Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yeah, that's true, but again she wasn't in the best situation in both cases. You can't expect a character to be put in a disadvantage and handle things perfectly--that's a good way to writing a Mary Sue in that kind of matter, and would make the conflict and tensions look absolutely trivial.

[RedFox99]

1 minute ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Yeah, that's true, but again she wasn't in the best situation in both cases. You can't expect a character to be put in a disadvantage and handle things perfectly--that's a good way to writing a Mary Sue in that kind of matter, and would make the conflict and tensions look absolutely trivial.

Yeah I guess. Most likely it seemed like she was hit with the Worf Effect.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

Or that the Sonic cast is mostly made up of glass cannons.

[NikoS]

well, i really like it, the story, the characterization, Captain Metal, also if it was not for it we wouldn't even see blaze at all post-SGW-wise

and

nuff said

[RedFox99]

Did things really get formulaic after the WU crossover? It seems like the quality went down a bit after that arc.

[Big Panda]

That image made me realise: poor Tracey never had any of his written work reprinted in full graphic novel form. Even more so since both were next in line before getting canned.

[RedFox99]

18 minutes ago, Ernest-Panda said:

That image made me realise: poor Tracey never had any of his written work reprinted in full graphic novel form. Even more so since both were next in line before getting canned.

What stories did he write?

[BlueSky]

On 17.11.2017 at 12:12 AM, Ernest-Panda said:

Ian's playing co-writer with Mark Waid again, this time on Archie.

Didn't he say at one (in BumbleKast or something) point something about that old-style Archie having such a humour it was hard for him to get it to work with?

I suppose that isn't such a large problem with the new Archie though.

...

And well, if Blaze wouldn't have been restrained, the story would've been awfully short with the setting the said story had.

[Big Panda]

8 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

What stories did he write?

Babylon Rising, which would've been the next arc to be reprinted in the original Universe GN series before said series got canned, and Pirate Plunder Panic, which would've kicked off the Universe Sagas series that never even got off the ground.

[RedFox99]

40 minutes ago, BlueSky said:

And well, if Blaze wouldn't have been restrained, the story would've been awfully short with the setting the said story had.

I guess you have a point. 

1 minute ago, Ernest-Panda said:

Babylon Rising, which was the next arc to be reprinted in the original Universe GN series before it got canned, and Pirate Plunder Panic, which would've kicked off the Universe Sagas series which never even got off the ground.

What happened during that first arc?

[DabigRG]

3 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

 

What happened during that first arc?

It was a stealth adaptation of Sonic Riders Zero Gravity.

The Rogues go to the Gigan Rocks looking for answers and fight Angelus(The Babylon Guardian) to get the Gravity Cube. The Battle Bird Armada sense its energy and arrive just in time to engage them as they're leaving. BattleLord Kukku comes down and curbstomps the Rogues into working with them to find Babylon Garden, which was actually under New Mobotropilis.

The Babylon Rogues and the Battle Bird Armada invade New Mobotropolis and fight off Sonic, Tails, and Naugus before blowing a hole into the ground to access Babylon Garden. There, the Babylon Rogues, Speedy, and Sonic find the robot controlling the Gardens control room and it explains its intentions after stealing the cube from Jet: after ADAM and Nicole used some of it's remaining energy for their own purposes, it needed the Cube to both power itself back up and make the Garden return to space since it's actually a spaceship. Sonic destroys the Cube as payback for the Birds attacking his home, leaving the Roggues to take off with their knowledge of their origins and the Battle Bird Armada to struggle to recover since it hooked itself to the Garden when it took off.

 

 

[Dr. Detective]

I've never typically been one to get angry when a character I like is beaten or defeated. I'm  all for it unless it's done for the sake of punishing a character you don't like and it's written in a way that makes it obvious that's what you're doing. 

No, what I tend to get bothered by is when a character isn't challenged enough or they win far too easily. That was my issue with a lot of the stories I read getting into the books at around my time picking them up. Not all but a good amount. Mostly when it came to Sonic Universe.

