Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Big Panda]

Not to be a mini-mod or anything but why are you still discussing it here?

[NicoGuardian]

13 minutes ago, Ernest-Panda said:

Not to be a mini-mod or anything but why are you still discussing it here?

Really sorry. I'll just post my response on the other topic ^^" 

[Borvoc]

Sorry everyone. I feel as though I was not adequately notified that the discussion regarding the delays had been moved, and everyone since then has been implying that fact instead of outright and clearly stating it. I'll refrain from further discussing the delays here.

Edit: I probably just didn't understand the staff note quote. I've never seen a link from one thread to another before and thought it was just a weird quote, so I skimmed past it. Anyway, whatever. Back to non-delay discussion.

[Big Panda]

I've been meaning to say: does anyone else think Mirage Saloon would be a great location for a post-SGW equivalent to the Sandblasters to hang out?

[Your Vest Friend]

5 minutes ago, Ernest-Panda said:

I've been meaning to say: does anyone else think Mirage Saloon would be a great location for a post-SGW equivalent to the Sandblasters to hang out?

Nah, they don't seem the "Ol' Western Front" type. If anything, Oil Desert would be perfect (and would have been perfect pre-reboot as well...but it didn't exist when Thicker Than Water came out, so they had Oil Ocean instead). 

[Your Vest Friend]

Double post, but can I just say how Sonic Forces basically gives two middle fingers to fitting in with the Archie continuity? It may have general idea of "Eggman conquers, heroes remain to stop them", but for fitting in it's really bad.

[Borvoc]

@VEDJ-F In my opinion, Sonic Forces thumbs it nose at the very idea of plot or characterization, based on all the trailers so far. I think an Archie adaptation would have a whole lot of sprucing up to do all around.

[Big Panda]

Wait, what do you mean? Forces plot can easily be adapted for Archie if all the preporations are made.

[HywelAtTheMoon]

Exactly. If they wanted a good adaptation to end the comic on (which I hope doesn't happen for a while), this would be a great, high stakes story to wrap everything up. 

[Forte-Metallix]

I like to imagine Forces will happen after Chronicles, which is confirmed to take place sometime after the end of the book. (Which hopefully hasn't happened yet) Just say Eggman completely conquered the world while the heroes were away, and he met Infinite.

I just wonder when Forces happened/will happen for Classic Sonic, since we know he experienced Generations right after Sonic 2. (And unlike the games, the comics don't bother with that "two-worlds" malarky.)

[Your Vest Friend]

As a pseudo adaptation maybe. But directly lifted ala Heroes in the comic? You'd have to explain why the FFs and every other team was gone, why Cream (and Big) is out of the resistance efforts, why the Egg Army has just not shown up, why GUN wouldn't keep tabs on this (whether Shadow is genuinely, brainwashed, or this is a different Shadow from another time/dimension), and maybe even why Eggman didn't have the clout to take over the world on his own since in the game he required help to do so (as said in the very recent Famitsu interview). 

[Borvoc]

I'm just expecting the writing and direction in Forces to be so poor (on par-ish with Colors and Lost World) to where much of it would have to be re-written for an adaptation that doesn't have gameplay to distract from it's many problems.

17 hours ago, Forte-Metallix said:

"two-worlds" malarky

Malarkey is the proper word for Sega's apparent two-worlds paradigm.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

I'm sure Ian could adapt it similarly to Lost World (but maybe a bit shorter), if nothing else.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

If anything, an adaptation of Forces in the comics would be a motherlode of opportunities for Ian...depending on how Forces is, because it can go in many ways that would makes us go "WTF?!" even more like it's done several times now.

I'd say the tone and stakes would allow a brief revisit to the kind of tension of the Pre-Reboot where Eggman controlled most of the world than he does Post-Reboot. And it would definitely make the Egg Bosses shine even more given they would be major figures in such a thing.

If only Infinite wasn't such a wild card right now tho.

[BlueSky]

On ‎14‎.‎6‎.‎2017 at 2:59 PM, NicoGuardian said:

Thanks ^W^ 

You're welcome. Sorry if it seemed a bit frosty, I was trying to be informative, quick and not too mod-like (heaven forbid me doing something like that ever, I don't want to step on toes and/or act of being any better I am  ). It's a tough act of balance. I hope it helped though.

