The Fallen Cast...

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Comparing them like that, saying that X has to be involved for character Y to appear, is treating them in a fairly one dimensional manner. In the case of Knuckles, it gives the impression that the Master Emerald is all he cares about, nothing else is relevant to his interests.

I don't mean to treat them one dimensionally. It's just that there are a few aspects of the character that I feel holds the character back if they appear without some kind of relevance to it and even more so if they are ignored.

Now I don't think the Master Emerald should be the only thing that should be important to him, at least to the extent that he doesn't get involved in things that are significantly more dangerous than it would if he didn't get involved. And I should add that whatever he's getting involved in should be a bit more justified, but not so general that the same reason he gets involved can apply to every other character.

For example, having a character (and it could be any) other than Sonic and/or Tails around to help stop Eggman; it's too general, and it's not really that much justified to the point that it requires an extra hand. On the other hand, having a character to help stop Eggman from brainwashing a galaxy like in Colors; again, it's very general, but unlike the previous case it's justified due to the magnitude of the threat, and in that kind of case it wouldn't really matter what the other characters are doing when they could help prevent themselves from being brainwashed as well.

I want a sense of uniqueness out of the characters, and unfortunately having X being involved for character Y to appear is, although very restricting I'll admit, maintains that sense uniqueness. Of course, I'm not up for running something dry, so I try to use those restrictions to work a loophole around it.

At a certain level, all characters are included out of interest.

True, and that's not a bad thing. What I don't like is including characters solely out of interest, not unless you're going to do the same for another restricted character (which I would probably question that as well) or the whole cast.

I like Shadow, but I don't want Shadow to be included simply because I like him as a character. And the inverse holds true for a character I don't like, such as Big. I want the plot to work with a justified set of characters, not necessarily the other way around. I expect Sonic, Tails (somewhat), and Eggman to be the expected cast, but after that I believe there should be some unique explanation as to why other characters are involved.

IP verified and dealt with. But in future, a report or PM is a much quicker way to alert to a ban-dodger than waiting for a staffer to see it brought up in a topic (:

I assumed Phos had already reported him, so I didn't bother.

There should be something that switches from the mobile skin the the desktop mode tho, Phos, and I think the report button would show up then.

Edited October 12, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Phos]

I want a sense of uniqueness out of the characters

I believe this is where their personalities come into play.

[Kiberbot]

Knuckles does not always protect the M.E.

If you've forgotten, I remind you that Shiro Maekawa turned him into treasure hunter (like in the OVA), and he is not always engaged in duties of Guardian. He somehow managed to become a professional hunter, and therefore gave his spare-time to this.

So it's simple: let Sega make a plot in which Knuckles will be in a role of a treasure hunter, or something like that, and I think it will rectify the situation. At least it will be much better role for him, rather than a role of Sonic's second sidekick.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I believe this is where their personalities come into play.

Now that's one dimensional in itself.

Personality is only part of what makes them unique, and even then it can be shared by another character. There's also their occupation, AKA their job/duties/etc., their abilities, strengths, weaknesses, and lifestyle.

Each one can't be ignored in favor of the other, they all have to work in harmony to achieve uniqueness that is specific to that one character. If you neglect one major aspect of a character, you'll likely end up messing up that harmony with all the other traits.

Knuckles does not always protect the M.E.

If you've forgotten, I remind you that Shiro Maekawa turned him into treasure hunter (like in the OVA), and he is not always engaged in duties of Guardian. He somehow managed to become a professional hunter, and therefore gave his spare-time to this.

Two things:

1) The OVA holds absolutely no weight to the games at all

2) Aside from him merely mentioning he's a treasure hunter in Zero Gravity, Knuckles has barely done any kind of treasure hunting in this series.

So it's simple: let Sega make a plot in which Knuckles will be in a role of a treasure hunter, or something like that, and I think it will rectify the situation. At least it will be much better role for him, rather than a role of Sonic's second sidekick.

