The Fallen Cast...

[Chaosmaster8753]

Who'll be next?

[Little T]

Who'll be next?

Before the subject changes. here's my say on Tails:

I think the main problem with Tails recently is he has gone a bit ignored. There are so many other sidekicks for Sonic stealing his place, meaning he doesn't have time to be friendly with Sonic. Besides that: I don't have a problem with Tails being good at making machines like I see some do, but I always feel that Tails is a young an innocent character, being 8 after all, and it feels kind of lost. He seems to know everything and doesn't seem innocent enough.

[offtopic] Also, I'm new here. I've actually been lurking these boards for some time, but I thought I might as well make a post [/offtopic]

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Oksy, I can see that you all a bored.

So why don't we go onto Big the Cat shall we.

The big purple feline's debut got him a lot of flak on the count of his gameplay more so than anything else. His intelligence only gets further picked off because of his gameplay, and as such his character wasn't always put in a positive light in the past.

That's not to say that we would've seen the end of the big guy. He gets off with some cameos before getting another role in Heroes. Depending on who you ask, his Heroes potrayal is either good or bad. I personally see it in a more positive light on the count of his gameplay not being on fishing. But this isn't about gameplay of course.

So what do we know about Big? Honestly, no matter how much you hate him, the guy represents a very dedicated friend, probably THE most dedicated in the series. Seriously, you have a cat who is usually non-violent, but is able to pick-up cars with minimum effort, and he nearly goes through hell and back in trying to save his best friend Froggy. Okay, maybe not "hell" per se, but who would willingly go to places like the Egg Carrier and facing a giant monster that your friend is in...with a FISHING POLE? On top of that, imagine that person actually succeeding in rescuing his friend with said fishing pole and getting away safely.

And let's not get on his intelligence...he apparently knows how to fly a plane when trying to get off the Egg Carrier, and you can't be stupid if you know how to do that.

The way I see Big is as a potential comic relief kind of hero. So you have the main hero trying to save the day, only to have him be upstaged by the last person you would expect to be heroic.

From my stance as of now, Big is among my LEAST liked characters in this series. But let's be real here, just like any other character there's a lot to do with Big. The problem is finding out where to pull him off decently. Aside from that, he does seem to be gaining some popluarity nowadays. He's respectable in my book despite me not liking him much, but if Sonic Team can put him in a decent role, he could eventually be among the most liked characters.

[Teoleulbogo]

As a character, I really do like Big. He, for some reason, kinda reminds me of Forrest Gump. He's not to bright, but he is committed to his friends, and will to do what ever it takes for anyone he sees as a friend. In terms of game play though, Big really got the Short end of the stick(Puns!!!). When he was introduced with a fishing gimmick, that didn't even seem the best implemented, it didn't really help his character, and in heroes he was really just the token power type, with very little originality.

Despite this, I do believe he could be implemented well into the series. Perhaps if they combined the two different styles of game play he was given, something like a beat'em up with fishing peppered in every now and then. At least you'll be able to say that it's not like any other beat'em up on the market.

[Diogenes]

Big's awesome, and has always been awesome.

Okay, yes, the fishing sucked. No one's going to argue about that. But there's more to Big than his gameplay in one game.

As a character, he's a big, doofy cat who wants nothing more than a peaceful life but is also very dedicated to his friends. He's not the sort of character who's ever going to be taking a main role in the story; at most he's going to bumble along, either on his own or with the other heroes, until whatever's preventing him from chilling out is settled. And that suits him; it's consistent with his character, and it adds a bit of levity in a series that tends to take things a bit too seriously. And as a cameo character, he provides the same sort of benefits without having to actually work him into the story logically. If they are going to make him playable in the future, though, I'd say take more inspiration from Heroes than SA; make him a big guy who smashes his way through to whatever his objective is.

I think, aside from focusing too much on his first gameplay style, most people's problem with Big is that he's not "cool". Which is only a problem because of the false assumption that every character has to be "cool", and is why most of the characters who aren't "badass" (read: eh kills robots and doesn't afraid of anything) tend to be hated on sight, without regard to their role in the series or their positive traits (or their actual negative traits, actually...).

