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Ah, now we're getting into the thick of the stuff that I remember being at the forefront of my first real Sonic comic experience.

It's interesting because, again, I remember having a very confused, visceral reaction to what happened in Issue 200. I didn't really like how easy everything was and how the turnabout with Eggman took place. If Sonic hadn't felt bad about it, I probably would have full on hated it. There was a bit of an odd, relaxed atmosphere that I felt happening afterward too. That's probably because I didn't fully grasp why this was considered to be Eggman's last stand at the time. I still kind of don't to be honest. I need to go back and re-read some things because it shouldn't be such a head-scratcher as to why they were all so certain this was the final battle unless they knew Eggman was going to lose it.

More interesting still is that I actually really enjoyed the Iron Dominion Arc but I also recall a ton of people at the time hating it. So that was a bit of a reverse situation. Even Ian said that some things about it definitely didn't come across the way he wanted them to, which I get. I wasn't a fan of the way it ended for instance, though even that had somethings within it that I enjoyed. 

 

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Sonic's reaction Kind feels like a modernizing of his tone at the end of SatAM.

Sally: "What, "too bad"?"

Sonic: "Hey, Without a villain what's a hero gonna do?"

There it read to me like an interesting character flaw pertaining to his ego.

I've never gotten all the way through the Iron Dominion arc but I loved what I managed to catch of it. The World Tour arc is back with a vengeance and it doesn't clash with everything else this time.

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To be honest, I like to review these comics because I havn't read them before, and I find the Archie continuity genuinely interesting. I'm afraid I'm not much for actual analysis. I think the Eggman breakdown thing is handled fine, and I think the reason only Sonic feels guilty is because he is the one who pushes Eggman into it, and is in fact the only one who sees it fully. Sally and Snively only see it after he goes mad, and Sally leaves him with Snively out of guilt.

I think the Iron Dominion arc is pretty solid all things considered though. I'll need to get around to talking about it, I'm a bit busy tonight. Universe continues to be cemented as probably my favourite Archie series since I think #13-#16 is my favourite part of the Iron Dominion sage, and the Tails Adventure adaptation in #17-#20 is just loads of fun too.

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28 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Ah, now we're getting into the thick of the stuff that I remember being at the forefront of my first real Sonic comic experience.

It's interesting because, again, I remember having a very confused, visceral reaction to what happened in Issue 200. I didn't really like how easy everything was and how the turnabout with Eggman took place. If Sonic hadn't felt bad about it, I probably would have full on hated it. There was a bit of an odd, relaxed atmosphere that I felt happening afterward too. That's probably because I didn't fully grasp why this was considered to be Eggman's last stand at the time. I still kind of don't to be honest. I need to go back and re-read some things because it shouldn't be such a head-scratcher as to why they were all so certain this was the final battle unless they knew Eggman was going to lose it.

Basically, Eggman's downfall happens during the Enerjak saga. Enerjak is captured by Eggman in one of the Egg Grapes. However, the plan backfires as Enerjak is to powerful to be contained, blowing up the Egg Grapes and destroying most of the city. Eggman later tries to use his Egg Fleet against Enerjak but that is blown up too. I can't find it but I believe a figure is issued that Eggman loses something like 75% of his entire army thanks to Enerjak. However he does recruit the remenants of the Dark Legion, now being rebranded as the Dark Egg Legion.

However, the Legion are basically incompetant and what used to be a thriving city for Eggman is now just a glorified bunker in the middle of a city of ruins. Sonic and co manage to have success against the Legion and the Egg forces, and it is also revealed in a sub plot, Snively begins to plot against Dr Eggman that all the sub bosses are understaffed and having problems maintaining any power across the world. Eggman begins to become more senile, and Snively plots with sub boss The Iron Queen to take over the empire for themselves. Sonic and co are on the offensive, but are interupted by the arrival of evil characters from Moebius. Sonic and Sally disobey orders to fight the Moebius lot, because the council knows that Eggman is on the brink of defeat, and Sally also believes that the Moebius lot are a more credible threat with them taking over Freedom Fighter HQ near their city.

When the last stand happens, the Legion purposefully retreat and let Sonic in through to fight Dr Eggman, where he finally snaps into madness. Hope that roughly explains it.

