Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Inkarnate]

Just now, Borvoc said:

It would, however, make sense and line up with what I've been saying about filling out a world.

Yeah— a better comparison to the Sonic publications would be other adventure titles, particularly in the majors and indies (DC, Marvel, Dark Horse, IDW). Where would the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles comics be if they only relied on characters from the original prints from Eastman and Laird? Such is my point.

[Borvoc]

Granted that before I started reading Archie Sonic regularly a couple years ago, not long before 252, I wanted them to nix all the Archie original characters. Then I started reading and found that the Archie characters, to me at least, didn't get in the way or change the feel of the story; if anything, the books delivered more of the Sonic feeling than many of the recent games had, and all the secondary and tertiary characters added to the feeling instead of taking from it . I'd challenge anyone who doesn't like the Archie characters, like I didn't, to read and give them a chance. If you're still of the same opinion, then that's fine too.

I'm personally a big fan of keeping the comics like the games, except maybe not as dumbed-down as some of the recent games. Same feeling, more story and world focus, I guess?

Edit: I probably couldn't have said that thing about the Archie characters not getting in the way back in the older days of the comic; it really could have used some reeling in at that point, but it was no one's fault; Sega hadn't really given much to work with at that point.

[Inkarnate]

Just now, Borvoc said:

Granted that before I started reading Archie Sonic regularly a couple years ago, not long before 252, I wanted them to nix all the Archie original characters. Then I started reading and found that the Archie characters, to me at least, didn't get in the way or change the feel of the story; if anything, the books delivered more of the Sonic feeling than many of the recent games had, and all the secondary and tertiary characters added to the feeling instead of taking from it . I'd challenge anyone who doesn't like the Archie characters, like I didn't, to read and give them a chance. If you're still of the same opinion, then that's fine too.

I'm personally a big fan of keeping the comics like the games, except maybe not as dumbed-down as some of the recent games. Same feeling, more story and world focus, I guess?

So what they wanted to do when they did Sonic vs Final Fantasy Sonic '06. 

[Linkabel]

Street Fighter also has a much smaller sphere of setting. Sonic the Hedgehog at its heart is an adventure genre comic— it tells diverse stories in diverse locations. This isn’t a series that relies on a singular city or framework such as a tournament and so forth. 

I think you're really simplifying Street Fighter though. Fights take place in different parts of the world. There's more than tournament arcs, sometimes we see origin stories that take place in Japan, China, USA, Europe etc etc.

There's revenge stories, spy thrillers, mysteries, a day in the life. And they also do a good job of expanding the stories of some of the games.

(I do agree that there should be new characters introduced if there's a new comic though.)

[Borvoc]

Just now, Sen said:

So what they wanted to do when they did Sonic vs Final Fantasy Sonic '06. 

lol. I never heard '06 compared to an FF game, but yeah, I personally thing that game was a solid diamond in the (really) rough. Don't like Elise as she was portrayed, though, or how Sonic swung on her from a hinge. To me, the epitome of storytelling in the Sonic series was the Sonic Adventure games, with SA2 being the more grounded or well-presented. To me, these two games told the stories that the Genesis games were trying to tell but with more success due to increased technology, voice acting, etc. That's why I don't like it when people treat "Classic" and "Modern" Sonic as two separate things; to me, they are the same thing expressed through different levels of technology, albeit with tweaks to the gameplay as mandated by the third dimension.

People can agree or disagree with my opinion, but that's more-or-less where I come from.

[Inkarnate]

Just now, Borvoc said:

To me, the epitome of storytelling in the Sonic series was the Sonic Adventure games, with SA2 being the more grounded or well-presented. To me, these two games told the stories that the Genesis games were trying to tell but with more success due to increased technology, voice acting, etc.

Yeah, Sonic Adventure (both of them) knew how to make use of their cast to tell a dynamic story that was as light and hopeful as it was dark and moody. It was a big factor in motivating a lot of young people into the fandom for a damn good reason.

[Borvoc]

27 minutes ago, Sen said:

Yeah— a better comparison to the Sonic publications would be other adventure titles, particularly in the majors and indies (DC, Marvel, Dark Horse, IDW). Where would the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles comics be if they only relied on characters from the original prints from Eastman and Laird? Such is my point.

Off-topic a bit, Sen, but do you mean something specific by "adventure titles", or do you just mean they're adventure-y (i.e. most comics)? I ask because I've noticed some comics that use "Adventure" in their title tend to be more kid-focused, like the Sonic comics are (not that they're immature or dumbed-down so much as they're appropriate for all ages). Examples would be The Batman Adventures and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Amazing Adventures. Is this a comics-industry-wide thing, or is that not what you're referring to and a complete coincidence?

[Zavok the SpinningSilver]

3 minutes ago, El Driver said:

I honestly never liked that reasoning that he needed to focus on world building and that's why the stories didn't feel complete.

A good story teller should know how to do both. Ian is a good writer, but sometimes he took so long establashing stuff that the story felt rushed towards the end.

To be honest, if there's one thing that I would level against Ian, it's this. I love the fact that he goes out of his way to set things up for the future. It makes the world feel active and the characters feel real. But there's a balance that you have to strike between that and pacing the story. Personally, I feel that this was at its best in the initial run up to 200. Individual issues with the stories aside, it felt like there was a better balance between the main conflict of Sonic and co VS the Eggman Empire and the little stories all over Mobius. That's why when everything came to a head in 200, there was an earned sense of accomplishment. The fact that Ian was actively trying to tie as many loose ends of the previous writers up and clean house a bit might have something to do with it, but there was always something new going on. The pacing didn't feel like it was moving too fast or slow, and there was a nice pattern of set up and pay off... most of the time.

Comparing that to a number of stories that came afterward (pre and post 252), and the imbalance became more noticeable. While I still enjoy a lot of these stories, it felt like Ian was caught in a perpetual cycle of building up and not really capitalizing on a payoff. Some portions of the story (especially in the Iron Dominion and Mecha Sally arcs) dragged on without much sign of things actually happening. When the time came to actually wrap things up, events played out so fast and lose sometimes that the scenes of accomplishment didn't resonate that well. While these aren't my sentiments regarding the Shattered World Crisis as a whole, I'd imagine that some people felt that the extra world building wasn't that much of a service to it. 

[Inkarnate]

3 minutes ago, Borvoc said:

Off-topic a bit, Sen, but do you mean something specific by "adventure titles", or do you just mean they're action-y (i.e. most comics)? 

I'm referring to the literary genre, actually. In modern day contexts we often amalgamate it into what is known as “action-adventure”, so I suppose that might be more contemporarily known. I’m a writer so I tend to see things from said artistic point-of-view; narrative, characterization, theme, tone, mood, genre, subtext, etc. Sonic the Hedgehog, to me, is about high-flying adventure where the stakes are high and the consequences are higher. You could compare this to many comic books as many comic books rely on this genre as it is not only engaging to read but one of the most familiar within the entertainment medium. Indiana Jones is an adventure film based on the adventure pulp serials and novels of the early 20th Century as an immediate example.

[NikoS]

ok, now preview's world release dates changed AGAIN

March 1st for Sonic #291

and February 22 for Universe #95

[Meta77]

I saw a amazon add for a comic app today. I'm qt work so couldn't look long but it said new sonic issue was dated Nov 2017. Odd I know

[Borvoc]

9 minutes ago, Sen said:

I'm referring to the literary genre, actually. In modern day contexts we often amalgamate it into what is known as “action-adventure”, so I suppose that might be more contemporarily known. I’m a writer so I tend to see things from said artistic point-of-view; narrative, characterization, theme, tone, mood, genre, subtext, etc.

Ah, I gotcha. I need to get me some o' them writing skill thingeries. I'll refrain from further literary questions so as not to derail this thread.

The whole things with other comics putting "Adventures" in their titles must just be people riding on the popularity of The Batman Adventures, which in turn rode on the popularity of Batman the Animated Series. Either that, or I'm seeing patterns that aren't there.

[Big Panda]

19 minutes ago, NikoS said:

ok, now preview's world release dates changed AGAIN

March 1st for Sonic #291

and February 22 for Universe #95

Wait then that means they're being released in reverse order.

[Your Vest Friend]

Okay, so for the sake of my own need to compare and contrast, I've looked back at the SSMB posts from around the time the hiatus last year started to note the differences between that and what we have here, aside from the printing press cause I mentioned before.

-The first sign of literally anything was Previewsworld not listing one of the issues was due out as coming out on the date it was due out, as PW list new releases for a week beforehand. In comparison, we haven't even looked at that yet (ergo, the list for January 25th is now up, and StH#291 is not there), we know the books are delayed and this was the fourth thing spotted or something?

-New solicits actually came out during the early stages of the delay. Not so much later when they needed to not be so far ahead. 

-The 2016 Sonic FCBD issue was actually revealed while the delay was happening.

-It had zero effect on subscriptions (yeah, someone decided to marathon the Archie comics during this time, and at the end they decided to subscribe to the comic and edited the post to say they'd done it). 

[NikoS]

13 minutes ago, Ernest-Panda said:

Wait then that means they're being released in reverse order.

now it's wait and see if the dates will be mantained

also, regarding the previews

Quote

...Diamond isn’t releasing the next issue of Previews until February 1st. So everything’s been delayed a week. The same thing will happen with next month’s info dump, as the following Previews won’t hit stands until March 1st.

 

[Meta77]

[Zavok the SpinningSilver]

1 minute ago, Meta77 said:

December 27 sounds like a placeholder date. Perhaps they're just as in the dark?

[Betz]

Y'know what? I have an odd thought in my head. Next year is 25 years of Sonic Comics right? What if Archie is doing all this (pushing back issues and stopping subscriptions) because they want to have 300 come out on the 25th year? It seems stupid, but then again, Archie has done stupid stuff before. It's not ENTIRELY impossible. That's my thought.

[Your Vest Friend]

To be fair, I wasn't on the lookout for Sonic solicits only, I was looking for Archie solicits and seeing if Sonic was with them. If they're delayed by a week or so, so be it. 

[Big Panda]

Just want to mention, February 22 and March 1 are also the (initially) projected release dates for Super Special Magazine #14 and Overdrive respectively.

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, SpinningSilver said:

 

Comparing that to a number of stories that came afterward (pre and post 252), and the imbalance became more noticeable. While I still enjoy a lot of these stories, it felt like Ian was caught in a perpetual cycle of building up and not really capitalizing on a payoff. Some portions of the story (especially in the Iron Dominion and Mecha Sally arcs) dragged on without much sign of things actually happening. When the time came to actually wrap things up, events played out so fast and lose sometimes that the scenes of accomplishment didn't resonate that well. While these aren't my sentiments regarding the Shattered World Crisis as a whole, I'd imagine that some people felt that the extra world building wasn't that much of a service to it. 

This is also compounded onto with at least imo, sometimes he actually does ok world building... but it never gets capitalized on. Sometimes it was his fault, sometimes it was legal, but its not a good look. And if the book did end, then my criticism of game characters needing to be featured way more, would be right be technicality. Because there would be a bunch we barley saw and a bunch who stories got unfinished while I had to stare at the FF be uninteresting in the main book " build the world " for multiple years.  

[Big Panda]

Oh yeah, next week was also supposed to be when the next Super Digest (whichever issue that was) was released, which, of course, there's also no sign of.

Whatever becomes of Archie Sonic as a whole after this, I wouldn't be surpised if the Digests were dead by this point.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I honestly didn't know they weren't already.

[FriendBot]

If the Digests were dead, then I wouldn't have been able to get Issues 14 to 17 at this point. But yeah, it's been a long time coming to get number 18, unless they decide to say "nah, just release 19" and then my OCD will go up by 11 and start losing it even moreso.

[johnboy3434]

So, I'm familiar with a few of the concepts from the Archie comics, and I've even read some issues that a friend said were really good, but I've never really delved into the series. Would it be worth it to start from the beginning and try to marathon Archie's entire library? If the answer's "yes", then is there a resource listing the comics in release order? I generally prefer that to chronological order.