[Marcello]

And let's not get on his intelligence...he apparently knows how to fly a plane when trying to get off the Egg Carrier, and you can't be stupid if you know how to do that.

Wasn't that him just jumping down with it and crashing it?

[Diogenes]

Wasn't that him just jumping down with it and crashing it?

Unless your plane is designed like a glider, I wouldn't expect it to get very far by just dropping. He did crash on the landing, but I have to imagine he worked out the controls to enough extent to get him to the Mystic Ruins and crash in a way that didn't kill him.

I'm not sure I'd agree with CSS on what that implies about his intelligence, though.

[Marcello]

I think they were over the Mystic Ruins. When Sonic jumped off he landed there.

[Rusty Spy]

Despite how much I love Big, I understand that Big has little use in the games aside from the occasional cameo.

[Diogenes]

I think they were over the Mystic Ruins. When Sonic jumped off he landed there.

True.

Though still, just jumping off with a plane may as well be jumping off with a boulder. For it to be a survivable fall, I'd imagine you'd have to pilot it to some extent...but then, Sonic landed fine...but then why would Big bother with the plane in the first place...?

...okay, checking the cutscene again, he definitely flies it away from the exploding Egg Carrier.

[Nepenthe]

If I were to forego the sudden popularity boost he's recently received as well as the seething hate that came before, I'd find Big to be merely an okay character, completely average and inoffensive, someone who is just there.

His Horton-esque personality is indeed lovable when taken in large doses, but regardless there's really nothing spectacular about him. After all, his personality and status as a side character deem he get involved in the fight as little as possible, so we don't get to see a lot of him anyways, at least personally to warrant strong feelings either way about him. His slowness is only just enough to the point that he's merely charming instead of outright stupid (minus Chronicles, but grrrrr), so it's difficult for him to provide high-level comic without it coming across as merely amusing or the result of some out of character writing. He has no special powers, and his strength, while commendable, isn't really exceptional. He has no real character issues or even any potential tangents for interesting development, so he's going to be pretty stagnant for, well, forever.

Umm, his fishing gameplay was easy, if overly controversial because we like to pick and choose which irrelevant forms of gameplay are more irrelevant than other irrelevant forms of gameplay when really they're all the same kind of irrelevant, and uh....

Well, that's all I can say about this guy. Really, Big is just a boring, static character. He's easy to defend and not really hurting anything by being there, but that's all he is; He's just there. Despite his newfound love in the fanbase, if they dropped him from the cast right now, I wouldn't miss a step.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I'm not sure I'd agree with CSS on what that implies about his intelligence, though.

I meant in more so to the fact that he's not a literal dumb character.

Slow? He doesn't seem to have much of a problem telling what is and isn't an immediate threat depending on what he's facing, so who knows.

Oblivious? Possibly, as while he can recognize a threat in front of him he doesn't seem to recognize fully that he's wandered into potentially dangerous areas in his quest to save a friend. Or maybe he just doesn't care?

But dumb? Even for my most disliked character, I couldn't say so. While I've not seen his portrayal in Chronicles, I've not seen anything in Big that actually makes him come across as stupid as folks say he is, which says a lot coming from someone like me. I'm guessing the his whole stupidity was only magnified by his uninteresting gameplay, because I have yet to see such a portrayal.

He's not a genius, and it may take him a while to understand something, but he's certainly not an idiot. Not from what I've seen anyway.

Edited August 2, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Phos]

It's kind of funny how Big could be seen as either a BFG who would risk life and limb for his friend or as a sociopath who only cares about his own enjoyment, and the only difference between the two views is whether or not Froggy Is actually an active participant in this friendship and not simply a pet or captive. Other than that, he's pretty bland, aside from when the game forgets to load his texture making him look like the result of Tikal exploding.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Okay...even with his rising popularity, Big hasn't exactly given this topic too much attention.

Might as well move on. Next up is Dr. "Eggman" Robotnik.

We all know him, we all love him. The guy's one of the single most intellegent man in the series alive and the guy can literally tear the world a new asshole...more like a whole new cracks if you look at Unleashed.

