Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[BlueSky]

7 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

I hope they bring back AntoineXBunnie.

Yes they need. It's possibly one of the best pairings I've ever read about.

They really should bring this back, gee it survived a reboot for pity's sake!

9 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

Cool beans. I got a little reaction pic for it, but it has some strong words in it.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

*joke-filter on*

Yes, canon is such a strong word for some people in these circles...

*joke-filter off*

...

And I am really disappointed that art book didn't come out in time, I would've loved it...

[Flyinpenguin117]

11 hours ago, Tylinos said:

So, Ian basically just confirmed that Sally x Nicole was intentionally written into the comic:

 

Alright. Forget what I said. Screw Honey. This is the most disappointing loss of the whole situation.

[Kellan]

13 hours ago, Tylinos said:

So, Ian basically just confirmed that Sally x Nicole was intentionally written into the comic:

 

Huh, I always thought that they were like sisters. I must've really missed some subtext.

Still, good for them.

[SBR2]

YAAAAS!

[DaddlerTheDalek]

1 hour ago, Kellan said:

Huh, I always thought that they were like sisters. I must've really missed some subtext.

Still, good for them.

You are not alone. I knew they are very close but not that close.

Still cute tho. Could somebody give us some examples to refresh our memories?

 

[Flyinpenguin117]

1 hour ago, Kellan said:

Huh, I always thought that they were like sisters. I must've really missed some subtext.

Still, good for them.

44 minutes ago, DaddlerTheDalek said:

You are not alone. I knew they are very close but not that close.

Still cute tho. Could somebody give us some examples to refresh our memories?

 

With pleasure!

...okay, its easy for me to see what I want to. I'm also completely oblivious to romance and have avoided a relationship for the last 4 years. But its more like its ambiguous enough to not be incredibly obvious, but there's enough hints that it isn't completely out of left field. Sally has a lot more one-on-one interactions with Nicole than anyone else, especially outside of missions. They're also pretty touchy-feely with each other. I don't thinnk Sally really has the same level of intimacy with any other characters. Here's basically everything I could find:

  Hide contents

And during his parting monologue, Chip went out of his way to mention the two of them

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/QRFJeauvB4MQvAVMIFhAQHM96kOXJgmVQh6pn2Vn18YniWlpE67mgZpZC5P1zRFR2shYT1OKsQM=s0

[Polkadi~☆]

Reading between the lines, I could see a Sally X Nicole situation was always gonna happen.

I mean, I'm cool with it, nothing wrong with that, but I always saw the two as close sisters. So it just comes across as odd for me.

And SEGA is a Japanese company, and Japan has their own stance on LGBT relationships. Sooo, yeah, it actually is surprising Ian got away with the hints.

[SBR2]

Well I mean Sally and Nicole's whole dynamic was encouraging each other and making cutsey comments back and forth to each other Post-Reboot so it makes sense.

[SonicComicFanboy]

33 minutes ago, Polkadi said:

Reading between the lines, I could see a Sally X Nicole situation was always gonna happen.

I mean, I'm cool with it, nothing wrong with that, but I always saw the two as close sisters. So it just comes across as odd for me.

And SEGA is a Japanese company, and Japan has their own stance on LGBT relationships. Sooo, yeah, it actually is surprising Ian got away with the hints.

 Well Japan has entire genres of manga dedicated to same sex relationships so...

 

Also wasn't SEGA technically an American company before it was a Japanese company.  If I remember correctly it (sort of) started in Hawaii in the early 20th century and eventually/temporarily became a subsidary of the company that would one day become Viacom.  But it moved to Japan because parts for its slot machines or what not were cheaper there and was folded into another company that would become the modern SEGA, or something like that.

 

Anywho in a round about way SEGA is arguably both an American & Japanese company.  Not that that helps the comic in any way, but just kind of a neat tid bit.

 

 

Anywho, yea, if Sally & Nicole are lucky enough to survive the transfer of the comic from Archie to IDW, SEGA might force them to nip the realationship in the bud.

[Flyinpenguin117]

Oh yeah, missed one. "Excited victory hug" isn't the best evidence of shipping, but the last panel makes it seem like Sally was hugging Nicole a little too long.