On ‎14‎.‎6‎.‎2017 at 2:02 AM, VEDJ-F said:

They want the situation cleared up, not get a migraine. 

...And after that post I realised my brain chemistry works so differently compared to the others. Sorry, I just recalled it wasn't that far on the past pages when this stuff emerged the time just before this latest one.

_____________________

Somehow, the Avatar's E3 version's description on one of Stadium's articles about the said matter as a character not having any superpowers and relying on tech and such instead does give me a bit same kind of vibes the FF as a concept kind of gives, not so much of the tech part rather than the not-superpowered but still competent enough to do stuff.

And there it kind of leaves at this point.

I feel a bit divided over Forces getting included onto the comics; straight-forward adaptation would leave too many questionmarks I think, as other's have stated already. On the other hand, something akin to what they did with the Unleashed story (at least what they did before WU was well-made I think, they got in hurry after that) would work way better.

...And if someone's not knowing what to read at the moment; read One Piece if crazy doesn't scare you off. It was about as love at the first sight it can get for me...

 

[DabigRG]

On 6/10/2017 at 2:46 AM, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Yeah, that was one group that didn't show up. I wouldn't say they got the shaft tho, despite all that given their reference in Eggman's Dozen.

Well them, maybe the Devils, and the Woodsland Kingsmen. 

[Borvoc]

Here's a thinky thing for anyone interested. I got a PM from a member who will remain unnamed unless or until he (using the generic masculine here) wishes to reveal himself. The PM asked about jumping-on points for the comics. I gave my personalized opinion, but I thought it might possibly make an interesting general topic within this thread if anyone's interested. Where would you recommend a new reader jump into the Sonic comics? If there are multiple entry points you might recommend based on the tastes of the person in question, then what are they? Are there any parts of the comic you would discourage someone reading as an introduction to the books? If so, what are they an why?

[Big Panda]

The two most common jumping-on points people recommend are 160 (Ian's first issue) or 252 (first issue of current continuity).

[Borvoc]

Fair 'nough. Maybe this is a simpler topic than I thought. What do you think of Sonic Genesis as a jumping-on point? Or even Worlds Collide for people who just want the new stuff but also want to know what's up with the Super Genesis Wave stuff at the beginning of #252?

Edit: Also, does anyone have any thoughts on jumping-on points for the pre-Ian (prian? prean?) stuff, or is it basically that if you read the old stuff you might as well start at the beginning? I understand that things get a bit more serious around #21 for people who want to skip the initial jokey phase of the comics.

[Big Panda]

I suppose if you've already been playing the games then Worlds Collide would be a good place too, since the altered reality in the crossover has a setting that a game fan would be more familiar with.

[Tylinos]

12 minutes ago, Borvoc said:

What do you think of Sonic Genesis as a jumping-on point? Or even Worlds Collide for people who just want the new stuff but also want to know what's up with the Super Genesis Wave stuff at the beginning of #252?

Worlds Collide can work too, assuming they have an easy way to read the issues in order. (Since it's a multi-series crossover and all.)  Genesis I'd suggest against, since it might just make things even more confusing for a first-time reader, considering it just adds more non-canon origins for everyone.

Another possible starting point could be Genesis of a Hero 1 to 3 before moving on to Worlds Collide, since even without GoaH 4, it still retells Sonic 1, 2, and CD in the new continuity, and helps briefly introduce the FFs, the King, and Naugus (sort of) ahead of 252 and Countdown to Chaos.

Mega Drive and The Next Level could also work, if the lack of a conclusion doesn't feel like it'd be a problem.

[NikoS]

In my opinion the "Perfect" (and easiest) Jumping-Point is:

Genesis of a Hero 1-3 --> Worlds Collide --> StH 252 --->

it presents some backstory and throw you right into action before going back to a slower pace in 252, and then when it starts developing the story you already have a good baggage of knowledge about the characters and overall setting.

 

But we also have the other jumping-point, which is StH 160, the debut of Ian Flynn and Tracy Yardley! (A.K.A OMG IS THIS THE SAME COMIC AS LAST ISSUE???SRSLY?)

this one i only recomend if the person is willing to go through a lot of material he'll not understand at first, and will need to read some older stuff (or just search on Mobius Encyclopedia) to fully understand what's going on,  But for newcomers i would still recomend "the easiest" jumping-point and after if he is curious about the pre-SGW continuity i'd recomend #160 as a place to start

 

[RobotnikHolmes]

There isn't really any good jumping on point pre-Ian Flynn. Most issues then pale in comparison both story-wise and art-wise, so much so that a transition into the Ian Flynn era from then would be a jarring experience for some.