Um...no. That's still going to bring up the question of why he isn't guarding the M.E. You need a pretty BIG reason for him to leave the M.E. behind in order to sidestep that problem, and treasure hunting is too minor of an excuse that could fall into the realm of careless neglect, and that wouldn't help his character one bit if he's doing it off his own island unless said treasure hunting has him discovering deadly artifacts, which in that case he's far outclassed by Eggman who does more research and effort into unearthing this artifacts.

Still, not a convincing role to put Rad Red in a plot for. I can think of a few better ways to get him involved than that while still keeping his role as a guardian intact.

Edited October 15, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kiberbot]

1) The OVA holds absolutely no weight to the games at all

2) Aside from him merely mentioning he's a treasure hunter in Zero Gravity, Knuckles has barely done any kind of treasure hunting in this series.

1) I know that. I mentioned OVA as an example.

2) Starting with Sonic Adventure 2, Knuckles known as a professional treasure hunter in games. The same status is indicated in many of his profiles. Knuckles knows many ancient legends, ancient languages, places and temples, he knows about the treasure hunt business, he communicates with other hunters, and heard about Rouge long before they met each other in SA2. Knuckles is a professional in this, and because he is a professional, he spent a lot of time on it. (Everything I wrote above can be learn from official sources and Knuckles’ Recaps from SA2.)

[Sion-Ta]

I personally think getting rid of Angel Island, and making Knuckles a travelling guardian (SA2 style if you will) would be for the best. It's not like the place is safe anymore, since Eggman knows darn well where it's located, and all of it's defences (the zones in S3&K) retconed out of existence thanks to Mr. Sonic Adventure~ This way, Knuckles can still guard the Master Emerald, with the added bonus of having a bit more freedom. c:

Edited October 15, 2010 by .: 16brit :.

[Kiberbot]

Emerald should remain on the island, that's the case. But I like this idea. )

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2) Starting with Sonic Adventure 2, Knuckles known as a professional treasure hunter in games. The same status is indicated in many of his profiles. Knuckles knows many ancient legends, ancient languages, places and temples, he knows about the treasure hunt business, he communicates with other hunters, and heard about Rouge long before they met each other in SA2. Knuckles is a professional in this, and because he is a professional, he spent a lot of time on it. (Everything I wrote above can be learn from official sources and Knuckles’ Recaps from SA2.)

Exactly how many legends, languages, places and temps has he actually been to or known, and exactly how many treasure hunters has he associated with in this entire series?

From what I know, Knuckles only knows of a select few legends, only one ancient language, and hasn't been to very many temples for the sake of treasure hunting.

In addition to that, Knuckles never knew about Rouge until she came to his island. And even then, he didn't exactly refer to her in a sense that showed that he knew about her. And what recaps from SA2 are you talking about?

I personally think getting rid of Angel Island, and making Knuckles a travelling guardian (SA2 style if you will) would be for the best. It's not like the place is safe anymore, since Eggman knows darn well where it's located, and all of it's defences (the zones in S3&K) retconed out of existence thanks to Mr. Sonic Adventure~ This way, Knuckles can still guard the Master Emerald, with the added bonus of having a bit more freedom. c:

I can think of several reasons I've mentioned before why he shouldn't do that.

One, Angel Island just so happens to be a bigger shield for the Emerald while Knuckles is out detering foes away from it. First, you have to FIND Angel Island, and theres a good chance it's not always in the same place. Secondly, you have to FIND the Master Emerald. As large as that island is, it's not going to be that easy of a task, and Knuckles is going to only make it harder. Third, you'd have to get off the island before Knuckles catches up to you. If you can fly, hey, no sweat. Otherwise, good luck.

Two, let's not forget that Angel Island FALLS without the M.E. keeping it in the air. Wouldn't want that to fall on anything that isn't the ocean.

Three, even if we were to forget about Angel Island, but have Knuckles walk around with the M.E. in his pocket somehow, you've just made it easier for a foe to snatch it from him should he ever get defeated or tied up in a fight. Let someone knock him out, or pickpocket him of the gemstone, and you've just created a recipe for trouble, if not disaster if the foe knows how to use it. Believe me when I say that despite how strong Knuckles is, he's not undefeatable.