28 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

More interesting still is that I actually really enjoyed the Iron Dominion Arc but I also recall a ton of people at the time hating it. So that was a bit of a reverse situation. Even Ian said that some things about it definitely didn't come across the way he wanted them to, which I get. I wasn't a fan of the way it ended for instance, though even that had somethings within it that I enjoyed.  

The ending could be better I must admit, it definetly seems very rushed. Issue #212 is an epilogue, and it feels clunky how Monkey Khan and Sally's romance ends, since Monkey Khan would only be a main character for this particular saga. I still like alot of it personally, and again, my highlight is the Jouney to the East story from Universe that ties into the saga.

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2 hours ago, silvereye27 said:

Basically, Eggman's downfall happens during the Enerjak saga. Enerjak is captured by Eggman in one of the Egg Grapes. However, the plan backfires as Enerjak is to powerful to be contained, blowing up the Egg Grapes and destroying most of the city. Eggman later tries to use his Egg Fleet against Enerjak but that is blown up too. I can't find it but I believe a figure is issued that Eggman loses something like 75% of his entire army thanks to Enerjak. However he does recruit the remenants of the Dark Legion, now being rebranded as the Dark Egg Legion.

However, the Legion are basically incompetant and what used to be a thriving city for Eggman is now just a glorified bunker in the middle of a city of ruins. Sonic and co manage to have success against the Legion and the Egg forces, and it is also revealed in a sub plot, Snively begins to plot against Dr Eggman that all the sub bosses are understaffed and having problems maintaining any power across the world. Eggman begins to become more senile, and Snively plots with sub boss The Iron Queen to take over the empire for themselves. Sonic and co are on the offensive, but are interupted by the arrival of evil characters from Moebius. Sonic and Sally disobey orders to fight the Moebius lot, because the council knows that Eggman is on the brink of defeat, and Sally also believes that the Moebius lot are a more credible threat with them taking over Freedom Fighter HQ near their city.

When the last stand happens, the Legion purposefully retreat and let Sonic in through to fight Dr Eggman, where he finally snaps into madness. Hope that roughly explains it.

Actually, it does. And all that makes complete sense too. I know that I definitely didn't remember some of those details. I remembered the Egg Fleet getting blown up by Enerjak but the reaction to it happening was so comedic from Eggman's point of view that I just considered the tactical retreat to be just that and nothing else. It was probably the part of me that was still engrained in how the games work, as Eggman getting an entire armada of ships destroyed usually doesn't mean much as he has another one in his back pocket seemingly every game. I definitely didn't catch how crucial the Dark Legion was to him at the time too. I just figured it was a footnote to his army that he liked messing around with because he could. This is the problem with drawing upon memory. 

2 hours ago, silvereye27 said:

The ending could be better I must admit, it definetly seems very rushed. Issue #212 is an epilogue, and it feels clunky how Monkey Khan and Sally's romance ends, since Monkey Khan would only be a main character for this particular saga. I still like alot of it personally, and again, my highlight is the Jouney to the East story from Universe that ties into the saga.

It was very rushed, though, there was an aspect to the quick pace that had an advantage and that was Snively's reaction to it all falling apart around him. When he runs away and sees the Iron King smash through the ceiling and he lets out a screech, that was one of the most intense feelings I had read in the comic to that point. I wanted him to get away and it was tense because he's actually the kind of character that you could actually see getting captured. If they had done that with a hero character it wouldn't have worked as well because you already don't expect hero characters to get caught. Plus, that also takes into account how I'm usually more a fan of the villains than the heroes when it comes to the old Archie books.

The romance angle ended up being one of those hot buttons back when the issues were coming out. Not just on the forum I was on but I checked out Archie's main website and saw the reaction to the issue where Sonic agrees to go get food with Amy while Sally and Monkey Khan are together. It was very amusing in how ridiculous some of the responses were. One of them even said they ripped the comic in half after reading it. 

Like... chill out. The worst I've done to those issues below 160 that I own is not bother putting them in comic protector pages. Ripping something you own in half because your favorite pairing has been put on hold is a level of obsession I couldn't imagine ever having.