[Celestia]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't SEGA of Japan support a Pride event recently? Edit: Yeah.

Of course that sort of corporate activism can't be taken very seriously, plus a company isn't a hive mind after all, who knows how Sonic Team and so on feel. On top of that, Sonic is a series primarily for kids and you know how weird people are about protecting children from even knowing about the gays, etc. I could see even Archie hesitating simply cuz it's not even their property, and who knows how SEGA would have responded (personally I don't think they'd care as long as it wasn't one of the game chars, but that's just a gut feeling).

Anyway Sally/Nicole rules, I'm glad it's hashtag confirmed, if only retroactively.

[BlueSky]

I have a faint memory about the more earlier BumbleKasts that someone actually asked Ian if SallyxNicole would be possible. Back then the answer was something akin to "I have nothing against it but pairings aren't the main point in the comics" or something if I recall that right.

Maybe he already had the ideas, I don't know...

...

... Am I the only one in here who puts (at least some) characters (in other medias too) in "bisexual boxes" unless their sexuality gets confirmed being something else..? I dunno but whenever (in very rare cases I do) I think about sexuality stuff it somehow makes stuff easier for me. "Don't need to bother with it right now too much, come back later if the bridge is ever crossed" mentality, kind of, but not really. Many characters can work fairly well with "bi-logic", no problem.

Unless someone's simply too asexual...  Or pervert.

[SBR2]

14 hours ago, Celestia said:

Of course that sort of corporate activism can't be taken very seriously, plus a company isn't a hive mind after all, who knows how Sonic Team and so on feel. On top of that, Sonic is a series primarily for kids and you know how weird people are about protecting children from even knowing about the gays, etc.

I will never get that mindset. We don't strive to keep kids away from the straight so why are Gay relationships and romances so much more objectionable? I mean the obvious answer is Homophobia clearly but it's always so weird how people will focus of the sex part of a Gay relationship but when they think of Straight ones it's all pure and good.

Quote

... Am I the only one in here who puts (at least some) characters (in other medias too) in "bisexual boxes" unless their sexuality gets confirmed being something else..? I dunno but whenever (in very rare cases I do) I think about sexuality stuff it somehow makes stuff easier for me. "Don't need to bother with it right now too much, come back later if the bridge is ever crossed" mentality, kind of, but not really. Many characters can work fairly well with "bi-logic", no problem

Nah I do that too. Sexualities a spectrum and can change when you least expect it.

[Sega DogTagz]

So, were we supposed to take Nicole as a horn-dog who couldn't keep her lovey-dovey side in check? Because Nicole had quite a few encounters that could be interpreted as romantic interest. Sonic, Espio, Shard... even Rotor if you want to stretch it. Nicole was all over the place. If we throw Sally into that mix, it just makes that problem worse.

Could it be that her naivety to human emotions made her more prone to these kinds of expressions?

[Your Vest Friend]

7 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Sonic

Probably invoked due to the circumstances. She literally just felt the sensation of having a body for the first time, of course she'd be all over the place then. 

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Espio

Dunno if they were planning to go there or not given that the only real thing was a one-panel glance. He helped her out when talking to Dimitri after, but since then they never really did anything with it. Could be that SEGA even nipped it in the bud considering something else. 

Quote

 Shard

Okay, that's just plain wrong. Shard showed feelings for Nicole, not the other way around. If they were going to go somewhere with that, it was cut off at the knees by the reboot and she ended up never having feelings for him shown.

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Rotor if you want to stretch it.

I doubt that was intended to be romantic given that Rotor was literally her creator in a future. That'd be like shipping Ellidy with Nicole. 

Sally's had far more invoked romantic interests and feelings than Nicole. 

[BlueSky]

So, was it implied only in post-reboot or in pre-reboot too?

Now I'm getting confused...

[Korke]

Continuing my point that I began with BlueSky from the IDW thread... I've decided to talk a bit more about it because I found quite interesting how popular this business got in here.

