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Archie Sonic Main Discussion - See OP post regarding hiatus

30150 posts in this topic

21 hours ago, BlueSky said:

One can always hit the topic where this discussion is moved into or go skim trough the older posts in this topic. ;)

 

Thanks ^W^ 

 

13 hours ago, Borvoc said:

Hello, @NicoGuardian, and welcome aboard. Welcome aboard the board? I hope we do not make you bored. Okay. I'll stop.

It sounds like you know just about as much as we all do. Some people have made claims about the books being cancelled, and others have theories and speculations like the ones you mention above. Even if the claims were true at one point that the books were being cancelled, that doesn't mean things haven't changed since then, and theories can tend to make people worry more, but I for one do not feel as though I know the final truth on this subject yet.

There is also the added fact that Scott Fulop, one of the books' former writers, was (maybe still is) suing Archie in court after a similar recent lawsuit from Ken Penders, another former writer on the books, but opinions are divided on whether or not that has anything to do with the delay. I'd throw it into your stew of possibilities nonetheless.

All I know for certain is that Archie says they're discussing things with Sega.

All that being said, please don't stress about it. Stress is horrible for your health, as I can personally attest. Feel free to keep an eye on things with the rest of us, but find other things you like to do while we wait on a verdict. If you need recommendations, I'm sure we could spin the conversation off into discussing what to read, watch, or do while we wait on news regarding the comics, as long as things don't go too far off track.

You have just as much a right to be a part of this conversation as the rest of us, so feel free to ask away or join in on whatever's being discussed here. If other people are annoyed, then they can ignore you. Just don't spam. You also have the option of taking the conversation private and sending a private message to me or anyone else here who's willing to discuss with you further. (Though I'm not the most informative person here, and I don't always respond right away, you're free to message me if you feel like it.)

Thanks for the Italian hugs and greetings. They have a very special and unique flavor.

 

 

Wow, thank you very much. As for stress, by sharing a certain problem that affects my health I know perfectly what it means. The thing that overwhelms me a bit is that there are people who believe that many Sonic fans have left the franchise rotting, regardless of any other game made by external teams, by SEGA itself (or recently by re-launching with Sonic Boom, more focused on children with a plot of incipit that is essentially the same, only that the setting and the universe itself are different. Just keep in mind that there are no Chaos Emeralds for example). In the last few days I know for sure that Sonic has not passed it well ... and it is pointless to distribute the blame to anyone because of his fall from the top. Coming back to the comic, I have no idea exactly how Archie is successful ... but I certainly know he is not alongside IDW, Marvel, DC and the like (or maybe I'm wrong) ... the fact that they are keeping us so Long on the thorns can not give me a clear idea of what they want to do. The so-called 'Discussion' is one of the processes of the matter, so they say. But what other processes can be? If it is a matter of promotion through Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces, I do not see why to interrupt. Indeed the issues that were to come out were set on the Sonic Classic ... Sonic Universe with the Chaotix Team. If in the hypothesis, SEGA wants to patch up the whole universe of Sonic to have comic-related comics, in my eye, I do not see much publicity or profit. This is something that can make me more sense with an animated series (see Sonic Boom, although I do not know how much the comic book and series are connected to each other). What I want to say is that if Sega wants to do this, it would be like throwing 25-year-old characters specially created for the comic (beautiful too) and I think the comics attached to the next games can only be unnecessary fillers. Other ideas I would not ... pass rights? In short ... honestly I would not. Strange that we have come to this situation despite the reboot of the entire universe from Countdown To Chaos ... I'm thinking aloud ^^ ". Something to you, from Countdown, did not like it? It may also be a reason for appreciation, as well as monetary.

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@NicoGuardian, Sonic fans and the quality of recent Sonic games and TV show is a very interesting topic to discuss, but it's probably outside the purpose of this thread, aside from how it affects or could affect the comics. To me, the comics have been higher quality than the rest of the recent franchise. Perhaps I am missing your point, so if I am, I would need you to further explain what you mean. ^_^;. If you're saying that the fans are killing the comics, then I hope it's not true, but I can see where you're coming from.

You are correct in saying that Archie is not as successful as Marvel and DC—at least not as classically successful as sold in comic shops. Unlike Marvel and DC, Archie is able to sell in grocery stores, which is money we likely don't get to see accounted for in sales figures that come from the comic stores, but I would still say that Archie is a much smaller company than Marvel and DC and operates on an entirely different level. I would put Archie closer to IDW and other smaller publishers, probably even smaller than IDW, but I have no real information beyond that opinion.

