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An odd thought about Badniks and their brains


Blazey Firekitty

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Okay, so, I grew up on the Western concept of Sonic. I always thought of the Badniks as animals who had been turned into cyborgs. Yeah, the manual said "robots", but I always figured they were just being really general, going by the mentality of "it's mostly mechanical, so it's a robot, in a way, even if it has a chewy center."

Now that the Japanese storyline has been internationalized for years, the games appear to state that animals inside the Badniks were never the mind of the body, and that the mechanical shell ran on a separate program.

My question is, which do you personally feel is preferable...Badniks as "cyber-converted" animals trapped in mechanical shells, and brainwashed to attack Sonic, or completely separate entities from the fleshy fauna within them?

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My question is, which do you personally feel is preferable...Badniks as "cyber-converted" animals trapped in mechanical shells, and brainwashed to attack Sonic, or completely separate entities from the fleshy fauna within them?

The latter. Probably because I was a big Fleetway fan, and they were quite explicit in portraying the animals as 'organic batteries', just crammed inside the 'bots to use as power sources (somehow).

Now older and wiser and realising this doesn't really make any sense, I've got a couple of fanon rationales/tweaks to the basic concept that I use in fanfics.

Firstly, the creatures don't power the badniks in an 'electrical' sense. Rather, in a kind of hybridisation of the 'brainwashing' motif, badniks use the animal's brains for their computing power. Creatures inside badniks are semi-conscious (so they're not brainwashed), but while the animal isn't using all it's own grey matter, the badnik runs its own processes in the animal's brain with cybernetics. THAT's why using animals in badniks is good; they give you instant access to neuronal computing power which modern supercomputers are only now approaching, and they do so on the cheap!

Second, Robotnik doesn't really need to use animals in badniks - and, indeed, he often doesn't, in Heroes onwards. The main reason he puts Mobians in badniks is because he really fucking hates Mobians. Turning the cute fluffy critters into implacable robot servants is his goal, not just the means to an end.

Edited by Frozen Nitrogen
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It's probably mind control, but I think the more creepy seperate entity idea is cooler. Stuck in their mechanical shells, slowly being drained of energy by the minute, watching themselves attack Sonic, and despite crying and wailing to stop... it doesn't. The machine just keeps attacking, and won't stop until Sonic's dead. And the cute widdle animal will have to see this, and assume that it's their fault that their hero is gone.

I actually think the games' method of placing the creatures inside the robots is more sinister than roboticizing. Yes, getting your flesh replaced with metal is painful. But not as painful as having your entire body be used as a battery.

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Firstly, the creatures don't power the badniks in an 'electrical' sense. Rather, in a kind of hybridisation of the 'brainwashing' motif, badniks use the animal's brains for their computing power. Creatures inside badniks are semi-conscious (so they're not brainwashed), but while the animal isn't using all it's own grey matter, the badnik runs its own processes in the animal's brain with cybernetics. THAT's why using animals in badniks is good; they give you instant access to neuronal computing power which modern supercomputers are only now approaching, and they do so on the cheap!
This is pretty much what I go with. It's about the only way I can see the whole "stuffing animals into robots" thing making any sense.

I think having the animal separate from the badnik makes more sense for the mass-produced and easily defeated robot armies. More logical for Sonic to be able to just bop 'em and keep running that way. That said, having them intertwined (physically, mentally, or both) makes for more dramatic situations. I think the two could work well in tandem; make Western style roboticization much more costly and thus suited for specific targets, and use the Japanese bird-in-a-'bot style for the generic goons.

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E-102 Gamma

How is no one mentioning him? He is the closest we'll probably ever get to understanding how a Badnik feels and it's suggested that Gamma has a robot AI half of him and a Bird half. Gamma clearly has a programmed conscious but through the adventure his consciousness and memories of a bird surface and cross into Gamma where he actually remembers when he was a bird and his family. Canonly that's what they are, their robots and have their own AI, but the animals inside is linked to their consciousness somehow. So it's kinda a mix, the robot has a separate mind but the robotical shell is holding two minds in it and while the robot mind is usually the first and foremost, there is situations where the animals thoughts, memories, and other traits move into the robot, why Gamma started growing feelings and slowly remembering himself as a bird and went on a quest to kill his brothers but in essence by killing them, freeing them at the same time. Gamma's story is full of lots of symbolism actually if you think about it.

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I've always likened them to the Borg, being the sad and pathetic Trekkie I am. Feel free to point and laugh. :D

But seriously, the brainwashing -v- battery argument is certainly interesting. Both have evidence and both are creepy. I think I prefer the brainwashing argument, though, if only for the fact that it would make Sonic even more of a hero. Because if an animal is used as a tool of destruction and then Sonic comes along and saves them, yay Sonic... whereas just trapped inside, unknowingly, is a little bit less tragic/heroic. If you see what I mean? No?

Okay then, just me. :lol:

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E-102 Gamma

Good point well made. I suppose you could tie that into the running-AI-processes-in-an-animal's-brain shtick; sometimes, thoughts cross back.

Although I don't think Gamma was quite so clear-cut. It's hard to tell for sure, but he seems to be having misgivings even before he gets confronted by Amy and Birdie in the cell. He certainly doesn't react with the generic anti-organic bastardry you'd expect from an Eggman robot when he's teleported to Tikal and the dancing chao at the Shrine (and Tikal even stands in his way at first, obviously suspecting Gamma of wanting to shoot up the place). Then there's the glance he and Delta exchange as Robotnik sends the other E-series away in contempt post-Froggy, and obviously the horror-trip just before the cells when Gamma finds Beta being dismembeed.

