Paper Mario: Sticker Star (3DS)

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

SPM gave us Dimentio. That smiling bastard was among the best Mario villains we've ever had if you ask me.

I've always looked at the Paper Mario series to be a stellar example of what would happen if Mario were to have more story than his more major titles would give him, and hearing how this one shorted it doesn't exactly seem like a good thing in my eyes. RPGs generally draw you into them with their stories moreso than the gameplay, but the disappointment I'm hearing here isn't putting things it a good light for me with this game.

[Your Vest Friend]

Ha, it's funny contrasting the opinions on here with those of NeoGAF. A lot of people praising the writing and tight level design over there. Not so much here.

Can't believe y'all hatin' on Miyamoto though.

I can agree with them to some extent on the writing. They did well...with the limited amount of story they were allowed to use. I mean, a lot of the humour was still there, and

there was even some trademark sadness with Mizzter Blizzard. And Kersti. Maybe. I found her death more phoned in than anything.

But even with the limited cast allowed, getting rid of Bowser's banter is a shame.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

So yeah, the moment I heard Carbo mention Koizumi, I immediately had to look this guy up.

And this guy is the one who made Rosalina's Storybook in Galaxy? And that he's one heck of a storyteller that is being held back by the higher ups (for lack of a better term)? He made LoZ: MM's story?! And he wants more story in the Mario games?!

I'm sorry to say this, but Miyamoto needs to retire ASAP and let this guy take the mantle. I'm really looking forward to seeing what changes Koizumi is going to make if he were to take the lead here.

Edited November 15, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Salamander]

If it really is Miyamoto who screwed this one up, then the reviews had better make sure to harp on about the lack of story depth in this game and give it bland scores as a result. Developers do typically mine reviews and forums for opinions beyond the score and if the lack of story becomes a consistent complaint then that should filter through and weigh against even Miyamoto's opinion. Might well take another couple of games for this to have an impact, though, considering that they'll already have the next couple of Mario games in development.

Personally, I can accept one game doing something different, just as an alternative, a bit of a refresher. But you can't lose everything people liked about a series, forever, just to be different or just because one important man has gotten the wrong ideas in his head.

...I wonder if Miyamoto's new anti-story approach will extend to Zelda. Because there it might lead to a more flexible, open-world approach, like the early games, and a fair few people have been clamouring for that for a while. Whereas I don't think anyone was ever asking for the Mario series to have less plot.

[Carbo]

So yeah, the moment I heard Carbo mention Koizumi, I immediately had to look this guy up.

And this guy is the one who made Rosalina's Storybook in Galaxy? And that he's one heck of a storyteller that is being held back by the higher ups (for lack of a better term)? He made LoZ: MM's story?! And he wants more story in the Mario games?!

I'm sorry to say this, but Miyamoto needs to retire ASAP and let this guy take the mantle. I'm really looking forward to seeing what changes Koizumi is going to make if he were to take the lead here.

Koizumi's biggest innovation he ever brought to the table was undoubtedly the 3-day mechanic for Majora's Mask. That was a gold star in and of it's own, and he's easily responsible for a lot of beloved big entries of Nintendo IPs.

Fun fact: the storybook aspect was something he literally had to sneak into Super Mario Galaxy. Miyamoto didn't actually get to know about the plot-heavy elements of Galaxy until after development.

[VO.SUPER]

So yeah, the moment I heard Carbo mention Koizumi, I immediately had to look this guy up.

And this guy is the one who made Rosalina's Storybook in Galaxy? And that he's one heck of a storyteller that is being held back by the higher ups (for lack of a better term)? He made LoZ: MM's story?! And he wants more story in the Mario games?!

I'm sorry to say this, but Miyamoto needs to retire ASAP and let this guy take the mantle. I'm really looking forward to seeing what changes Koizumi is going to make if he were to take the lead here.

He made WHATS story now?

*Blur uses Future Embrace*

[Conando]

Well, with Koizumi doing the things like the storybook, I don't see the series becoming Sonic the Hedgehog levels of stupid so...go for it!

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Fun fact: the storybook aspect was something he literally had to sneak into Super Mario Galaxy. Miyamoto didn't actually get to know about the plot-heavy elements of Galaxy until after development.

Yeah, I just read that 2 minutes ago right here and was surprised at how something like that had to be snuck into the game without Miyamoto knowing. A shame that most folks at Nintendo are against his ideas regarding more in-depth narrative, believing that something is wrong if the narrative is getting attention.

[Nintendoga]

I don't think many people who've actually played the game have faults to find within it as a package. In fact, most people are saying this is one of the best 3DS titles available.

Without comparing it to the other titles in the series, there's still alot of flak to be found in this game.

Not going to deep into it, but the puzzles are usually infuriating and difficult for all the wrong reasons. For instance, in World 2 once you reach the final, you come across a space that needs paperization. The only problem is the items needed for that space are hidden in each of the previous levels of World 2. To be forced to search almost every nook and cranny for the scrap pieces is annoying, especially since the levels aren't particularly short.

