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Conquering Storm’s Servant

The Fallen Cast...

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Honestly, CSS, I have to disagree with you on this point as well. There's no point for Silver to bring something "back" with him. The only way it would work out for Silver to remain in the present is if he was STUCK there after one of his "jump-backs." I definitely think that "Little Planet" is the most plausible method of Silver getting back to the past. If that is explored some more, it could prove to be an interesting feature.

Regardless, I just don't see a point. Merging the future and past... bad move. That'll cause some serious issues. One character getting stuck in the past because he's used up all his resources... that's a different story all-together.

On another note, I still don't see where its implied that Tikal is "dead," but I won't get into that because pretty much everyone else will disagree with me on that. Oh, and she was playable... technically... just not in the game she first appeared in, and only as an extra character for multiplayer.

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It's logically necessary (to me atleast) because I wouldn't see any problem with Silver being around in any plot if that happened. It dodges the problem of Silver relying on time-traveling as the only way for him to appear in a plot from then on and he can still have his own story afterwards and be his own character, but time travel wouldn't have to play any part of who he is anymore if a part of his future was placed into the present, and therefore frees his development from him being a time cop and allowing him to become something more.

All of which would still be possible WITHOUT bringing the future with him. :rolleyes:

The fact that you find this logically necessary is baffling.

The point in doing so would be so that like your idea, he could simply live in the present taking part in whatever he gets involved in within the plot, but also like my idea him being from the future remains a part of who he is regardless of what he does from then on and we wouldn't have to worry about time-travel anymore.

No it wouldn't because he's IN THE PRESENT NOW.

You can make him bring as many souvenirs from the future as you want, that will never change the fact that he's NOT in the future anymore.

I find it more better than just Silver being in the present because I see it as a loophole in him bypassing the time cop archetype and preventing him from becoming stale while making it easier to develop him without worrying about him being chained to appearances involving time-travel from then on.

Again, something that can EASILY be done without bringing the future to the present.

If the part of his future he was time-traveling to save was made a part of the present, he wouldn't need to worry about the future anymore. And he's forever free of the shackles of time-traveling chained on to him.

A] He wasn't saving a single city/playground/beanie cushion, it was THE ENTIRE WORLD, REMEMBER?

B] Again, AGAIN, something that can EASILY, EVER SO VERY EASILY WITH NO TROUBLE WHATSOEVER be done without bringing the future to the present.

Edited by Black Spy

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On another note, I still don't see where its implied that Tikal is "dead," but I won't get into that because pretty much everyone else will disagree with me on that. Oh, and she was playable... technically... just not in the game she first appeared in, and only as an extra character for multiplayer.

Well, on the one had, all of the "Rising into a pillar of white light after Chaos' heart has been calmed" had all the cliches necessary to consign Tikal and the blue blob to the great beyond at the end of Adventure.

The thing gets flipped turned upside-down in Battle, though, where Chaos is back and punching Gizoids into the dirt. Leaving the question that if Chaos isn't dead, why would Tikal be dead?

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Are we forgetting that Silver's future sucks? He's not trying to save the world like Sonic, he wants to change it. He wants to make a good future in Act 1.

So I dunno why he'd want to bring the shitty future back with him, he wants all that to disappear. And even if we say his future isn't shitty anymore after the ending of '06, why then would he turn his back on everything he helped save? It's like buying the beach house you always wanted and then moving into a small apartment.

Also, moving entire pieces of time seems more complicated than necessary. It's about on level with Archie's Echidna cities in another dimension, only that story is harder to tell in a game. Plus that would be a permanent change to Sonic's world for the sake of one character. Who many don't consider important. I say no.

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Why would Silver want to be in the present? Assuming it's still screwed up now in some form, (what with Rivals and everything), then a good reason would simply be a refocus of his mission. Silver's intents to make the future a better place only hit a stride when he's in the past in the first place; In the future, he gets frustrated from the immortality of his enemies and finds himself unable to make the large sacrifices necessary for such a gargantuan task. It would be far more logical, and better for his growth as a character, if he stayed in the past with the regular cast and kept it maintained so it could have a good future, and have that future forever (because hey; You never know), instead of trying to stay in the already-fucked-up future and clean up what is nearly uncleanable.

Edited by Nepenthe

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Geez, you sound a little too tense there, Black Spy. I know I'm being stubborn, but I wasn't trying to be an asshole about this debate.

I honestly don't see it as pointless for Silver to rescue the good parts of his world by warping it in time to a safer place in the present rather than let it be destroyed by the very thing he time traveled to the present in order to stop. It kills two birds with one stone the way I see it, since his future is saved by living on as a part of the present and Silver could prevent the future he avoided from happening while he lives on in the present as well.

Even though it wouldn't be the future anymore, it still represent the future he lives it and can still continue on without Silver having to abandon it by staying in the present by himself. Similar to how Onyx Island was transported from the future to the present in Sonic Rivals 1.

I don't want Silver to fade, but at the same time, I don't want his whole future to fade or be abandoned either. That's why I brought up that idea.

But in any case, should we agree to disagree and move on?

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic

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Geez, you sound a little too tense there, Black Spy. I know I'm being stubborn, but I wasn't trying to be an asshole about this debate.

Nah, I was just a bit flabbergasted at such an outrageous suggestion. ^_^;

I honestly don't see it as pointless for Silver to rescue the good parts of his world by warping it in time to a safer place in the present rather than let it be destroyed by the very thing he time traveled to the present in order to stop. It kills two birds with one stone the way I see it, since his future is saved by living on as a part of the present and Silver could prevent the future he avoided from happening while he lives on in the present as well.

Even though it wouldn't be the future anymore, it still represent the future he lives it and can still continue on without Silver having to abandon it by staying in the present by himself. Similar to how Onyx Island was transported from the future to the present in Sonic Rivals 1.

I can understand something like that, but it falls flat because the character doesn't have any sort of connection with anything in the future that would give him a reason to do such a thing, which makes the whole thing come off as pretentious.

I don't want Silver to fade, but at the same time, I don't want his whole future to fade or be abandoned either. That's why I brought up that idea.

We are given no reason to connect with anything in Silver's future, so we have no reason to want the future to be present.

But in any case, should we agree to disagree and move on?

Might as well.

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Well, on the one had, all of the "Rising into a pillar of white light after Chaos' heart has been calmed" had all the cliches necessary to consign Tikal and the blue blob to the great beyond at the end of Adventure.

The thing gets flipped turned upside-down in Battle, though, where Chaos is back and punching Gizoids into the dirt. Leaving the question that if Chaos isn't dead, why would Tikal be dead?

My point exactly. Tikal and Chaos were sealed in the same way, and both were released in the same way, so it doesn't make sense that one would be "dead" and not the other.

Honestly, I think the whole idea about Silver trying to "save" parts of his world by bringing them to the present is kinda pointless... not to mention the fact that we don't even know if Silver's future is a burning inferno, anymore. As far as I'm concerned, it isn't, at least not in Sonic Rivals. In Sonic Rivals 2 it is heavily implied to be because Eggman Nega changed the future once again after Silver fixed the previous thing that Nega did.

Either way, I think that SEGA will keep him in the past at a later point just to try and make it easier to use him. Once this happens, his initial "story" will be finished up and they can focus on different plot-points for him.

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Nah, I was just a bit flabbergasted at such an outrageous suggestion. ^_^;

Well, you'll get that alot from me, as you can already tell. B)

With that said, Silver seems to be a bit of a problematic one...well, from my standing. There's a lot he can do, but so little he can work with, and a lot of attempts to solve that may be tricky or as we can tell from this whole debate, risky...or however you may see it.

So without further ado, we'll jump to the next boat.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Before we get started on the next character here's a few things we're going to lay down the line.

NO PRO- or ANTI- crap, comprende? I don't care how much you like or hate this character, we're not discussing this character to treat him as shit or as a god. I've noted Flyboy about this a day ago, so I don't want to see a shitstorm come out of anyone. You've been warned.

So if it isn't obvious enough, the next character we're going to talk about is Shadow the Hedgehog.

The Black Blur has had some really big ups and downs, probably moreso than any other character in this series. He's had his good parts in SA2, his meh parts in Heroes, his shit parts in his very own game, and he's started to recover somewhat in Sonic 06 despite how that game turned out.