But at any rate, the supergenius is certainly not the kind of guy you wanna take lightly. Whether or not you see him as evil or warped in the head, the guy's flat out dangerous, and there's no arguing with that. We see such big plans out of him wanting to rule the world, and yet the guy just never seems to get beyond a mere touch of achieving that goal. That damn Sonic always comes and ruins his plans!

But even with that mention, Eggman has accomplished more than any villian or hero in the series. Okay, so Sonic always comes in to save the world, but Eggman sure does make quite a mess that could make your typical villian gasp in awe. Holding the entire planet hostage in SA2, shattering the world in several pieces in Unleashed, creating a robotic superweapon that betrayed him for no reason in Heroes (come on, we could at least give him SOME credit in that game), unleashing ancient monstrosities upon the world, and the list just keeps stacking up with every new game.

But with every achievement, there are some potential downfalls. For one, it seems as if every plot nowadays involve him trying to go after some ancient source to help him conquer the world. The Chaos Emeralds are among the most prominent examples...heck their one of the major icons of this series, but along with the CEs usually comes some ancient evil from centuries ago. We had Chaos in SA1, but that was when this was a fresh idea; Shadow and the Ark would count as well, but less so since it wasn't exactly ancient and actually had some form of connection to him than most other ancient threats; next came the Flames of Disaster, although that technically wasn't the actual name of what the being was; then came Dark Gaia, and at this point - if not sooner - it got a bit old.

Honestly, it could be argued that digging up ancient sources has been his thing since day one ever since the Emeralds were around, but this makes many ask why he doesn't create something that can match up to these ancient threats, or control the ancient threats he released. Perhaps the biggest disappointment would be how he always loses control of said beasts every time he unleashes them.

Next up, you have how his evilness is being portrayed. If you ask me, it's doing pretty nicely. It's not often that you get a villian who is as bumbling and threatening as Eggman. Kinda fresh that it isn't your typical "I'm so evil" kind of villian that you can see 200 miles away, huh? Of course, one could argue that that just isn't good enough, and actually want some evil in the guy that just isn't there.

Lots of things to mention, so much to bring out into the table...what's your view on the good doctor?

[Rusty Spy]

Nothing to complain about him. He's been handled very well recently.

[Diogenes]

Honestly, it could be argued that digging up ancient sources has been his thing since day one ever since the Emeralds were around, but this makes many ask why he doesn't create something that can match up to these ancient threats,

Yeah, 'cause you just wake up one day and say, "well, today, I will build a god".

Anyway, I've got only two complaints about Eggman. First off, he gets screwed over by his monsters too much. I got nothing against him digging up stuff to use in conquering the world, but it seems 99 out of 100 times it ends up falling apart around him, often regardless of anything the heroes have done. Have Eggman be the final boss. Have him keep control of whatever he's dug up until the heroes ruin it. And don't have the whatever-it-is be The Real Final Boss after Eggman's been beaten. Once in a while would be fine, but it's been far, far too common.

Second, he needs more reliance on his machines. Again, I've got nothing against him digging up stuff, but he's also a genius roboticist. The guy made a goddamn Death Star with his face on it. He should be able to do more than throw cannon fodder and a few boss machines at you. They should be able to write competent stories based on just his machines, and they should play a larger role in the story even when there is some gimmick he dug up.

Aside from that, he's awesome.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yeah, 'cause you just wake up one day and say, "well, today, I will build a god".

Hey, now...he could probably pull it off.

[Nerfuffle]

The nefarious villain could attempt to craft a substantial contingency plan once in a while. I mean, why didn’t it occur to him to plant a bomb in half of the deadly killing machines that always betray him? Even Gerald made sure his army of wangsty kamikazes had some respect for their maker.

I’m going to get a lot of flack for this, but I wouldn’t mind a new voice actor too. Pollock has done some good work, and give him points for not going for a cliché accent, but I feel like the villain is trying to hand me a coupon half the time. Pollock sinks back into his old radio announcer shtick, something a lot of people in the industry struggle to cover up.