There's also some serious issues with the hint system, which just might be one of the absolute worst hint systems I've ever played. You thought Fi was bad, well let me put out some examples on what Kersti did.

I'm stuck in a maze, and having constantly been looking for an exit for almost half an hour, I keep pressing the hint button, and all she says is "This is a giant maze huh? Well be sure to remember where you go in and go out or else you'll get lost."

She is of no help to me at all. She provides no hints when I'm doing a puzzle, nor does she tell me at times when I must go to look for an item or thing I'm searching for that's in a completely different level. She was clearly either one of the last things added into the game, or not given much of a thought, because she will most of the time, rather comment on the environment and how "pretty" or "ugly" it looks besides helping you solve a puzzle or guide you to the next general location of where you need to go in the game.

She's also just an unlikeable character in general. She comes off as incredibly rude in the opening, and doesn't change your impression of her throughout the game. Goombella, Midna, Tippi, Tatl, these are all hint systems/partners that were actually written well and defined enough to become likeable. Kersti's dialogue consists of being angry all the time, only to switch around and act nonchalant towards Mario. She's the very definition of the word Tsundere.

The Sticker System, my god is is so poor. There's so much unused potential here that it's not even funny. Watching videos, the System seems nice, and a fresh new take on the series, where as playing it do you only see how bad it really is. Why is it that we are forced to use a sticker no matter what each turn, even if we know we cannot hurt the enemy, or want to defend. Oh wait I forgot, you cannot defend in this game. Besides the block action command, you'll have to take each hit whether you like it or not (well two stickers help you defend, but they're somewhat rare).

Do you know how aggravating it is, to entirely abandon a level halfway through multiple times, because of the lack of stickers? There may seem like alot of stickers around the environment, but they're not enough. For most battles, you'll probably use 3-5 stickers for common battles, around 7-8 for battles with hard enemies, and how much you use on a boss is up to you. You can either fight it the old fashioned way, which make result in you losing all your stickers and being kicked from battle, or use a special thing to take out a hundred or so of the Boss's HP.

There's almost no strategy in the battles either. Since you cannot choose which enemy to attack, you'll always have to do everything based off the first enemy. But don't worry, because battling is completely, utterly, useless. There is no reason to battle. All you gain from battles are coins, which you already gain a crap-load of at the end of each level, or by selling off useless stickers.

I said I wouldn't go too deep into it yet, but these are some of the grips I just automatically thought. For some people to call it the best 3DS title available, is really stretching it. Unless they mean the best one coming out this holiday, which isn't far from the truth since it's really the only things coming out this holiday for the 3DS.

He made WHATS story now?

*Blur uses Future Embrace*

He's pretty much the next big thing that Nintendo will have once Miyamoto retires. Look at the workhe's done in the past with Nintendo. He's had a major influence in almost all of my favorite Nintendo games, and I can't wait for the day when he's "in-charge" per say.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Mike Dawson

[Conando]

Well, the narrative should not be the main point of the Mario series but, I see no point in going for a lack of one due to that. You can have something competent without being overbearing, leaving the gameplay still as the star.

[VO.SUPER]

You know, looking at his involvement in Mario games now, I think that story stint in Galaxy may have cost him, since he's been shelved as a producer of most modern Mario games he's involved him. I'd like to see this change when he's in charge.

[SchemingMinor]

I think this might be the reason why we haven't seen the likes of Wario, Waluigi, Princess Daisy, or any of the other characters lately in any mainstream game, counting RPG spinoffs.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Cold day in hell when Miyamoto is starting to be seen as a slight detriment than normal at this point.

Edited November 15, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Carbo]

But don't worry, because battling is completely, utterly, useless. There is no reason to battle. All you gain from battles are coins, which you already gain a crap-load of at the end of each level, or by selling off useless stickers.

Perhaps I'm just judging from the wrong kind of people here but I've been hearing a lot that this kind of mentality is going to end up biting you in the ass later in the game once some very good and valuable stickers become available for some very expensive prices.

In essence and theory I feel it personally only sounds like a roundabout way of collecting EXP because you're basically getting money for the sake of getting more and/or new moves, as opposed to getting EXP and Badge Points for new moves. Bear in mind I haven't actually played the game so whether that execution ends up working is beyond me, I just hear it's the kind of game that only grows better.

[TrueBlue]

I found the larger plots of TTYD and SPM, along with the hugely expanded cast of characters, to be the biggest draw to the series. Yes the gameplay was great, as were the music and visuals, but the story added so much more. Stripping that back is a disappointment.

Oh I agree with you to a point. Both those games had fantastic stories and memorable characters, so I can totally understand the disappointment. It's just something that hasn't really irked me when it comes to this game.

[Nintendoga]

Well not to say I never battle enemies, but I always get that feeling whenever I'm fighting in a battle like "Is this really worth it? Is there really any reason to waste my stickers and kill this guy?" It's gotten to the point of where if a random battle lasts more then 2-3 turns, I contemplate running away, which is fine since you lose nothing from running and the enemies disappear as if you've killed them anyway.

