E3 Interview + Footage

[Indigo Rush]

Did you really have to bring up the green eyes? I thought we were beyond that by now.

Not Frozen.

Not ever.

[Sean]

Chill out, guys.

It's kinda funny how SSMB bitches about people who complain about insignificant matters such as "green eyes". When in fact you guys are doing the exact same thing over one or two people's views. I am strongly recommending that you guys just drop it when you see posts that rub you the wrong way. Don't reply with snarky comments. Don't spam neg-reps. Just ignore.

Don't believe me? Whoever continues this shit gets a warning, no questions asked. Don't test me.

[The-Master-Board]

That would probably be so if the boss was actually difficult to some extent, which would really change up the arguement. But that still doesn't do anything to the difficulty to the extent where it is cheap considering the fact that the skill was lacking to begin with on the first boss.

Homing Attack or no, there is practically zero skill in defeating that boss.

Ok then, but can we both agree on lets say, if they added the homing attack to a harder boss...lets say...Marble Garden's boss; where you have to watch to judge where Eggman is coming from and to avoid his drill and definitely have to get your aim pretty precise (even controlling the rebound to be caught by Tails again) ~ Now lets say we add the homing attack to that, it would make the boss exceptionaly cheap no?

My reasoning is just that in a 2D environment the homing attack seems like a game breaker and is evident so in how easily bosses will be beat by it.

I can agree with what Frozen Nitrogen said: That this delay is nothing but PR damage control, and sure the game may be slightly tweaked here and there, but in the end that video still shows me bad physics, abundant dash panels, and the unoriginality of ripping levels and bosses straight from the old games are all still present.....doesn't look like much of a change to me.

Off topic: MvC3 should have assist characters, Deadpool's should be Weasel who he calls in, then shoots in the leg!

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Ok then, but can we both agree on lets say, if they added the homing attack to a harder boss...lets say...Marble Garden's boss; where you have to watch to judge where Eggman is coming from and to avoid his drill and definitely have to get your aim pretty precise (even controlling the rebound to be caught by Tails again) ~ Now lets say we add the homing attack to that, it would make the boss exceptionaly cheap no?

Actually, in that case I'd say there's a strong chance that it wouldn't be any different, and this is where the argument changes.

Sonic 3 had something similar to the Homing Attack in the form of the Flame Shield, which does everything except actually home in on the target. The fact that you had to watch out for where that boss was coming from would probably make the Homing Attack something you would have to be more careful in using. If you had the Flame Shield on and tried to use it, there's still a chance you would get hurt in the process.

If the HA was used in the Flame Shield's place, it wouldn't be too different as there's still the danger of touching the drill which would cause damage if you weren't careful. You might get a hit off the boss, but after that hit you'll have to make sure you avoid touching the drill afterwards.

And the danger of accidently running Sonic into the drill with Tails would still exist.

It's kinda funny how SSMB bitches about people who complain about insignificant matters such as "green eyes". When in fact you guys are doing the exact same thing over one or two people's views.

I wasn't bitching. I was just wondering why it was brought up again after all these months.

Edited June 14, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Phos]

Pit the homing attack versus the Spring Yard Zone boss and it becomes a joke.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Phos

[Frozen Nitrogen]

@Frozen Nitrogen: You're going to buy the game anyway, so why do you keep complaining about it? If if you aren't going to buy it, why are you wasting your time complaining about it on a forum?

Yes, because we can't complain about the negative features of things we (will) own. That would be absurd.

Much better to ceaselessly proselytise the positives.

That's how intelligent discourse works, you know.

I see no difference in the "new" footage, and hence my assertion that no substantive tweaks will be made is bolstered. That's wouldn't be changed simply by force of blinkered optimism, from either myself or anyone (or everyone!) else.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Frozen Nitrogen

[speedfreak]

I'm pissed that Sonic STILL doesn't get wheel feet unless he just hit a spring or is running down a hill. His jogging animation in STH4 is lame and classic Sonic would get into wheel feet in a few seconds even on flat ground anyway.

Even if they can't get the physics perfect it should be easy enough to make the wheel feet come sooner.......and get rid of that stupid animation when he flies off of a ramp.

[SykoTech]

I wasn't bitching. I was just wondering why it was brought up again after all these months.

To stir up unnecessary controversy/arguments of course. Best to just ignore it.

Jumping looks less floaty, which is nice.

Agreed. The jumping mechanics were my biggest concern with this game (well...Minecart aside, but Sonic Team corrected that too). It looked pretty floaty and tough to pinpoint in the leaked footage. Bad jumping alone pretty much killed Advance 3 for me. Nice to see that it's looking a lot more stable here.

Still not very pleased with how Sonic's wheel-o-feet turns to a jog so quickly. Fix that, and I'm good to go.

EDIT: Oh, and keep Sonic in a ball after a ramp launch.