Four, with something of that kind of power, I'm pretty sure Eggman wouldn't be the only one who would want to use it. Not to mention that given it's power, simply holding it around shouldn't be the only thing it's good for.

Five, the Island hasn't been retconned out of existence. It's still around, and Sonic Team knows that. They just been neglecting it for the sake of having Knuckles around.

[Kuzu]

I'm divided on the whole Angel Island/Master Emerald deal.

1. I do love how it gives Knuckles an interesting role, guarding the most powerful objects in existence, and forced to stay on that island for the rest of his life, unless a bigger threat calls him to action.

On the flipside

2. Its been so out of focus for years, that its almost reduced to a running gag that Knuckles looses it all the time, and its the only thing that keeps him out of the games, I know he's the guardian and all, and won't always get in on the action, but he still is an important character with a major role.

I just kinda wished they emphasized it more. Wait. doesn't Knuckles guard the Chaos Emeralds too? So...seeing how Eggman is constantly after them, wouldn't he[Knuckles] have a reason to team up with Sonic, or at least go after Eggman on his own.

[Sion-Ta]

I can think of several reasons I've mentioned before why he shouldn't do that.

One, Angel Island just so happens to be a bigger shield for the Emerald while Knuckles is out detering foes away from it. First, you have to FIND Angel Island, and theres a good chance it's not always in the same place. Secondly, you have to FIND the Master Emerald. As large as that island is, it's not going to be that easy of a task, and Knuckles is going to only make it harder. Third, you'd have to get off the island before Knuckles catches up to you. If you can fly, hey, no sweat. Otherwise, good luck.

Two, let's not forget that Angel Island FALLS without the M.E. keeping it in the air. Wouldn't want that to fall on anything that isn't the ocean.

Hmm... has it ever been stated that Angel Island moves? I know it did in Fleetway, but I can't recall anything being said relating to the games... Just assumed that since everytime it has fallen, it 's always landed in the ocean, that it just stays in the same spot. Have to look into that sometime. o:

Three, even if we were to forget about Angel Island, but have Knuckles walk around with the M.E. in his pocket somehow, you've just made it easier for a foe to snatch it from him should he ever get defeated or tied up in a fight. Let someone knock him out, or pickpocket him of the gemstone, and you've just created a recipe for trouble, if not disaster if the foe knows how to use it. Believe me when I say that despite how strong Knuckles is, he's not undefeatable.

Well we've come up with a way to get Knuckles involved in the next game then.

But yeah, the M.E. getting stolen isn't really anything new, pretty much happens everytime the thing appears, island or not.

Five, the Island hasn't been retconned out of existence. It's still around, and Sonic Team knows that. They just been neglecting it for the sake of having Knuckles around.

I was referring more to the Island's defences such as the Hidden Palace, since Angel Island was pretty much just an altar in Sonic Adventure... That said, Ice Cap did appear, so I'm guessing that mountain was supposed to be a part of the Island?

But yeah... can't really argue with your points. Could pull the 'using logic for a game about a super fast blue hegehog?" card, but that isn't any fun now is it? XD

Edited October 15, 2010 by .: 16brit :.

[Kiberbot]

Exactly how many legends, languages, places and temps has he actually been to or known, and exactly how many treasure hunters has he associated with in this entire series?

Alas, all this is unknown, becouse it was happening behind the scenes and not during the events of the games. But it was in any case. And for example, in Sonic Chronicles Knuckles went to explore the Mystic Ruins, before he was kidnapped by Marauders.

From what I know, Knuckles only knows of a select few legends, only one ancient language, and hasn't been to very many temples for the sake of treasure hunting.

When Tails asked Knux to read some inscriptions in the temple of Babylon, Tails didn’t know whether he could read them or not, but he still asked, simply because Knuckles has experience in this business, so this ancient language may be familiar to him. Of the known languages, Knux knows at least the language of his ancestors and the language of ancient Babylon, but it is unknown how many languages he knows at all.

In addition to that, Knuckles never knew about Rouge until she came to his island. And even then, he didn't exactly refer to her in a sense that showed that he knew about her. And what recaps from SA2 are you talking about?