[Borvoc]

12 hours ago, Tylinos said:

Worlds Collide can work too, assuming they have an easy way to read the issues in order.

This is a good point. The new reader would either have to know the reading order of all the books ahead of time or would need to just buy the tree collected trade paperback volumes or the one Complete Epic trade paperback and then know know what issue to pick up the regular book on again (whatever issue comes right after worlds collide).

12 hours ago, Tylinos said:

Another possible starting point could be Genesis of a Hero 1 to 3 before moving on to Worlds Collide, since even without GoaH 4, it still retells Sonic 1, 2, and CD in the new continuity, and helps briefly introduce the FFs, the King, and Naugus (sort of) ahead of 252 and Countdown to Chaos.

9 hours ago, NikoS said:

In my opinion the "Perfect" (and easiest) Jumping-Point is:

Genesis of a Hero 1-3 --> Worlds Collide --> StH 252 --->

Huh. I hadn't considered starting with Genesis of a hero, since it's the last arc that's been (partially) released at this point, but I see where that would make sense for people who don't want to mess with the previous continuity at all. Not knowing anything about the previous continuity would kind of kill the reader's understanding of what was changed by the Super Genesis Wave and the shock that the characters to through when syncing memories with Nicole soon after #252, but if the reader doesn't really care, then it's not really a loss. It seems that no jumping-on point is completely perfect, though I can see the merits of starting with GoaH.

Anyone have any thoughts on The Battle to Bring Down the Eggman (#198-200), The Iron Dominion (#201-212 + Sonic Universe #13-16), or Rise of King Naugus (#219-#224) as later jumping on points for someone who may want to understand the the setup leading into Fall of The Freedom Fighters (#231-#235) and the subsequent reboot at #252? It seems like The Battle to Bring Down the Eggman in particular might be a good late place to start pre-#252, as a new reader would be starting with a classic Sonic vs. Eggman fight that kind of leads into everything that follows.

Skipping ahead, I feel like I could make an argument for One Step Forward... (#225), Genesis (#226-#229), and ...Two Steps Back (#230) as being necessary reading for anyone who wants to start with the Fall of The Freedom Fighters arc, as it introduces the concept of the Super Genesis Wave (At least I don't think it was previously a thing) as well as the whole

Spoiler

Mecha Sally

thing that rides out the rest of the pre-reboot.

At All Costs: Part 1 (#247) also seems like it could be a last-minute pre-reboot jumping on point as it would start the reader in media res (fancy Latin term for starting in the middle of things; many films, etc., do this for the sake of excitement) and immediately lead him into Worlds Collide. You'd miss out on a lot of the emotional build-up, but you'd get at least some appreciation for what the Super Genesis Wave changed and how it affected the characters.

Anyway, I've been forced to think about this myself recently (as explained previously), so I just thought I'd see what everyone else thinks. I've heard some good ideas from everyone already. Feel free to comment further or critique my own recommendations, as they might not all be good.

[NikoS]

Thinking more about the subject, i can see 198 as a good jumping point, the premise is the most basic one (sonic vs eggman), and it ultimately leads into Worlds Collide, it's the start of it all (Eggman's descent into insanity caused him to theorise (correctly) the "cosmic punch line" that causes him to lose all the time, as explained by Eggman himself, and leaded to the creation of the Genesis Wave, used in Genesis, and after the Super Genesis Wave, which leaded to the new continuity). And on a side note it's not a complicated jumping-point, because everything you need to know, from the iron dominion arc all the way to the mecha Sally arc is explained in the story itself, be it on the main story or on backup stories (or in a sonic universe arc, but this is usually additional reading). I could consider One Step Forward as a Jumping point as well but i think it lacks some explanation on how Eggman got to that point, and you would lose the build up to the reveal of the Death Egg. And i do agree on the At all costs one, it does provide a glimpse on how everything used to be, and if the person gets curious he can go back and start from 198, thus covering everything that leaded to that point.

(New Jumping-points added to the book)