Btw for anyone else playing this game and constantly getting stuck, use this guide

http://mariopartylegacy.com/papermariostickerstar/guides/walkthrough

Incredibly helpful. I don't like using walkthroughs for games, but there comes a point when I get tired of solving a puzzle for what seems to be an eternity.

[Conando]

I have disagree on battles. You're going to have to do them because, everything in World 4 and above gets an upgrade to "Shiny" variants, which take reduced damage from normal sticks. You NEED Shiny or Flashy Stickers, and every single one goes for 20 coins or more. 60 or more for Flashy.

[Nix]

Well, I definitely would prefer some more story in a Paper Mario game. However, the writing is still just as fantastic as it was in the previous games; just kind of saddening that there isn't as much meat to digest along with it.

Despite this though, I'm absolutely loving Sticker Star. I adore the way the game completely embraces its papery...ness. Everything in this game so far feels like it's been handcrafted from some sort of material. Pulling stickers off walls, hammering paper lampposts up, hammering Toads and crumpling them up for a bit, etc; it's very charming and I adore it.

Now for the battle system. It's strange. The completely inventory based system makes me put a lot more thought into what move I'm going to pull off next. I honestly feel more challenged by this game than I have previous Paper Mario games (excluding the optional bosses in the prior games). I died in the first world/chapter, which was honestly surprising to me. It added some difficulty I think, whether or not it needed it, or if that was a good way of doing so is debatable, but I personally like it.

Sticker Star is without a doubt one of those "love it or hate it" games, but I honestly can't say I agree with those who dislike it. I'm loving what I'm playing so far, and I don't expect to start hating it anytime soon.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Pinkamina

[Nintendoga]

@King I did not know that.

So you're telling me I'm going to eventually have to be forced to grind pointless battles? I'm pretty sure the other PM's didn't have you do that.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Mike Dawson

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

I have disagree on battles. You're going to have to do them because, everything in World 4 and above gets an upgrade to "Shiny" variants, which take reduced damage from normal sticks. You NEED Shiny or Flashy Stickers, and every single one goes for 20 coins or more. 60 or more for Flashy.

That... sounds supremely annoying. One of the things I loved about Paper Mario was that I didn't have to do much grinding, or at least when I did it was fun. This....

Edited November 15, 2012 by Sixth-Rate Soma

[Conando]

The thing is that everything stuck to walls gets upgrade to Shiny and Flashy too, and each battle is worth at least 40 coins, with perfect bonuses and goal bonuses being huge.

[Wraith]

Yeah, sorry, Miyamoto. You had a good run, but you're getting too old for this shit.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

The thing is that everything stuck to walls gets upgrade to Shiny and Flashy too, and each battle is worth at least 40 coins, with perfect bonuses and goal bonuses being huge.

...Then what's the point? Why not just keep everything non-shiny and not overcomplicate things?

I understand that the old Paper Mario games had upgrades in them too, but they served some purpose. There was some risk vs. reward stuff going on; a simple depth, sure, but at the very least it could justify its existence, as the moves were varied in the techniques you might pull with them, as well as in the timing required to perfect them.

I suppose I might put this in FPS terms. When I get a new gun in an FPS, I expect it to do something different. Perhaps this one has more knockback, this one more damage per second, etc. Even the simpler upgrades in guns, like pistol to rifle, change the nature of the game in some fashion and add a new layer of depth to the game. If I were to play a shooter, and the only sorts of upgrades were some variation of "pistol to pistol+2," I'd be kinda ticked. The game seems to want to have its cake and eat it too; it wants to give me a new gun to play with, but it doesn't want to compensate for any more depth in combat, so it give me a gold pistol and expects me to go along with it.

I'm fine with upgrades, I'd just rather they serve some purpose beyond "being upgrades."

(This might be a completely invalid criticism, seeing as how my only knowledge of the game is from second-hand sources, but I just wanted to address this in case).

Edited November 16, 2012 by Sixth-Rate Soma

[TrueBlue]

Are people worried that this game is too much like "mainstream Mario"? I don't buy it. Sure, the locales. simple story and lack of partners may support this, but I'm not seeing the problem. The general aesthetic alone is enough to separate it from the main series, as well as the general design and writing. I think Paper Mario still has its identity while being more recognizable to a wider audience, and I think that's a good thing.

[Octarine]

Maybe it's just because I don't play Mario platformers especially often, but I feel like dialing back on the story sort of makes sense in this case. In terms of just the Paper Mario series, the last game was about all realities ever being in peril; it's pretty much impossible to go any bigger than that. Taking a step back and doing a relatively simple, low-key story for the entry after that was probably a wise move.

I mean, I guess that it sucks that Miyamoto's interfering unnecessarily and I hope this won't become a trend (more than it already is, anyway), but it kind of worked out for the best this time, maybe? If the heavy paper focus this time was his idea, then I'm certainly grateful for that at least. Future games in the series ought to keep that up, because it looks like a huge improvement over what any of the first three did with the paper theme.

The thing that actually worries me is the combat system, since I'm one of the worst compulsive item hoarders you're likely to meet. I'm going to pick the game up this weekend, anyway, so I guess I'll find out.