Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Silvereyes]

2 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Eh, a little something like that, though that wouldn't really happen for a long while.

Essentially.

I should go ahead and note that I've never had much of an issue with Sally myself, with the complaints against her character coming off as either a product of the furry soap opera stuff or something of a surprise when they were serious(aka, several of months ago, really), but I will admit that she benefited the most from both the reboot and Mr. Flynn taking over.

There's at least one more down the road that you may or may not have seen the introduction of by now.

I don't mind Sally either, I like her in the comic. Not my favourite character but I have no problems with her aside from the soap opera stuff that is given to her.

Oh dear, not sure I've seen the next love triangle yet. At the current moment, Sally and Sonic are just pissed at each other, as well as Bunnie and Antoine. This should be interesting.

[DabigRG]

5 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

The thing with Sally was that Ian tried making flaws for her (like her bad cooking skills) that really weren't flaws per say rather than explore how she would act like she what was best for others. Not to talk trash about him, but it felt like he only scratched the surface of issues people had with her.

So you looking less of some quirkiness/humorousness in her character so much as for addressing character flaws and underlying fanbase issues for drama?

5 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

 

Even at that I think Sally and Bunnie had plenty openings for quirks in the Satam cartoon and early comics, even if they weren't really grasped much. Sally could be no-nonsense and meticulous to the point of being a grouchy control freak while Bunnie being a cowgirl could easily be given a plucky abrasive side. They were archetypes that have been fleshed out well in other cartoons and franchises to be entertaining on their own (eg. Twilight Sparkle and Applejack).

You know, it's funny that you mention them considering Twilight is kind of the voice I hear from New252!Sally. Don't remember with Bunnie, although it's very likely that Applejack would've been the channel.

I suppose they technically could've had Sally be a little hardassed on occasion, though that may also risk overlap with Rotor. And honestly, I'm glad they used the reboot to drain much of the seriousness and moodiness from Sally.

4 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

To simplify, no one likes a designated hero.

Um...Designated hero in what sense?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

I know Bunnie never exactly got much focus on her alone compared to the other Freedom Fighters, but was she really like that in the reboot? 

Can’t remember all that happened post-reboot off the top of my head, but I do remember her charging at Cassia with fury over her cybernetics and how she never asked for them despite their benefits, for what that was worth.

1 hour ago, SilentlyVocal said:

Forgive me for being vague, my memory of the comic as a whole is rather hazy (haven't touched it in quite some time).
If I do remember correctly, I think the bit of Sonic's characterization that really made me cringe the hardest was...something along those lines? I seem to definitely remember Tails punching him. I could just never picture Sonic as being antagonistic in any regard to Tails especially. I get that Archie played up feuds a lot, but that just felt...ugly.

Yeah, that was House of Cards. It’s unanimously agreed that Sonic was at his most assholish there, but while he could be abrasive he was hardly like that throughout most of the comics and was friendly majority of the time.

The Sonic you described seemed closer to Fleetway Sonic in having a mean attitude.

[NezumiVA]

2 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Yeah, that was House of Cards. It’s unanimously agreed that Sonic was at his most assholish there, but while he could be abrasive he was hardly like that throughout most of the comics and was friendly majority of the time.

The Sonic you described seemed closer to Fleetway Sonic in having a mean attitude.

Yeah, maybe my impression of him just seemed to catch on at the wrong time in terms of what stuck with me, lol.
Fleetway Sonic has definitely been a characterization I've never been particularly fond of, though I do like the concept of Super Sonic explored in that continuity...
But that's a different topic discussion entirely.

[DabigRG]

 

44 minutes ago, silvereye27 said:

 

Oh dear, not sure I've seen the next love triangle yet. At the current moment, Sally and Sonic are just pissed at each other, as well as Bunnie and Antoine. This should be interesting.

Oh yeah, you still got a good ways to go. As in Ian Flynn era ways to go.

With that said, you've definitely long since seen the character a couple of times by now, so hopefully when it happens, it goes over coincidingly well with that character's development, as was apparently the general case.

6 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Can’t remember all that happened post-reboot off the top of my head, but I do remember her charging at Cassia with fury over her cybernetics and how she never asked for them despite their benefits, for what that was worth.

 

Oh yeah, that. Though to be fair in that instance, her robotic parts were always a source of lament for her, so I'm not sure whether that counts.

[Silvereyes]

2 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

 

Oh yeah, you still got a good ways to go. As in Ian Flynn era ways to go.

With that said, you've definitely long since seen the character a couple of times by now, so hopefully when it happens, it goes over coincidingly well with that character's development, as was apparently the general case.

I'm at #145. I'm actually trying not to read too much because I want to talk about the stuff I have read before I forget all of it. But you have certainly intrigued me with this love triangle issue.

Although mind you, in issue #144, we get a B story where it turns out Sally has decided to help the Knothole community... by posing as a love advice columnist. Not exactly her finest moment. Also it's sad seeing Bunnie crying, for whatever reason it's the only romance I actually very mildly care about.

[DabigRG]

Btw, what do you think of Mina's arc, Hope, Mecha/"M," ADAM, and Fiona?

4 minutes ago, silvereye27 said:

I'm at #145. I'm actually trying not to read too much because I want to talk about the stuff I have read before I forget all of it. But you have certainly intrigued me with this love triangle issue.

 

Oh.

Well, it's not really a love triangle thing so much as a potential budding romance. So it's really more of something that kinda happens on the side that people surprising liked even though it didn't really have that much going on with it.

 

4 minutes ago, silvereye27 said:

Although mind you, in issue #144, we get a B story where it turns out Sally has decided to help the Knothole community... by posing as a love advice columnist. Not exactly her finest moment. Also it's sad seeing Bunnie crying, for whatever reason it's the only romance I actually very mildly care about.

Oh yeah, I remember hearing of that--Dear Ally, as Jon Gray referenced in an interview.

Don't actually remember ever reading it, though.

[Silvereyes]

1 minute ago, DabigRG said:

Oh.

Well, it's not really a love triangle thing so much as a potential budding romance. So it's really more of something that kinda happens on the side that people surprising liked even though it didn't really have that much going on with it.

 

Oh yeah, I remember hearing of that--Dear Ally, as Jon Gray referenced in an interview.

Don't actually remember ever reading it, though.

I'm very curious now. Will be interesting to see when that turns up.

Yeah, Dear Aly, like I say it's in issue #144 if you want to read about Bunnie, Mina and Amy sending letters to Sally about their love problems.

10 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Btw, what do you think of Mina's arc, Hope, Mecha/"M," ADAM, and Fiona?

I don't think I've reached Mina's arc, at the moment she's currently a singer and dating her manager. Fiona hasn't really popped up yet, but oddly enough I knew of her from somewhere a while back. She has something to do with Tails?

M and ADAM have made appareances. They're interesting as sidekicks to Eggman, M seems like she was inspired by Terminator 3.

[E-122-Psi]

44 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

I suppose they technically could've had Sally be a little hardassed on occasion, though that may also risk overlap with Rotor. And honestly, I'm glad they used the reboot to drain much of the seriousness and moodiness from Sally.

Um...Designated hero in what sense?

Rotor never really came off as hard-assed to me, in fact in the cartoon he almost came off a bit too laid back for his own good (besides with Antoine occasionally who in fairness pissed off everyone).

Designated hero is what it says on the tin, the guy that's designated the hero even if they don't exactly act like one.

29 minutes ago, SilentlyVocal said:

Yeah, maybe my impression of him just seemed to catch on at the wrong time in terms of what stuck with me, lol.
Fleetway Sonic has definitely been a characterization I've never been particularly fond of, though I do like the concept of Super Sonic explored in that continuity...
But that's a different topic discussion entirely.

Maybe it's the fact Fleetway Sonic, while a complete ass, seemed to be intentionally and openly so, he thought he was awesome, but I don't reckon he or the writers thought he was some paragon of virtue, while Archie Sonic seemed a little bit more over assured he was always in the right and everyone who challenged him was either a jerk, or a nag like Sally. House of Cards was that reaching boiling point. It didn't help that Archie Sonic was combined with the games Sonic, who is known for being playfully smarmy of the highest order.

As I mentioned with Sally, self righteousness is a flaw you need to handle VERY gingerly. Done wrong it's one of the most odious traits you can give a character.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

12 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

 

Designated hero is what it says on the tin, the guy that's designated the hero even if they don't exactly act like one.

It’s actually a character in a story who, despite being presented as heroic, is actually a lazy doormat at best and an arguable villain at worst.

Which is definitely not what Sally was even at her worst.

[Sonic Fan J]

Sally does unfortunately though share the trait of being perceived in an above reproach way pre-reboot though. It's one of the reasons I liked her a lot more after the reboot when she felt more like a member of the team in almost a familial way instead of being this pedestal raised bastion of false pretenses that she came across at her worst to me. But as I only really started following the comics loosely before the reboot though I could just be misinterpreting some of her presentation before that point.

[DabigRG]

27 minutes ago, silvereye27 said:

I don't think I've reached Mina's arc, at the moment she's currently a singer and dating her manager.

Fiona hasn't really popped up yet, but oddly enough I knew of her from somewhere a while back.

She has something to do with Tails?

M and ADAM have made appareances. They're interesting as sidekicks to Eggman, M seems like she was inspired by Terminator 3.

Gonna do this in one spurt

1. I meant before she became a professional singer. From introduction up to whenever she stopped getting such prominent appearances.
2. She was actually in the milestone with the Xorda for a panel or two and debuted in the Knuckles comic in the Mighty backup story. I suggest eventually buffing back up on that for a little context.
3. Technically, there was a story that took place either during or before the Tails Miniseries where he meant an identical, but younger female fox also named Fiona on an island. Long story short, it was a trap made by Robotnik. There is indeed some relevance to the real Fiona going forward.
4. I'm honestly kinda curious to see if SEGA/Mr.Flynn could've made them work with the more mainstream things. And yes, I'm pretty sure she was meant to have a Terminator vibe to her.

17 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

Rotor never really came off as hard-assed to me, in fact in the cartoon he almost came off a bit too laid back for his own good (besides with Antoine occasionally who in fairness pissed off everyone).

I was specifically talking about the New252 versions, where Rotor had a bigger picture mindset that would occasionally cause him some annoyance with the way Sally chose to do things.

[Silvereyes]

6 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Gonna do this in one spurt

1. I meant before she became a professional singer. From introduction up to whenever she stopped getting such prominent appearances.
2. She was actually in the milestone with the Xorda for a panel or two and debuted in the Knuckles comic in the Mighty backup story. I suggest eventually buffing back up on that for a little context.
3. Technically, there was a story that took place either during or before the Tails Miniseries where he meant an identical, but younger female fox also named Fiona on an island. Long story short, it was a trap made by Robotnik. There is indeed some relevance to the real Fiona going forward.
4. I'm honestly kinda curious to see if SEGA/Mr.Flynn could've made them work with the more mainstream things. And yes, I'm pretty sure she was meant to have a Terminator vibe to her.

1. Oh right, sorry I've been tired. I like Mina alot, I think her having Sonic's speed is actually an interesting idea, especially when they toyed with the idea of Sonic training her. I think her wanting to be a FF and then deciding it isn't for her makes sense. I think her love triangle with Sonic is OK, not really something I think the comic needs, especially when she kisses Sonic, Sally sees and so she winds up thinking Sonic loves Mina for lord knows how long and other love triangle cliches. It's kinda sad she gets shot trying to defend Sally from Nack but at least she doesn't die, unlike other characters in this comic. So yeah, I like Mina.

2 & 3. I completely forgot, you're right. I do remember now, interesting to see what she is going to do now after such a long absence. Interested to see what this Fiona will be doing in the future.

[E-122-Psi]

8 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

It’s actually a character in a story who, despite being presented as heroic, is actually a lazy doormat at best and an arguable villain at worst.

Which is definitely not what Sally was even at her worst.

That feels like an over specification. The rule of Designated Hero around the site at least seemed to be the hero being present as the clear good guy, in spite of their approach not making them such (e.g. being represented as the reasonable one in an argument, when they were just as abrasive or outright started it in the first place, with their opposition's valid points against them being ignored or swept under the rug). Granted tropes do get contrived and abused a lot.

8 hours ago, Sonic Fan J said:

Sally does unfortunately though share the trait of being perceived in an above reproach way pre-reboot though. It's one of the reasons I liked her a lot more after the reboot when she felt more like a member of the team in almost a familial way instead of being this pedestal raised bastion of false pretenses that she came across at her worst to me. But as I only really started following the comics loosely before the reboot though I could just be misinterpreting some of her presentation before that point.

Even post-reboot she had moments that kinda perceived her as being the designated sane one, again the Spark of Life arc cutting people down to size after implying she was in the wrong and directly connecting it to being a hypocrite towards her (something that NEVER EVER happened the billion times Sally was reckless after chiding Sonic). They did TRY to make her more fallible, but it was in still a very forced way, and it still had that notion you were meant to see it more as dirty tactics by Eggman, compared to when say, Sonic is overconfident or Knuckles loses his temper, traits that everyone in universe tends to be aware and annoyed by.

I found it wasted potential they didn't focus on her visible overprotective, almost patronising treatment of Cream early on for example, that could have been a bigger pivot when she ended up saving her from one of her screw ups. Sort of a 'not seeing the forest for the trees' approach from the writers to me.

[DabigRG]

29 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

 

Even post-reboot she had moments that kinda perceived her as being the designated sane one, again the Spark of Life arc cutting people down to size after implying she was in the wrong and directly connecting it to being a hypocrite towards her (something that NEVER EVER happened the billion times Sally was reckless after chiding Sonic).

Okay, I really need to just buckle down and get to that arc because I have no idea what you could be referencing there, much less to that degree.

31 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

. They did TRY to make her more fallible, but it was in still a very forced way, and it still had that notion you were meant to see it more as dirty tactics by Eggman,

Okay, when is this?

33 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

I found it wasted potential they didn't focus on her visible overprotective, almost patronising treatment of Cream early on for example, that could have been a bigger pivot when she ended up saving her from one of her screw ups. Sort of a 'not seeing the forest for the trees' approach from the writers to me.

Okay, this is what I briefly brought up on the previous page.

Cause you're right: That was one of the few long-term bits of character-driven plot and focus that Sally had individually at the time. Even better, it was convenient, yet organic way of incorporating SEGA's mandates regarding Cream in a way that gave both something to do character-wise.

Unfortunately, I truly feel like this little subplot was a victim of pacing and spacing issues due to not so much the space left in Control(although that is something of a minor, but noteworthy factoid), but rather World's Unite postponing things and indirectly compacting the issue of people feeling the Unleashed Arc was going on too long at the time. And because of that, we had a story hinging on the Freedom Fighters narrowly escaping a wipeout thanks to Cream taking the initiative after being told to hang back  by Sally, followed by a moment in a later story or two where Cream's frustration with being left out is given a reassurance by Rotor on the grounds that Dark Gaia Monsters are just a little too dangerous, only for World's Unite to once again have her left out of a big fanservicey battle. And then, after that crossover is over and more stories go by without Cream showing up, we suddenly get the Dulcy and Chun-Nan story, which starts with Cream tagging with Sally and Antoine in following a fight with Silver Sonic with no fanfare or more importantly, no transition.

Any in-universe point of contention and/or proper resolution on the matter is ultimately left offscreen, which unfortunately deprives Sally of any directly spotlighted adjustment of her stance on something and makes the subplot feel anticlimactic, never mind the frustration some felt about the whole thing just kinda being awkwardly rendered moot.

[E-122-Psi]

28 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Okay, I really need to just buckle down and get to that arc because I have no idea what you could be referencing there, much less to that degree.

It's not high scale, but the fact someone called out Sally for being reckless and then later on in the story does the same thing and openly apologises and admits to her that it's easier to preach than practice. Seriously Sally should have undergone that stance at least once in the comics run, she needed that message WAY more than NICOLE, not for it to be delivered FROM her, especially since so many of her compressed vice moments stem from being as reckless, something she nags Sonic ceaselessly over.

I get Sally was supposed to be a bit differently characterised post-reboot, but seriously, they didn't think that would clash badly with her past?

I remember there was lost potential with the Monkey Khan arc as well, with her acting as soother to Khan's temper and then she herself loses it against Fiona. This could have been a good 'not so different' moment when she could relate to Khan's frustrations after suffering a role reversal, but no, everyone just tells her she was awesome for how she handled it.

28 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Okay, when is this?

The aforementioned Control arc for one, which again just felt like a subdued compressed vice moment with Sally taking a risk and falling for an Eggman trap. Of course they pile on the angst and everyone feels super bad for Sally in the story and tells her it's not her fault. Not that I'm saying they should be tearing into her or anything but it still falls into the same formula as pre-reboot's rather 'meh' attempts to make Sally 'flawed'.

[Your Vest Friend]

Doesn't help that it totally was her fault. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

4 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

That feels like an over specification. The rule of Designated Hero around the site at least seemed to be the hero being present as the clear good guy, in spite of their approach not making them such (e.g. being represented as the reasonable one in an argument, when they were just as abrasive or outright started it in the first place, with their opposition's valid points against them being ignored or swept under the rug). Granted tropes do get contrived and abused a lot.

Well that’s the clear cut definition on the term. Sally may have had faults that were turned around and seen as her in the right, but she was still a heroic character in the true sense of the word and not a designated one.

Why you seem to be defining is something along the lines of (an equally misused and abused term of) a Mary Sue.

[DabigRG]

10 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

 openly apologises and admits to her that it's easier to preach than practice.

Uh, was Sally saying that or Nicole? You kinda omitted a name there.

10 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

I remember there was lost potential with the Monkey Khan arc as well, with her acting as soother to Khan's temper and then she herself loses it against Fiona. This could have been a good 'not so different' moment when she could relate to Khan's frustrations after suffering a role reversal, but no, everyone just tells her she was awesome for how she handled it.

 

See, funnily enough, I actually remember that scene clear enough and I'm pretty sure that's one of those cases where the moment was more on Fiona trying to play with Tails' feelings rather than anything to do with Sally(or Khan for that matter) outside of her being the one to put a stop to it--physically. Not sure what that says about the post reboot stuff, though.

I guess it could've been brought back up in a reflective way, though.

10 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

 

The aforementioned Control arc for one, which again just felt like a subdued compressed vice moment with Sally taking a risk and falling for an Eggman trap. Of course they pile on the angst and everyone feels super bad for Sally in the story and tells her it's not her fault. Not that I'm saying they should be tearing into her or anything but it still falls into the same formula as pre-reboot's rather 'meh' attempts to make Sally 'flawed'.

Huh. Kay.

[NezumiVA]

So I've started rereading the comic from the near start just out of some...mild curiosity. 'Bout at Issue 52 now, curious to see how this molds my opinions and impressions considering it's a more or less finished product now (despite a cancellation being the reason) and knowing the history of writers, incidents with staff, and certain arcs/dips in quality. I'm excited to perhaps give a more general impression of my thoughts once I've finished up.

[NiTROACTiVE]

Not too long ago, Ian made this BumbleKast video on public perception. Starting around 37:09, he and Kyle Crouse discussed how people alleged that Ian wanted to get rid of the Freedom Fighters, and Ian said he "hated" the Freedom Fighters as to why the next Sonic Universe story arc was devoted to them before the Archie Sonic comics were cancelled. So it pretty much shows that Ian Flynn never really wanted to get rid of them, as I don't understand why people alleged such a thing, as well as where it started.

Here's the full podcast:

 

[DabigRG]

28 minutes ago, NiTROACTiVE said:

Not too long ago, Ian made this BumbleKast video on public perception. Starting around 37:09, he and Kyle Crouse discussed how people alleged that Ian wanted to get rid of the Freedom Fighters, and Ian said he "hated" the Freedom Fighters as to why the next Sonic Universe story arc was devoted to them before the Archie Sonic comics were cancelled. So it pretty much shows that Ian Flynn never really wanted to get rid of them, as I don't understand why people alleged such a thing, as well as where it started.

Here's the full podcast:

 

Don'cha just love how people will constantly hound and discredit creators for one thing, only to blitheringly change their tune as soon as those things are threatened by outside criteria?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I’m wondering how that even became a thing, because if that was true 1) they wouldn’t have redesigned the FF and kept them around, 2) they would have dropped them at the first opportunity, and 3) perhaps the biggest, Ian and his team wouldn’t have fought to keep them around.

The people who entertained that were probably either delusional or trolls who knew what they were saying was BS, because anyone who’s followed the comic and followed what Ian’s been saying could tell that none of those claims even remotely add up to the reality of things.

[Dash Speed]

On 6/2/2018 at 10:34 PM, Sega DogTagz said:

Archie did just that right at the end of their run, and I think the result is very widely regarded as a great character pairing around here. It was that clash of ideology, Shadow's do whatever is necessary single mindedness and Knuckles stubborn moral duty clashed to create an action packed, thematically heavy confrontation that served to re-enforce both Knuckles and Shadow and what the two were all about. If anything, Shadow comes out of that pairing as more intimidating then when he came in - and Knuckles gains more respect for fighting through Shadow's metal jabs and reaffirming what he believed in.

 

A good writer can make almost any pairing work, particularly in the short term. All it takes is a little bit of foresight and a good understanding of some of the characters in play and how some of their secondary the third tier character traits can play off each other.

 

Take take that Charmy example being thrown around. Shadow would have a very short fuse for dealing with the little mites antics. I could easily see him leaving Charmy behind somewhere to intentionally scare Charmy and ultimately shock him into compliance and subservience. Poor kid would be traumatized, but he'd stick to Shadow like glue and stay in his lane while Shadow handles business. It could even backfire as a now super dependent Charmy would be too clingy - getting in the way, and being unable to help with the most simple of tasks, no matter how dire. That stays true to both their characters, and can be played for laughs while Shadow sacrifices no seriousness.

1. Okay theres many things wrong with the bolding statement, first of all Intimidating how? because intimidating means Shadow was a respected threat to fight and not jest about, Knuckles just spend holding his own, making jokes like Sonic and calling Shadow a weakling and a jerk which immediately made Shadow look like a joke instead of the scary grave figure every adaptation makes Shadow when he fights a equal opponent.

2. Knuckles directly says Sonic is more a challenge that you are to his face and still fought the guy better than we thought he'd fare. So no Archie made Shadow officially a butt monkey to even worthy opponents and directly makes light of his power. It must be because Shadow is so OP, Ian nerfed him to allow Sonic and Knuckles seem like bigger badasses than Shadow is for their fans. Worf Effect anyone. I doubt Knuckles thinks Shadow any more a big deal than Sonic does, a emo jerk that doesn't intimidate them. Out of all the Shadow, Shadow was not the most intimadating, and anyone who was afraid was supremely weaker than, Shadow pretty much stood equal but became a meme to the power houses like Sonic, Silver, Knuckles and Scourge who barely takes him seriously enough not to make fun of his angst, ego, sense of duty or his fact he's a edgy sourpuss and crybaby. Even Amy doesn't take him seriously.

Ian flanderdized Shadow by making him less of a noble demon who is indecisive and more a edgy teenager who acts like he has no idea what he's doing, Shadow's stories from the games revolve around taking charge and fighting on lethal ends in order to make his stance in achieving his goals in best interests to him, rather than the being a straight up law enforcer. In archie, Shadow followed a honorable code and lawful discipline when ordered, while Shadow is obidient and can work under others, he does so for his own benefit not because he needs someone to bark ordrs at him. Thats the entire point of his ending, he chooses what he does which is basically a wandering justice seeker like Sonic but more cruel and merciless. Knuckles had to clash with Shadow for fanservice purposes and in order for that to happen, Shadow had to be written out of character and interested in the fact GUN came first in his life and basically starting hostilities with the guardian on behalf of GUN not himself which would also be better but at least Shadow would be straight to the point and actually outsmart Knux before severely beating him down instead of mindlessly taking him on.

[Sega DogTagz]

7 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

1. Okay theres many things wrong with the bolding statement, first of all Intimidating how? because intimidating means Shadow was a respected threat to fight and not jest about, Knuckles just spend holding his own, making jokes like Sonic and calling Shadow a weakling and a jerk which immediately made Shadow look like a joke instead of the scary grave figure every adaptation makes Shadow when he fights a equal opponent.

Nobody who goes toe to toe with the signature brawler in the franchise looses intimidation factor. Shadow comes out gaining respect because he stepped into the ring with Mohammad Ali; played 1 v 1 with Jordan; *insert additional sports reference here*; and at worst came away with a draw. Shoot, Knuckles is the one who came out worse for the wear. Shadows mental game shook him so badly that he needed Amy to pull him out of his funk two issues later.

That's all on Shadow exerting his will.

Shadow is intimidating because there arn't many characters who would even risk CQC with Knux and secondly because he expertly mentally broke down Knuckles by crossing the line no other character would cross (Sonic joked about it sometimes, but Shadow was serious).

That is hardly coming across as a joke.

 

7 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

2. Knuckles directly says Sonic is more a challenge that you are to his face and still fought the guy better than we thought he'd fare.

We? You mean you. Stop projecting.

Also Sonic has plot armor in the comics that could make Goku blush. Thats not really a knock on Shadow.

 

7 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

So no Archie made Shadow officially a butt monkey to even worthy opponents and directly makes light of his power. It must be because Shadow is so OP, Ian nerfed him to allow Sonic and Knuckles seem like bigger badasses than Shadow is for their fans. Worf Effect anyone. I doubt Knuckles thinks Shadow any more a big deal than Sonic does, a emo jerk that doesn't intimidate them.

Eww. I don't even need to touch this.

 

7 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

Out of all the Shadow, Shadow was not the most intimadating, and anyone who was afraid was supremely weaker than, Shadow pretty much stood equal but became a meme to the power houses like Sonic, Silver, Knuckles and Scourge who barely takes him seriously enough not to make fun of his angst, ego, sense of duty or his fact he's a edgy sourpuss and crybaby. Even Amy doesn't take him seriously.

Your rambling is just blinding you to what is happening right in front of your face. All the taunting, joking and prodding banter is par for the course in this series - it how a large part of the cast interacts. Just because certain characters talk a big game, or tease is hardly a sign of lack of respect. Sonic is the perfect analog for this. He teases and mocks friend and foe alike, top tier threats all the way down to certain speed-bumps. He does't discriminate. Just because some characters make fun of him, shouldn't be confused for a lack of respect.

And since you want to single her out, Amy in particular shows the most respect for Shadow out of anyone in the Archie verse bar none. Even Rouge has the expectation that Shadow will fall in line and always march to the orginization's drumbeat, but in her heart of hearts Amy is the only one who trusts and believes in Shadow's sense of duty, and allegiance to his own truths above all else, and as such is the only one who plans accordingly in the Treasure Team Tango arc. She had her mind made up about Shadow before Shadow did. THAT IS SOME TRUST RIGHT THERE BRO!

Amy takes Shadows commitment to the Greater Good so seriously that she knew he would be on her side before he did.

 

7 hours ago, Dash Speed said:

Ian flanderdized Shadow by making him less of a noble demon who is indecisive and more a edgy teenager who acts like he has no idea what he's doing, Shadow's stories from the games revolve around taking charge and fighting on lethal ends in order to make his stance in achieving his goals in best interests to him, rather than the being a straight up law enforcer. In archie, Shadow followed a honorable code and lawful discipline when ordered, while Shadow is obidient and can work under others, he does so for his own benefit not because he needs someone to bark ordrs at him. Thats the entire point of his ending, he chooses what he does which is basically a wandering justice seeker like Sonic but more cruel and merciless. Knuckles had to clash with Shadow for fanservice purposes and in order for that to happen, Shadow had to be written out of character and interested in the fact GUN came first in his life and basically starting hostilities with the guardian on behalf of GUN not himself which would also be better but at least Shadow would be straight to the point and actually outsmart Knux before severely beating him down instead of mindlessly taking him on.

So did you miss the part where at the end of Treasure Team Tango where Shadow defied GUN direct orders when it became clear they would not be in the interest of the greater good? Did you miss the part in Shattered where Shadow took it upon himself to overstep his original mission by a country mile and annex the Master Emerald simply because he came to the conclusion that it would be safer in a vault? Time and time again, more often than not, Shadow defies orders and does what he thinks is best - even if the people around him arn't on board with it.

 

He's hardly the lapdog you seem to want to make him out to be. His actions sound more like that wandering justice seeker. In almost all situations he walks into a room and dictates the outcome according to what he sees and feels.