Well, you know, when you continue unfinished story mode, then you see a character artwork, and voice of the character says something like "I’m Knuckles the Echidna, just call me Knuckles..." Many people skip these things, but they sometimes tell us interesting facts, and I as a fan of the characters and their development is always watching them. That's where Knuckles mentioned that he was heard about Rouge, becouse she is popular in a society of hunters.

[Kuzu]

IF you're referring to this:

http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_Adventure_2_-_Hero_Journal#Wild_Canyon_.28Knuckles.29

I see nothing that mentions even knowing about Rouge before their first encounter.

I do agree though Knuckles, should know more about ancient tombs and whatnot, and that is one of the things I like about Zero gravity. Who's to say that Knuckles doesn't do some Indy style tomb jumping between games, I mean he can't stay on the island all the time, and people aren't always targeting it.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Hmm... has it ever been stated that Angel Island moves? I know it did in Fleetway, but I can't recall anything being said relating to the games... Just assumed that since everytime it has fallen, it 's always landed in the ocean, that it just stays in the same spot. Have to look into that sometime. o:

Well taking both Sonic 3&K and Adventures in mind, it fell in a different spot.

In Sonic 3&K it was in the middle of the ocean, while in Sonic Adventure it fell somewhere nearby a tourist location of somesort. I'm thinking that since it's in mid-air, while it may stay in the same spot, the earth below it moves...although if we were to really get serious we would also need to explain how it also has a nighttime period if it stays in the same spot, so it has to be in motion somehow.

Well we've come up with a way to get Knuckles involved in the next game then.

But yeah, the M.E. getting stolen isn't really anything new, pretty much happens everytime the thing appears, island or not.

Yeah, but it's how you do it that prevents it from both getting old when you involve it and ruining the character when you go without it.

I was referring more to the Island's defences such as the Hidden Palace, since Angel Island was pretty much just an altar in Sonic Adventure... That said, Ice Cap did appear, so I'm guessing that mountain was supposed to be a part of the Island?

I was refering to the island as well. You still have to find the thing first off, and you still have to get by Knuckles traps or no.

We could assume that under times of great distress, he moves the Emerald to a newer, more safer location. Just about every time since S3&K, he's usually been caught off guard...although I don't know how to explain SA2 except guess that Rouge managed to steal the M.E before getting busted by Knuckles.

But yeah... can't really argue with your points. Could pull the 'using logic for a game about a super fast blue hegehog?" card, but that isn't any fun now is it? XD

You'll make it even worse on yourself if you even try to pull that card. Trust me, I'm crazy prepared for that argument.

Even with a game about a super fast blue hedgehog, this series has quite a fair bit of logic within itself. Some of it may not make any real sense to our real life world, but this series can operate within it's own logic.

Alas, all this is unknown, becouse it was happening behind the scenes and not during the events of the games. But it was in any case. And for example, in Sonic Chronicles Knuckles went to explore the Mystic Ruins, before he was kidnapped by Marauders.

If it's unknown, it can very well be dismissed for lack of evidence. I suggest you be careful when refering to things behind the scenes that haven't even been referenced well enough.

And last I checked, Mystic Ruins was part of Angel Island wasn't it? Although I still have yet to play Chronicles so I don't know what part of the mystic ruins he was exploring nor do I know why he was exploring, which hopefully you can explain to me before I rip the argument even further.

When Tails asked Knux to read some inscriptions in the temple of Babylon, Tails didn’t know whether he could read them or not, but he still asked, simply because Knuckles has experience in this business, so this ancient language may be familiar to him. Of the known languages, Knux knows at least the language of his ancestors and the language of ancient Babylon, but it is unknown how many languages he knows at all.

So that's 2 languages, not counting english. That's relatively few as of now. Eggman probably knows far more given how much he unearths ancient tablets to access ancient evils...and never seems to learn his lesson.

