The tone of Sonic Colours and the future of Sonic Team

[Hero of Legend]

I just realized, since the game's being written in NA, won't that mean that the voices will be written around it? I mean, one of the biggest difficulties with dubbing voices is lip-syncing, and BK in my opinion had the best voice-work post 4Kids, and there was no lip-syncing required.

What they NEED...

Is Susan Blu (Beast Wars and Beast Machines, Land Before Time sequels, TMNT 4Kids ironically) to do the voice direction, damn it she is unbelievable!

[DistantJ]

The future of Sonic Team eh? Well, judging from this and Sonic 2, Iizuka definitely knows what he's doing, and I'm glad he's been put in charge of Sonic. All I keep thinking is, while I'm excited for Sonic Colours and Sonic 4, if these are anything to go by, just think how awesome the inevitable HD Hedgehog Engine game they're obviously working on behind the scenes will be next year

[lounge]

To put it simply, the tone puts me off completely. Sonic Heroes had a cooler tone than this. Just watch the trailer for Heroes. Yeah it doesn't make sense that they're running around in Green Hill Zone, but there was attitude in the choreography, speed and expressions.

Colors has crossed the border of light hearted. There's no medium anymore in these games.

[speedfreak]

I wonder if we'll get an epic Sonic Unleashed style opening. I really hope the tone isn't as kiddy as Sonic Heroes.

[Ferno]

I wouldn't say Shadow's completely devoid of humor...In Heroes, he taunts Sonic while smiling(It'll be a date to DIE for!), and still wears his cocky grin as Sonic becomes angry. He just needs to be written that way more often.

But in that scene he had amnesia, and wasn't himself...Just saying. ._.

[The-Master-Board]

I can't agree. They worked quitr well. At least, Sa and Sa2.

I LOVED serious storylines. I don't mind light-hearted stories as long as there are some games with serious storylines like in Sa/Sa2/S06.

Seconded- o wait.

Seconded. If Colours marks a return to saccharine Heroes-ville, I won't be best pleased.

I think the problem they had with Shadow and '06 is that they tried to be OMG DARK all the time. I don't remember Sonic (or anyone else) cracking a single joke in either of those two stories.

Balance is key. In the original Genesis games you started off saccharine sweet, with bunnies and flowers and green hills, but as you went on through the game you eventually descend into mechanical hell a'la Scrap Brain Zone. Here it was often the gameplay providing the dark drama (given that they didn't really have story), as you jab the control pad in increasing terror, desperate to keep your few remaining lives and avoid the actual threat of a GAME OVER if you take the platforming insufficiently seriously.

So light-hearted start, srs business end is my soapbox ramble of what the story tone needs to be. This is kinda what happened in SatBK (with Ye Olde England environments literally twisting into magical evil-scapes after Avalon), and that worked OK.

Thirded!

I enjoy my light-hearted Sonic romps, but I also enjoy my drama. If Sonic becomes permanently lame sugar-coated sweetness post Sonic Colours then colour me a disapproving diabetic.

Now I might be one of the only people that actually liked some aspects of Sonic '06 and even Shadow the hedgehog, I know they aren't perfect and I know deep storylines and angst isn't the usual way of Sonic, but I thought it worked on some level. Whilst you are always shown Sonic's happy go lucky point of view it was nice to see things from a darker side of things in Shadow; a charcter with a not so nice beginnings and not so positive.

What I am trying to say is making a believable and fleshed out continuity for a series involves alot of story, and a world where everything is always bright and happy and saccharine doesn't make the fictional world seem as diverse. To put it simply - you have to have evil to have good.

I think the writing of Unleashed and Black Knight is a clear indication they'll never do something as downright idiotic as Heroes' OR 2006's tones ever again. I am not concerned at all quite frankly.

Though I do think you can tell a good story without sacrificing a whimsical tone. See: absoloutely any Pixar film, but The Incredibles and Up in particular.

Explain to me what was idiotic about Heroes? And also why are you lumping Heroes and '06 in the same boat? They were pretty much opposties in that Sonic Heroes was bright, cheerful, light-hearted, and story light (for a 3D Sonic title) - however '06 was fairly dark, deep, and story heavy. If you are saying these are both bad for the same reasons then I don't understand? However if you mean these are examples of either ends of bad then that makes sense.

I do disagree though.

Sonic Heroes is the benchmark of all 3D Sonic games to me. It had story, it had fun and light heartedness and it had a little drama. To me this is the level of seriousness the series should be aiming for, but I don't mind the occassional Shth of '06.

Unleashed was downright idiotic to me.

The level of cringeworthy material in that had my eyebrows in slings and bandages. Chip was annoying as hell and the "humor" was lame all around. I don't mind humor in Sonic games, in fact as long as it's done right it should be a staple, but Unleashed's was just bad.