Edited June 14, 2010 by SykoTech

[Scar]

I see no difference in the "new" footage, and hence my assertion that no substantive tweaks will be made is bolstered. That's wouldn't be changed simply by force of blinkered optimism, from either myself or anyone (or everyone!) else.

Maybe thats because that isn't "New" footage. it looks practically the same from the Splash Hill video given during the "HUGE" delay announcement.

Therefore you can't make preconceived judgements.

I don't think thats footage from the "new" build and it looks different to the leaks because the player isn't spamming the homing attack.

Also, I think that the removal and recontruction of 2 entire acts, is a pretty big change.

No business could EVER get away with saying they're changing something, and then end up changing that thing. No, the media won't be blissfully ignorant, they probably have seen the leaks (but chose to not mention it for legal reasons) and if there isn't a change, they would NEVER let it go. Especially people like GameSpot and IGN.

There will be changes....there HAS to be changes. We just have to wait and see what those changes are.

[Tornado]

Sonic 3 had something similar to the Homing Attack in the form of the Flame Shield, which does everything except actually home in on the target.

So it is in fact barely similar at all for the purposes of this discussion. The flame shield attack gave you instant horizontal momentum. That's it. You could try and "aim" it to give a a quick attack against a boss when there is an opening, but that's is the extent of its use unless you were against a boss that used flames. Most times, it wasn't even that much more useful than simply jumping. You're also missing the elephant in the room in that if you screw up while attempting to use the flame shield, you can't use it anymore. It also couldn't be used against several bosses against which it would be more useful than simply jumping. Those two things alone makes it pretty different from the homing attack, even ignoring that you have to aim the thing to even attack with it.

No business could EVER get away with saying they're changing something, and then end up changing that thing. No, the media won't be blissfully ignorant, they probably have seen the leaks (but chose to not mention it for legal reasons) and if there isn't a change, they would NEVER let it go. Especially people like GameSpot and IGN.

That actually happens all the time, so that is an incorrect assumption.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Tornado

[Badnik Zero]

I think the advantages of the homing over the flame shield show themselves in the first boss of Sonic 3. If I spam my shield there, there's a good chance I'll fall into the pit and die because it doesn't home. An air boost is not a bad move for Sonic. And like Tornado says, the shield is a shield. You lose it with one hit.

And someone on the other page mentioned the wheel of feet. Sonic does the wheel going up a wall in this preview. But remember it doesn't mean that's his top speed just because his running animation changes. He runs like that off springs in the classics, but hills and loops will still add to that, like Chemical Plant.

[Rusty Spy]

Pit the homing attack versus the Spring Yard Zone boss and it becomes a joke.

Not really. Unless the HA has ridiculous range, i.e being able to hit enemies far above him, it'd just be the same as normal, just being only slightly easier to hit.

And before we start throwing the HA in different boss scenarios from the Genesis games and claiming how easy it'd be with it, the HA obviously gives Sonic a combat and movement advantage in 2D, therefore it'd clearly make some, if not most of the old bosses a lot easier.

[Tornado]

Not really. Unless the HA has ridiculous range, i.e being able to hit enemies far above him, it'd just be the same as normal, just being only slightly easier to hit.

You don't trigger the homing attack while standing on the ground, you trigger it during a jump. And a lot of classic Sonic bosses were just a few pixels out of jumping range when they weren't attacking. The homing attack would have to have range bad enough to the extent of complete pointlessness of the move itself for it to not target properly in the case of bosses like Spring Yard or Star Light.

Your second point has weight, but I don't see why they wouldn't just disable the damn thing during boss battles in the first place.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Tornado

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

So it is in fact barely similar at all for the purposes of this discussion. The flame shield attack gave you instant horizontal momentum. That's it.

And doesn't the homing attack do that along with homing in on a nearby target? Because I'm not seeing anything else it can do but those two things.

You're also missing the elephant in the room in that if you screw up while attempting to use the flame shield, you can't use it anymore.

Okay, that's three things...dammit

To be honest tho, I wasn't really concerned with it not being used after you get hit. I know I completely left out this detail, but I said that in the sense that if the flame shield was a permanent feature than a shield...of course that would seem more like I'm making excuses mentioning that at this point.

Oh well, I guess there was no point in mentioning it now.

It also couldn't be used against several bosses against which it would be more useful than simply jumping. Those two things alone makes it pretty different from the homing attack, even ignoring that you have to aim the thing to even attack with it.

I'm guessing that ties along with it not being used if you screw up with it, wouldn't it?

In any case, the way I see it in this argument is that if the homing attack was used in Sonic 3 & Knuckles for example, there wouldn't be much where it would be cheap. Some of the bosses would likely still vary in terms of whether it would be difficult with the move being around, even those that you wouldn't have been able to use the flame shield on.

From what it looks in the footage, the HA isn't something that can be spammed (or the player isn't spamming it at the very least) and bounces the player backwards after each hit similar to the flame shield after you get a hit, which is unlike how it performs in the 3D games where you can spam it. So if that were placed in the previous game before it, this is how I would see it's advantages and risks against the bosses.