Well, you know, when you continue unfinished story mode, then you see a character artwork, and voice of the character says something like "I’m Knuckles the Echidna, just call me Knuckles..." Many people skip these things, but they sometimes tell us interesting facts, and I as a fan of the characters and their development is always watching them. That's where Knuckles mentioned that he was heard about Rouge, becouse she is popular in a society of hunters.

Evidence, references, and the game please.

I've looked far and deep into this series, and as of I have yet to have heard any information that he knew about Rouge prior to the events of SA2. And I doubt many other people have either. Even Retro doesn't say anything about the two meeting, and the folks there tear this series apart deeper than anyone here can imagine.

And speaking of tearing apart, for a discussion about 3 different characters, we've really been focusing on just one. While that isn't any surprise to me, how about the involvement of Shadow and especially Amy? Amy is way too unrestricted, and yet many of us don't even bother to think of roles for her other than her chasing Sonic, and a lot of folks are all too eager in my honest opinion to look for ways to restrict the Black Blur from being in the games whenever possible, hypocritical bunches aren't they?

But really. We also have Shadow and Amy. Surely Amy could do well with an actual role that doesn't always involve obsessively tailing Sonic? And Shadow could actually have a decent role in helping or fighting against the other characters for whatever his objective is?

I'm up for the idea of Amy maturing a bit more (or a lot so that chasing Sonic isn't the only thing she has in mind, per se), but I'll bet some of you would resist against that idea.

Edited October 15, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kiberbot]

IF you're referring to this:

http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_Adventure_2_-_Hero_Journal#Wild_Canyon_.28Knuckles.29

I see nothing that mentions even knowing about Rouge before their first encounter.

Edited October 15, 2010 by KviKtor Y

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

We DO known, that he IS a professional, so that mean that he has some expirience in that kind of things. Right? We knows that he is professonal/have experience + he demonstrated knowledge of legends and languages = he must be specialists in all this, as any professional treasure hunter. Right?

[Kiberbot]

I wouldn't say a specialist, at least for my own sake, but yeah I'm not going to argue he does have some degree of experience. I need to see more of him actually treasure hunting before I change my mind to fully agree with that.

Well, Okie dokie.

Looked different to me, other than the minecart which was inaccessible until later on in the game, the large cliff was pretty much closed off until in started opening holes from the side in which you could gain access into the island.

Now where exactly did you hear about the island splitting off from the mainland? I must have overlooked that detail. Was it mentioned in Chronicles?

If my memory does not fail me, this was written in the original Japanese Manual of SA1, and also in codex of Sonic Chronicles. Generally, in Chronicles, Ruins and Island are two different locations, the Island flying over the ruins.

That wasn't speculation. Eggman says it out loud in the games every time he does it.

• 
  
  
• SA1 with Chaos: "It's just as the ancient tablets predicted"
  
• Sonic 06 with the Flames of Disaster: "I've come for the legendary Flames of Disaster and the key to unlock it, the Chaos Emerald!"
  
• Sonic Unleashed with Dark Gaia: "It's just as the ancient tablets predicted"
  

Eggman is very vocal with his plans, ya know.

No, I'm not about that. Speculation was in how many languages he know.

[Kuzu]

I wanna get in on the conversation, so what topic are we on now?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

No, I'm not about that. Speculation was in how many languages he know.

Well I doubt the tablets and legends he reads are in english, but he has read more into the legends than Knuckles has as of yet.

I wanna get in on the conversation, so what topic are we on now?

The subject is on where we use the three characters Shadow, Amy, and Knuckles, and why certain aspects are disregarded simply to bring them in the game or brought up to keep them out, and whether or not this heirarchy between the characters should even be relevant for their involvement.

My thoughts are that the heirarchy is "shitty" to put it harshly, and serves no reason other than to encourage favoritism of characters rather than actually using them effectively and without neglecting what makes the character who they are.

[Kuzu]

Well like I said before then, can't Knuckles guard both the Chaos and Master Emeralds, I think it was said he guards all of them, and it would be a legitimate reason for him to temporarily abandon his duties, and go kick ass, sure it would be open for taking, but he can't let Eggman make the same mistakes his ancestors made all those years ago, and that sounds pretty thought out to me.