The humor centered around Chip's obsession with food, which is bearable once, but after it just keeps going and going and going it grates on your nerves, and then there was some light slapstick humor which as far as humor goes is pretty lowbrow.

I'd probably have appreciated it more if it hadn't been Pickle & Chip, the most charmless, dustbin-worthy characters ever to marr a main series Sonic game with their tedious prattle.

Agreed, to a degree. I would've still hated Unleashed for it's realistic world setting, but a great deal of my hate to this game comes from the inclusion of Chip and Pickle, otherwise known to me as: the roles Tails could've filled.

It really makes me angry the way Tails was shunned in this game. Chip becomes this 'best buddy' chummy friends with Sonic and Tails is delegated to the role of chauffeur, and at the end of the game after Sonic has this big dramatic goodbye scene with Chip he basically ignores Tails and runs off with him chasing after in the tornado behind. Kinda made me feel sad.

Tails is Sonic's sidekick, you can't replace him with some (as Frozen Nitrogen so aptly put it) dustbin-worthy character. The "humor" Chip brings doesn't even add to the game it is poor humor. Had Tails been in this game you could've got some good "odd couple" humor by playing on their differences. Example: ~ Tails has some long speech about where they need to go next in which Sonic is clearly impatient to get going there, as soon as Tails mentions the place (lets say Greenhill zone) Sonic takes off leaving Tails on screen with a little bemused look on his face until Sonic zips back onscreen stating "greenhill zone is this way" and heads off in the other direction Tails knew was right all along.

You play on their differences, Sonic's impatience against Tails' intelligence.....you don't need some slapstick annoying flying dog eating everything for laughs.

Then there's Prof Pickle, what exactly was his deal? He was basically the brains of the game all but taking away the other aspect Tails could've been in this game!

And I won't even mention the craphog idea which steals Knuckles potential in this game. Man I hate Unleashed.

I have to agree... especially as far as Chip was concerned. He spent the majority of the game as a cheap sidekick-of-the-day and grated on my nerves horribly with his supposedly humorous 'antics'. The twist at the end of him being Light Gaia was interesting, or at least would have been if I had any interest in him as a character XD Time that I personally felt could have been MUCH better spent on building up any one of the existing characters.

Unleashed had some good ideas in principle, but they were poorly executed (and of course it had some TERRIBLE ideas too). Certainly not the worst Sonic game ever, but it really kinda failed at what it was trying to do. I wouldn't say that it's an example to learn from in a positive way.

Agreed....again, although I am alot less positive! I don't believe Unleashed had ANY good points and definitely don't see why people claim this to be where the Sonic series should aim for in level of seriousness.

Despite how much I hate SatBK, I think the one thing they got right was the dynamic between Sonic and the sword, there was a good bit of back-and-forth with them. Unleashed....well I can see it appealing to an eight year old, but as far as good humor goes it is pretty thread bare. I enjoyed Sonic Heroes, it was a bit cheesy but I still think it was good, I also enjoyed the more dramatic stories such as '06.

I think tone of the games is the wrong idea to use. It should be tone for individual games.

I'm pretty certain I won't like Sonic Colours, the tone may be part of the reason not all of it, but I just don't think an entire Sonic game, let alone the whole series should be set all in one tone.

But if they have to aim for monotony then I suggest Sonic Heroes, part light, funny, and playful, and part story and drama - a good balance.

[Dr. Crusher]

I thought Unleashed wasn't bad at all actually. That may have to do with the NPCs being more unique than they normally are. Although yes, Chip could get annoying at some parts, and I would have just preferred Tails instead.

I don't really believe the whole of the game is going to be SAWNIK HEROOOOES childish, we don't know what things are going to happen near the end. I can understand why the idea of a THEME PARK IN SPAAAACE would throw people off, but I welcome it - just because we have more unlimited and free fantasy settings and worlds with giant lollipops doesn't mean it'll only appeal to two year olds. Sonic Advance 3 had a zone based on toys, and it still served as a weird expy of the Gizoid plot.

Just get an Adventure series-esque balance in tone, and you're done. This game really doesn't seem any more kiddy than Heroes' hold-hands shenanigans.

Besides, regardless of how dark/light/balanced it is, it'll end up better than Sonic 2006 anyway.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Dr. Crusher

[Ebby]

I don't mind humor in Sonic games, in fact as long as it's done right it should be a staple, but Unleashed's was just bad.

The humor centered around Chip's obsession with food, which is bearable once, but after it just keeps going and going and going it grates on your nerves...

Want some chocolate?! *shot*

[The-Master-Board]

Want some chocolate?! *shot*

If it's Mello from Death Note offering me some chocolate I will accept it!

