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16 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

But comedy

You mean "butt comedy", right?

...Sorry. I had to. It's AoSTH, after all.

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9 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

The comic produced some of the worst content in the history of sonic. 

I say this having played through sonic 06 and ROL multiple times. 

So nah

Way to completely miss the point again, dude. :rolleyes:

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Honestly, AoStH can be just as awkward depending on what one would see as Sonic. SatAM was more coherent in its setting while AoSTH was along thr lines of Ren and Stimpy in weirdness.

I kinda prefer SatAM at times, but boy I'll admit a lot of parts haven't aged well.

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I say neither of them are like Sonic (Except Robotnik, he's the closest the DiC cartoons and the early comics ever got to Eggman). So if I have to judge them as their own shows for what they do, I prefer AoStH. And damn it Robotnik is still a freakin' riot even to this day. I love Long John Baldry.

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4 hours ago, NikoS said:

it's incredible how i've seen this comparison like a thousand times but it keeps impressing me, from water to wine

From edgy anime bs to actual Sonic-y art, twas a beautiful thing. 

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324?cb=20140603102203

I will say I enjoyed how the comic treated Shadow's character growth than in his own game.

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3 hours ago, BlueSky said:

Aaallright, it's all loose again in here isn't it? It's all pears and oranges yet again... sheesh...

Firstly, I don't think either of the said elements (games & comics) are nuclear waste type of uncleanable mess. I happen to like some parts of those comics and I'm also interested in some elements those games delivered. Maybe I'm just a childish idiot who'll eat up anything if it feeds my imagination in any way possible but I think this way. -_-

I'm not saying all the books are an uncleanable mess. But to fix the two stories i mentioned, means to change those two stories. The grossness and terribleness of those narratives are tied to what those stories. They aren't just some terrible stories someone thought up, those stories are the result of years and years of terrible lore, bad characters , sexist tones, and a complete disregard for the source material. That culminated into those stories, to remove elements from those stories is to start removing those stories. At least in my opinion. The two stories I mentioned I feel, are uncleanable now though, the comic has been rebooted. they are going to be there forever, they wont be fixed or solved. ( I think that's fine) but for those who know, all you can do is look back and groan. 

 

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My point being, comics are an easier media for me, possibly because my gaming thing started around my early teens because of reasons. Comics on the other hand have been around me pretty much always, so of course I'm a bit biased. Though there's some stuff that makes my head hurt when I try to read it, so well, maybe I'm not too biased after all...

I've been reading comics and playing games since I was very little. I consume both pieces of media fairly easy, but on that note it allows me to be more privy to bullshit in either when I see it. 

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So, I'd like to ask a question for all that are interested in doing some self-reflecting; which one you grew up with and how you think it affects in your opinion around this matter? Or were both as strongly included in your youth? :huh:

See response above. 

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And well... I think I actually love myself some bedtime reading of this so-called "dark era" and it's nearby located stories... go figure, I like to "hmf" to them due to the fact one can't start laughing out loud too loud after 10pm. And I laugh very loudly. Yes, there's points, both artistic and script, that make me feel to make a good loud facedesk, but still, I tend to calm myself down by thinking; would I be any better?

Maybe, if you think so, maybe practice writing. Just because someone does a shit job and get paid for it, doesn't mean you can't do a better one. Someone got paid to write batman vs superman. Though that whole... ordeal was probably more zach Snyder's fault. But I think you get my point. 

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Yeah, they're (supposedly) paid professionals, but still, I'd like to first have a power behind my words before going around pointing fingers at people and say they do a lousier job than 5-year-old child.

I feel as though that's not a good mindset. Just because you can't do a better job, doesn't mean you can't call out someones shit one. Example, how many game reviews you think actually know the ins an outs of making games. Some do ,honestly many don't especially those starting on YouTube. But their opinions are still valid positive or negative about the games they choose to review. Yeah I do professional art for stuff sometimes for game stuff, doesn't mean that I have more of a privilege to call out  shitgames. One because games are a complicated thing made in parts different teams depending on the project size.. and i'm rambling. But point is, my illustrative experience allows me to have a different perspective while talking shit ,but I can still talk shit and so can you. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

324?cb=20140603102203

I will say I enjoyed how the comic treated Shadow's character growth than in his own game.

The artwork and shadows eye line makes it look like he's looking at Eggmans crotch and is about to punch him there...

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3 hours ago, Borvoc said:

 

Please tell me this isn't a thing.

 

That's sort of the plot of shadow the hedgehog

" Hey kiddo, turns out your are a demon dragon thing from the depths of space."

"That's  tight"

"But we wanna eat the life on this planet"

" that's less tight, gotta kill you " 

and then he does

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2 hours ago, Borvoc said:

@MetalSkulkBane I am hereby merging both of your posts into a Word document to be kept on my computer for future use. If I ever go back and read the old issues, it will be nice to know what to expect during certain eras or where to start to skip all the silly, jokey, early stuff. Someone should really ask Ian on the Bumblecase how long the Mecha Sally story was planned to be. I'm kind of curious now.

Thanks, I'm truly honored. If you want I could try even more detail (reading order, thoughts on most important events and characters, etc).

I think Flynn mentioned that he planned un-roboticized Sally around 250, so arc would take around 20 issues. Would fit the trend, considering that "Shattered World" was around 33.

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24 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

324?cb=20140603102203

I will say I enjoyed how the comic treated Shadow's character growth than in his own game.

I'm not a fan, because that still lead to the horrible shit dictator timeline. Which again would require complete disregard for his origin. As many problems as I have with the reboot, one of the good things that it has is something that directly contradicts the comic you posted because there is no sonic running into the room. Shadow just kinda... kills dude. And they have to navigate that and create problems individual to characters more often, I mean wish they addressed to problems more often than they do , and the main books problems havent been interesting for years. But the localization of issues I feel has been a genuinely good thing. And allows them to grow individually. But that's how I feel . 

Also that issue is apart of another terrible story. Lets not forget that. 

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12 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

The artwork and shadows eye line makes it look like he's looking at Eggmans crotch and is about to punch him there...

Dickpunch the Hedgehog would be a great name albeit a bit crude for the series.

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11 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I'm not a fan, because that still lead to the horrible shit dictator timeline. Which again would require complete disregard for his origin. As many problems as I have with the reboot, one of the good things that it has is something that directly contradicts the comic you posted because there is no sonic running into the room. Shadow just kinda... kills dude. And they have to navigate that and create problems individual to characters more often, I mean wish they addressed to problems more often than they do , and the main books problems havent been interesting for years. But the localization of issues I feel has been a genuinely good thing. And allows them to grow individually. But that's how I feel . 

 

...I have no idea what you just said. :|

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2 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

...I have no idea what you just said. :|

That story is still bad

the new comic separates the characters and allows them to tell individual growth stories, and allow them to do things that having them all together wouldn't allow. Like shadow's willingness to murder. Also I feel like that story is trying to give shadow a sort of closure, and I don't like that, trying to have him talk to gerald and maria. As apposed to the reboot, where they just have him...deal with it. No hope maria surrogate, no secret disks, he just has to exist and try to figure out what he is. So I actually don't like the pre-reboot more than the games in a lot of regards . 

It isn't perfect, but I like it better than it was before 

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8 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

That story is still bad

 

I prefer it over any path and ending in Shadow the Hedgehog.

It summarizes the game in one issue and moves Shadow to eventually joining G.U.N. and forming Team Dark.

Even the 124-125 story was a better alien invasion story than that game.

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25 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Thanks, I'm truly honored. If you want I could try even more detail (reading order, thoughts on most important events and characters, etc).

I think Flynn mentioned that he planned un-roboticized Sally around 250, so arc would take around 20 issues. Would fit the trend, considering that "Shattered World" was around 33.

So a little over a year and a half, huh? That would have been interesting.

Anything you feel like talking about on the topic is bound to be useful or interesting to myself or others here, so feel free. We've managed to drift from the delays to the history of the comic, its good and bad, so your opinions have the added benefit of even being on topic :P. I'm a categorizing and organizing type of person, myself, so I enjoy that sort of thing.

Your mentioning of reading order has me curious though. I'd assume you just start somewhere and keep going forward, right? Is there stuff in the comic that's out of order? Or are you talking about how to fit in the other books like Knuckles or Universe with the main book?

 

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20 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

I prefer it over any path and ending in Shadow the Hedgehog.

It summarizes the game in one issue.

Even the 124-125 story was a better alien invasion story than that game.

I disagree,

I also don't like the story because it then doesn't really appropriate itself. Even in the end it has knuckles and sonic giving snide lines and diverting the story into what we know now, bullshit. The moment shadow has can't even stand on its own, it had to be joked at and diverted into a much... much worse story. The reboot almost does this once with knuckles , but pulls back enough knowing to let the character have their moment and not divert the story into whatever other shit that's going on. Its something I like about the post reboot, characters get to exist and be cool and do stuff in universe, and that's it. No diversion of plot, not a lot of jokes , unless its a jokey arc. Everyone gets to be cool, and you can just dive in.  

I know like having the characters interact in the post reboot would be cool, but that issue of an exact example of why that doesn't happen. Even when they go try and find Gerald they dedicate a panel to sonic trying to flirt with Nicole. No, just let the cool story happen, and let shadow do his thing. Characters weren't allowed to just... exist in the pre-reboot.  Everything has to be playing up to something, and while the reboot is guilty of this, its in a grander sense and doesn't actively interrupt narratives. 

Along with both those things, I don't prefer it because it does it. It summarizes the game poorly, maybe you don't like that game. That's fine, but one of the games thing is shadow dealing with who he is , and making decisions about who he is and what he wants to do based on the black arms presented before him. This doesn't actually happen in the comic, this choice or his contemplation about who he is doesn't happen in the comic. Shadow was robbed of that choice, and doesn't feel like he made a natural story progression as to get to the end, he didn't make decisions to get that final panel that lead to him being his own person. He was just told that , which completely misses the point of the game entirely. 

In the reboot, while it doesn't go through the game. What it does do is introduce more black arms, which now allows shadow to think about who he is and what he is. Along with the bonus of shadow, not having a maria surrogate or having a magically maguffin disk that teaches him the power of friendship. He has to actually deal with his problems, and deal with who he is, by himself. Its a much harsher narrative more fitting for the character, and forces him to deal with an active problem. And allows to him to exist mostly by himself with it. Now the story isn't perfect, rouge is... not the best in the stories. However, its a adaptation of shadow the hedgehog even in post. Because it actually continues the theme of the game. Instead of being a shitty rushed approximation of it, ruined by rushing a character through his emotional arc to get to an even shitter story. 

So if you don't ShTH that's ok. But I can't agree with you on that being better, because its kinda a factually shittier rushed interpretation of a game, rushed to get to a worse story. 

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9 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

There are worse things in the comic than those. I don't think just because someone jokes about something makes it worse actuality. My ability to crack jokes at shadow murdering his entire family in the span of like... 2 days doesn't make shadow anyways better or worse. I don't decide what I like or dislike based on what people joke about it, there are people who talk hot shit about everything past classic , sa2 is one my favorite games. 

4 hours ago, Borvoc said:

Please tell me this isn't a thing.

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

That's sort of the plot of shadow the hedgehog

" Hey kiddo, turns out your are a demon dragon thing from the depths of space."

"That's  tight"

"But we wanna eat the life on this planet"

" that's less tight, gotta kill you " 

and then he does

Okay. Sorry for reposting the quotes. I'm just losing track of what exactly was said. I guess that's one way of looking at it, but I don't really see Shadow fighting against an invasion of evil aliens with whom he shares some DNA because science to be murdering his family. I'm not aware of how this story was handled in the comics, though.

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Oh dude, that's just a joke. The black arms technically share a species relation, but they aren't actually his family, well besides black doom. Its an exaggerated joke on the plot of ShTH, sorry for any confusion. 

 

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:P Sorry. I get it now. Your post right before mine makes your meaning more clear. For a while there, I though there might actually be a story out there about Shadow murdering his family or something. Wouldn't that be inappropriately mature and unnecessarily melodramatic. I understand the need for Shadow to struggle with who he is, though.

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57 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I know like having the characters interact in the post reboot would be cool, but that issue of an exact example of why that doesn't happen. Even when they go try and find Gerald they dedicate a panel to sonic trying to flirt with Nicole. No, just let the cool story happen, and let shadow do his thing.

 
 
 
 

Pretty sure that was just a compliment and a continunity nod to Nicoles's new form.

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but one of the games thing is shadow dealing with who he is , and making decisions about who he is and what he wants to do based on the black arms presented before him.

 
 
 
 

By listening to and following directions given to him by other characters. Which doesn't matter because in the game's final story and in the same issue, this still happens...

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The Professor told him that Shadow was originally meant to cure Maria but he needed help to complete the project. He sought aid of a monstrous alien known as Black Doom who wanted Shadow to be his greatest weapon. He helped Professor Gerald to create him and gave him the skills of Chaos Control. Black Doom will return to Mobius in 50 years. Then, Professor Gerald apologizes for putting so much responsibility on his shoulders, but tells him that he was made as a protector of Mobius.

 
 
 
 

 

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This doesn't actually happen in the comic, this choice or his contemplation about who he is doesn't happen in the comic.