Amy doesn't really need a reason, she's like Tails, she can appear and won't make people scratch their heads thinking "Why is this character here", she has a crush on Sonic, and wants to go on the Adventures he goes on, Tails is sonic's sidekick, and always willing to fight along side him. Its interchangeable almost.

a

Shadow is a bit more complicated, now if you want to regard his employment in G.U.N. then he can be just as limited as Knuckles, or if you want to disregard that fact, he can appear just as often as Tails, or Amy just not helping Sonic out, and do his own thing.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Well like I said before then, can't Knuckles guard both the Chaos and Master Emeralds, I think it was said he guards all of them, and it would be a legitimate reason for him to temporarily abandon his duties, and go kick ass, sure it would be open for taking, but he can't let Eggman make the same mistakes his ancestors made all those years ago, and that sounds pretty thought out to me.

[Phos]

Amy is way too unrestricted, and yet many of us don't even bother to think of roles for her other than her chasing Sonic, and a lot of folks are all too eager in my honest opinion to look for ways to restrict the Black Blur from being in the games whenever possible, hypocritical bunches aren't they?

I never really got this idea.

A character's abilities can help make them distinct but it's ultimatly a character's personality and how it influences their actions that is going to make them an individual.

[Kuzu]

Kind of hard to guard the Chaos Emeralds when they tend to scatter all over the globe most of the time, bar Unleashed. That and Sonic is more than capable of taking on that responsibility than Knuckles is since his lifestyle is about traveling the globe, and he always manages to run into them even without Knuckles.

That, and the Master Emerald can negate the energies from the Chaos Emeralds, so it's not like they're that much to distress about. Now you can't necessarily say the same for the M.E. since we don't know everything it is fully capable of. But negating the Chaos Emeralds is way up there as it's most powerful abilities.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I never really got this idea.

You mean you don't understand it, or you've never seen it happen?

A character's abilities can help make them distinct but it's ultimatly a character's personality and how it influences their actions that is going to make them an individual.

But there can be two different characters with the same personality. If you rely only on personality to make a character stand out, and there's another character with the same personality, there's not going to be much that makes them an individual and more of what we've come to know of as a "clone."

That's where their other traits come in to keep the character from being a clone. Let's take Blaze, whom some refer to as a mix of Shadow and Knuckles. We know she shares similar traits with the two characters, but what sets her apart? Her occupation as a princess is different from that of a guardian or a military personnel, then there's her origin from another dimension, and then we have her abilities. There's more to a character than just personality and abilities.

But does Knuckles sound like the guy to let someone else handle his own responsibility, I think leaving the Master Emerald alone just for a few days to ensure the safety of the Chaos Emeralds seems legitimate to me.

Yes he does if its a minor responsibility, but considering that he isn't doing his own responsibility very well and without any consideration, that's kinda moot point.

That and the Emeralds haven't really been his responsibility, or if they were, they're not anymore. They tend to be the responsibility of whoever gets possession of them, which can be just about any other character.

Its like you said if Eggman is planning something big with the emeralds then everyone can get involved even Knuckles.

Not quite. I said that if Eggman becomes a threat that affects everyone to the point that guarding the Master Emerald wouldn't make a difference is when everyone can get involved, such as brainwashing an entire galaxy in Colors or cracking the world into several peices in Unleashed.

If Eggman is planning something big with the Emeralds, but it isn't anything too catastrophic, it doesn't require the whole cast to stop and could very well be handled without characters like Knuckles or Shadow.

I see them as a balance to each other, the Chaos Emeralds are used to stop the M.E. from going out of control and vice versa.

The Chaos Emeralds cannot, nor do they have that kind of power, because that would make them way too powerful for the Master Emerald to stop.

The Master Emerald is powerful to the point that it seems to have a mind of its very own, especially when you see how Knuckles speaks to it as if it was a person that it is a thing. And being as that is, the Master Emerald is not likely to go out of control probably because it isn't capable of going out of control from what we've seen.

And we can do better than Tails just going along with Sonic, just because he's Sonic sidekick.

Tails has already done more than just being a sidekick. He's a capable engineer, pilot, and somewhat of a decent researcher.