If it's Chip then I'd swat him away with a tennis raquet!

[Speederino]

Nevermind the storylines, I'm just glad that they seem to be legitimately trying to make these games great again. No more forced gimmicks, no more rushed development cycles, no more bad voice actors, and they've even hired the Madworld writers. (I never played Madworld, but they can't be any worse then the clowns who wrote Sonic 2006)

And I much prefer a lighthearted tone. It's more suitable for the franchise to take place in bright, colorful places with upbeat music then a destroyed city full of warring soldiers and aliens with hard rock blaring in the background. Just so long as we never go back to Heroes' tone. Please, never again Sega.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Speederino

[DistantJ]

Nevermind the storylines, I'm just glad that they seem to be legitimately trying to make these games great again. No more forced gimmicks, no more rushed development cycles, no more bad voice actors, and they've even hired the Madworld writers. (I never played Madworld, but they can't be any worse then the clowns who wrote Sonic 2006)

And I much prefer a lighthearted tone. It's more suitable for the franchise to take place in bright, colorful places with upbeat music then a destroyed city full of warring soldiers and aliens with hard rock blaring in the background. Just so long as we never go back to Heroes' tone. Please, never again Sega.

This. Exactly this.

[Dark Qiviut]

The tone should not matter as much as the QUALITY of the storytelling. Heroes, Shadow, and Next-Gen's stories would've fared much better if they were actually well-written, had a good amount of sense, and blended from point A to point Z nicely. But what brought most of the stories post-2001 back totally was the poor writing.

Sonic Heroes's storyline was very light with one or two exceptions of "drama." However, the problem here was the storytelling. It felt incredibly out of place, and the characters' lines felt completely forced. I only came across one section in Heroes where I laughed for the RIGHT reasons and not because the characters were grossly OOC. The writing was so corny and felt like an afterthought.

Shadow the Hedgehog was somewhat similar. The cursing felt like they were slapped into the game and not out of genuine characterization. "Where's that DAMN fourth Chaos Emerald?" is a clear giveaway that the swearing just doesn't fit in this game. Not Shadow, Knuckles, the General, Espio, or SONIC. There were only a couple of parts that really did well: the flashback with Maria and its subsequent stage of "The Ark" and the ending with the president and General talking to each other and honoring Gerald Robotnik. I personally thought the separation of storylines was very cool and brought very unique "What-Ifs" into Shadow as a character. Overall, Shadow's writing was marginal, but nowhere near as bad as Heroes's.

Next Gen, if you ask me, wasn't that terrible in characterization. But the problem here was that there was TOO MUCH drama and felt like a giant soap opera. There was almost no humor to balance the storyline, and the story's organization sucked. Yes, I love the story, but in terms of quality, it was a mess. NG's storytelling was abysmal! Sonic Team tried to incorporate way too many major plotlines into one, creating confusion and plot holes. Blaze's "death" is a key example here and all the Chaos Emeralds being juggled from one time zone to another is a second example. Or what about Elise blowing out Solaris, erasing the memories of the game? This part is what really irked me the most. Instead of trying to solve the plotline issues, Sonic Team slapped this lame "erasing" excuse to solve everything. This was another big problem in NG's story. When the storyline came to a standstill, Sonic Team gave the impression of taking an easy and cheap way out. Like the scene where Eggman and Elise crashed. Sonic, Silver, and Blaze mourned, and then they came up with this idea to go back in time to go back in time and rescue Elise before she was killed. Yes, this was foreshadowed earlier, but it felt sudden, silly, and not at all preplanned.

I can't fully comment on the stories in the Rivals series, Riders series, and Chronicles because I'm not that familiar with them, but I can with Unleashed and Black Knight's.

Unleashed's story, while lighthearted, was much more well-written. There was well-placed humor, good characterization, and great development. Instead of taking too many ideas at once, they took only a couple of small ones and one big one. This made the story much easier to follow. But what made the humor very good here compared to Heroes's was that it was SMART. The humor was INTELLIGENT. Heroes's humor felt out of place and incredibly corny, but Unleashed's had wit and it flowed naturally. Sonic Team's writers paid close attention to the characters and made sure the humor made sense with the characters and their connections, like Sonic and Chip's, Pickle, the obvious parodies of Amy hugging "Sonic" by hugging the Werehog, and the snarky talk between Ergo and Eggman. The quips from Chip were good because it made sense as a character, and also how he was written for the first half of the game. In the first half of Unleashed, Chip represented a curious child with an eye for food, a wonder of adventure, and a yearn for meeting others. Who couldn't LAUGH when you read this comment from Chip:

Sonic...you're not...naked...are you?