So, I've re-read the said Salicole panels here and... I must admit that I don't see anything that accusing on those panels, because this may be a cultural shock. We brazillians (and latinos in general) are quite... how can I say... close? Maybe a footage of me kissing the cheeks of a girl might seem weird and SHIPPING MATERIAL11!!!1! but that's like the first thing we do when meeting a girl, or when a girl meets another girl. Anyway, that's trivial, just a curiosity I'd like to point out. If Ian did say it was intended, so it was.

I guess I should raise a immunity anti-"you are that kind of person11!" shield before going forward by saying that I do sympathize with one pairing of those types: BlazeXAmy. Oh well... Just to be safe and sound.

The thing that ticks is how similar this is to Sonails. Nicole has gotten her sentience status thanks to her daily interactions with Sally after being acquired, and eventually used her a mirror to become closer to a real person. Quite similar on how the orphan Tails did look up to Sonic to be "someone", using him as a mirror until he's got his own personality as soon as his Adventure character arc ended. Nicole didn't had this same treatment though, being just as a bland character as Sally was, which leads me to believe she copycat her friend entirely. Not her fault thought, as a child is prone to do these kind of things.

The message I get from this is quite awkward, as there is no such thing as true friendship. Like, you are choosing the person who taught you how to live to be your soulmate... Not sure how to use the right words here, but I guess you'll get where I'm getting at. I have childhood friends that are kinda like this, as I consider them my siblings despite no blood relation. They taught me even the most stupid things like how to cut a bread to place butter, to a decade later giving me advices on how to act in a job interview.

[BlueSky]

7 minutes ago, Korke said:

Continuing my point that I began with BlueSky from the IDW thread...

So, I've re-read the said Salicole panels here and... I must admit that I don't see anything that accusing on those panels, because this may be a cultural shock. We brazillians (and latinos in general) are quite... how can I say... close? Maybe a footage of me kissing the cheeks of a girl might seem weird and SHIPPING MATERIAL11!!!1! but that's like the first thing we do when meeting a girl, or when a girl meets another girl. Anyway, that's trivial, just a curiosity I'd like to point out. If Ian did say it was intended, so it was.

I guess I should raise a immunity anti-"you are that kind of person11!" shield before going forward by saying that I do sympathize with one pairing of those types: BlazeXAmy. Oh well... Just to be safe and sound.

The thing that ticks is how similar this is to Sonails. Nicole has gotten her sentience status thanks to her daily interactions with Sally after being acquired, and eventually used her a mirror to become closer to a real person. Quite similar on how the orphan Tails did look up to Sonic to be "someone", using him as a mirror until he's got his own personality as soon as his Adventure character arc ended. Nicole didn't had this same treatment though, being just as a bland character as Sally was, which leads me to believe she copycat her friend entirely. Not her fault thought, as a child is prone to do these kind of things.

The message I get from this is quite awkward, as there is no such thing as true friendship. Like, you are choosing the person who taught you how to live to be your soulmate... Not sure how to use the right words here, but I guess you'll get where I'm getting at. I have childhood friends that are kinda like this, as I consider them my siblings despite no blood relation. They taught me even the most stupid things like how to cut a bread to place butter, to a decade later giving me advices on how to act in a job interview.

Well, coming from a culture where handshaking is usually the most you can get out of someone you've never met before at best, I think I can get how it might not seem to every person in a same way, cultural shocks and all...

Well, I can see your point I think. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me like you're considering them to be more of something akin to "siblings without same parents". than "really close friends"

From that point it's pretty understandable not to find it this pairing comfortable.

Me myself haven't considered them as either, I always thought them being just close friends but I think I can see how you've come to your conclusion based on the material comics give to us.

Maybe it's partly (for me) the fact the FF has been pretty tight group when they were younger, at least that's how I see it but still maybe not about as close as siblings. That possibly makes this relationship more understandable for me.

[NikoS]

well, since this is still in discussion here i'll make one last post about this subject,

I re-read the pages posted here (and went back to some of the full issues), and again, i didn't find anything that screams "OMG THEY R TOTALLY IN ROMANTIC LOVE" , just normal behaviour that close life-long friends have between each other (much like me with my close friends tbh), now, i'll say something, Sally do loves Nicole, as every member of the Freedom Fighters, all of them clearly share a deep love for each other, you see, this really made me think and i remembered of something i read when i was studying greek before traveling some years ago, we have this one word we use to describe love, "love", but in greek they are a bit more specific, they have 4 words to express different kinds of love, and 3 of them don't have anything to do with romance, so i'd say that all the Freedom Fighters feel "Philia"  for each other, which matches with the life-long relation they have, double for Sally and Nicole, that were already together (in some fashion) by the time of Eggman's coup. sry if i went too far, had this sudden thought and felt like sharing.

[Your Vest Friend]

You could just accept that Ian and Aleah were writing with a romantic twist in mind but kept it on the low as they pretty much said, that it doesn't affect your own reading of the comic and that it's ultimately a moot point most likely as there's a good chance that they're never even going to show up again.

Besides, one flaw with the comparison to Sonic and Tails I find is that Nicole has never been a child mentally, and actually was observing the behaviours of all of the FFs to kickstart and expand her emotional side. Even when she started out, she was based on the brainwaves of a teenager, and has always acted and modelled her self in that image. She's comparable to Shadow the Hedgehog in that way, who for all intents and purposes was a teen from the start and learned empathy and connecting to people over the course of the week with Maria, and then later with team Sonic and Rouge (when you compare Nicole's situation to Shadow in that way, that would make Shadow/Rouge the parallel arguably).

Granted, I wouldn't say it was an invalid interpretation either, and I myself was ambivalent to the pairing before all this. But if that was their intent then, as I said, cool beans. 

[Dr. Detective]

They also managed to get away with it when it came to people like me who didn't care about either of their feelings for one another. 

[Korke]

1 hour ago, VEDJ-F said:

You could just accept that Ian and Aleah were writing with a romantic twist in mind but kept it on the low as they pretty much said, that it doesn't affect your own reading of the comic and that it's ultimately a moot point most likely as there's a good chance that they're never even going to show up again.

Besides, one flaw with the comparison to Sonic and Tails I find is that Nicole has never been a child mentally, and actually was observing the behaviours of all of the FFs to kickstart and expand her emotional side. Even when she started out, she was based on the brainwaves of a teenager, and has always acted and modelled her self in that image. She's comparable to Shadow the Hedgehog in that way, who for all intents and purposes was a teen from the start and learned empathy and connecting to people over the course of the week with Maria, and then later with team Sonic and Rouge (when you compare Nicole's situation to Shadow in that way, that would make Shadow/Rouge the parallel arguably).

I didn't meant to say that she had a child mind in the present(? past-present? well, the present of the post-reboot timeline which is now the past) but when she began building her personality after some years of 'usage' by Sally. As much as Spark of Life's plot point explains the origin of Nicole being able to develop sentience (the whole attempt of Dr. Ellidy trying to save his daughter) it is also clear that, should the doctor never handled his invent to Sally, Nicole would just be some software threw somewhere with barely enough intelligence as one of those VI's we have today in our smartphones (Siri, Cortana),

There's also the question of how long is she exposed to the FF's, and how long are we in the story since after the whole coup which created the group, but those questions will never be answered because, due to the mandates, they didn't show any time-stamps.

55 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

They also managed to get away with it when it came to people like me who didn't care about either of their feelings for one another. 

I can't blame you, it's hard for someone who's not already attached to a character to care when it's personality is so bland as it was in the post-reboot.

---

Now, I have thought about something, taking a break from the Salicole subject...

I remember someone mentioning about the quantity the two did talk to each other, but, that makes me wonder: despite her origins' special, in which she appears interacting with all of the cast in a single panel and telling how much does she care about... Have Nicole ever had a conversation with any FF who's not Sally? I can't recall it in any moment, which is kinda... weird? Oh, obviously not including generic mission instructions, of course. I may be inaccurate because I did quit the Post-Reboot comics right after #281, so I might have missed something.

[Flyinpenguin117]

12 minutes ago, Korke said:

Now, I have thought about something, taking a break from the Salicole subject...

I remember someone mentioning about the quantity the two did talk to each other, but, that makes me wonder: despite her origins' special, in which she appears interacting with all of the cast in a single panel and telling how much does she care about... Have Nicole ever had a conversation with any FF who's not Sally? I can't recall it in any moment, which is kinda... weird? Oh, obviously not including generic mission instructions, of course. I may be inaccurate because I did quit the Post-Reboot comics right after #281, so I might have missed something.

Nope. That's part of what lends credence to the whole idea, but Nicole never had any personal interaction with anyone. Even during missions/fights, Nicole mostly communicated with Sally (closest was assisting Rotor during the fight between Sky Patrol and the Death Egg in Panic in the Sky). Doesn't help that besides Spark of Life and the one subarc with the crystal cave, Nicole didn't appear much anyways.

[SBR2]

18 hours ago, Korke said:

Continuing my point that I began with BlueSky from the IDW thread... I've decided to talk a bit more about it because I found quite interesting how popular this business got in here.

So, I've re-read the said Salicole panels here and... I must admit that I don't see anything that accusing on those panels, because this may be a cultural shock. We brazillians (and latinos in general) are quite... how can I say... close? Maybe a footage of me kissing the cheeks of a girl might seem weird and SHIPPING MATERIAL11!!!1! but that's like the first thing we do when meeting a girl, or when a girl meets another girl. Anyway, that's trivial, just a curiosity I'd like to point out. If Ian did say it was intended, so it was.

I guess I should raise a immunity anti-"you are that kind of person11!" shield before going forward by saying that I do sympathize with one pairing of those types: BlazeXAmy. Oh well... Just to be safe and sound.

The thing that ticks is how similar this is to Sonails. Nicole has gotten her sentience status thanks to her daily interactions with Sally after being acquired, and eventually used her a mirror to become closer to a real person. Quite similar on how the orphan Tails did look up to Sonic to be "someone", using him as a mirror until he's got his own personality as soon as his Adventure character arc ended. Nicole didn't had this same treatment though, being just as a bland character as Sally was, which leads me to believe she copycat her friend entirely. Not her fault thought, as a child is prone to do these kind of things.

The message I get from this is quite awkward, as there is no such thing as true friendship. Like, you are choosing the person who taught you how to live to be your soulmate... Not sure how to use the right words here, but I guess you'll get where I'm getting at. I have childhood friends that are kinda like this, as I consider them my siblings despite no blood relation. They taught me even the most stupid things like how to cut a bread to place butter, to a decade later giving me advices on how to act in a job interview.

I think people claiming Sally was Nicole's basis for wanting to become more "Human" are thinking entirely of Pre-Reboot comics.

Post-Reboot from what we saw Sally had little to nothing to do with Nicole's growth at all. Nicole was already a complicated evolving AI before she was given to Sally and years of adventures where what made Nicole want to really truly become a person.

It's not like Pre-Reboot where she became more "human" after stupid body swapping antics. It's made clear that Nicole is an Evolving sentient creation right from the get go.

[Korke]

Just now, SBR2 said:

I think people claiming Sally was Nicole's basis for wanting to become more "Human" are thinking entirely of Pre-Reboot comics.

Post-Reboot from what we saw Sally had little to nothing to do with Nicole's growth at all. Nicole was already a complicated evolving AI before she was given to Sally and years of adventures where what made Nicole want to really truly become a person.

It's not like Pre-Reboot where she became more "human" after stupid body swapping antics. It's made clear that Nicole is an Evolving sentient creation right from the get go.

I don't know if the there are any rules in the forum about posting scans from the internet, but anyway, if you revisit the few panels from Spark of Life that are from the past, you will notice that her first days she barely had any intelligence at all - in her first years after being given to Sally, she obtained enough to act like a VI. More time later, she would (probably? again, the lack of time-stamps doesn't us help at all) obtain her first traces of sentience a few time after the creation of the FF's, mostly due to be exposed to Sally's emotional issues during the hard life as a guerilla.

So, yeah, those are enough evidences to me to get that POV I've mentioned before, despite Spark of Life being a poor arc after all.