sonic games since Sonic 06 have been blown way out of proportion in regards to their flaws, to the extent that some would foolishly regard S3&K as a start of the series failings, and honestly nothing would surprise me too much in regards to the game getting bad reception.

Surely you can see where these people are coming from though, right?

It's hard to see where they're coming from when they've been saying the same thing since the last failure Sonic has actually had in 2006 and stretching the point of failure to the edge of the Classic games. No one will doubt that there isn't reason to worry (well, I certainly won't), but the whole "last chance" phrase has really been done to death so much it's laughable.

[Scar]

The thing is. This game won't be bad.

The critical reception has already been exceptional. They liked Sonic Rush; the poster-boy of how 2D Sonic can be bad.

The critics wil love this game, because its 2D.

It won't be a bad game.

The question is, will it be AMAZING.?

The question is, will it give the fans the nostalgia and glory they felt back in the days of the Mega Drive?

To many, no. Some are looking through not rose-coloured glasses, but shit coloured glasses. They've seen so much of it [in their opinion] that every time they see a Sonic game, beit good or bad, they instantly say "CRAP"

It seems that those few are so blinded by love/hatred for Sonic the Hedgehog that they WANT the new games to be bad so that they can hold thier dear Mega Drive games up high on their pedestal.

I for one, want Sonic 4 to be better than S3K. Whether or not this will be true, is yet to be seen. But I hope, mainly because Sonic deserves it, but partially because I want those ludicrously hateful fans be proven wrong.

MY irrlevant rant.

[Cortez]

To many, no. Some are looking through not rose-coloured glasses, but shit coloured glasses. They've seen so much of it [in their opinion] that every time they see a Sonic game, beit good or bad, they instantly say "CRAP"

It seems that those few are so blinded by love/hatred for Sonic the Hedgehog that they WANT the new games to be bad so that they can hold thier dear Mega Drive games up high on their pedestal.

Are you honestly suggesting that we WANT Sonic games to be bad in order to make the classics look better? Really?

I don't think anybody wants that.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

The thing is. This game won't be bad.

The critical reception has already been exceptional. They liked Sonic Rush; the poster-boy of how 2D Sonic can be bad.

The critics wil love this game, because its 2D.

It won't be a bad game.

Chickens? Counting? Hatched? Much?

I certainly don't agree that S4 is guaranteed not bad. Physics, re-hash-ness, art style, the fact that they won't change a thing during the delay because it's purely an anti-piracy stnt; there are many, many ways it could still fuck up, and lets face it - Sonic Team are masters of fucking up. I do, however, think it's absurd to say "This is Sonic's last chance". As many others have pointed out, people have been sating that for the last 5 years. And it's never true.

[Remy]

tbh, sonic is practically immortal. any other character would've been axed by now

[Phos]

I think that whole "Sonic Team was bullshitting about roots" sentiment cropped up when Hashimoto mentioned the 2D perspective and how it would be a bone thrown to the 2D fans, (along with the hype he personally generated about this being the best Sonic game ever); It kinda was since those sections had the most platforming, but nevertheless I think the fandom just took it and ran with it, setting themselves up for disappointment over a feature that even Sonic Team admitted was relatively minimal.

I get this same feeling from all of the Sonic '06 hype too. Aside from the official website, and said statement on there is dubious, I literally can't find any source where Sonic Team themselves were imposing a back-to-roots theme. =/

Sonic Team themself doesn't speak very good English. Do people react this way to other video game companies, rejecting info stated about a game because it came from the marketing department instead of from the developers? I heard from an editor on Deatructoid on a podcast that while he was at an early private showing of Secret Rings that they described it to him as "back to roots". The "back to roots" thing didn't spring up on its own.

...On the other hand, I sometimes get the idea that when the current Sega says "back to roots", they mean Sonic Adventure 2 or something like that. Bleh.

[ArtFenix]

The thing is. This game won't be bad.

The critical reception has already been exceptional. They liked Sonic Rush; the poster-boy of how 2D Sonic can be bad.

The critics wil love this game

Love of critics doesn't automatically make Sonic 4 a good game. The game may play like shit, but IT"S A FREAKING 2D, so it's AWESOME. That's soooooo stupid, really.

I think the game won't be near as great as S3&K and i don't give a shit what the critics say. I just want to have some fun and nostalgia. Oh, yeah, i also want episode 2 not to be a "copy/paste" like the first episode.