While he supposedly died in SA2, the folks in charge saw fit to bring back the character out of fan service, and if we're going to go by what Iizuka said in an ShTH interview, his preparation for his own game. While it's practically impossible to deny that he was brought back out of fan service, it is very arguable as to whether or not anyone asked for him to get his own game, let alone a game with guns and vehicles if that were actually the case.

So what are the good qualities of Shadow? The guy seems to have quite a large development on his back. Whether or not it is good or bad, it is development nonetheless. He went from a central antagonist along with Eggman and Gerald in SA2, to whatever he was in Heroes, to a whole bag of things in ShTH before settling down as a soldier/agent within GUN's ranks. And who knows what else he could be? He somewhat has the credit for expanding the capabilities of the Chaos Emerald, where they not only allow one the capabilities of becoming super powerful, but also allow one to manipulate time and space as well. And Chaos Control seems to have expanded into more than it orignally was for.

While he seems to play more of the hero nowadays, there's still somewhat of a possibility of Shadow becoming or helping out the forces of evil if it suits whatever cause he's going for. Granted, his mind was manipulated in SA2 so that he could carry out Gerald's wish of global destruction over Maria's wish of global peace(or happiness). Aside from that, he isn't easily fooled, and knows exactly (of most of) the causes and consequences of his choices that lead him to do whatever he seeks to accomplish.

Needless to say that doesn't overshadow his flaws. The biggest flaw would be his portrayal in his very own game. While we knew everything about him, it seemed as though we needed more to explain about the very past we had knew much about. It's arguable to some, but it doesn't seem as though that was necessary the way I look at it. And it's even more of a problem with the whole "Who I am"/amnesia drama that came with him. He could've gotten that information by exploring the Ark at the very least, or the GUN database which was sure to contain a lot of data on him since that was the very place he was locked up for 50 years. I'm not against alien in the series, but there could been a better way to go about it than the Black Arms in my honest opinion.

Probably the biggest goof up that was made as a set up for his own game would be his survival after SA2. Whether or not he was supposed to die in that game, if he were to be brought back there was a simpler way to bypass that without junking it up in his game. At the very least that could have been explained without having to go throught his game if his game presented a problem to many of you.

Even though he isn't chained down by a lot, he certainly seems to have the most flaws that stand out among the characters. To that extent, there are those who want to rid him of the franchise than to find ways to make him interesting than a nuisance. If there's a way to make a character better, without getting rid of them, why not take that route?

In any case, there is a lot that Shadow could do. However, those uses may come off as smothering to a certain extent. Even as my favorite character, he isn't always needed for everything. And to be honest, I think he could be best used for more serious threats in plots.

But that's not to say he can't be used in less-than-serious situations, or even those outside of what he's been given. He's always seen as Sonic's rival, but why not as a contender against other characters like Knuckles? It shouldn't have to be so predictable should it?

So without being one-sided on the character what are your thoughts and improvements on Shadow?

Edited by ChaosSupremeSonic

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As of currently, I think that now that Shadow got all that ugly backstory done and over with, I think he's in the perfect position to move forward and develop his character based on who he was throughout the series.

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'Eh, I think that Shadow's worst part was Sonic Heroes. If it wasn't for how badly they explained his returned, we wouldn't have had such a crappy deal in Shadow the Hedgehog.

Now, as far as Shadow goes, I don't think the ending of Shadow the Hedgehog means that he won't ever again look back to the past. I believe it is moreso just to keep him from relying TOO MUCH on the past. As such, I think it'd be fine if he brings up things here and there, and I wouldn't be surprised if he does later on. Its just that his past won't get in the way of him developing as a person, anymore.

Either way, I thing Shadow's backstory is pretty good overall... but Shadow the Hedgehog DID complicate it a bit. I didn't mind the game itself that much, but one major problem is that they added the whole Black Doom scenario, which I don't think was really that necessary. They could've easily had him recover his memories without adding in the whole "Black Doom's blood was used to create Shadow" thing.

One thing I keep on wondering, though, is this whole notion about Shadow being created... thinking it over, Gerald created the "Ultimate Life Form." Does that necessarily mean that he created Shadow himself? Gerald could've just easily enough taken an existing hedgehog (its implied he did the same thing with the Biolizard), raised him up in isolation (later growing attached to Maria), and then afterwards (or perhaps during this whole time) Gerald experiments on Shadow to try and create an "ultimate life form." Hence, Shadow still grew up normally to his current age before becoming ageless.

Just an idea.

Either way, I definitely think its good that he's not relying more on his past now. I also like how he joins GUN alongside Rouge, as a sort of "forgiving his past transgressor" type of situation. Him not only forgiving GUN, but joining them, shows how much he has developed.

I also think that he's the best type of rival for Sonic. Metal Sonic was created for the sole purpose of destroying Sonic, so although Metal Sonic is a good rival... he's not really one to compete. Shadow knows he's the ultimate life form, and he's not afraid to go and prove that to other people, Sonic included. This also sets him apart from Knuckles, as Knuckles isn't really a true rival, nor was he ever. Knuckles only really is Sonic's "rival" whenever he's tricked by Eggman, or perhaps someone else could do it instead (so far its always Eggman, at least).

Shadow's also quite open. He can fit fairly easy into a lot of areas, and could even play a villainous role in a game, or turn around elsewhere and help out the heroes. In any case, though, its all for HIS benefit. That and to keep Maria's wish (putting his past behind doesn't mean he's going to forget that).

Regardless, I definitely don't think he should be in OMG EVERY GAME IN THE SERIES! However, as long as he doesn't (and he really hasn't... most main games and spinoffs, but he never once appeared in the Rush or Riders games plot-wise, or in Unleashed, another "main" game), so I think Shadow's pretty good overall. It was mainly a bad "return" that caused most of the problems with him, but this issue has since been rectified. Just don't overuse him.

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SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG

Some things I like about Shadow are his possible roles as anti-hero or villain, and believe it or not his origin story. The test tube part, not the alien part. Because I think it was deliberately fashioned after Sonic's own Kintobor story which is no longer canon. I feel Shadow is stuck in his boring job at GUN. The guy has potential.

It just makes me upset seeing his story break apart after SA2, so here's how I would have done it. The dude should not be an alien, he's already been created in a lab. Aliens too is too much. So he would return in his game, rescued by the Black Arms and suffering from amnesia. Because of his fall he'd be easy to lie to, so they get him to start blowing things up. He's angry at humanity but doesn't know why. Suddenly he'd remember what happened to him in SA2, and fifty years ago, and be forced to make the same choice again. Destroy the people who killed his family on the ARK, or save them like Maria wanted. So he kicks some alien butt.

I really like him in the role of brutal protector, kind of like a Venom from Spider-Man character. I'll save these innocents, but I'll eat your brains. No mercy. I also like the idea of him claiming the ARK as his home, and judging humanity from orbit. I wrote something about that in an old future speculations thread, because Shadow needs to end up there. I'd also give him a fascination with living weapons like in Archie, and an interest in Gerald's previous work like genetics. I'd like him to consider Gerald and Maria family, so he could maybe have ties with Eggman that would bring him into conflict with the rest of the more heroic cast.

Basically, make him badder. Don't mess up his story by having him work for the people that screwed up his life and then locked him in cold storage Han Solo style. Give him some personality development. Recreate his connection to the Robotnik family and the ARK. And please, please, never mention the Black Arms again.

Edited by Dabnikz

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Oh, Shadow. The one character in this series where I put my head in my hands and just ask "why?"

I genuinely liked Shadow in SA2. I thought he was interesting and used effectively. But after that, everything went to hell.

To go back to what I said when I was talking about Silver, Shadow's story ended, very conclusively, in SA2. Were it left like that, it would've been a very satisfying end to an interesting character. Where things went wrong, was in trying to give him a new story. Bringing him back with no explanation leads to one possible story, figuring out how he survived. Having amnesia ties into it, but also serves as a story on its own. Then they introduce the Shadow androids, which (while it does tie in with his amnesia) is another potential story.

And then they marginalize two of those three so they can shove aliens into the mix. It's a mess, and what should've done the job of defining the new Shadow only ended up hurting him. All those potential stories were tied up, none of them particularly satisfyingly, and the game basically ends with "welp, I got nothin'".

People say '06 made Shadow better...but I don't see it as a matter of making him good, as much as not making him bad. He doesn't angst about his past, he's got his memory back...so, now what? Some vague stuff with GUN, and hanging out with Team Dark...it doesn't really seem to go anywhere. He's lost his story, and he hasn't been integrated into Sonic's, so he just sort of floats there.

Shadow is a character that I think is best served by giving him his own story, one that is distinct from but often intersects with Sonic's. Making him subservient to Sonic's story would only serve to ruin him. They could probably get away with just having him as a rogue antihero, shutting down Eggman's schemes on his own (or with the help of Rouge and Omega), and occasionally clashing with Sonic over how best to handle things (Shadow being more likely to take the violent route and try to shut things down for good, Sonic just doing what's needed to chase Eggman off in the hopes he'll eventually learn his lesson). They could build up a more specific/nuanced story for him as they go, if they felt they needed to.

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Hmm. Where do I begin on Shadow? There's so much to gather my thoughts on regarding his development considering he's the character that's had the most of it, and almost all of it has been controversial to some degree. But I suppose I can start by saying that I probably find it more sensible, interesting, and linear than most people do:

In Heroes, Shadow's amnesia actually does some real good in downplaying the more introverted facets of his personality and giving us a look into other characteristics. He doesn't hate humanity simply because he doesn't remember that he's supposed to, so we get a guy who is more prone to smiling and taking pleasure in the adventure, (His "Hope you can keep up with me!" line and participation in bingo seem to suggest as such).

Subsequently, his drive to figure things out isn't malicious; He's far more passive to Eggman than he might've been otherwise due in part to a desperate curiosity he naturally had, and this softening of Shadow makes him arguably the most empathetic character in the game. I think had Heroes' plot been better handled, it could've been one of the most fun interpretations of Shadow overall.

Moving on to ShtH, his misanthropic qualities manage to return, but along with an increased aggression, I find it easy to chalk that up to frustration. The entire journey was convoluted, and not only from an audience point of view--

Between Heroes and ShtH, Shadow only managed to gather back one particularly horrific memory which could reasonably prompt some rage, he only got straight answers from the people who might've known something only after destroying their forces or doing their errands, this was all happening in the midst of a random alien invasion wherein he was naturally obligated to do something about it, and Sonic was asking him about racing. I'd be pretty grumpy too.

But at the very least, this all helps highlight Shadow's more snarky or amusing moments. Things like his reaction to Tails' plane crash, the ease of finding a Chaos Emerald on the ship, or the Glyphic Canyon's flight abilities at least serve to break the tension and give him some credibility that he's capable of showing different emotions or being a little lax every now and again. And it smacks of his response to being given the wonderful responsibility of blowing his militaristic tormentors to Hell in SA2; A little smirk is worth a thousand words.

As brief as these moments were in SA2, Heroes, and ShtH, I appreciate that they were there, and considering Shadow's thrown away the thing that's been bogging him down, it would've been nice to see more of a sarcasm or dry wit develop further and make his presence a bit more welcoming. I consider that a flaw of his '06 interpretation, a characterization that is devoid of humor or enjoyment, but it's made up with for having the best-written campaign in the game.

There, we have a character who's completely content with following orders, finishing the mission, and calling it a day being forced into very tempting circumstances where he must make decisions on his own that affect the lives of a society that'll supposedly wrong him again at a moment's notice, regardless of his previous heroism or obedience. It's a scenario that's interesting and was written just solidly enough, even within the context of a really bad game, to gather a consensus that Shadow was actually improving.

I think there's more I could cover in terms of characterization, much less some of the controversy or preposterous generalizations that still run rampant, (I've learned from many a Sonic fan that if I ever have problems with my friend being murdered by the same military that captures me for no reason, I'd be considered "emo" and subject to mocking if I had a natural reaction of rage and mourning). But I think that's the fun of a character like Shadow; There's still a bit to reasonably debate and talk about, even if he's not in the limelight anymore.

But if I could sum Shadow up somehow, I'd liken him to a fish out of water, in-universe as the protector of a society that is not nearly as loyal to him as he is to it, and in real life as a character that has been the vehicle for most of the mature content such a friendly series has displayed in its most recent years. He's also the poster child for one of the worst habits of both the fanbase and society as a whole in that we would rather ostracize or destroy anything and everything that is potentially good just if it's merely foreign or uncomfortable.


(My own, nitpicky tangent: I've always had this niggling feeling that Shadow's return wasn't all induced by fanservice; Exacerbated by, sure, but I don't think it's the only reason--

Remember, Heroes was released two years after SA2, suggesting their development cycles were concurrent; Also note that Heroes was probably a bigger developmental effort than SA2 with it being multiplatform and running on new hardware. Furthermore, Team Dark's story is as interwoven into the plot as the others', if not moreso considering it had longer-reaching consequences. And finally, the Chaotix were also brought back despite their lesser popularity, and in fact, far more popular scrapped characters than them are still absent.

So when people say Shadow was brought back only due to his popularity, it carries a connotation that impies he was shoe-horned in at the last second and only for financial gain despite the fact that all of the above could easily demonstrate otherwise.

And then remember, Shadow is Iizuka's baby, his most notable character-- I imagine he still would've been in Heroes whether we actually liked the hedgehog or not. xP)

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He doesn't angst about his past, he's got his memory back...so, now what?

He could form a rogue freedom fighting group with Team Dark as sort of Chaotic Neutral protectors.

Shadow himself I can easily see going the Hancock route (i.e a rogue jerkass super hero who tries to help out but often times simply does what he wants without a care in the world), with a little less of the "jerkass" part.

What Nepenthe said

Yeah, pretty much this.

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I don't think anyone can argue Shadow wasn't cool or at least pretty interesting in SA2. I mean heres this hedgehog who's an awful lot like Sonic in ability and skill yet brooding and tortured. Shadow for all his malice and sharp skills is a bit naive to boot, like a child in a certain sense. I guess thats due to being put into frozen animation but its a certain aspect that I feel only SA2 and Shadow the Hedgehog touched on really...

Heroes kind of sucked story wise all around but Shadows clearly was the worst case. The game re-introduces him and opening movie for Team Dark seems to make their main objective finding out whats going on with the guy but then...it all ends up being ignored till near the end when its all like "WHEP SHADOW ANDROIDS THROWING THE EXISTANCE OF SHADOW INTO DOUBT LOL" . The Sonic X version of events makes far more sense.

I liked the concept of Shadow the Hedgehog and some of the story, though most of the storylines turn plain stupid. The final story is just a shambles and its a shame that the hanging plot point the game hinged on to begin with is reduced to a sound bite you only hear if you hang around in the final boss long enough. The aliens thing was weird because well...they are never aluded to again, at least the Lumas make sense in Mario's Universe but the Black Arms just randomly show up to try and invade this planet (which they dont seem to care all that much about) and hatch a plan which somehow involves putting ultimate power into an anthro Hedgehog instead of another alien or robot or something that....y'know would make sense.

In terms of where he goes from here. I still fancy him being ying to sonics yang and maybe a more logical voice in making decisions. Plus a powerful character who wont hold back on bringing the whuppings when everyone else wont. In terms with rest of cast - I always think he might relate with Cream a bit who might remind him of Maria and other younger characters considering hes a bit impulsive and emotional. Though still a bit of a lovable wiseass who has a slightly gloomy outlook

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For some reason, I can seem to put a finger on what I think shadow should be.

I remember thinking about it once, but I can't really remember what it was.

Shadow was an interesting character when he didn't have his memories, as it provided plenty of room to play around with his character.

However, when he regained his memories, there is nothing that is apealing about him, other than the fanboys typical "He's SO cool and badass" argument that just doesn't fly.

I like his personality in Sonic 06, when he was put in a corner by Mephiles (who I thought was a great villain). He said that even though people may turn on him, he'l continue to fight like he always has.

That could be an interesting direction for Shadow.

We could bring the "Maria" angle back. She said she wanted Shadow to ensure that everybody was happy. To this extent, his mission could just be to bring about peace everywhere.

This could work rather well if Shadow avoids saying Maria every 5 seconds.

For example, he is asked why he is doing whatever.

Bad response:

" Because its what Maria wanted!"

Good response:

"Because I had made a vow to bring about peace"

In other words, Maria's entire existence should only really be implied.