I'm saying just because she likes Sonic, and wants to be around him. Doesn't mean she doesn't wanna beat Eggman too, who's to say she doesn't try to go at it herself before meeting sonic.

She doesn't because the only thing that is of any concern to her is meeting Sonic, and she couldn't care less about Eggman unless Eggman ends up involving her himself, i.e. as a hostage. Even in Heroes when she shed this fangirlishness only slightly while helping Big and Cream, her whole goal throughout that part of the story was to find Sonic.

The only exception would be SA1, but her goal wasn't to find Eggman and beat him just to meet Sonic. For the most part, she was avoiding Zero while helping a bird that came into her care. SA2 comes close, especially when she isn't that much of a focal character while still playing a big role. After than, it's mostly been Sonic, Sonic, Sonic to her.

But it hasn't been overused so it could happen, Shadow joining G.U.N. is a recent thing.

That's just a risk I want to lay out there.

Edited October 16, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Kuzu]

HEY GUIZ, REMEMBER THIS TOPIC? Well I've been thinking so how about we move on to that little ball of cute Fuzz Tails shall we.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

HEY GUIZ, REMEMBER THIS TOPIC? Well I've been thinking so how about we move on to that little ball of cute Fuzz Tails shall we.

This topic is still going strong?

Oh well, might as well change the topic. But it's not going to be just about Tails.

Now I don't know what possessed you to bump the topic, but if it is to continue I want to bring attention to something not many would even consider.

This time, we're going to compare Tails and Knuckles against each other.

So, you've heard me talk so much about Knuckles, and you've heard me talk about mixing the characters - or at least you should. Then there's Tails, the one character who is really in a category of his own if you ask me since I don't judge a character's value based on what they are (you know, a Classic or Modern character) and instead judge them for what they bring to the table and how they can bring it.

Tails' capability as an engineer and overall techie gives him too much potential for a single character, and I'd say Tails has more potential than Sonic himself. There is so much you can give him that is based on, or associated with, technology that as long as you guide him along the route without throwing too much on him than it should be believed for him to handle, there's not a lot he can't do. When looking at Tails, omniscience can lead to omnipotence, but growing his character too quickly could be a problem if you don't take things on a smoother level. But with that potential he has, I could picture Tails creating his own squadron of robots to assist him and Sonic throughout their adventures, creating a massive airship, becoming at engineering director, a military official, and so on. Of course, most, if not all of that would fall within the realm of fanfiction to you guys and none of you could ever see it or you could even be against it, and I don't blame you. But still, I think it's fun to imagine the possibilities and have an insight to where Tails could grow. As long as it benefits the character and makes him likable. But moving on...

Next there's Knuckles. You already know my beef with how he's being handled, so there's no need to go down memory lane for the millionth time. Knuckles has that potential that could say is chained in a chest. You could do so much with him, yet he's tied down and can currently do so little. But it's far from impossible to free him from the shackles, and I've created three different keys to unlock him from his bounds that I've mentioned in other topics. If you want to hear them, you could ask me. That said, there's a lot to consider about how to guide him. Although he is the guardian, if we allow him to be free after giving him the key, we would need to consider where to take him. And that would be the problem. Sonic is already the free spirited hero who is able to find and defeat trouble whenever it happens, Tails is his sidekick who can very well grow to various other occupations, Shadow, Omega, and Rouge are both G.U.N. military personnel, Blaze is a guardian and a princess in her dimension, Silver is a telekinetic hero in the future, and Eggman is a worldwide threat with unlimited resource to fund an empire. Many of these characters have an occupation that is either endless in its own right, or can lead into another occupation altogether, and yes some are very shallow. But unless you're okay with making Knuckles a leader of his own island of echidnas (which I don't know how you would view that), or a leader of the G.U.N. personnel protecting his island (which would still likely draw some concern), it would take some serious brainstorming to find another occupation for him.

So we have two characters, both have been around for a long time, but one is a free bird while the other has it's potential locked in a cage. So what are your thoughts of the two?

Edited December 29, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic