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Did Ian ever talk about where Rosie was during the reboot comics? I know that she during some of the flashbacks, but we never saw her in the present. 

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1 minute ago, RedFox99 said:

Did Ian ever talk about where Rosie was during the reboot comics? I know that she during some of the flashbacks, but we never saw her in the present. 

My guess was she was probably just keeping the children of the city safe. Anytime we saw the city was during attacks IIRC (Naugus and Tails Doll, Metal Sonic).

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34 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

Did Ian ever talk about where Rosie was during the reboot comics? I know that she during some of the flashbacks, but we never saw her in the present. 

He just said she was around.

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I've had a bit of spare time lately, so have read through Sonic X #1-#39, will read #40 when I reach the point when the Sonic comic ties into that. I think the Sonic X comic does get better around issue #15. I notice the comic actually seems to shift gears a bit, with the first few issues trying to be a bit serialised and it, I guess, following the show more with Sonic needing to use a ring power up to defeat enemies and Knuckles often being away on Angel Island. Not to mention it seems like there are tie-ins to some show episodes, like a backstory to how Eggman gets a space shuttle for the Adventure 2 adaptation (not sure why that needed to be explained but OK), or a follow up to some kind of ghost episode when ghosts possess a town and Vanilla and Chris's mom.

It seems like around issue #15-#20 the whole tying into the show is lessened, with the power rings and Knuckles being on Angel Island all the time just being casually dropped and for the better honestly as it was getting tedious. It has more focus on either 1 or 2 parters, with it basically being Eggman's scheme of the weak against Sonic, with some kind of theme. Las Vegas! Circus! Pet Show! Godzilla! Freaky Friday! I think the row of holiday issues sortof exemplifies this with a halloween 2 parter, then a Christmas, a Valentines Day and then a St Patricks Day issues.

The Christmas issue is just insane though, with Eggman pretending to be Santa Claus and demanding the world hand over Sonic otherwise he will hold their presents hostage, so the entire world turns against Sonic. It's hilarious, especially when there isn't even a moral at the end about everyone on the planet being a greedy bastard. I think my favourite issues are the two 2 parters focusing on El Gran Gordo, as Eggman pretends to be a Mexican Luchador, with Eggman being so caught up in the role he actually asks Sonic not to reveal him, and later on when he is getting beat, he decides not to give in when he sees his biggest fan, Chris, looking heartbroken. I honestly love it just for how much Eggman wants to play at being a wrestling hero despite also being an evil genius.

I don't think Sonic X is perfect. I mean, as much as I like the El Gran Gordo issues, I'm not sure there are many issues I would call great, especially when compared to the Flynn run at the same time as the X run, or even the comedic highlights of Sonic #1-#25. It's hard not to get past the issue that most of the comics follow the same pattern of Sonic having to foil Eggman's scheme, with the scheme having a theme for the issue, and it gets repetitive, something which I don't think happened with the early Sonic stories as it felt far less constrained and could do what it wanted.

Not to mention early Archie had the Freedom Fighters, and would often give them focus with Sonic on certain issues. Here, Sonic X really gives very little to anyone aside from Sonic. The Chaotix only turn up a few times and only really get the spotlight in issue #39 when Vector goes big, Tails, Knuckles and Amy always feel second fiddle to Sonic, and we never really get an issue that focuses on any of them, compared to Archie Sonic when an issue could be a Tails story or a Bunnie story etc, which again limits X because it always feels like it is just about Sonic, Chris, Eggman and his minions. For 40 issues, I think it makes the comic feel repetitive like I said and I think that hurts it.

I do think there is good stuff here in the end, but I can't say I loved it. Sure, it is better than some low points of the Penders era, but it does feel very constrained by the show's limitations. I know nothing about the background of the comic but I guess they wern't allowed to deviate much from the show? It feels like they were whether or not they were. I must admit as well, I can't help but think that I'd vastly prefer a Sonic X comic to be an actual continuation of the show, like a 4th Season essentially, rather than it being more like a companion piece where the issues happen inbetween episodes, with the comic not really having a start or a finish to it.

Oh yeah, couple other things. I found it strange how the comic decided to descend into being a PSA, with issue #39 having a lecture about aspirin, and issue #29 having these little strips in random pages about recycling.

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Also, Sonic possessed by Eggman. God help us all.

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#180-184: The epic 5 part Enerjak saga. A pretty great love letter to the Penders Knuckles stuff... a love letter that reveals that 90% of the Echidna race is dead, half the survivors are teleported to a ruin city and the other half have their technology stripped and are sold out to Dr Eggman, and Knuckles' dad dies saving the day. And despite all that, Constable Remington of all people is still alive somehow.

For a 5 parter, it is pretty simple plot wise, with Knuckles turned into Enerjak against his will thanks to Dr Finitevus who wants to purge the world after so much of conflict with the Echidna tribes and going mad from tangling with Green Knuckles way back when. Then the rest of the plot is really just about stopping Enerjak, with Eggman trying to use him as a battery but having his forces utterly devastated, Sonic going Super to try and literally beat some sense into him, and with it ending with Locke having to sacrifice himself to save Knuckles life. Also Shadow is now an agent of G.U.N. which is neat.

Saying that though, sometimes there is nothing wrong with a relatively simple plot, with the details of it basically being in the backstory of alot of Penders Knuckles story, somewhich the B stories in issues #181-#183 help explain to anyone new. Like someone said before, Flynn is good at using pre-existing continuity and using it to craft a story which moves the universe forward, and ends with a closer tie to the games with Knuckles being the last Echidna on Angel Island, with a more comprehensible understanding of what the Echnidas are up to, with half on Albion, the remenants of the Dark Legion taken over by Eggman, and the remenants of the Dingos stranded in the Sandopolis Desert rebuilding. Not to mention I think it is a good idea to clean away some of the very superflous characters the Knuckles comic had build up, so having Dr Finitevus basically wipe out the Brotherhood was probably a good move too, in my opinion.