The idea that Shadow's mission is to bring peace could mean that he crosses paths with Sonic, as he may feel that Sonic is disrupting the peace and could.

This would make him a decent anti-hero. Of course with Sonic games being the way that they are, it would end with him being good at the end.

That is of course if what I suggested is ever taken into consideration.

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(I've learned from many a Sonic fan that if I ever have problems with my friend being murdered by the same military that captures me for no reason, I'd be considered "emo" and subject to mocking if I had a natural reaction of rage and mourning).

This.

Someone having the one person he knew and loved murdered in front of him and imprisoned and then having his mind put through the blender is not "emo". "emo" is being a teenager with wealthy/loving/supportive parents and moanign how your life sucks ("how can I feel PAIN when you're beign so supportive!?") and wanting to be 'gloomy' as a lifestyle. What Shadow is genuine trauma and horror in his past...

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^ But this is the whole contradiction of having a dark character in a series like this. His story is tragic, but he can't very well brood about in a serious way. The closest they can get to that is some wounded emo cliche, which is what Shadow comes off as. Shadow acts more like a whiny kid than a refugee.

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^ But this is the whole contradiction of having a dark character in a series like this. His story is tragic, but he can't very well brood about in a serious way. The closest they can get to that is some wounded emo cliche, which is what Shadow comes off as. Shadow acts more like a whiny kid than a refugee.

While the series is generally lighthearted, it's not as if that lightheartedness takes on a Heroes-like tone where themes of teamwork are forced upon the audience in such a Care Bears fashion as to be nauseating to anyone over the age of 3. The best-loved narratives in the games, (and the tone that seems to be returning as a whole), are more balanced entities of cheeriness and seriousness; Ex. The classic games, the Adventure series, Unleashed, and the Storybook series. And it's this type of balance that allows the franchise to be more than capable of handling themes such as how a tragic death affects people.

Shadow as a whole really isn't as out of place as his detractors try to make him out to be, no more of an anomaly than his classic counterpart Metal Sonic who is considered a cold, unfeeling, killing machine, the absolute worst thing an entity can be, something that completely forgoes the happier themes more than the death of a minor would, a line that Shadow himself canonically won't cross, but something that the fanbase still actually likes and welcomes because, hey, it's Metal Sonic and he's classic and cool and shtuff. Feh; It's bullcrap, I say.

Also, everyone says Shadow acts more like a whiny kid or an emo or something, but there's always a significant lack of examples they bring forth. The farthest I've personally seen people explain, a term I use lightly, is when they sarcastically quote "Maria," but if saying the name of someone you cared about who has long since passed is emo and laughable, then you guys must REALLY hate this film.

It's gotten to the point now where I consider most of the negativity to Shadow's themes and general personality run-off from the embarrassing overreaction to the fact that he not only got his own game in the first place, but got his own game that happened to be the vehicle for experimental ideas such as gunplay and "profanity," things that rather elitist people at the time were content shoving down everyone else's throats as a Biblical abomination while they were whining that Shadow was taking Sonic's place. It's the same thing that happened when humans and realism started getting hate when Sonic '06 came around (despite the fact the beloved Adventure series used the same themes), and when the Werehog got absolutely destroyed when that picture leaked.

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Shadow as a whole really isn't as out of place as his detractors try to make him out to be, no more of an anomaly than his classic counterpart Metal Sonic who is considered a cold, unfeeling, killing machine, the absolute worst thing an entity can be, something that completely forgoes the happier themes more than the death of a minor would, a line that Shadow himself canonically won't cross, but something that the fanbase still actually likes and welcomes because, hey, it's Metal Sonic and he's classic and cool and shtuff. Feh; It's bullcrap, I say.
Hm, I'd say it's more of a case of depth than breadth. The series doesn't need to be light and fluffy all the time, it can have legitimately evil characters...but there's a certain depth that it "shouldn't" cross. Metal may be (potentially) more reprehensible than Shadow, but he doesn't need much depth to justify it; simply being Sonic's evil twin is enough to support the character, as long as it's kept to a similar level. But a lot of Shadow's character rests on some pretty deep themes; if the series can't go that deep, the character falls apart. How deep the series can go is up for debate, of course...

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