I think the main guesses regarding what's going on between Archie and Sega are (and others can add to the list):

  1. Archie and Sega are renegotiating the contract. Either Sega wants more money for the license or they want to be paid separately for "classic" Sonic and "modern" Sonic, which again is more money. Or maybe they want Archie to reboot like you mentioned and make the comics even more like the games if not exactly the same and Archie is fighting back (I don't see this last option as likely, because I don't think it would take this long to figure out).
  2. Archie doesn't care about Sonic anymore because of their new Riverdale TV show and their All New All Different Archie. (Some sources seem to have denied this, but it could still be a small factor regarding what Archie is choosing to focus on.)
  3. Archie is having financial issues and simply can't print the issues or pay for the license until things stabilize. (I don't know if people are actually saying this; it's just a thought. Archie has printed on lower-quality paper for their trade paperbacks recently.)
  4. The Fulop lawsuit has something to do with what's going on. Either it's draining resources or making Sega question whether or not they want to continue doing business with Archie. Maybe Archie and Sega are both waiting on the results of the court case before deciding what to do with the comics. (Again, some disagree with this possibility, but I think it could maybe at least be a small factor.)

Whether any of the of the above is true, I don't think anyone can say with certainty, but that's my attempt at consolidating the various theories.

I've stated before that I hope that Sega isn't demanding another reboot, since I think this would bring the comics down to the level of the rest of the current franchise and guarantee financial ruin and cancellation of the comics. You're right; doing so would make the comics little more than filler for the sub-par games, while possibly still being better than the games.

I can't tell if you're asking me about Countdown, but I liked it just fine. I'm  happy to hear your thoughts if you have any.

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13 minutes ago, Ernest-Panda said:

Not to be a mini-mod or anything but why are you still discussing it here?

Really sorry. I'll just post my response on the other topic ^^" 

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Sorry everyone. I feel as though I was not adequately notified that the discussion regarding the delays had been moved, and everyone since then has been implying that fact instead of outright and clearly stating it. I'll refrain from further discussing the delays here.

Edit: I probably just didn't understand the staff note quote. I've never seen a link from one thread to another before and thought it was just a weird quote, so I skimmed past it. Anyway, whatever. Back to non-delay discussion.

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5 minutes ago, Ernest-Panda said:

I've been meaning to say: does anyone else think Mirage Saloon would be a great location for a post-SGW equivalent to the Sandblasters to hang out?

Nah, they don't seem the "Ol' Western Front" type. If anything, Oil Desert would be perfect (and would have been perfect pre-reboot as well...but it didn't exist when Thicker Than Water came out, so they had Oil Ocean instead). 

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Double post, but can I just say how Sonic Forces basically gives two middle fingers to fitting in with the Archie continuity? It may have general idea of "Eggman conquers, heroes remain to stop them", but for fitting in it's really bad.

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@VEDJ-F In my opinion, Sonic Forces thumbs it nose at the very idea of plot or characterization, based on all the trailers so far. I think an Archie adaptation would have a whole lot of sprucing up to do all around.

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Exactly. If they wanted a good adaptation to end the comic on (which I hope doesn't happen for a while), this would be a great, high stakes story to wrap everything up. 

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I like to imagine Forces will happen after Chronicles, which is confirmed to take place sometime after the end of the book. (Which hopefully hasn't happened yet) Just say Eggman completely conquered the world while the heroes were away, and he met Infinite.

I just wonder when Forces happened/will happen for Classic Sonic, since we know he experienced Generations right after Sonic 2. (And unlike the games, the comics don't bother with that "two-worlds" malarky.)

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As a pseudo adaptation maybe. But directly lifted ala Heroes in the comic? You'd have to explain why the FFs and every other team was gone, why Cream (and Big) is out of the resistance efforts, why the Egg Army has just not shown up, why GUN wouldn't keep tabs on this (whether Shadow is genuinely, brainwashed, or this is a different Shadow from another time/dimension), and maybe even why Eggman didn't have the clout to take over the world on his own since in the game he required help to do so (as said in the very recent Famitsu interview). 

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I'm just expecting the writing and direction in Forces to be so poor (on par-ish with Colors and Lost World) to where much of it would have to be re-written for an adaptation that doesn't have gameplay to distract from it's many problems.

17 hours ago, Forte-Metallix said:

"two-worlds" malarky

Malarkey is the proper word for Sega's apparent two-worlds paradigm.