There are a number of times he questions his existence and what he's supposed to do before the reboot in 145-149.

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In the reboot, while it doesn't go through the game. What it does do is introduce more black arms, which now allows shadow to think about who he is and what he is.

 
 
 
 

He pretty much repeats the exact same thing about protecting the planet.

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Along with the bonus of shadow, not having a maria surrogate or having a magically maguffin disk that teaches him the power of friendship. 

 
 
 
 

See this and above post.

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He has to actually deal with his problems, and deal with who he is, by himself.

 

He goes a with a team of allies, then ditches them to try and take on the entire alien force by himself and ends up getting mind controlled.

Then he's freed with his friend's help and works with them to finish the mission.

He's still learning not to be....overconfident.

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So if you don't ShTH that's ok. But I can't agree with you on that being better, because its kinda a factually shittier rushed interpretation of a game, rushed to get to a worse story.

 
 
 
 

It took one issue to summarize Shadow's original purpose.

All without profanity, guns, murder of Sonic or Eggman, or evil laughs.

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Did you guys play Sonic Battle? That's the follow up to Shadow after his own game isn't it? Since he's got his memories back and all. Well anyway, Shadow's story was honestly one of the best written parts of Battle. It has some pretty nice insight into his character. So if you guys wanna talk what follows after Shadow the Hedgehog the game, there's that.

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3 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

Did you guys play Sonic Battle? That's the follow up to Shadow after his own game isn't it? 

 

Sonic Battle came out in 2003, before Shadow the Hedgehog in 2005.

It's more a follow up to Heroes.

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12 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

Pretty sure that was just a compliment and a continunity nod to Nicoles's new form.

I don't care about that dumb whatever, let the character do his story. 

They do this much better with knuckles, shadow looking eclipse actually plays into the narrative of the story in the last story featuring shadow and knuckles, and it doesn't actively interrupt. Yeah shadow has other shit going on, but he doesn't try to play up knuckles, knuckles get to have his moment and they leave. I would say the same thing about shadow if he did that in that arc. I don't care about your dumb eclipse thing, let knuckles do his thing. 

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By listening to and following directions given to him by other characters. Which doesn't matter because in the game's final story and in the same issue, this still happens...

He chooses to do those things, in that game you can also listen to no one and just murder eggman. 

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There are a number of times he questions his existence and what he's supposed to do before the reboot in 145-149.

They didn't really culminate to anything, and with this, those questions didn't culminate to anything and he didn't solve the problem. It was magically solved for him via disk

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He pretty much repeats the exact same thing about protecting the planet.

No, if you are talking about the story you presented. There are elements of that story, like say eclipse that are continuous problems, that bring who he is , what he's about and his general unknowingness of those two things into question. Him saying the line, it seems you think , that's the whole of his arc.. its more than that. Its a myriad of things. 

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He had to get through a whole game, to get that point. Litterally murdering the people who could help him find out what exactly he is, the black arms  to get that point He didn't just show up to a house in the middle of another story with a stupid disk, and then the problem was solved. Even after this in the next game, the question of who shadow, is and peoples inherit distrust of him continues. So no that's the same thing. 

 

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He goes a with a team of allies, then ditches them to try and take on the entire alien force by himself and ends up getting mind controlled.

He's still learning not to be....overconfident.

He still deals with that by himself, no matter how many allies he has, he can't use them to fight the insecurities he has about who he is. Which, is the point of that story. 

Hell the part where rouge tries to lecture him falls flat, the attempt to even include other folks in his story fails, and just gets back to his story. 

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It took one issue to summarize Shadow's original purpose.

And it was shitty and bad, and got replaced with a better story

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All without profanity, guns, murder of Sonic or Eggman, or evil laughs included.

I know, its and it still shitty and bad and worse than the game.  Its ok if you like though , i'm not going to stop you. 

4 minutes ago, RictalRose0 said:

Did you guys play Sonic Battle? That's the follow up to Shadow after his own game isn't it? Since he's got his memories back and all. Well anyway, Shadow's story was honestly one of the best written parts of Battle. It has some pretty nice insight into his character.

I have, the story is ok. But I liked the gameplay more, wish they made a sequel to that game with out the dumb robot customization stuff. 

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1 minute ago, RictalRose0 said:

Actually Sonic Battle and Heroes came around the same time. Battle came one day earlier I think. 

In the game, Rouge mentions Omega.

They didn't meet Omega until Heroes so it had to be sometime after.

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