Edited June 10, 2010 by ArtFenix

[JamieDawg]

The thing is. This game won't be bad.

The critical reception has already been exceptional. They liked Sonic Rush; the poster-boy of how 2D Sonic can be bad.

The critics wil love this game, because its 2D.

It won't be a bad game.

I'm sorry but that's bull, Sonic Rivals 1&2 were 2D and both of them got pretty low review scores. The fact of the game being 2D doesn't automatically ensure that this game will not suck.

Also, like Frozen Nitrogen said, don't count your chickens before they hatch, anything can happen that will eather make this game fail or succeed.

But back to the main topic,

I seem to have that deja vu feeling again, why is that?

Edited June 10, 2010 by Tizo Teh Hedgie

[Unionhack]

What if Colours is sheer perfection and then 4 is abysmal. Or vice versa?

Then we'll have a good Sonic Game, yes sir.

Wish I wouldn't be reluctant to pick up copies of games from my favorite franchise, but ever since Secret Rings came out, I've hesitated to buy anything Sonic. I still agree that the 'last chance' line has been thrown around a bit too much, but I sure hope that Sonic Team works on this game like it is their last. If it's great, we'll all be happy.

[Nepenthe]

Sonic Team themself doesn't speak very good English. Do people react this way to other video game companies, rejecting info stated about a game because it came from the marketing department instead of from the developers? I heard from an editor on Deatructoid on a podcast that while he was at an early private showing of Secret Rings that they described it to him as "back to roots". The "back to roots" thing didn't spring up on its own.

...On the other hand, I sometimes get the idea that when the current Sega says "back to roots", they mean Sonic Adventure 2 or something like that. Bleh.

Um, yes? Most gamers I see reject obvious marketing and PR that's only there to make the game look good, especially when they have access to direct developer insight.

Now, you've given me one account of this statement being made by Sega. My problems with that is that it's not made in reference to either of the two major offenders, it directly contradicts all of the information that undoubtedly came during this same exact revealing, you just admitted that Sonic Team's English isn't even good, and finally there's gaming journalism's various biases regarding the series which can potentially lead to several different, conflicting, and completely wrong interpretations of the information being given; After all, this report is apparently only coming from one gaming outlet. Do you not see any room for error here?

I agree with you that the statement came from somewhere, obviously, but I don't think the majority if any of the sentiment came from Sega because there aren't any major statements or PR to be found for the two aforementioned games: 06 and Unleashed. The most I can find for the former is a tenuous "speed" statement on the official website that sprung up months after this overwhelming sentiment from the fanbase came about, (coupled with all the theoretical fanwaking we cooked up over the initial trailer and demo too), and for the latter it's Hashimoto stating "The camera for the daytime stages will swivel sometimes to create a 2D perspective for a few seconds at a time," along with the own hype he generated, and that's it.

All in all, after witnessing the utterly embarrassing responses this fanbase has made to Sega, I wouldn't put it past us to be so revisionist and desperate as to exaggerate statements or even fan-theories and effectively make up promises that Sonic Team never actually made.

[Phos]

I found this one on Gamespot:

For the little guy's 15th anniversary, developer Sonic Team is aiming to have Sonic's next-gen debut revisit his roots for this new era in gaming, marrying the classic Sonic elements of graphics and speed with the power of the new boxes.

The demo of the game began with an overview of the project by the team. With Sonic's 15th anniversary taking place this year, the team opted to revisit the hedgehog's roots for his next-gen incarnation.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/sonicthehedgehog/news.html?sid=6149215&mode=previews

Found this on IGN:

The key to re-introducing Sonic on the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, a crowd of journalists was told at SEGA's San Francisco, Ca. headquarters, is focusing on the impact of his speed and sense of control from Sonic's early Genesis days, and the wild aerial jumps introduced in Sonic Adventures.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/704/704896p1.html

And again from IGN:

To start, we'll just say that Sonic on PS3 shoots for the same kind of experience as previous titles in the series. Specifically, it aims to deliver the speed and frenetic action of the 16-bit originals. Of course, developers want to refine and enhance that formula, so there's a whole lot of technical prowess in the system.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/711/711418p1.html

And this little bit about Sonic Heroes on Gamespot:

Sonic Heroes is the upcoming multiplatform action game from Sonic Team that aims to mix the fast pace of Sonic the Hedgehog's classic 2D adventures with 3D graphics.

http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/adventure/sonicheroes/news.html?sid=6085314&mode=previews

Finding this stuff proved to be significantly easier than information that debunked colonic irrigation, that's for sure.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Phos

[Nepenthe]

I was never gonna dispute Heroes.