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On ‎14‎.‎6‎.‎2017 at 2:59 PM, NicoGuardian said:

Thanks ^W^ 

You're welcome. Sorry if it seemed a bit frosty, I was trying to be informative, quick and not too mod-like (heaven forbid me doing something like that ever, I don't want to step on toes and/or act of being any better I am :blush: ). It's a tough act of balance. I hope it helped though. ^_^

On ‎14‎.‎6‎.‎2017 at 2:02 AM, VEDJ-F said:

They want the situation cleared up, not get a migraine. 

...And after that post I realised my brain chemistry works so differently compared to the others. Sorry, I just recalled it wasn't that far on the past pages when this stuff emerged the time just before this latest one. :blush:

_____________________

Somehow, the Avatar's E3 version's description on one of Stadium's articles about the said matter as a character not having any superpowers and relying on tech and such instead does give me a bit same kind of vibes the FF as a concept kind of gives, not so much of the tech part rather than the not-superpowered but still competent enough to do stuff.

And there it kind of leaves at this point.

I feel a bit divided over Forces getting included onto the comics; straight-forward adaptation would leave too many questionmarks I think, as other's have stated already. On the other hand, something akin to what they did with the Unleashed story (at least what they did before WU was well-made I think, they got in hurry after that) would work way better.

...And if someone's not knowing what to read at the moment; read One Piece if crazy doesn't scare you off. It was about as love at the first sight it can get for me... :D

 

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On 6/10/2017 at 2:46 AM, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Yeah, that was one group that didn't show up. I wouldn't say they got the shaft tho, despite all that given their reference in Eggman's Dozen.

Well them, maybe the Devils, and the Woodsland Kingsmen. 

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Here's a thinky thing for anyone interested. I got a PM from a member who will remain unnamed unless or until he (using the generic masculine here) wishes to reveal himself. The PM asked about jumping-on points for the comics. I gave my personalized opinion, but I thought it might possibly make an interesting general topic within this thread if anyone's interested. Where would you recommend a new reader jump into the Sonic comics? If there are multiple entry points you might recommend based on the tastes of the person in question, then what are they? Are there any parts of the comic you would discourage someone reading as an introduction to the books? If so, what are they an why?

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Fair 'nough. Maybe this is a simpler topic than I thought. What do you think of Sonic Genesis as a jumping-on point? Or even Worlds Collide for people who just want the new stuff but also want to know what's up with the Super Genesis Wave stuff at the beginning of #252?

Edit: Also, does anyone have any thoughts on jumping-on points for the pre-Ian (prian? prean?) stuff, or is it basically that if you read the old stuff you might as well start at the beginning? I understand that things get a bit more serious around #21 for people who want to skip the initial jokey phase of the comics.

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I suppose if you've already been playing the games then Worlds Collide would be a good place too, since the altered reality in the crossover has a setting that a game fan would be more familiar with.

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12 minutes ago, Borvoc said:

What do you think of Sonic Genesis as a jumping-on point? Or even Worlds Collide for people who just want the new stuff but also want to know what's up with the Super Genesis Wave stuff at the beginning of #252?

Worlds Collide can work too, assuming they have an easy way to read the issues in order. (Since it's a multi-series crossover and all.)  Genesis I'd suggest against, since it might just make things even more confusing for a first-time reader, considering it just adds more non-canon origins for everyone.

Another possible starting point could be Genesis of a Hero 1 to 3 before moving on to Worlds Collide, since even without GoaH 4, it still retells Sonic 1, 2, and CD in the new continuity, and helps briefly introduce the FFs, the King, and Naugus (sort of) ahead of 252 and Countdown to Chaos.

Mega Drive and The Next Level could also work, if the lack of a conclusion doesn't feel like it'd be a problem.

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In my opinion the "Perfect" (and easiest) Jumping-Point is:

Genesis of a Hero 1-3 --> Worlds Collide --> StH 252 --->

it presents some backstory and throw you right into action before going back to a slower pace in 252, and then when it starts developing the story you already have a good baggage of knowledge about the characters and overall setting.

 

But we also have the other jumping-point, which is StH 160, the debut of Ian Flynn and Tracy Yardley! (A.K.A OMG IS THIS THE SAME COMIC AS LAST ISSUE???SRSLY?)

this one i only recomend if the person is willing to go through a lot of material he'll not understand at first, and will need to read some older stuff (or just search on Mobius Encyclopedia) to fully understand what's going on,  But for newcomers i would still recomend "the easiest" jumping-point and after if he is curious about the pre-SGW continuity i'd recomend #160 as a place to start

 

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There isn't really any good jumping on point pre-Ian Flynn. Most issues then pale in comparison both story-wise and art-wise, so much so that a transition into the Ian Flynn era from then would be a jarring experience for some.

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