[Phos]

Other people have already brought up the commonly mentioned bits about his plans constantly backfiring, so I'd like to mention that his redesign is a strange one in that he has an actual gut instead of being shaped like a balloon. It's kind of a weird choice, because none of his other parts really seem reflective of obesity. I also rather enjoyed how he moved in the OVA, almost as though he was filled with helium. The new one never seems to look like he's really moving in a way appropriate for his build, and I'm beginning to suspect that's because there really isn't one. His limbs are too skinny for lumbering to look right, but his body is too big for a natural gait. I guess you could say he's a contradiction in motion. It didn't help that they gave his this really veiny nose in Unleashed's CG stuff, making it look like one of those intentionally creepy realistic video game character pictures. His goggles are also spaced too far apart on their band to cover his eyes. I've always had this funny thing about not liking characters who always wear goggles on their forehead but never put them over their eyes.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Phos

[ilcane87]

I love Dr. Eggman, he's as good at being a comic relief as he is at being an evil mastermind.

In a way he reminds me of Bowser, who is also comedic but evil at the same time (think of his characterization in RPGs).

But while Bowser's balance of humor and evil is more towards humor, Eggman's should be more towards evil, but I think he has been generally handled pretty well in the games, with very few exceptions.

I particularly liked Eggman in Sonic Chronicles, he was true Comedy Gold, while also (blatantly, but whatever ) setting up the heroes for his future evil scheme.

...why, oh why did they cancel that series?

Edited August 6, 2010 by ilcane87

[Nerfuffle]

Other people have already brought up the commonly mentioned bits about his plans constantly backfiring, so I'd like to mention that his redesign is a strange one in that he has an actual gut instead of being shaped like a balloon. It's kind of a weird choice, because none of his other parts really seem reflective of obesity. I also rather enjoyed how he moved in the OVA, almost as though he was filled with helium. The new one never seems to look like he's really moving in a way appropriate for his build, and I'm beginning to suspect that's because there really isn't one. His limbs are too skinny for lumbering to look right, but his body is too big for a natural gait. I guess you could say he's a contradiction in motion. It didn't help that they gave his this really veiny nose in Unleashed's CG stuff, making it look like one of those intentionally creepy realistic video game character pictures. His goggles are also spaced too far apart on their band to cover his eyes. I've always had this funny thing about not liking characters who always wear goggles on their forehead but never put them over their eyes.

Now that I think about it, Eggman’s new look must be a hazard to animate. For the longest time they forgot to rig hips onto his in-game model, so whenever he walked it looked as if he was a stringed puppet having a seizure. My thinking is they were probably trying tomake him look more like a tin soldier, believing they would never have to animate him outside of his hovercraft.

[SchemingMinor]

Now that I think about it, Eggman’s new look must be a hazard to animate. For the longest time they forgot to rig hips onto his in-game model, so whenever he walked it looked as if he was a stringed puppet having a seizure. My thinking is they were probably trying tomake him look more like a tin soldier, believing they would never have to animate him outside of his hovercraft.

Chronicles got the "Aquarian waddle" tapped down right for Robotnik, and if I recall SA2: Battle and the Mario and Sonic games had the walking frames down right (well in SA2:B the running frames.)

If you think about it, his whole anatomy is wonky. He literally has childbearing hips and a pelvis like a woman's:

Then does this mean that Ivo is actually...

[Marcello]

I hated how Eggman walked in Chronicles.

And, about Mike Pollock. While I do like him, I liked Deem Bristow more. Also, I think in '06 he sounded too much like he was narrating.. He was great in other games, though, and anyways, everyone was pretty bad in '06.

[Pikachu in a Sombrero]

Ahh, I love Dr. Eggman. He's always been my favorite video game villain.

I don't really prefer Bristow or Pollock over each other. They're both a perfect fit for Eggman, IMO.

[Mangoaxe5]

I want to see Eggman be more of a threat. He really seemed like a threat in Sonic Adventure 2, but then in Sonic Heroes, and later games, he now seems like a joke, and no longer feels like a threat to Sonic.

I also think that he should be a little more evil. Ever since Sonic X, they have been making him less evil, then how he use to be.

The Archie Sonic comic verison of the doctor is my favorite verison of Eggman.