I'm inclined to think Gamma's betrayal was a consequence both of 'mental backwash' from his Flicky AND the growing sense of comprehension in his mechanical AI that Robotnik is a cruel, insane sociopath.

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I suppose it could be argued that Gamma is the primary source of confusion regarding the nature of animal powered Badniks in the game. He is the best source of insight into their minds, yet his characterization was ultimately ambiguous, and, as the only look we've ever gotten in the game canon into the minds of these beings, his portrayal has left many things up for interpretation.

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Good point well made. I suppose you could tie that into the running-AI-processes-in-an-animal's-brain shtick; sometimes, thoughts cross back.

I especially like the "backwash" interpretation for one completely selfish reason: Gamma's Flicky shows up along with the rest of the cast in the last scenes of Sonic Adventure, and it would make the whole scene a little more powerful if that actually sort of was Gamma and not just the bird he happened to be powered by. I also like the way it reflects on Omega: His sociopathy isn't necessarily just the result of his programming going awry, it's also possibly because he's powered by the Charles Manson of Flickies.

Edited by Octarine
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Didn't you know? :o

All the badniks are powered by the negative energy of Sonic fans!!! :o :o :o

That's right kids! Everytime you hate a Sonic game, another badnik is born. ;)

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Then why were there so many badniks in the Genesis games, some badniks in the Adventures, and none for quite a while after that?

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Then why were there so many badniks in the Genesis games, some badniks in the Adventures, and none for quite a while after that?

I guess it depends on whether or not we're classifying EGG Pawns and other post E-series humanoid robots as Badniks. ;)

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I always thought of the animals being trapped inside a crunchy, robotic shell. I mean, they kinda just hop away after being freed. If they were brainwashed by Robotnik, they might try to attack Sonic or some crazy stuff. Unless of course they are un-brainwashed after they are freed. But I'll stop myself now before thinking way too far into this.

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Both methods have the same amount of nightmare fuel being trapped, fully conscious throughout the whole thing and unable to do anything. But I've always thought of the little animals as organic batteries, especially since in SA2 destroying GUN robots and Gerald's experiments give you Chao Drives but destroying Eggman's robots gives you animals, implying Eggman uses animals instead of Chao Drives to power his robots.

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Firstly, the creatures don't power the badniks in an 'electrical' sense. Rather, in a kind of hybridisation of the 'brainwashing' motif, badniks use the animal's brains for their computing power. Creatures inside badniks are semi-conscious (so they're not brainwashed), but while the animal isn't using all it's own grey matter, the badnik runs its own processes in the animal's brain with cybernetics. THAT's why using animals in badniks is good; they give you instant access to neuronal computing power which modern supercomputers are only now approaching, and they do so on the cheap!

So the little woodland creatures had enough brain capacity and intelligence to pull that off? Or did this just not matter because the brain was basically just a tool box the badnik would use?

Edited by Dejablue
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I have to ask, though, where does that number come from? Not that I don't trust Retro, but they don't give a source.

Your skepticism is well-placed. I can't count the number of times I've asked them to implement a Wikia-style reference citation system (actually, I can. It's four).

Anyway, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY it's from the Prima official strategy guide for Heroes.

So the little woodland creatures had enough brain capacity and intelligence to pull that off? Or did this just not matter because the brain was basically just a tool box the badnik would use?

Sort of. Like I said, the human brain has processing power BETTER than the best modern-day room-filling parallel supercomputers. Animal brains aren't that far behind us, so the badniks use the animal's brain like us sitting down at a desktop terminal.

...and then eating the terminal, I guess.

Edited by Frozen Nitrogen
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Your skepticism is well-placed. I can't count the number of times I've asked them to implement a Wikia-style reference citation system (actually, I can. It's four).

Anyway, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY it's from the Prima official strategy guide for Heroes.

Let me take a look, I bought the guide since it had some nice art and info. However, unless it's labeled in the stage section, I don't see the Egg Pawns listed as being E-0001, it could be mentioned in one of the stage guides, but not mentioned in the enemy guide (given regular Egg Pawns are not mentioned in the section, Egg Bunnies are though-shot-) but I also recall seeing this somewhere, just can't remember. Retro having sources on stuff like this would be helpful, I recall this but don't remember where.

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TBH, I don't think of E series bots as being Badniks. Don't look like animals, don't have anything inside of them.

All of the robots in Sonic Adventure were part of the E-Series and they all had animals in them. I got this from Retro, so it may be wrong, though. But, Gamma, Beta, Alpha etc were E-Series and they had animals in them...

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All of the robots in Sonic Adventure were part of the E-Series and they all had animals in them. I got this from Retro, so it may be wrong, though. But, Gamma, Beta, Alpha etc were E-Series and they had animals in them...

Yeah, the E-series / badnik distinction is all very HAZY. I know this acutely because I wrote most of those Retro articles you'll have been looking at, Marcello. ;)

Sonic 1 / 2 / 3 style robots we all KNOW are badniks. I think these are clear-cut because:

* The robots THEMSELVES usually look a bit like animals

* They have animals inside them

It gets hazy when we have 'bots that lie outside this particular Venn Diagram. For example, the robots in the 8-bit games were blatantly copies of the ones from the 16-bit games, but when you popped them there was NOTHING inside. Likewise, Chaotix robots had rinds inside rather than animals.

Alternatively, you had Beta / Gamma / Delta / Epsilon / Zeta, who few people think of as badniks, presumably because they were more humanoid and intelligent in their own right.

Edited by Frozen Nitrogen
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I found something from the old Sonic manga that has to do with the Japanese version of the badniks:

2010-07-09.jpg

Quite a creepy concept, actually......

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