The first boss in Sonic 3 would still have the danger of getting hurt by the flames if the HA was used instead of the flame shield. Then there's still the danger if falling into the pit if the player ends up mistiming the attack before the boss disappears into the waterfall. I have no doubt that the battle wouldn't have been hard, but I doubt it would've been cheap with the homing attack.

The second boss would more than likely be a cakewalk since the homing attack can still let him hit objects above him. The third boss, however, wouldn't be cheap at all, as I mentioned in that post. Fourth boss...not too sure. I doubt it would be cheap since you have to attack him directly from above if I remember correctly, and it may or may not be too high for the homing attack to get a good shot off of it.

The Ice cap boss wouldn't be too hard, but you would still have to look out for the frost clouds that would freeze and damage you if you touch them. The last boss of the Sonic 3 definitely wouldn't be cheap since you still have to watch out for the hands and the spikes on the to; a mistimed attack could send you directly into one of those hazards, and the HA doesn't dodge over any enemy defenses like that.

I could go on. But whatever the differences, I still challenge the notion that the homing attack would be a game-breaking move until I play for myself.

And before we start throwing the HA in different boss scenarios from the Genesis games and claiming how easy it'd be with it, the HA obviously gives Sonic a combat and movement advantage in 2D, therefore it'd clearly make some, if not most of the old bosses a lot easier.

Based on the scenarios I just gave out above, I think the HA would come with its own risks along with its benefits.

Edited June 14, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[JaidynReiman]

^ Except that with the Flame Shield, if you get hit you get to keep your rings. If you make a mistake with a Homing Attack, say bye-bye to all your rings. If you HAVE no rings... you're screwed.

So yeah, Homing Attack spamming is just like Boost Spamming. Using it may help you, but at the same time, it can also kill you. The fact that you can do something (such as spam homing attack) doesn't mean you should because you can receive damage or die in the process.

[Adamis]

Four new pieces of artwork there.

[Saint Nathan]

Yay, fixed jump and some slower acceleration. That's all I need, the levels looked great from the leaks.

The only weird thing I noticed was that Sonic went up a hill, but like, seemed to speed up once he went into his falling animation, and he got sent up faster than it looked like he was going.

He also seems to fall off hill he can't get up. Not sure, looked like it.

Why do I always miss E3 aaaaaa

[Solid SOAP]

Yes, because we can't complain about the negative features of things we (will) own. That would be absurd.

Much better to ceaselessly proselytise the positives.

That's how intelligent discourse works, you know.

I see no difference in the "new" footage, and hence my assertion that no substantive tweaks will be made is bolstered. That's wouldn't be changed simply by force of blinkered optimism, from either myself or anyone (or everyone!) else.

Buying something and being disappointed by it, thus complaining about it's lack of quality, makes perfect sense, yes? You purchase a game or anything because it looks satisfactory to you and you believe it's worth your money. However, by purchasing a game you KNOW will suck, you are supporting the company to make more shitty games. If you think the game looks so bad, why are you wasting your hard-earned money on it when you could be buying something that you would actually enjoy? That doesn't make sense to me at all.

[Saint Nathan]

Your second point has weight, but I don't see why they wouldn't just disable the damn thing during boss battles in the first place.

It seems they... kind of do? I'm not seeing any targets on the bosses, i'm not sure. It does seem like Sonic only jump dashes though. I really don't know, never noticed.

[Rusty Spy]

It seems they... kind of do? I'm not seeing any targets on the bosses, i'm not sure. It does seem like Sonic only jump dashes though. I really don't know, never noticed.

It's definitely homing onto them. Otherwise he does a short dash forward without going into a ball.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

If you think the game looks so bad, why are you wasting your hard-earned money on it when you could be buying something that you would actually enjoy? That doesn't make sense to me at all.

1) Because I have more money than sense, and

2) Because even floaty physics, faux-retro-ality, and broken promises of change are insufficient to make me pass up a new Sonic game. My bilious invective should not obscure the fact that I do love the spiny blue guy.

[Solid SOAP]

So I watched the gameplay video on the front page of Sonic Stadium, and it looked really fun to me, but there was one problem I had that I fear will not be remedied; Sonic uncurling out his ball form after getting flown from a slope. The player spin-dashed and attempted to bop some enemies, but to no avail because for some reason they didn't program that in or whatever. Why? That's not a HUGE problem but it may cause some minor complications.

[Saint Nathan]

It's definitely homing onto them. Otherwise he does a short dash forward without going into a ball.

Ah, yeah, never mind.

Though, it doesn't seem you can spam it much. They have to have some sort of invincibility inbetween hits so you can't HA spamspamspam

[Chaosmaster8753]

1) Because I have more money than sense

That's all I need to know.

[Badnik Zero]

How about these physics! And wow, check out the Riders demo guy on the left.

Actually that video is up on TSS already, so I'll just hide it in spoilers. I don't think we've seen this one though.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Dabnikz