The other notable thing is that #180's B story is a Sonic Rush Adventure adapatation, which like the Riders one is just more of an introduction, with it ending on a cliffhanger encouraging people to go out and buy the game. Kindof noticable though is how it doesn't feature Blaze in it, despite her being one of the two playable characters, as well as it having Sonic and Tails merely crash on an island, rather than crash on an island in another universe. I guess to try and keep in continuity with the Sonic Rush adaptation from #160-#161 which had Blaze promising to return at some point, so as not to make that confusing. Still, I must admit as someone who really does like Blaze I hope she starts popping up eventually, but from what I understand she will at some point, as well as Silver too in the future.

The only other notable thing of the Sonic Rush Adventure adaptation is the advertisement for it on the cover of issue #180, where they decide to make Marine out as a possible enemy for Sonic? Not exactly sure Marine is the next Shadow in terms of constantly switching sides, so is an odd hook to me.

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#185-#186: Considering how epic the last year of comics have been, with Eggman nuking Knothole, then Tails parents trying to start a coup, and then Knuckles turning evil and trying to purge the world of its sins, I guess it was inevitable that we would see a return to some more ordinary stories with less stakes. Still, I like this little story, and shockingly, is the first time I've found Mammoth Mogul to be remotely interesting. Pretty simple 2 parter, Mogul tells Sonic to let him out, Sonic refuses, then Mogul brainwashes Tails, Mighty and a returning Mina because he met the 3 of them before and put some kind of curse on them... yeah not sure I buy it but whatever. After trying to attack Sonic, Mogul has the 3 basically go on suicide missions which forces Sonic to cave into Mogul's demands, and let him out as well as Naugus and Team Hooligan.

However, Mogul has apparently been on the TV Tropes website during his prison time, and decides not to fight Sonic because he figures Sonic will find a way to beat him despite the odds being in his favour, and basically runs off, promising to torment Sonic's kids in the future. Pretty simple story, but again, probably a good move after a year of paying off many plot threads in explosive ways. And hey, Mina gets to be back which is cool, she's definetly one of my favourite comic characters, she is a lot of fun. Not to mention I think the fact that Mogul basically admits to not knowing how to defeat Sonic makes me like him more, even if I think he is still a little bit of a generic villian.

For whatever reason, the website I am reading these scans from seems to be missing the B story for #185, so I don't know what that was for. The B story for #186 is basically following up Knuckles as he goes to apologise to the Dingo leader for killing his son as Enerjak, and talking to Rouge who basically tells him to stop moping on Angel Island and start being with his friends again... although apparently she is doing it for her own reasons.

#187-#188: Another simple 2 parter, but this time I think this one is a bit weak. After Mogul's speech at the end of #186 about leaving Sonic for now, in #187... he hires a bunch of thugs to kill Sonic. I dunno, it feels like the way #186 ended it felt like it was going to be an exit for Mogul for a while, and then have him come back later on, rather than immedietly. We do get some nice little stuff, we have Merlin Prower leave New Mobotropolis to do his own thing, it is revealed Mogul has taken over the Casino Night Zone, Sonic and Sally have a little bit of reconciliation which ofcourse gets interuppted, and we see Rouge and a returning Geoffrey St John doing spy stuff. I don't know if I've mentioned it, but I really do not like St John when he was introduced as a foil to Sonic and one of Sally's half a dozen love interests, with him constantly acting like an arse. At least here he is fine, now that he is married off and being written by a better writer.

Sonic and Sally fight Team Hooligan and the Destructix, Sonic gets captured, Sally and co rescue him and confront Mogul. Mogul basically goes "you can't prove I hired them." "Damn! Until next time Mogul", which I think is a weak resolution honestly, especially considering how Mogul is guilty of a shit ton of other crimes. Still, at least we get more time with Bean the Dynamite, including this great part. I like the think Bean is representing Deviantart and Furaffinity here.

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On 7/29/2018 at 8:09 PM, silvereye27 said:

For whatever reason, the website I am reading these scans from seems to be missing the B story for #185, so I don't know what that was for.

You're not missing much from 185's B story, it's a continuation of the island of forgotten badniks plot form earlier. Giant Pseudo Sonic's stuck under the sea and the other badniks are trying to get him out until the Forty Fathoms Freedom Fighters arrive and beat them up.

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10 hours ago, Cuz said:

You're not missing much from 185's B story, it's a continuation of the island of forgotten badniks plot form earlier. Giant Pseudo Sonic's stuck under the sea and the other badniks are trying to get him out until the Forty Fathoms Freedom Fighters arrive and beat them up.

Ah OK that makes sense, I think that is why in issues #187-#188 we have the classic Badniks working for Mogul in the Casino Nights Zone.

Been reading further ahead, the next 8 issues focus on the alternate universe stuff with Scourge and his Suppresion Squad is pretty cool, and after that, Sonic Universe starts running. Havn't read any of Sonic Universe yet but I am excited to read it because I find the premise of it very interesting. This run of the comics has been pretty great overall. It further annoys me that the supplier I'm buying the IDW comics off of seems to just send them to me at random, since I've yet to receive issue #7, and could have to wait until issue #8 comes out for it to arrive.

Mind you, I've also discovered that the first season of Sonic Boom is on Netflix, so have watched the first 3 episodes of that. It's pretty good, I'm amazed that a TV show can now have CGI as good as the early Pixar movies nowadays.

