Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Sega DogTagz]

You guys think that with all the Echidna's gone that theyll pave the way for the Nocturnus Clan to be featured more often?

 

 

They kinda got a re-introduction in the Encyclopedia that came out a little while ago. Bringing them to the forefront of the comics is a possibility in that light. 

[Aquaslash]

I actually wouldn't mind if by some weird twist of magic or chaos emeralds or something that Julie-Su and the echidna legions all disappeared only to come back AS Shade and the Nocturnus.  It's not like they have to have the same backstory as the games, and I think Flynn has the creative chops to make an idea that crazy work.

[Mogtaki]

Crazy ideas don't work with the public.

[Sega DogTagz]

I actually wouldn't mind if by some weird twist of magic or chaos emeralds or something that Julie-Su and the echidna legions all disappeared only to come back AS Shade and the Nocturnus.  It's not like they have to have the same backstory as the games, and I think Flynn has the creative chops to make an idea that crazy work.

 

The Nocturne already exist in the Archie lure. It would take some magic twist to reincarnate the legion into something that already exists.

 

Assimilation might be a worthwhile pursuit to follow though. I could see Lien-Da filling in for the inevitable Shade defection nicely.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Sega DogTagz

[goku262002]

Seriously, this is like the best cover ever. of all time.

Source.

[Badnik Zero]

That's another good point. It's entirely possible the settlement included the Bioware characters, right? Or does Sega and Archie just not give a damn about the Nocturne. At this point it's four years ago, I don't even care. About Lien-Da and the Twilight Cage, we aren't really given an origin for this girl - we are just supposed to accept at face value that she is a super bitch psychopath. It would have helped a lot to see how they lived in that place, aside from the few panels of brooding and killing her dad. I dunno if anyone's familiar with the Drizzt novels, but their Dark Elves came from a world where murder, matricide, and all kinds of backstabbing were applauded by a sick aristocracy. In what context is Lien-Da such a freakin' power freak basically? Was all the Twilight Cage such a twisted place? Most secondary villains are given a reason in this book now, the Iron Queen is given a reason, Thrash is given a reason, the Battle Birds, Finitevus to some degree has a reason. Lien-Da is just a girl in leather with a whip, and no reason.

Edited January 3, 2013 by American Ristar

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

That's another good point. It's entirely possible the settlement included the Bioware characters, right? 

Er, no? Despite the resemblances, they were created for separate medium and have a whole different history behind them. And given how they're separate from the Legion in the Archie-lore, that's even more doubtful Sega would even let the settlement reach that, especially when Penders had nothing to do with them.

[JaidynReiman]

The whole idea for Penders suing EA/Bioware was because of the fact that they appeared "similar" to the Dark Legion. Penders had nothing to do with it, but according to him they were clones of the Dark Legion (his clones of Sega's own echidnas) and therefore a copyright infringement for a copyright he filed two years after they first appeared.

 

Of course he legally shouldn't have any hold on the Archie characters he created in all actuality, but this is a far greater stretch.

[Badnik Zero]

I was thinking more like, Sega should ask Penders to drop his claim on their Bioware creations, since I heard he planned to go ahead with that separately regardless of the outcome with Archie. It makes sense to me that if they're giving him rights to his Archie work, part of the cease fire is that he has to drop his right to complain about Chronicles. That can go in a settlement, right? Are you guys explaining this to me like I don't know what's going on?

Edited January 3, 2013 by American Ristar

[JaidynReiman]

^ They were entirely separate proceedings. We never heard anything further on Penders' other cases. Well, I'm pretty sure he only had two, one of which was the one with EA/Sega. The settlement was with Archie, not Sega. I suppose its possible that somewhere the case was thrown out and I just missed it, but I don't think it was.

[turbojet]

A bit of a tangent I know but there's nothing wrong with a female character being designed and/or written by a feminist. If anything I believe every female character should be designed and/or written by a feminist. (I don't just mean any old feminist obviously I mean a feminist who can write well)

I see your point and advice you to read Ultimate anything. The female characters there are in good hands and are hardly sexualized. Kitty Pryde,for example, is the leader of the X-Men and no one questions her leadership except other women.

 

I like Lien-Da strictly because what she was to Eggman's Dark Legion. She was coming into her own as a villain and definitely was finally coming into her own as a character. Now does this have to do with me liking femme fatales? First off, when has Lien-Da ever been portrayed as such? She is more Baroness than femme fatale since she has never to my memory ever used her sexuality as a weapon(It is still a Sonic the Hedgehog comic after all). Yes, she cracks a whip and wears tight leather pants, but she acted ruthlessly and with intelligence. She was more of a Azula-type character except clearly flawed and too full of herself.

[Rally the Cheetah]

I like Lien-Da strictly because what she was to Eggman's Dark Legion. She was coming into her own as a villain and definitely was finally coming into her own as a character. Now does this have to do with me liking femme fatales? First off, when has Lien-Da ever been portrayed as such? She is more Baroness than femme fatale since she has never to my memory ever used her sexuality as a weapon(It is still a Sonic the Hedgehog comic after all). Yes, she cracks a whip and wears tight leather pants, but she acted ruthlessly and with intelligence. She was more of a Azula-type character except clearly flawed and too full of herself.

Funny you should mention Azula, I always pictured Lien-Da having her kind of voice. 

Anyway looking at all this Penders business, gotta say I feel for Ian. Wiping out that much of the cast has gotta hurt. As many of your have mentioned it really messes up the plot now as well with the future Mobius and all that. I dare say if I were in his shoes I'd consider an actual reboot if possible. Trying to get rid of so many characters in a believable fashion is near impossible. As it is this whole thing with Thrash sending the echidnas off somewhere is, well, weak but in all actuality there's really no alternative. Ian can't really kill off the characters because we know they're around in the future. Can't keep them or he'll get in legal trouble. So they just get on the plot bus and drive off into the sunset.  

[Vertekins]

Ian can't really kill off the characters because we know they're around in the future.

 

I thought that the arcs set in the future were not set in continuity concrete? Or that they were of an alternate Mobius? Not entirely sure about the latter though.

[Ducktor Naldush]

 Or that they were of an alternate Mobius?

 

This one. I don't remember if Ian was the one that confirmed this, but I'm sure it was said that whenever we take a look into the future, it's always an alternate Mobius.

Except for Silver;  he really comes from the future of the Prime Zone. At least, that's what the Encyclopedia says.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Nail-it Nald

[SuperLink]

Yeah Silver's Mobius Prime is real, but I'm pretty sure one or more of the Mobius: XYL has been deconfirmed already in some way or another.

Heck.. this is one way to do it.

 

I never really liked the XYL series' anyway so I can't say I'm bothered if any of them were debunked from Prime canon.

[Sega DogTagz]

 About Lien-Da and the Twilight Cage, we aren't really given an origin for this girl - we are just supposed to accept at face value that she is a super bitch psychopath. It would have helped a lot to see how they lived in that place, aside from the few panels of brooding and killing her dad.

 

We've actually gotten plenty of origin backstory about Lien-Da, enough to establish why she is the way she is anyway.

 

She was a much more wiling cooperator in a dog-eat-dog regime until she was stabbed in the back by her more ruthless brother. Who If I recall was the only person she actually trusted at the time. Pretty much left to rot, she developed a mentality where she had to be the most ruthless presence in the room less someone else would step in to take what she believed was rightfully her's.

 

A lifetime of setbacks moldered her into the all consuming thirst for power we see today. Time and time again she got stuck as second fiddle.

[Mangoaxe5]

I still doubt that the Penders characters are gone for good.

[Mogtaki]

I still doubt that the Penders characters are gone for good.

 

Where is the hope you're finding? Add to the discussion.

[Mangoaxe5]

Where is the hope you're finding? Add to the discussion.

Where is the proof that I'm wrong?

Personally I don't like how fans are jumping to concusions so soon.

[goku262002]

Where is the proof that I'm wrong?

Personally I don't like how fans are jumping to concusions so soon.

 

^This. we overall don't really know if they are gone or not.

Ian could just be just sitting back laughing at us over the panicked outbursts when everything could be ok by the time this is done. thats why I'm not really taking sides on this anymore because it just didn't feel quite right.

Edited January 5, 2013 by goku262002

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Where is the hope you're finding? Add to the discussion.

You remember when Ian had Sally killed before Operation Clean Sweep reset reality? Then after Sonic set things back a few minutes before she got shot and saved her life before she got roboticized? How about when Antoine took a point blank explosion from a Metal Sonic and his hand fell limp to imply that he died, only for it to turn out he survived and is in a coma? I know a few people were hit by the latter and some were glad for the former.

 

This wouldn't be the first time Ian trolled us with the narrative like this. So stop making conclusions and getting on to people for doubting this until we get through the whole arc. We're only at Part 2 to know everything and we don't even know all of what the settlement allows, for damn's sake. 

Edited January 6, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Mogtaki]

Where is the proof that I'm wrong?

Personally I don't like how fans are jumping to concusions so soon.

 

What? I was more asking you to say why you think so and whether there's any information that this is not going to happen.

You remember when Ian had Sally killed before Operation Clean Sweep reset reality? Then after Sonic set things back a few minutes before she got shot and saved her life before she got roboticized? How about when Antoine took a point blank explosion from a Metal Sonic and his hand fell limp to imply that he died, only for it to turn out he survived and is in a coma? I know a few people were hit by the latter and some were glad for the former.

 

This wouldn't be the first time Ian trolled us with the narrative like this. So stop making conclusions and getting on to people for doubting this until we get through the whole arc. We're only at Part 2 to know everything and we don't even know all of what the settlement allows, for damn's sake. 

 

Yarr! I think the only problem is Ian said things change rapidly and this was definitely a sudden and weird change. I guess all we can do is wait until March or so before we get the answer, huh?

[Mangoaxe5]

Personally I think that this happened right before the settlement happened. Remember Archie works six months ahead of the current issue that's out. Also giving that the preview of Sonic Archives vol. 21 cover was released not that long ago I'm willing to believe that Archie can still use Penders stories and characters.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Vampfox

[MamboCat]

It could be something much more subtle, I reckon.

 

Perhaps there could be an general decision to focus more on the game characters than the SatAM lot and that it's nothing to do with the Penders stuff?

[Mogtaki]

Personally I think that this happened right before the settlement happened. Remember Archie works six months ahead of the current issue that's out. Also giving that the preview of Sonic Archives vol. 21 cover was released not that long ago I'm willing to believe that Archie can still use Penders stories and characters.

 

The settlement first started in March, so I'm not sure. They would had taken precautions and might had been more confident that they were going to win against it, but recently maybe not.

 

The problem I've seen is the art is a bit rushed in the latest issue. The backgrounds are good and all, but the characters look rushed and anatomically incorrect in some parts. I worry a tad.