Journey to the East was interesting as a story. Better than a few of the Universe arcs before it at that point. I recall Issue #3 of Journey to the East being one of my favorites because of how dirty it does one of the villain characters and I also recall Issue #4 being one of my least favorites because it dealt with a lot of boring talk and Espio's family and... I really didn't care about Espio's family. 

Romance was hard to care about in general when it came to the books. Without any finality to it, a lot of it seemed pointless. Especially when you know the comic isn't going to deviate from Sonic and Sally anyway. Having these two fight and break up over and over was just an intense waste of time and it didn't help that I wasn't crazy about Sally or the fact that Sonic was in a relationship at all. Not to mention, Amy made it weird since her presence in the book where she's got a completely hopeless and futile love for Sonic made it awkward whenever it was addressed. In the games, you could argue it's at least plausible Sonic may eventually feel something for her as he does care for her and has even agreed to go on dates with her at times. It could easily be written off as something that could happen but won't ever be seen within the games. However, the comics have made it clear that the SatAM relationship is where it's made it's bed. I can only assume that Amy not appearing in the 25-30 years later stories where Sonic and Sally are married was a decision made to avoid giving the uselessness of her inclusion any finality. 

It just felt really messy at times.

I've gotten far from the point. I like the Iron Dominion Arc and Journey to the East. Good stories.

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I haven't quite got up to 10 yet but some of my favorite issues/arcs:

Darkest Storm (stop me if you've heard this), Ian at his finest, It brings up and briefly revels in comic book minutiae before consolidating it into a cleaner more modern Sonic friendly status quo. Ian was a master of collecting enough loose details, and minor, one-off characters, and making a DC Crisis level event of them and I don't think anything did that better than Darkest Storm.

Sonic #71 Like another one off down the line 71 is a strange, trippy tale. This time told in reverse, and notable for transitioning Sonic from his classic design to his Modern one, in a way only comic book pseudo science could. I also get a kick out of Sonic's many different elemental-themed Super Forms that I'm sure are clearly based off every color Hyper Sonic flashed in S3&K, because that sounds like just the kind of thing Archie would do, and why not? It's just the kind of thing you eat up as a kid.

Sonic #90-99 I've always loved Mina's introduction to the comic, it mainly spans these 9 or 10 issues (and then some but these are the gist of it). Granted this era can be a little shaky, Ken's photographs as backgrounds, pencil-thin character proportions, and questionable curve-balls like: the Kingdom trying to reinstate a traditional public school structure in the middle of hiding from Robotnik as he rises to power once again, or Chaos (green) Knuckles.... ALL of that happens in this run of issues, and it's worth mentioning that this really is the start of the "furry-sitcom-mellow-drama" era for the book, but it's just my kind of silly, and more importantly there's still substance in-between the logistical details.

Return to Angel Island This arc, that really starts in the infamous "Slap" issue, is almost telling it's own separate story through the art style alone. Jon Gray's artstyle is a refreshing break from the mellow drama, or at least a cushion for it. Dr. Finitevus is introduced, Hunter from the forgettable half of Knuckle's comic comes back (and dies in just the same span of time). It had it's share of big-lipped alligator moments like Knee-Caps, or Chaos Knuckles. I mostly just loved seeing the Chaotix called to action with Sonic and the art get away with references a mile a minute. It feels good to see so much of Ken's stuff break out of the stasis they've been stuck in for so long now.

Sonic #86-87, Heart of the Hedgehog. Featuring the return of Metal Sonic (the one that would go on to become fan-favorite Shard). This was a pleasant surprise buried at the end of the Sonic Adventure adaption, which could be loose and chaotic. This was a two parter that felt like a story cut from World Tour. It focuses exclusively on Sonic and Tails to the degree that none of the other Freedom Fighters appear. It's a fairly simple plot where Metal kidnaps Tails and dukes it out with Sonic in and around an active volcano, but the meat is Sonic appealing to Metal's humanity. He may of developed a personality, but is he more than that? The art is solid if a little loose (I like loose styles personally). Tails looks kind of shabby but he is mostly suspended from a volcano, so he looks appropriate half of the time. It's also heavily reminiscence of the OVA in places. It's the simplicity that really makes this one stick out. It lacks any of the hallmarks of Archie and feels like it could fit in a number of Sonic's splinter cell canons. That and I kind of have the image of poor Tails suspended from a volcano seared into my head from picking this issue up as a kid. Think I'm doing my part to sear it into yours.

Sonic #35 This little one-off from the early days of Archie is notable for how trippy it is. The Ancient Walkers, first introduced in the Tails mini-series, exercise their godly power to play some mind games on Sonic, and in doing so mayyybe explore a connection between the Power Rings, Chaos Emeralds, and planet Mobius. Even for Archie it's something of a Twilight Zone-ish venture. Sonic also collects his.... one billionth ring which would feature in a few more stories throughout the years as something akin to a genie lamp. Given how unimportant Power Rings, or now just 'magic' rings are in the books waning years, I've grown a healthy respect for when Archie (and SatAM) tried to really keep them around as plot devices and important fixtures of the mythos.

Mecha Madness A no-brainer inclusion. One of the first, and best 3-part arcs in the series history. Action packed, Mecha Sonic vs. Bunnie, Mecha Sonic vs. Knuckles, Mecha Sonic vs. Mecha Knuckles, and Sonic vs. Nack just to wrap up. We're smack in the middle of the SatAM era where the art's top quality, and it knows how to blend good action with comedy.

 

I'll get around to three more at some point. Knuckles Lost Tribe, and Sonic Kids are prime candidates I want to revisit. I honestly decided to axe Endgame.

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@Dash Speed

Considering all that both Julian and especially Robo-Robotnik had done, Sonic more than gets to be quippy.

 

@Sonictrainer 

I forgot how hilarious Crazy-Eggman was at times.

RCO016.jpg:lol::.

On 9/2/2018 at 4:20 PM, RedFox99 said:

Is it me or does the fact that the characters kind of disregard Sonic's feelings about Eggman's mental breakdown kind of rub me the wrong way?

Only Tails really bothered me at all. But not much.

On 9/2/2018 at 4:03 PM, Dash Speed said:

Yeah, proof that Sonic is written on the tip of the tongue depending on the plot. He back to making cracks at villains the next issue and pretty doesn't change how he acts around his rivals.

Sonic's a perpetual Pete Pan complex in a story where complex adult situations happen and he's like the most innocently/impulsively child like in how to conduct his problems in front of him. I don't feel bad for Sonic one bit, he has not earned it and is not a character that I see introspecting/maturing his attitude for long since the stories are episodic.

He's a teenager. Teenagers are inherently immature and/or uncertain at times. And you're not really supposed to be feeling bad for him there anyway--just noticing that even he feels unusually reserved about what happened.

Also, SEGA mandates and standard writing trappings.

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Well, I dunno really, Sonic isn't pulling any punches with his "witty remarks" (and the "gags" that were pulled especially in the earlier numbers, though others did those as well), but I feel like in pre-reboot continuity he was shown to have the conciousness about it maybe not being the best way to interact with other people. Something I didn't see issued in post-reboot continuity.

So well, I dunno, he felt less of a jerk back in pre-reboot as far as I'm concerned.

And he was basically considering that fight as one of the many performed earlier, so when Eggman "got broken" due to the losses and all, I'm not that surprised about Sonic getting a bit confused and worried over what was going on...

---

On another note, wasn't it estabilished in the Archie Sonic Comics that Antoine is a coyote?

So, you know, I wonder what'd happen to that tidbit of knowledge were the FF brought into somewhere else... Yeah, my mind thinks the strangest things whenever it has few nodes left to compute other things than trying to understand the messiest product of modern science to this day...

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Again, that happened in the Archie comics.

I was wondering more about outside of the whole Archie thing.

 

Like, if they ever manage to get into some other Sonic related thing or summat.

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#201: The beginning of the Iron Dominion saga. With Eggman believed to be defeat, New Mobotropolis is holding a celebration concert with Mina and her band giving a live performance. Sonic is visibly distressed over Eggman's breakdown, with Sally helping to console him. Suddenly though, Monkey Khan attacks the concert, ranting and raving about the celebration, as he reveals that the Iron Queen has taken over the Eggman Empire. We see Snively and the Iron Queen talk as lovers, despite the Iron Queen having a king that she plans to usurp. We also see Dmitri hoping to have his people have more leniency put apon them for him helping Snively, but is betrayed when Snively refuses to change the Dark Egg Legion's situation. Sonic and Monkey Khan run off to confront the Iron Queen, with MK telling Sonic how hopeless the situation maybe.

The B story has Espio being told from a clan member who belonged with the Destrutix that with 4 houses combined to now follow the Iron Queen, Espio being from one of those houses, is ordered to abandon the Freedom Fighters and join the Iron Queen, being ordered to intercept Sonic and MK.

It's an OK issue. Considering how the Iron Dominion storyline will last for 16 issues through Sonic the Hedgehog #201-#212 and Sonic Universe #13-#16, it makes sense that we have an issue which is more about setting up the events for the coming year with MK's arrival, the fact that MK is bitter because he has lost everyone in the war, the setup of MK and Sally's romance as MK finds out Sonic and Sally aren't together anymore, the Iron Queen's rule with Snively, Dmitri plotting against the Iron Dominion when he finds out they are just as bad as Eggman, and Espio's past coming to haunt him with his duty putting him against the Freedom Fighters. Certainly, things will begin to get more interesting as the we get more into the storyline.

#202: With #201 being the setup issue, I'd say #202's role is to basically establish that the Iron Dominion is a credible threat, and that they aren't just going to be the bad guys for a couple of issues. Nothing much happens in #202, really most of the issue is dedicated to MK and Sonic fighting the Iron Dominion, with their bat clan, the Iron King, the Dark Egg Legion and finally Espio betraying Sonic, showing off how powerful they are, as Sonic and MK are battered and are forced to retreat. They tell the council of how strong the Iron Dominion is, with Knuckles in shock over Espio's betrayal, and MK revealing himself to be a king.

The B story begins to show us the Iron Queen's backstory, about how she used to be with the Overlanders before the Great War, how she is basically a mage but with technology rather than magic, and after being exiled, she became evil so she could rule the world in spite. I'll say it right now, I don't mind the Iron Queen but I don't find her very interesting. I do think she is a credible threat and I do like her power set of being able to control electronics, but as a character, I don't find her terribly compelling. Honestly I think the best thing about her is the fact that she gives Snively depth really.

#203-#204: With Sonic and MK's defeat, we find MK is in a bad state. He clearly blames himself for all that has happened to him and the people he knows, not helped by the fact that some orphans think he is mean for destroying Mina's concert and attacking Sonic. Things get worse however as the Iron Queen decides to attack New Mobotropolis head on, with her using her tech powers to control Bunnie's cybernetics, causing her to attack the Freedom Fighters. They try to contain her, but it is no use, with Bunnie being worn out due to her only being part cybernetic. A guilty MK tries to fight the Iron Queen to free Bunnie, but instead the Iron Queen gets the crown off of MK which protected him from her influence.

MK now goes on the rampage, this time not getting tired as his cybernetics are fully built in. The Freedom Fighters stall him while Sonic goes to the lake for a magic ring, as that is what they used to get MK under control the last time he went beserk, way back in #60. Sonic succeeds, with MK breaking down fully as Sonic realises why MK doesn't have any friends left: he went beserk before, wiped them all out and the Iron Queen gave him his free will back just to mock him. Antoine himself goes mental at MK for Bunnie's predicament, but things cool down when the orphans realise that MK is a good guy, and that they lost their parents due to Eggman, they have to have hope, and that MK must have hope too.

The B story of #203-#204 has Espio turn up on Angel Island, apparently on orders to take the Master Emerald. He and Knuckles fight it out, with Espio hanging Knuckles off the ledge of the island. Knuckles makes it clear that he will do whatever it takes to protect the Master Emerald, even if it means taking Espio out, and likewise, Espio would have to kill Knuckles if he wants the Master Emerald. Espio pulls Knuckles back from the brink, stating that information apparently contradicts his orders, presumably in some kind of loop hole. Espio gives some information that will become relevant in the Journey to the East story in Sonic Universe, basically that there are 4 clans, Espio belongs to the ninja clan, all 4 clans are ruled over by the Iron Queen, and that to stop her, they would need to break the clans out of her control. Espio flees, giving little else away, with Knuckles sad to see his friend go.

Pretty good 2 parter. Again, definetly more to show what a threat the Iron Queen herself is, and also gives MK alot of fleshing out with his dark backstory. To tell the truth, I never really liked MK in his original appearances from around #55-#90 I believe. He just seemed like another Sonic, in terms of personality, but far more annoying and even more arrogant. I like the MK we get in the Iron Dominion saga, and I think this fleshing out we receive in #204 really helps his character be unique and stand out. The B story is fine, showcasing Espio and how much his betrayal is having on the rest of the Chaotix with Knuckles in this story, and helping lead up to the Universe story that will tie-in to the Iron Dominion saga.

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I love that this arc finally gives us a proper explanation for where Espio's modern ninja traits come from, it gives him and Lightning Lynx a ton of sudden depth, and yeah Monkey Khan and the rest of the Journey to the West proxies were part of the reason I don't particularly like the the run from #56 to #64.

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On 9/4/2018 at 5:45 PM, DabigRG said:

He's a teenager. Teenagers are inherently immature and/or uncertain at times. And you're not really supposed to be feeling bad for him there anyway--just noticing that even he feels unusually reserved about what happened.

Also, SEGA mandates and standard writing trappings.

I think it stands out more due to the Archie continuation mostly consisting of teenagers, and yet most of them have matured due to their experiences and could easily be mistaken for young adults or even middle aged in how they behave (or even look in cases like Rotor), making Sonic look like a man child who has Sally and the other Freedom Fighters act like his mother. To compare in many other continuations like Boom or the games he is relatively no less mature or stable than most other characters.

The Iron Dominion arc was a strange one since it felt like they were trying to make the other cast more fallible, especially Sally and Monkey Khan, but there was still this dignity level and a more mature way of approaching their mistakes against Sonic's, like previously stated, an almost tragic Peter Pan-ish disposition. It's strange because I've seen protagonists that are relatively simple minded and immature compared to their supporting cast but still feel like they're equals, though it might just be because, maturity or not, most of them still have the same amount of foibles and cartoonish impulses, hence Sonic looking more 'at home' next to the games cast.

Post reboot tried to balance out the whimsy between the whole cast but I think they still struggled besides the games cast. Hell even in SatAm most of the cast besides Antoine were only superficially immature and idiot prone besides Sonic, even Dulcy usually behaved herself besides when her clumsiness betrayed her.

To compare they did the opposite with the villains. While in the games Eggman is usually the butt monkey in the bad guy hierarchy being a childish scientist among super sinister demi-gods and other calculating abominations (badly written plots aside) in Archie most of the villains, regardless of power, all feel equally fallible and in a legitimate struggle for power, with Eggman only winning because of his head start and pure persistence. (While it wasn't the best written plot, I'll credit Lost Worlds for trying to replicate this with the Deadly Six).

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6 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

The arc trying to shoehorn such an unfitting explanation to Espio's ninja stuff is part of why I dislike Iron Dominion so much. 

I hated that too. It wasn't enough for me to hate the whole thing but I was definitely not a fan of the Espio subplot. Had the most boring SU issue of Journey to the East as well.

Also wasn't a fan of Vector's downunda thing either. And the less said about Charmy's colony the better...

Yeah, just wasn't a fan of the backstories the Chaotix had in Archie.

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On 9/15/2018 at 10:41 AM, E-122-Psi said:

 

Post reboot tried to balance out the whimsy between the whole cast but I think they still struggled besides the games cast. Hell even in SatAm most of the cast besides Antoine were only superficially immature and idiot prone besides Sonic, even Dulcy usually behaved herself besides when her clumsiness betrayed her.

 

That may have had something to do with her supposedly older age and new sense of responsibility.

On 9/15/2018 at 10:41 AM, E-122-Psi said:

 

To compare they did the opposite with the villains. While in the games Eggman is usually the butt monkey in the bad guy hierarchy being a childish scientist among super sinister demi-gods and other calculating abominations (badly written plots aside) in Archie most of the villains, regardless of power, all feel equally fallible and in a legitimate struggle for power, with Eggman only winning because of his head start and pure persistence. (While it wasn't the best written plot, I'll credit Lost Worlds for trying to replicate this with the Deadly Six).

How so?

 

On 9/15/2018 at 6:08 AM, VEDJ-F said:

The arc trying to shoehorn such an unfitting explanation to Espio's ninja stuff is part of why I dislike Iron Dominion so much. 

 

23 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I hated that too. It wasn't enough for me to hate the whole thing but I was definitely not a fan of the Espio subplot. Had the most boring SU issue of Journey to the East as well.

Also wasn't a fan of Vector's downunda thing either. And the less said about Charmy's colony the better...

Yeah, just wasn't a fan of the backstories the Chaotix had in Archie.

That's kinda what happens when you have to retcon in and consolidate more up to date information and themes with what came before.

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

 

That may have had something to do with her supposedly older age and new sense of responsibility.

Was Dulcy's age ever stated? I mean Antoine is usually listed as the oldest Freedom Fighter and he pretty existed as the one guy who made Sonic look level headed.

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

How so?

Well the recurring theme for most villains in the games pre-Generations is that they are pretty much one-note entities of evil and 'above' Eggman in terms of competence, power, fearsomeness, pretty much everything. They tended to only recognise Eggman when they could use him and then swat him away when he was no longer needed. Hell even some of the lower tier antagonists like Rouge played him like a fiddle.

In the comics and Lost World-onwards games, most of the villains are as mortal as Eggman, or at least more fallible than the 'final boss' types and Eggman has a lot of control already, thus it's more both villains trying to fight and connive to usurp the other instead of one having blatant control. The Deadly Six and Eggman took turns waiting for an ideal opportunity to turn on the other, same for the comics with Snively, the Iron Queen, the Legion, Team Moebius, etc, to the point that Eggman considers the backstabbing hierarchy a fun little game.

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2 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

Was Dulcy's age ever stated? I mean Antoine is usually listed as the oldest Freedom Fighter and he pretty existed as the one guy who made Sonic look level headed.

In the context of preboot, I think she was meant to be 14.

However, I was referring to post-reboot.

2 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

 

Well the recurring theme for most villains in the games pre-Generations is that they are pretty much one-note entities of evil and 'above' Eggman in terms of competence, power, fearsomeness, pretty much everything. They tended to only recognise Eggman when they could use him and then swat him away when he was no longer needed. Hell even some of the lower tier antagonists like Rouge played him like a fiddle.

In the comics and Lost World-onwards games, most of the villains are as mortal as Eggman, or at least more fallible than the 'final boss' types and Eggman has a lot of control already, thus it's more both villains trying to fight and connive to usurp the other instead of one having blatant control. The Deadly Six and Eggman took turns waiting for an ideal opportunity to turn on the other, same for the comics with Snively, the Iron Queen, the Legion, Supression Squad, etc, to the point that Eggman considers the backstabbing hierarchy a fun little game.

Oh yeah.

There's also Nega, but I suppose he's more of an equal partner half the time anyway.

2 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

Was Dulcy's age ever stated? I mean Antoine is usually listed as the oldest Freedom Fighter and he pretty existed as the one guy who made Sonic look level headed.

In the context of preboot, I think she was meant to be 14.

However, I was referring to post-reboot.

2 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

 

Well the recurring theme for most villains in the games pre-Generations is that they are pretty much one-note entities of evil and 'above' Eggman in terms of competence, power, fearsomeness, pretty much everything. They tended to only recognise Eggman when they could use him and then swat him away when he was no longer needed. Hell even some of the lower tier antagonists like Rouge played him like a fiddle.

In the comics and Lost World-onwards games, most of the villains are as mortal as Eggman, or at least more fallible than the 'final boss' types and Eggman has a lot of control already, thus it's more both villains trying to fight and connive to usurp the other instead of one having blatant control. The Deadly Six and Eggman took turns waiting for an ideal opportunity to turn on the other, same for the comics with Snively, the Iron Queen, the Legion, Supression Squad, etc, to the point that Eggman considers the backstabbing hierarchy a fun little game.

Oh yeah.

There's also Nega, but I suppose he's more of an equal partner half the time anyway.

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