[Big Panda]

And so the inevitable has finally happened: the Sonic/Mega Man section has vanished from the Archie Shop and there is no trace of any of their products anywhere on the shop.

Sonic has also been removed from the Archie Comics App, but Mega Man hasn't, surprisingly enough. Fortunately I can still access the issues I purchased via the app, but there's no way to purchase more.

[RedFox99]

3 minutes ago, Ernest the Snowpanda said:

And so the inevitable has finally happened: the Sonic/Mega Man section has vanished from the Archie Shop and there is no trace of any of their products anywhere on the shop.

Sonic has also been removed from the Archie Comics App, but Mega Man hasn't, surprisingly enough. Fortunately I can still access the issues I purchased via the app, but there's no way to purchase more.

Maybe on Amazon app.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

16 minutes ago, Ernest the Snowpanda said:

And so the inevitable has finally happened: the Sonic/Mega Man section has vanished from the Archie Shop and there is no trace of any of their products anywhere on the shop.

Sonic has also been removed from the Archie Comics App, but Mega Man hasn't, surprisingly enough. Fortunately I can still access the issues I purchased via the app, but there's no way to purchase more.

Well this sucks. I'm missing massive chunks of Archie Sonic, and I was planning to pick up the post 200 issues at some point or another on the app.

And in yet a final middle finger and example of poor management from Archie, they couldn't even give due notice when the issues would be gone so people could know when their final chance to buy them would be.

[Big Panda]

OH WAIT. I've discovered a loophole that lets you continue to buy issues! When looking at the info page of one of the issues in your collection, the link toward the bottom that lets you see all other available issues in that series still works.

[Sean]

Sonic and Mega Man are both still on Comixology. Grab whatever issues you want while you can. The best part is that they provide DRM-free downloads.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 minute ago, Ernest the Snowpanda said:

OH WAIT. I've discovered a loophole that lets you continue to buy issues! When looking at the info page of one of the issues in your collection, the link toward the bottom that lets you see all other available issues in that series still works.

Strangely enough, using the search function, you can still find Worlds Collide issues and even the Sabrina crossover no problem.

[Big Panda]

The Mega Man issues from WC/U issues are still there, yes.

[DabigRG]

5 hours ago, Ernest the Snowpanda said:

OH WAIT. I've discovered a loophole that lets you continue to buy issues! When looking at the info page of one of the issues in your collection, the link toward the bottom that lets you see all other available issues in that series still works.

Oh, well that sucks.

5 hours ago, Ryannumber1Santa said:

Strangely enough, using the search function, you can still find even the Sabrina crossover no problem.

...Why?

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Update on the digital issues - All of them along with all of the graphic novels are still buyable through the kindle store on Amazon.

[Dash Speed]

On 11/17/2017 at 3:41 PM, Conquering Slay-bell Storm said:

I gotta be frank, whenever people say they dislike how Blaze was presented in PPP, it tells me two things:

1) They don't understand the meaning of Context and Narrative 

2) They don't know anything about Blaze's character

And I say this because nothing in that arc had anything wrong with Blaze as a character in that arc. She was portrayed as the regal responsible princess who had fiery, hotheaded moments when something set her off. Is that not how she is in the games?

People get upset with Blaze getting taken out here almost in a similar manner that Shadow fanboys get upset when someone manages to best their favorite character. But this is a special case for Blaze here because this ignores two things about how she was written and handled:

1) She's the biggest threat to the enemy--That can't be emphasized enough because the context in the story made it clear that none of them were willing to go up to Blaze head-on, even when she was on their ship and had a number advantage. She essentially snuck into enemy territory, got busted and surrendered, and yet none of the enemy crew rushed to subdue her until she was pissed off and not thinking clearly enough where they could get the drop on her. Capt Metal and his crew had knowledge of Blaze and they planned accordingly, mostly by taking advantage of the current situation when they could and other parts being prepared. In essence, none of them wanted to fight her, hence why Metal went for an ultimatum of forcing Blaze's surrender when she got onboard his ship or he'd kill her friends (which he proceeded to do anyway). And who the hell wouldn't be pissed beyond reason when their friends supposedly get murder when you wanted to avoid risking their lives? It was that moment when Blaze lost her cool that gave the emeny a moment to take advantage of to subdue her--she focused her rage on Metal, the leader, and forgot about the other crew that managed to knock her out. Yes, Blaze is one of the hard hitters of the series, but it's like people don't expect her to have any flaws that can be taken advantage of or for her to make lapses in judgment that would make her vulnerable.

2) The next thing that seems to be overlooked is that Blaze, while captive, wasn't so passive that she was intentionally weakened by the writers. She was still powerful, so the writers wrote the opposition to be clever enough to counter her and keep her from retailing in a way that would cost her. Not just with the histage situation above, but in locking her into something her fire powers would take a while to get her out of. Even then, Blaze threatened to just blast them through the bars, and only kept from doing so because they prepared for that--in spite of that, Blaze restrained herself until she saw a better opportunity to break out and strike back.

Now I can understand that Blaze wasn't able to make as many appearances, that much can't be disputed. But how Blaze was handled in her defeat was no different to how it was when Eggman handed Super Sonic his ass in the opening of Unleashed.

Feel free to elaborate if I'm off the mark and misreading things, but the complaints against Blaze here come across more like a classic case of "I don't like when a character I like is put in a disadvantage or loses in a fight" and ignoring that she still won at the end of the matter. Matter of fact, it no different to how they've handled other characters: even Shadow has been bested and countered, in ways even more harshly than Blaze.

Ian nerfs Shadow on purpose to make other characters seem cool and skilled as Shadow and Sonic, but it's akin to writing a fanfiction and suddenly making Shadow so weak and ooc in battle, he can get hit by Amy Rose or get floored by characters he's faster than. Thank god the comics aren't cannon, Ian has a boner for making Shadow a complete joke and Eggman look like a god. The comic made Shadow a grunt to Rouge and highly brash and impulsive in battle against anyone he's faced. Shadow isn't just a power house, he's a near genius when is comes to battle and the comic and cartoon failed to play to his cunning and deductive side in battle making him rush things without a thought. The only fight he used his smarts like in the games/anime is against Eclipse and ADAM, with help no less. Shadow is a able to come up with plans on the fly by himself and lead Team Dark, but Ian made Shadow the angsty loose cannon like Knuckles.

 

The fact the comics never explored Shadow's true power and never closed with Shadow closing the gap between Sonic and Knuckles rediculous feats in the entire series shows that this comic is worthless to me if Shadow doesn't have any consistancy in showcasing his well known reputation as the ultimate lifeform, he got more character development but his fights and abilites failed to deliver the hype pre and post reboot, it made the character ultimate a minor character compared to Sonic and Knuckles major presense in the series which I anticipated for Shadow to be the third major player in the series on par on Sonic's level of power and character importance.

[MetalSkulkBane]

45 minutes ago, Dash Speed said:

Ian nerfs Shadow on purpose to make other characters seem cool and skilled as Shadow and Sonic, but it's akin to writing a fanfiction and suddenly making Shadow so weak and ooc in battle, he can get hit by Amy Rose or get floored by characters he's faster than. Thank god the comics aren't cannon, Ian has a boner for making Shadow a complete joke and Eggman look like a god. The comic made Shadow a grunt to Rouge and highly brash and impulsive in battle against anyone he's faced. Shadow isn't just a power house, he's a near genius when is comes to battle and the comic and cartoon failed to play to his cunning and deductive side in battle making him rush things without a thought. The only fight he used his smarts like in the games/anime is against Eclipse and ADAM, with help no less. Shadow is a able to come up with plans on the fly by himself and lead Team Dark, but Ian made Shadow the angsty loose cannon like Knuckles.

Okay, when Shadow was EVER shown to be a genius? In his whole career I remember one single time he used 'strategy', in Sonic X against giant Metarex (SA2 doesn't count, this was Gerald's scheme, not his). Usually his power and determination are good enough to win a day.

I'm big fan of Shadow and I do feel like Flynn made him just tiiiiiiny bit a punching bag (or worf to use TV Tropes langue) for first several issues (vs Scourge, Adam, Enerjack, Super Scourge). But I don't think he ever lost unfairly.

I mean, come one, you're complaining Amy hit him? He got hit TWICE hit through whole Treasure Team Tango. What would  you want to happen? For hammer to break at his head, with Shadow completely unfazed by it, looking all bad ass and dignified?

Shadow is  one of strongest of heroes (possible the strongest) but in Sonic Heroes team Chaotix can fight Team Dark, so I guess Shadow isn't automatic win button.

[DabigRG]

On 12/10/2017 at 2:59 PM, Dash Speed said:

Ian nerfs Shadow on purpose to make other characters seem cool and skilled as Shadow and Sonic, but it's akin to writing a fanfiction and suddenly making Shadow so weak and ooc in battle, he can get hit by Amy Rose or get floored by characters he's faster than. Thank god the comics aren't cannon, Ian has a boner for making Shadow a complete joke and Eggman look like a god. The comic made Shadow a grunt to Rouge and highly brash and impulsive in battle against anyone he's faced. Shadow isn't just a power house, he's a near genius when is comes to battle and the comic and cartoon failed to play to his cunning and deductive side in battle making him rush things without a thought. The only fight he used his smarts like in the games/anime is against Eclipse and ADAM, with help no less. Shadow is a able to come up with plans on the fly by himself and lead Team Dark, but Ian made Shadow the angsty loose cannon like Knuckles.

 

The fact the comics never explored Shadow's true power and never closed with Shadow closing the gap between Sonic and Knuckles rediculous feats in the entire series shows that this comic is worthless to me if Shadow doesn't have any consistancy in showcasing his well known reputation as the ultimate lifeform, he got more character development but his fights and abilites failed to deliver the hype pre and post reboot, it made the character ultimate a minor character compared to Sonic and Knuckles major presense in the series which I anticipated for Shadow to be the third major player in the series on par on Sonic's level of power and character importance.

For a second there, I thought you were that Shadowlax guy.

 

To be fair, Shadow was supposed to be Sonic's equal in almost every way, the exception being his Chaos powers. And while I agree that he sometimes comes off as being smarter or at least more reflective, he's also supposed to be somewhat cocky and arrogant himself.

 

So basically, the problem is that he ended up becoming somewhat overpowered and near infallible over time and recent outings for him have either gone out of their way to scale him back for the sake of tension or simply been trying bring him back a little closer to his roots.

[Sega DogTagz]

36 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

So basically, the problem is that he ended up becoming somewhat overpowered and near infallible over time and recent outings for him have either gone out of their way to scale him back for the sake of tension or simply been trying bring him back a little closer to his roots.

I wouldn't even go as that far. Across all media Shadow is always presented as being faster (being on par with Sonic) and stronger than any of his opposition. He's never had to demonstrate a tactical flare or anything resembling something akin to strategy because his brute force and overwhelming advantages allowed him to essentially tank his way though a fight.

So enter the comics. When you throw someone at him that can't be overpowered in that fashion (Enerjak) or who was specifically designed to counter his strengths (Eclipse), Shadow doesn't have a good response for that. He would have to take a step back, assess the situation and change his approach if he wanted to come back stronger and win. That is not the writer picking on Shadow - he did the same thing to Sonic many times over. The Egg Beater, several incarnations of Metal Sonic, they were introduced to counter Sonic and they did their job. It wasn't until Sonic took a step back from himself (and developed a bit in the process) that he was able to overcome these threats. Shadow is no different.