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17 hours ago, Cuz said:

You're not missing much from 185's B story, it's a continuation of the island of forgotten badniks plot form earlier. Giant Pseudo Sonic's stuck under the sea and the other badniks are trying to get him out until the Forty Fathoms Freedom Fighters arrive and beat them up.

Was this B story included in either of Sonic Saga Vol 5 or 6? Because I don't remember this story at all.

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3 minutes ago, Gamefreak3525 said:

Was this B story included in either of Sonic Saga Vol 5 or 6? Because I don't remember this story at all.

It wasn't. It and the original badnik island story were only featured in their retrospective issues and never received reprints, presumably due to how little it tied into the stories at large. If Archives got to that point, it probably would've reprinted them then. 

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54 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

It wasn't. It and the original badnik island story were only featured in their retrospective issues and never received reprints, presumably due to how little it tied into the stories at large.

Except 187 directly alluded to it.

What I always found particularly baffling was that the Saga printing of the issue changed the footnote to say “see “Island of Misfit Badniks Salty Soggy Sequel” in StH#185, available for digital download”, thus asking you to literally rebuy the the very first story already in the book (Mogul Rising Part 1) in order to get the Badnik story.

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#189-#190: Essentially the start of an 8 issue saga, roughly split into four quarters, focusing on an invasion from Moebius, and the evil characters led by Scourge and Fiona against our Freedom Fighters. #189-#190 is fairly simple really, the evil characters invade Freedom Fighters HQ, a large brawl ensures which leads us to the reintroduction of the evil Freedom Fighters, with new names and redesigns. I always loved the original evil Freedom Fighters back when they were introduced way back in issue #11 I believe, with them all basically being evil by being nasty 24/7 and wearing trendy black clothes and eye patches.

But the problem with them is that they were very one note. Perfect back when they were introduced in the comic's comedy phase, but got less fitting when the comic became relatively serious, especially when having plots like Evil Sonic pretending to be good Sonic to get laid or Evil Antoine trying to become king. So I think the redesigns and renaming of everyone from Evil Sally to Alicia to Evil Tails to Miles is a smart move. And for the most part I like the changes. Evil Antoine (it's easier for me to call them evil name rather than their new names, sorry) and Evil Rotor are kindof generic, but I really like Evil Sally and Evil Tails.

Evil Sally's redesign seems to make her look alot older and worn out. It's odd, you get the feeling Evil Sally is just fed up of everything, and seems beaten down when compared to youthful and take charge normal Sally is, especially when she lets Scourge and Fiona be in control, and let Evil Tails do his own plotting. I dunno, I just find it interesting, you sortof get the impression she may be depressed, but perhaps that is me reading too deep into it. I like how much of a bastard Evil Tails is. I find it creative that he is opposite from Tails in that he isn't nieve, he is very confident, very intelligent but in a manipulative way, and seems to want to be in control, rather than content to be a sidekick.

The plot has the Evil Freedom Fighters - now the Suppresion Squad - invading FF HQ while Sonic, Knuckles and the Chaotix are busy fighting Eggman's Dark Legion in an abandoned city. Sonic is forced to run back and help the Freedom Fighters, but just as Knuckles and the Chaotix start to lose their fight, causing problems of a war on 2 fronts. The Chaotix win their fight, with Dmitri hinting at weakening Eggman's Empire from within, but without any other support, the Freedom Fighters are forced to retreat from their HQ, letting the Suppresion Squad own it.

Pretty good issues, a nice set up for what will be a fairly action heavy storyline. Not to mention will start to lead the foundation for Knuckles with his guilt over Enerjak and the Dark Egg Legion in the future.

As a side note, I love Sally's rage face on the cover of #189.

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#191-#192: Probably the most fillerish part of this 8 parter, these 2 issues see a few things happen. First, we have Sonic, Scourge, Metal Sonic and later, a Metal Scourge, duking it out with each other, with Scourge and Sonic talking about how different they are as they fight. Pretty neat fight, and honestly, the idea of a Metal Scourge makes me realise what a concept for a Metal Shadow would be. Surprised that hasn't been thought of before in the games actually. The Suppresion Squad starts to turn against Scourge and Fiona due to how badly they treat them, with Evil Tails turning the tide of mutiny. I also love how sarcastic Metal Sonic is in this.

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Knuckles go through some emotions as he falls out with Julie-Su and still feels extreme guilt over being Enerjak. Dmitri realises how little Eggman cares about the Dark Egg Legion and begins to plot against him. #191 has a B story which is a tie-in to Sonic Chronicles, which is a little ironic considering how that game would cause so much trouble for Archie. This time around, the B story doesn't even tie in with the Archie verse, but just with the game itself, which makes sense really. #192's B story is actually really good, as it has Scourge meet Sonic's dad, with the 2 talking about their differences. Pretty great honestly, the kindof thing that comes out of left field and works out extremely well. The only downside is that Jon Gray is back...

Also Charmy gets a great moment in #191 too.

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#193-#194: The alternate universe storyline is now back in full spring, with Sonic and Amy travelling to Moebius, while Evil Tails makes plans with the Freedom Fighters to betray Scourge. Sonic and Amy teaming up is actually pretty cool, and having Dr Kintobor coming back is pretty great as well. He's more or less the same, but the nervous thin pacifist scientist compared to Eggman is a very nice parallel. We also get to meet alternate Bunnie, who has fallen ill and put into a robot suit that looks Omega, but is painted with non-lethal weapons, and is in fact called Omega because Dr Kintobor built it as a last resort. They meet Rosy the Rascal, anti Amy, who has gone completely mad and become Harley Quinn, complete with a mallet and unhealthy obsession over someone.

Evil Tails tells the Freedom Fighters how much they hate Scourge, due to him being an all around dick, and actually forcing the Suppresion Squad to change their names and appearance, in a bit that is meta and makes sense. The Suppresion Squad and Freedom Fighters turn on Scourge and Fiona, with it ending with Evil Tails taking both Sonic and Scourge and sealing them on Moebius, hoping for Sonic to take him out over there, while Fiona I think gets away. And issue #194 ends with Silver turning up which is a nice cliffhanger. Pretty good stuff as we lead up to the finale of this storyline.

#193's B story is an Unleashed tie-in, nothing much to say, it's just a retelling of that game's opening cutscenes. #194 has Snively plotting against Eggman, where he communicates with an unknown ally somewhere else in the Eggman empire. Intriguing stuff.

#195-#196: I must admit, as much as I think this is a good conclusion, at the same time it is a bit of a mixed bag. This last 2 parter is called "Hedgehog Havoc", and for good reason. With Sonic, Amy and Scourge stranded in Moebius, basically every other hedgehog in the Archie lineup turns up through various means with Metal Sonic, Shadow, Silver, and Rob O'Hedge all turning up, which leads to a massive brawl, and a very confused Silver in the centre of it.

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Silver freezes everyone, and announces he is here to kill Sonic because a Freedom Fighter in the future will betray everyone, and Sonic is thought to be the only one who is powerful enough to accomplish. Rob points out that Sonic is very heroic, and that Silver didn't even know what Sonic looked like, leading Silver to realise he is being a bit of an idiot. Everyone realises that it is probably smarter to focus the fight, so everyone, including Metal Sonic hilariously, team up on Scourge, only for him to reveal he had his throne built out of Chaos Emeralds, and he goes Super.

The Freedom Fighters and Suppresion Squad all travel to Moebius, hoping Scourge is beat up... only to find everyone has been beaten up by Scourge, who then proceeds to beat everyone else up. Metal wants to kill Sonic because he can't beat Super Scourge, so Shadow Chaos Controls him into Sonic X #40. Sally tries her best to organise everyone into beating him, but it just isn't enough. Sonic and Scourge wind up finding outside in the rain, with Sonic figuring out that on Moebius, in a reversal, when you power down from being Super it severely drains you, so Sonic taunts Scourge out of his Super form.

Everything works out, the Suppresion Squad takes back their castle, with Evil Sally as the offical leader but with Evil Tails as the true mastermind. Buns in her Omega Armor may or may not go back to being evil. Silver goes back to his own time, basically saying he needs to do more research before he can figure out who the true traitor in the Freedom Fighters is. Sonic says he has to find answers as he plans to take Scourge to jail in the Parallel Zone.

Like I say, mostly a good climax to this whole thing, but it does feel messy. The whole hedgehog themed showdown does feel a bit forced. Shadow and Metal Sonic are in it basically so that they can run off to Sonic X #40 and to the start of Sonic Universe, while Silver is here to presumably set up a future plot line. For the most part, future plot lines have been set up quite neatly, but Silver turning up in a big cliffhanger in #194, basically revealing his deal in #195, and then just quietly going back to where he came from in #196 is very anti-climatic. I mean, the whole plot of Silver coming to kill Sonic thing is the sort of thing that I think deserves an issue to itself, rather than being a B plot.

I think the ending of the Mobius/Moebius thing works fairly well. My only real beefs are that Evil Rotor and Evil Antoine don't really do anything, the fact Scourge conquered Moebius is never really shown or means anything. Apparently he doesn't have an army that forces everyone to do their bigging? Seems like it would just mean everyone would just do their own thing behind his back. But still, it was pretty good, and I am a sucker for mirror universes, like in Star Trek.

I havn't actually read past #196, nor started Sonic Universe yet. I'm trying to keep up with writing these summaries before I get too far ahead. I really look forward to Sonic Universe especially, that series has intrigued me from the start and I can't wait to sink my teeth into it.

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Sonic Universe #1-#4: Like I said before, I've been very eager to get to Sonic Universe. This first 4 parter focusing on Shadow is pretty great, although really it isn't a typical 4 parter. Rather it is 4 stories centering on Shadow, with a loose arc about the formation of Team Dark.

I guess I should bring up Sonic X #40 that takes place before Universe #1? Not sure what to say about it, aside from it being neat. I forgot Metal Sonic was never in X so that was interesting having X Eggman react to him. Shadow interacting with Sonic and Chris was interesting, although I imagine this must clash with the TV show when Shadow comes back in season 3 in some capacity. Nothing much else to say really, maybe if I cared more about X I'd find it more emotional about Chris reacting to Shadow, but it is a cool thing that happened. I suppose maybe if you were to be cynical, it is perhaps a bit cheap that X's final issue is used to basically advertise the comic that would replace it, but I don't think it is an issue, especially when the X comic probably couldn't ever have a proper ending since they were stuck at the end of season 2.

#1 has Shadow and Metal Sonic arrive in Blaze's dimension, when Metal Sonic knocks Shadow into the sea and has to be rescued by Blaze and Marine. Blaze explains that she knows about Sonic by meeting him in the Sonic Rush tie-in way back in issues #160-#161, and then again in the Sonic Rush Adventure adaptation in #180, with that game's plot seemingly happening comic wise off panel. The trio head to port when they find Metal Sonic blowing the place up, forcing the 3 to fight Metal. Shadow tries to reason to Metal about not being a slave to the Eggman, but Metal refuses to change sides, forcing the 3 to take him out. Shadow returns to his dimension with a Chaos Emerald Blaze had gotten from Sonic from their off panel adventure.

Pretty good issue, if perhaps a little odd for a first issue. It is odd for the first issue of a new series to start in the middle of a story about Shadow and Metal Sonic, not to mention doesn't really have that much to do with the other 3 issues of the Shadow Saga which have a focus on Team Dark as a whole. Still, it is a fun story. It is cool Blaze is now properly a character now in the comics, Marine is written well as being funny and annoying, and Shadow works as a lead character. It's a minor problem, but I must admit I am disappointed about how Blaze is handled. At the end of the Rush adaptation, after fighting Sonic, she promises to turn up again to see him about a future destiny. The Rush Adventure adaptation seems to purposely omit Blaze and the alternate dimension when Sonic and Tails meet Marine and run into Johnny, I premuse so that Blaze coming back was kept for a proper issue story. So it is a little disappointing that as it turns out, it turns out the Rush Adventure adaptation was basically a 1:1 retelling of the game off panel, meaning Blaze's foreshadowing in #161 essentially goes nowhere, and it means Blaze's development from a cold loner to learning the power of friendship happens off panel too, since when we meet her in Universe #1, she is friendly and chill.

Like I say, it doesn't bother me that much, but I guess it is a little disappointing. Still, Blaze is now properly established as a character now, which with Silver being introduced only a couple of months ago in the main Sonic comic and Omege's introduction in Universe #3, it does feel like a push to try and get all the remaining Sonic secondary characters in the comicsverse. I think at this point Cream is the only noticable absent character. Still, fun issue, and it is a nice way of showing that Universe will be focusing on characters other than Sonic. It has a very funny moment with Marine too.

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#2 is fairly simple. It focuses on 2 stories, with a retelling of Adventure 2 in the comic continuity while in the present, Sonic, Shadow and Rouge stop one of Eggman's machines from blowing up the Freedom Fighters. Pretty good overall, we did talk about this earlier in the thread and it is neat having the comic show what happened in the comic's version of Adventure 2, since previous it happened off panel. It is kindof funny seeing it happen with Tails, Knuckles and Amy present, with Sonic teaming up with Rouge for half of it, which makes it feel like a bit of a "what if?" story, even if the result it essentially the same as the game. It is a nice twist though that when Rouge gets locked in the GUN facility, Sonic actually makes a truce with Shadow to go rescue her, that is a nice detail of this version.

More of an action packed issue, with the focus more on Sonic and Shadow basically being friends now, which Rouge teases Shadow about, and Shadow's development from villian to hero. Solid stuff and helps give Shadow some development, as well as making his backstory nice and clear. I think the only bit that bugged was that apparently, the Adventure 2 events happened only 1 year before the present day, which I think is inaccurate since it would mean the last 100 issues of the main comic have taken place over a single year, and I'm pretty sure Sonic was lost in space for a year after being thought dead at the end of #125. Ah well, whatever, probably best not to think about it, I imagine a comic like this is going to always have a compressed timeframe, otherwise Sonic should be in his 20s by now.

#3 has Shadow sent to retrieve Gamma for GUN, as Gamma has been working as a lone agent fighting Eggman's badniks after the Adventure adaptation, and Eggman is going to send Omega to have him terminated. Shadow finds Gamma in the snowy mountains, but Omega arrives causing problems. Shadow tries to save Gamma, but Omega is able to destroy him, with Gamma uploading his soul essentially into Omega's systems, causing Omega to feel guilt for destroying Gamma and being a living weapon... even if Omega is still not exactly a nice robot.

Still, pretty good stuff. More parallels for Shadow with him and Omega being built as weapons, a nice finale for Gamma, and Omega is now in the comic.

#4's plot is about invading the Special Zone to get another Chaos Emerald for GUN, but really it's an issue about Team Dark working together, and Shadow having to work with others, as well as him being insecure about failing when he considers himself the Ultimate Lifeform. Hope, who now works for GUN as a genius scientist and who presumably was let go by Snively back in issue #177 I think, helps consol Shadow. Team Dark has to do the challenge of the god like being in the Special Zone to gain the Chaos Emerald, and working as a team they get it, with it ending with them being branded as Team Dark.

Again, solid stuff. The Shadow Saga is very interesting to me. Unless I'm mistaken, it is a bit unique in how it is 4 stories with a theme, whereas from what I understand, most of Universe will have single stories told over 4 issue chunks. As the name implies, this focuses on Shadow, with him having to deal with his own problems of him being built as a weapon and trying to do the right thing. Honestly, aside from his usual angst, Shadow is pretty nice alot of the time really. Hell, I think he is nicer than a few incarnations of Sonic really, even with a bit of an attitute.

All 4 issues are solid. I guess to nitpick, I do think issue 1 has little to do with the other 3 aside from Shadow and Metal talking about being living weapons. For a set of stories also about Team Dark, Rouge doesn't really get much focus even if she does alot in #2 and #4. She does stuff and pulls her weight, but it is never really about her, unlike Shadow and later Omega. Not to mention is has that game problem where Rouge is now suddenly a good guy spy for GUN, whereas last time we saw her in the comic I believe, she was teamed up with Scourge to try and steal things. #4 doesn't feel like much of a conclusion, hell, it feels like with the formation of Team Dark at the end it feels like it is setting up some future issues when it just awkwardly cuts to the teaser page for the next storyline about Mobius: 30 Years Later.

Still, I really enjoyed this though. If the rest of Universe has this kind of quality and interesting storylines focusing on other Sonic characters, it wouldn't surprise me if Universe winds up being my favourite aspect of the Archie Sonic series. Hell, I think the quality of these issues prove that a Shadow/Team Dark spin off series could of worked by itself, it is that strong.

 

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On 7/30/2018 at 1:02 AM, silvereye27 said:

issue #29 having these little strips in random pages about recycling.

That was probably an attempt to emulate the format seen in other kid-friendly comics at the time, where short gags ran along the bottom of various pages. A good example of this would be the 2003 Teen Titans Go comics.

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I really don't like Ian's take on Shadow, it's like it's ripped straight from fanfiction dot net with a Sonadow heavy headcannon that Shadow respects Sonic as much as he does Maria. Which is debatable from the games, and Shadow remains an indecisive angsty teen in the process, with characters manipulating his emotional frailty about the past to get him to achieve goals he should carry out by default, which if i was Shadow would punch in the face in trying to get leverage out of me in bringing up topics that Shadow should be strong willed enough to move on from, Shadow's past was not an issue after shth and 06 seemed to allow him to balance the maturity with the competance only the ultimate lifeform could handle. Yet Ian's Shadow never has real validation for his title and never feels in control of his life, without Rouge or Omega that is. I hate Sonic is more playful to Shadow when Shadow did something important but Shadow just takes it, when in the games Shadow stance reguarding  Sonic playful and cheeky nature was absolute, Shadow was patient but disgusted by Sonic immature ways even calling him out on it in one of the missions in his game, showing Sonic he doesn't tolerate fun and games, and Sonic respected that. Sonic and Shadow should have acted like be hostile rivals and tense allies, not good friends. Which for my final point makes me wonder what was going through ian's head when he put Shadow with GUN for good and basically made him into a emo joke and a sidekick to Rouge. Seems ooc, Rouge and Shadow were always professional with each other but Rouge treats Shadow like a little brother and Shadow just feels like a minuscule lacky to Rouge and Commander unable to lead his own life without their input, while game wise Shadow chooses to ally with GUN and Rouge but still feels like an independent force that takes charge of his life.

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Sonic Universe #5-#8: It is great to finally reach Mobius: 30 Years Later after knowing about it for a while. And good grief, after the very rocky and very Penders M25YL saga, and its good but somewhat rushed conclusion in issues #166-#167, I think M30YL is easily the best of the bunch. Probably because it is mostly cut loose from the Penders M25YL saga and can basically do its own thing, with it writing out all of Penders characters aside from Lara-Su. Hell, even Knuckles gets written out, despite the fact he was the main character of M25YL, presumably because Universe #9-#12 is focused on Knuckles in the present day.

Plot is fairly simple. Since M25YL, Sonic and Sally have gotten married, they have 2 new kids to replace the old kids wiped out by the timeline shift, the world is at peace. Lien-Da however is working with her conspiritors, the Dark Presence, to take out Sonic and Sally, but get foiled by an arriving Silver. Silver, having apparently come straight from issue #196, warns Sonic and Sally about a traitor and a big catastrophe. The Dark Presence however storm the castle, as well as capturing Tails and Mina in their hotel, forcing Sally, the kids and a knocked out Silver have to hide in the castle's safe room while Sonic and current guardian Lara-Su work together.

They form a new set of Freedom Fighters with Tails and Mina's 2 kids, Bunnie and Antoine's 2 kids and Vector's son. Lein-Da is able to break Shadow out of his stasis beneath the castle, but rather than wanting to rule again, he decides he wants to destroy the world, and kills Lien-Da by breaking her time bracelet erasing her from the current timeline, which is pretty awesome. And to wipe out humanity, he gets Tikhaos - a combination of Perfect Chaos and Tikal, who has an unquenchable hunger for chaos energy, which is such a dark idea but one that I love.

Shadow retreats to somewhere unknown to come back to rule the world when everyone is dead, while Sonic, the new Freedom Fighters, and then eventually everyone else fights Tikhaos, eventually winning out. Everything is fine, the Dark Presence has no leader and want nothing to do with Shadow anymore, and a new set of Freedom Fighters are ready to help save the world. Silver goes back to his future, with still the question of a traitor in the ranks of the Freedom Fighters.

Compared to the overlong M25YL, M30YL is definetly more straightforward, with Shadow and Lien-Da being our antagonists, while Sonic has to cope with being an older man who is king while we get Lara-Su being more used to being a guardian without her dad or the Chaotix to assist her. We also get many kid characters, who are all fine if very much in that vein of being "original characters, do not steal". If a mixed species couple have kids, the son will be the father's species, the daughter will be the mother's species. Although I did notice apparently for Mina's daughter, she has gotten Tails' muzzle which is slightly weird honestly in certain frames.

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I find it especially funny that Antoine's son has the French accent and Bunnie's daughter has the Southern accent. Not to mention the apparent implication that Bunnie's kids were born with cybernetics? Wait, if Bunnie is robotisiced from the waist down how did she get preg... you know what, never mind.

Still, I think the story works for me way more than M25YL because it feels far more connected to the actual Sonic comics, rather than it being Penders just doing his own thing in a Sonic comic. The formation of a set of Freedom Fighters who are all descendents is a cool idea. Sonic being married to Sally with kids and dealing with his age is great, with several great moments for him, like calming down Tails' kids and Lara-Su when things are bad, still being sad at the loss of his first set of kids, and the way his marriage with Sally is handled. I love this page from #6 especially, it feels like a commentary on how useless Sally was in M25YL.

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Sally and Sonic's relationship is very well written, Tails and Mina work really well together as well, including Mina saying she'll have a word with Sonic about bringing her kids into the fight and Tails being a bit of a confident guy now. Even Shadow, as much as he is basically a Bond villian in this future, at least excuses his actions by being like in Adventure 2 and being motivated by what he felt Maria would of wanted. If he couldn't change the world from ruling it, he'll just purge it. I think the darker elements are handled well here, Sonic can be dark if done in the right dosage, and Tikhaos is actually very tragic. It feels like the kind of thing I would want from a possible future story, rather than the politics and pretentious dialogue and awkward relationship stuff from M25YL.

I mean, I guess if I had to find flaws, again, in M25YL, Knuckles was the main character, so arguably M30YL perhaps isn't being that faithful with him absent, but I don't care to be honest. I do find it funny that with issues #1-#4 all about Shadow trying to be a good guy, these issues are about him being a bastard. Must of been confusing to anyone who hadn't read the M25YL issues. There is also the issue of Silver coming in, and apparently confirming this is indeed the future, rather than a possible alternate reality which arguably gets rid of any wiggle room. But then I'm sure you can have a timey-wimey explanation from things being different here than in the present.

I guess this is the end of the M25/30YL storylines. At this point we're only about 4 years away from the Archie reboot, and as far as I'm aware this is the last story. Still, it had its fun spots, even in the Penders era, but I definetly think this is the strongest of it.

Urgh, I just wish my copies of IDW's Sonic #7 and #8 would arrive. May have to file a complaint at this rate.

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Something I keep overthinking to this day is are the Manic and Sonia of the altered timeline really the same individuals from the unaltered one.

Like, are they spiritually the same pair of consciousnesses(?) as their earlier counterparts, or are they completely different individuals in body and soul that have taken their names?

It’s the same principle as asking “if the sexual intercourse from which I was concieved hadn’t occurred until a day later, would a different child have been concieved in my place?”

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5 hours ago, Ernest-Panda said:

It’s the same principle as asking “if the sexual intercourse from which I was concieved hadn’t occurred until a day later, would a different child have been concieved in my place?”

 

Yes, it would be a different child. A different sperm would have won. Altering either parent's timeline, even slightly, would throw off the precise set of circumstances that lead to one particular sperm winning, out of several million.

The only time travel story I've ever seen acknowledge this was the film "About Time".

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Quick question. What issue numbers did the two Archie Sonic series end with? I've fallen behind with my comic guy. Last issue I have of SotH is 288 and SU is 92. 

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On 8/15/2018 at 9:04 AM, Dash Speed said:

I really don't like Ian's take on Shadow, it's like it's ripped straight from fanfiction dot net with a Sonadow heavy headcannon 

You say that like it's a bad thing.

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Sonic Universe #9-#12: To tell the truth, I honestly don't have too much to say about this story. Knuckles: The Return is a good story which harkens back to Knuckles own series, with the focus on him, Julie-Su, half of the Chaotix and later the Downunda Freedom Fighters, as a threat emerges on Angel Island from Dr Finitevus. The plot is fairly simple to summarise as it has 2 parts.

In the first part, Knuckles, Julie-Su and Mighty hear from the Dingo general that they've found Dr Finitevus' lab, so the 3 head there to try and find him while at one point, falling into a basement with walls of spikes and a laser grid. Meanwhile Vector and Ray have to guard the Master Emerald from an attack from flying badniks, which they are only able to win against when Ray pretends to be going super on the Master Emerald, in this story's highlight. Knuckles and co use a warp ring to go down to Downunda and find Dr Finitevus, where we see massive chains fired at Angel Island, pulling it back down to where it once emerged.

The second part has Knuckles relucantly team up with Dr Finitevus, as badniks attack them, and are joined by the Downunda Freedom Fighters. Over a camp fire, it is revealed that Downunda FF member has joined Eggman's Dark Legion, being made up of platypusses which he leads, and that they know that Finitevus is secretly working with Eggman. They come up with a plan to destroy the harpoons attached to Angel Island, while the Downunda FFs attack Finitevus in a surpise move, and Julie-Su and Ray are sent back to Angel Island, to help protect it and because Ray is just a kid. However, both plans fail as Finitevus is too strong for the Downunda FFs to deal with, and Knuckles and co are swamed by badniks, leading to everyone being captured at the end of issue #11.

Dr Finitevus explains that he has joined up with the Egg Legion so that they can recapture Angel Island, and in exchange, Dr Finitevus can study the Master Emerald at his leisure. However, in a stroke of luck, it turns out that Bill isn't a traitor, but rather was coerced into becoming the leader of the Platypus army because the Platypusses wanted a chance at power, so Bill became leader to try and cause problems from within. With everyone freed, everyone fights the Dark Legion and badniks, but without any warp rings, Mighty is forced to chuck Knuckles a mile into the air! I love how absurd Mighty is in the comics, it's pretty great.

Knuckles is able to find Finitevus at the Master Emerald. Finitevus does the classic Darth Vader line of Knuckles joining him to rule the galaxy, saying he can have anything he wants. Knuckles responds by punching him, because he just wants his father back. The two fight it out, with Finitevus resorting to a warp ring, threatening to cut Knuckles in two by closing it around his waist. Julie-Su however pops out from a hiding place, shooting Finitevus in the back. And doing something that is genuinely badass, Knuckles drags his body and throws him off Angel Island with the line "get off my island" like he's Harrison Ford. Everything works out, the Chaotix thank the Downunda Freedom Fighters, Julie-Su and Knuckles have a nice moment together, and it is revealed that Dr Finitevus survived his drop with just a broken arm, promising to be back.

I think it is a good story, again, I just think it is a bit unremarkable. The plot is fairly simple. Dr Finitevus doesn't do anything of real note, and his plan is really just to get the Master Emerald for study, not to actually do anything sinister with it. Dragging down Angel Island isn't really threatening when you consider the only people left on it is a village of Dingos, and that they are dragging it back into the empty crater it emerged from. I don't think the story is bad in any way, it just feels very standard, especially when compared to the previous 2 Universe stories. I don't think it helps either that with 5 Chaotix members at the start of the story, bringing in the Downunda FFs comes across as a bit crowded. I think the Downunda FFs work a bit better when paired with 1 or 2 characters, like the Tails mini series. I suppose the biggest plot progression is for Knuckles to get over his trauma of being Enerjak by confronting Finitevus and being happy with Julie-Su at the end, so it serves as a bit of an epilogue to the recent Enerjak arc and an epilogue for parts of the Knuckles series.

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There are lots of details though. Ray and Vector have a nice relationship akin to an Uncle and Nephew, with young Ray training to be a Chaotix detective, and using his detective knowledge to fake being super. Vector hints at his past about being from Downunda and the Downunda FFs not liking him, only giving him respect when he helps fight with them. Apparently this was brought up in issue #120, but because I tend to read these comics in sporadic bursts, I honestly forget alot of the details so can't remember how much of this was always known. Mighty talks with Harry the cab driver where it is revealed that Harry has suffered alot thanks to the Chaotix's messes, which is a nice sad moment. The Downunda FFs come back, with Bill going (apparently) rogue again, this time of his own free will which is nice continuity from the Downunda continuity. Echidna history is hinted at with Albion ruins being discovered by Knuckles, and Finitevus reveals that Dmitri wasn't the first Enerjak, but refuses to say more unless Knuckles would join him, which ofcourse he refuses.

Like I say, a good story, just not quite great, but still very much enjoyable and good quality. And I guess, since we are now less than 4 years from the Genesis Wave reboot, one of the last or perhaps even the last Penders style Knuckles story, so it is nice that it does feel like a bit of an epilogue to that era.

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God, I remember not liking that gross looking kiss Sonic and Sally did but I think that was back when I was just starting to get into criticizing the comics online on a completely different forum. l was also getting used to the Archie comics in general. I got in at around the 190s and, if I recall, the start of Sonic Universe, wasn't too far off from that so I was jumping into to some confusing stuff.

Reading Mobius 30 Yrs Later was almost anger inducingly confusing at the time. Even now with the full context, I still don't like it. I think it's still probably my least favorite of the Sonic Universe stories but I haven't revisited this material in a long time. I do especially remember this really unprofessional black cat news reporter who kept making disgusted faces and crying faces with everything she read off on her paper. It was really funny.

I think Knuckles: The Return was a better story... but again all that personal preference stuff was getting in the way of my enjoyment. There was the fact that I didn't like Mighty, the fact that I didn't get why Ray was with Vector instead of Charmy, I didn't understand why Ray suddenly had this weird stutter that he definitely didn't have before, I wasn't on board with Mighty being super-awesome in comparison to everyone else because I liked everyone else more, and I really, really hated Julie-Su. I also remember the panel of Mighty tossing Knuckles in the air looking really bad. Like Knuckles was floating or something. There weren't any speed lines of movement to indicate that was what was happening...

I want to re-read it all again someday. Especially now that the IDW comic is a thing and I've finally got the comic I've always wanted. I'd probably still have a lot of problems with these old Archie books but going in with a more objective mindset might be an interesting project. 

A Then and Now scenario if you will.

I still hate Julie-Su though. She's legit terrible. 

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8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

God, I remember not liking that gross looking kiss Sonic and Sally did but I think that was back when I was just starting to get into criticizing the comics online on a completely different forum. l was also getting used to the Archie comics in general. I got in at around the 190s and, if I recall, the start of Sonic Universe, wasn't too far off from that so I was jumping into to some confusing stuff.

Reading Mobius 30 Yrs Later was almost anger inducingly confusing at the time. Even now with the full context, I still don't like it. I think it's still probably my least favorite of the Sonic Universe stories but I haven't revisited this material in a long time. I do especially remember this really unprofessional black cat news reporter who kept making disgusted faces and crying faces with everything she read off on her paper. It was really funny.

Yeah, I believe Universe would of kicked off around issue #197. Universe #2 actually takes place inbetween issues #198 and #199, as Shadow recruits Sonic for a mission while the Freedom Fighters are asleep in a camp planning to attack Eggman.

I can see why the M30YL can be both confusing and annoying. In the original M25YL run, they had this off panel comic in #141, basically saying that M25YL may not be the real future, and the fact that original run ends with Sonic going back in time to change the past sortof proved that. But then in M30YL, you had Silver turn up, straight from issue #196, which seems to prove that this is in fact the real future, which I must admit I'm not keen on, I think it works better as a possible "what if?"

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And you are definetly right about that reporter cat, maybe she works for the Mobius equivelant of Fox News? I just took as them trying to make an info dump interesting.

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8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I think Knuckles: The Return was a better story... but again all that personal preference stuff was getting in the way of my enjoyment. There was the fact that I didn't like Mighty, the fact that I didn't get why Ray was with Vector instead of Charmy, I didn't understand why Ray suddenly had this weird stutter that he definitely didn't have before, I wasn't on board with Mighty being super-awesome in comparison to everyone else because I liked everyone else more, and I really, really hated Julie-Su. I also remember the panel of Mighty tossing Knuckles in the air looking really bad. Like Knuckles was floating or something. There weren't any speed lines of movement to indicate that was what was happening...

I must admit, I havn't got much opinion of the Chaotix in general, so can't say it ever bothered me. You are right about Ray suddenly stuttering out of nowhere though.

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I want to re-read it all again someday. Especially now that the IDW comic is a thing and I've finally got the comic I've always wanted. I'd probably still have a lot of problems with these old Archie books but going in with a more objective mindset might be an interesting project. 

A Then and Now scenario if you will.

I think you should do it. Like I said a while ago, I'm going into this as a new reader, and it is pretty fascinating seeing the highs and lows. Would be interesting to hear the perspective of someone who read the comics when they were coming out.

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I still hate Julie-Su though. She's legit terrible. 

She was pretty bad in the Penders era. She's OK in the Flynn era, but definetly not a favourite. I don't think Penders was terribly great at writing female characters if you ask me.

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