He was well-rounded and felt like a CHARACTER! (And, no, his humor was NOT about food. It was about his childlike personality and his "innocent" remarks to make an acquaintance, converse with others, and solve solutions. If it were about food, then he'd be food-obsessed throughout Unleashed, and it was quite clear that he wasn't near that, especially in the second half where he matured much more.)

And as a Tails fan, Chip is a GREAT character and one I'll vastly defend because of how GOOD and BADASS he was and how he's NOT a dustbin-worthy character one damn bit. As a Tails fan, I would've been even MORE pissed off if Tails replaced Chip's role and find it absolutely ridiculous to hear how Chip should've been replaced by Tails! Why? Because he doesn't fit as a character! Chip's — first AND second half — and Tails's characterizations are completely different. I can't recognize Tails as a character at all if he were in Chip's place or vice-versa. The same with Professor Pickle, Ergo, and even the WEREHOG. Knuckles wouldn't fit the Werehog at all, and nor would Tails fit in Pickle's role character-wise. Even Amy had a role, and she was the closest to being a "fanservice" character here. Each "character" has a specific role that, unlike Shadow and Next Gen, weren't shoe-horned; replace one with another, and they would be very out of character. There was a bit in Unleashed's story that could've been explored more, but the storywriting was much better compared to some a while back, and it was a great improvement to see a good Sonic story. It's not Shakespeare, but it was solid. And, no, the humor wasn't "embarrassing," "stupid," nor "idiotic." It was very good, intelligent, witty; and utilized the characters, their personalities, and circumstances.

Black Knight's story, if you ask me, is one of the best-written in all the 3D Sonic games. A lot of humor, great storytelling and storytelling, and an unexpected plot twist that actually made SENSE. This storytelling did best in balance: humor, drama, parody, and angst, and it flowed. The humor relied on characterization and quips between the characters that made sense and felt like THEM. Of course, we see the other Sonic characters, but they all fit their roles and, as it was a storybook game, did not have to be them exactly. But their roles somewhat fit into their background, and they each had a purpose, from Amy/Lady of the Lake to the Knights of the Round Table to the new additions like Caliburn and Merlina/

Dark Queen.

The foreshadowing was small, but it made eventual sense and provided a purpose to drive Sonic as a character; he received great character development here, moreso than Unleashed.

I would mention Adventure and Adventure 2's stories, but I'll hold off now. As said before, I don't care about the tone of Colors as much as I care about good quality storytelling to help bridge it and not feel so jarring. Adventure, Adventure 2, Unleashed, and Black Knight had very good storytelling, and I hope to see that trend continue in Colors.

Edited July 16, 2010 by Dark Qiviut

[ArtFenix]

If it's Mello from Death Note offering me some chocolate I will accept it!

If it's Chip then I'd swat him away with a tennis raquet!

Like that? xD I made these pics some months ago)))

BTW, i agree with your words about unleashed and it's "humor" and stuff.

[Nomad_350]

Nevermind the storylines, I'm just glad that they seem to be legitimately trying to make these games great again. No more forced gimmicks, no more rushed development cycles, no more bad voice actors, and they've even hired the Madworld writers. (I never played Madworld, but they can't be any worse then the clowns who wrote Sonic 2006)

And I much prefer a lighthearted tone. It's more suitable for the franchise to take place in bright, colorful places with upbeat music then a destroyed city full of warring soldiers and aliens with hard rock blaring in the background. Just so long as we never go back to Heroes' tone. Please, never again Sega.

Pretty much this. I've been thinking since Unleashed that they're starting to head in a better direction in the series, and wouldn't ya know it...

Granted, I still have my grievances with the gameplay of Colors (and hell, Sonic 4 while we're at it). I think we all do. That's never going to change, no matter how much better it gets. But nobody can deny that Sonic Team, or at least SOMEONE at Sega woke up one day and realized:

"Hmm..yeah sure Sonic sells but, you know what, I think this series...isn't as good as it used to be. We should probably work on that."

Me? I have high hopes now, and I think things are looking up. No matter what your stance is on the niddy griddy of said games, ya gotta admit, they are putting a lot more effort into their projects. This can only mean better games for us, in the long run.

I think we can all breathe a little easier, if nothing else.

[The-Master-Board]

Like that? xD I made these pics some months ago)))

BTW, i agree with your words about unleashed and it's "humor" and stuff.

Cool!

I love Mello, despite the unusual amount of hate he gets for some reason?

I wanna cosplay him as I always cosplay L.

Nice pictures btw.

Yeah Unleashed was just poor in my opinion. Sure Sonic Heroes was cheesy, but it had some good humor and some of the other Sonic games have had their humorous moments too, but Unleashed used Chip like some cheap trick of food humor and slapstick - and with how annoying that character was already, shoving him in our faces more didn't make it any better.