Regardless, I concede the notion that specifically Sega hasn't made such statements, but I still take issue with the ambiguity of this marketing endeavor. All that IGN and Gamespot report are that "roots = speed and action" which, if taken at face value, essentially means nothing more than Sonic Team ironically did deliver on the promise and thus the complaints about such are still unfounded anyways. This is nothing like Sonic 4 where Sega are obviously attempting to make a direct return to more specific classic principles of gameplay; This is obligatory vagueness, a tenuous relation to mere atmosphere.

[Ebby]

Last chance?! Pssssssh! Whatever! Don't they still make Crash Banditcoot games? Those started sucking ages ago!! Sonic's fiiiiiiiiiine!

[Sean]

And lots of people think that Sonic's gone down the same route.

[RainbowLizard]

Maybe Sonic ISN'T as bad as critics say he is. It's just that gaming opinion has changed over time? I mean, yeah, Sonic 06 may have been glitchy and buggy and stuff but when you take all the polished 'semi decent' as we call them games, you just notice one thing:

Nobody can really identify one CORE reason why it sucks (*cough*Werehog aside*cough*). I mean, people will debate to the end of time now why unleashed sucks. On paper it shouldn't have: Fun, fast action with amazing graphics and a level of polish never really seen before in Sonic games.

Maybe Sonic's never really been BAD as such (other than really bad games that we can all identify), but just...different to what the critics want. Does a 6/10 score mean a bad game? ...Not really, it just means the critics didn't enjoy it as Generic FPS number 58 that came out this year. Maybe its just that opinions have moved away from platforming and into first person shooters and shit these days.

In my opinion, reviews are not really that valid. It's just some guy saying 'I didn't enjoy this game' tbh. I think that with the sales that Sonic Unleashed got maybe things aren't that bad. If you enjoy a Sonic game then enjoy it. Regardless of '6/10' reviews and stuff.

Edited June 15, 2010 by RainbowLizard

[Skyward Sword]

Maybe Sonic ISN'T as bad as critics say he is. It's just that gaming opinion has changed over time? I mean, yeah, Sonic 06 may have been glitchy and buggy and stuff but when you take all the polished 'semi decent' as we call them games, you just notice one thing:

Nobody can really identify one CORE reason why it sucks (*cough*Werehog aside*cough*). I mean, people will debate to the end of time now why unleashed sucks. On paper it shouldn't have: Fun, fast action with amazing graphics and a level of polish never really seen before in Sonic games.

Maybe Sonic's never really been BAD as such (other than really bad games that we can all identify), but just...different to what the critics want. Does a 6/10 score mean a bad game? ...Not really, it just means the critics didn't enjoy it as Generic FPS number 58 that came out this year. Maybe its just that opinions have moved away from platforming and into first person shooters and shit these days.

In my opinion, reviews are not really that valid. It's just some guy saying 'I didn't enjoy this game' tbh. I think that with the sales that Sonic Unleashed got maybe things aren't that bad. If you enjoy a Sonic game then enjoy it. Regardless of '6/10' reviews and stuff.

Sonic games are getting ignored and being dealt unfairly by 'pro' reviewers. We should actually think about the GOOD points in a video game, not the bad poins.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Bowserizer

[Phos]

I am amazed that reviewers even still bother to review Sonic games. You all say there's some kind of massive anti Sonic bias, I don't see anything but evidence to the contrary.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Sonic games are getting ignored and being dealt unfairly by 'pro' reviewers. We should actually think about the GOOD points in a video game, not the bad poins.

Actually for the most part, the reviewers are dead on with some of the issues in terms of gameplay. The only issue that stems up is that they tend to exaggerate the bad parts of the game more than they should at times, which I find laughable when they do.

However, when they go outside of gameplay and start talking about the characters they don't like simply being around as a fault in the game or when they start marking it for being a 3D game as a fault is when I see them being unfair. Of course, that really depends on how they go about it.

Edited June 16, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic