Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[JaidynReiman]

It could just be covering bases, but the case of Theta makes no sense since it wasn't created by Penders, and so regardless of what storyline it was namedroppd, it's just not his (Same with the "Tikhaos" concept, especially since both Tikal and Chaos are SEGA characters to boot). But, in any case, the name change doesn't feel like a big deal to me. "Eta" would techinically come into sequence after "Zeta" and before "Theta" so it still works. Hell, they'll probably still use the "Theta" name down the line, just not in this particular instance.

A concept that is better off having been forgotten forever in the void. If dropping the whole M:30Y later means we never have to think about that abomination ever again, that'd please me greatly.

 

Now they can bring back Tikal and Chaos WITHOUT completely and totally destroying them. Not that they will.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Usually when I hear "build upon the games" it comes off as copy and expand on what the games did rather than be it's own spin-off brand of Sonic, or rather:

• Get rid of SatAM
• Get rid of anything that wasn't in the games
• Put everything else that was in the games and only in the games and do more with the same old stuff and nothing else

In short, less of a unique spin-off of the games with other parts of the franchise, and more of a total replica of the games in comic form.

 

And most of the time my response was "the games can build off themselves."

 

If none of that was the case of it being exactly like the games (and I'm pretty damn sure it is with some people given that argument on the semi-reboot a hundred pages ago), then it would have helped if that was heavily clarified, so that people ranting against the notion of "build upon the games" wouldn't be so reactionary (not that it would stop some from ranting regardless). And I know there were those who made that very crystal clear, but others sent more mixed messages and brought back that paranoia. Maybe that was because there was so many unknowns people weren't sure what to expect and assumed the worst? I don't know.

 

Now there was a lot of junk that needed to be cleaned up, but you can't blame people for getting defensive over mixed messages on the notion where they interpret it as something self-centered that it takes away all of the things they've enjoyed in the comic.

 

EDIT: And really, looking back on that debate, I just see tons of people completely misinterpreting things over building off the games to mean "get rid of the non-game stuff". Some people kept up with what others saw as a clusterfuck, and the people who made sense of the clusterfuck weren't sure of the full depth of the changes others wanted. Guess that's what fear does to folks.

Edited December 4, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Zaysho]

Or maybe it would be because we'd like, for once, to see a spinoff of the franchise look like a spinoff of the franchise. In 20 years the closest we had was Sonic the Comic and even that deviated quite away.

EDIT: Oh and Sonic OVA. That was closer still, I suppose. It was great.

 

ArchieSonic isn't all that unrecognizable. Yes, there was a lot of dead weight accumulated over the years from other writers. Yes, said writers used Sonic as a vehicle for superhero nonsense (because there just wasn't enough on the racks already) and SEGA let them run rampant for years (I'd say from 1997-2007). But it eventually began to capture the feeling of "Sonic" again, as it did in its earliest days of publication, even though it was an odd mish-mash of the cartoons and the games. And I think we owe a lot of that to the current creative team for the retooling the series got when Flynn took over in the first place. He cleaned up his predecessors' messes, took a hacksaw to most of that dead weight, and what he deemed still usable, it got repurposed to fit newer standards set by SEGA (who obviously started to give a damn about their flagship's image). I realize it wasn't always perfect, and still tripped over its own continuity a lot, but it's certainly far from unrecognizable even if it's not much like the games.

 

But I'm still talking old universe and we're not supposed to care about it.

 

My point was that I felt like people get caught up in what is and isn't "canon" ("canon" in this case, being "just like the games"). And they do this while comparing very different interations of the franchise. But they each have their own set canon, universes, and even interpretations, and none of them were exactly like the games, but they were all "Sonic" at the core and perfectly recognizable. You can argue quality seven ways to Sunday, but that's not the point.

 

EDIT: And, ChaosSupremeSonic said it better than I could, so just listen to him.

 

A concept that is better off having been forgotten forever in the void. If dropping the whole M:30Y later means we never have to think about that abomination ever again, that'd please me greatly.

 

Now they can bring back Tikal and Chaos WITHOUT completely and totally destroying them. Not that they will.

 

In all fairness, you barely had to think about it after that arc anyway. Archie wasn't going to touch for a long while even before Penders started his little crusade. Not that I'll miss it anyway, just sayin'.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Zaysho

[Jet Prower]

As long as I am not looked odd upon by you guys for that simple fear of the comics losing their originality, that's all that worries me really and it becoming too predictable, which I think is a fair concern. I do agree with what CSS said though. I do think the comics should honestly be their own thing while still keeping some of the game elements in there. We don't want this turning into, the video games, extended version with more details.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

 We don't want this turning into, the video games, extended version with more details.

What's funny about that is making it into the extended and detailed version of the video games is fucking pointless and redundant as hell when the video games can already do that and more on their own without help from the comics.

 

An adaptation is one thing, it does many similar things from the games, taking its themes and main concept while blending it into its own different world; you never had Sally assisting against Perfect Chaos in the games for example. But fear runs amok and makes people think of the worst unless they can see things much clearly.

[ElectricAngel]

As long as I am not looked odd upon by you guys for that simple fear of the comics losing their originality, that's all that worries me really and it becoming too predictable, which I think is a fair concern. I do agree with what CSS said though. I do think the comics should honestly be their own thing while still keeping some of the game elements in there. We don't want this turning into, the video games, extended version with more details.

I completely agree. Although I am enjoying the new story arc, I would love to see original stories. That's pretty much the reason I read the comics, because they are so different from the game universe. And I like that. But I don't think we'll see nothing but game adaptions from here on. Didn't Flynn say that the new story arc after the crossover was supposed to reel in new readers? I'm guessing the game centered story is supposed to do just that. From what we've seen there are several new characters so I think we'll get a lot of new content. Not to mention they can create some clever stories with this whole new continuity thing they're doing. On another note, I received StH #255 in the mail today, and yeah I can see why most people hate the art. The style sorta seems to jump all over the place, and Tails looks, um, a little older? I'm not sure what to say about his design. 

[Big Panda]

And in a stunning turn of events, #255 has appeared at Forbidden Planet, a mere week after Sonic Universe

[Dejimon11]

And yet no previews

[Mauro Fonseca]

What's funny about that is making it into the extended and detailed version of the video games is fucking pointless and redundant as hell when the video games can already do that and more on their own without help from the comics.

 

An adaptation is one thing, it does many similar things from the games, taking its themes and main concept while blending it into its own different world; you never had Sally assisting against Perfect Chaos in the games for example. But fear runs amok and makes people think of the worst unless they can see things much clearly.

The whole comic is pointless then..

 

YES I WANT THE COMIC TO BE GAMES + EXTRA. I'VE WAITED 20 YEARS FOR SOMETHING TO BE LIKE THAT. OTHER FRANCHISES HAVE IT. POKÉMON HAS IT. ZELDA HAS IT. MARIO HAS IT. MEGA MAN HAS IT. WHY MUST SONIC BE CHAINED TO 20 YEAR OLD CARTOONS INSTEAD?

 

I don't mind having the SatAM cast in. I mind them being the focus. I don't mind having AoSTH characters in. I mind them being the focus. And by being the focus I mean I mind them being the focus over game content and characters since FOR ONCE I'd like to have a spinoff ABOUT THE GAMES.

 

EDIT: I mean, sorry about losing my lid here, but holy christ am I tired of the "WELL THE GAMES HAVE THE GAMES FUCK OFF" argument.

 

EDIT EDIT: Cleaning a bit of bile here now I'm more calmed down.

[Tenko]

I do have to admit that the Megaman Megamix/Gigamix manga as well as the Archie comics do manage a good mix of original and source material content. Something like that for Sonic, if that is what Archie's plan is, would be most welcome.

People needn't get worried or scared about it getting some uniformity. The SatAM cast is still here and with more game centric designs, the original characters (besides he who shall not be named's) are still there, they are still using old game characters too. So nothing to get bent out of shape over.

Source material plus extra mixed in a cohesive way is what most successful and well liked side book/comic's are. Yes Sonic was popular before this even with the mess it was, but to me that says a lot of the tenacity of the Sonic fan rather than how good the work was. You look back now and there are quite a lot of terrible terrible arcs and art back then. We did put up with a lot.

Most even freely admit the Sonic comics had gone way off the rails at times and he who shall not be named's convoluted works really didn't help, so I think personally loosing those was a godsend. But each to their own. I'm enjoying the new look comics.

[Jet Prower]

The whole comic is pointless then..

 

YES I WANT THE COMIC TO BE GAMES + EXTRA. I'VE WAITED 20 YEARS FOR SOMETHING TO BE LIKE THAT. OTHER FRANCHISES HAVE IT. POKÉMON HAS IT. ZELDA HAS IT. MARIO HAS IT. MEGA MAN HAS IT. WHY MUST SONIC BE CHAINED TO 20 YEAR OLD CARTOONS INSTEAD?

 

I don't mind having the SatAM cast in. I mind them being the focus. I don't mind having AoSTH characters in. I mind them being the focus. And by being the focus I mean I mind them being the focus over game content and characters since FOR ONCE I'd like to have a spinoff ABOUT THE GAMES.

 

EDIT: I mean, sorry about losing my lid here, but holy christ am I tired of the "WELL THE GAMES HAVE THE GAMES FUCK OFF" argument.

 

EDIT EDIT: Cleaning a bit of bile here now I'm more calmed down.

 

If they are just going to follow the games and nothing but the games, they should get another comic then. Turning these comics into game + extra will be very dull and boring very quickly is my main point all along. Why would I be waiting eagerly for a comic when I already know everything that is going to happen? If you don't use original source material, then whats the point of being exited over something when there is no unknown at all. We already would know what is going to happen, so it would just get dull real fast, to me at least.

[Sparky]

I like the comics being a lot closer to the games, but one thing that I REALLY like that they are doing now is continuing off of and building up from the games' events. They aren't showing the word-for-word adaptation but instead they are doing it like a "sequel" of a sort. Shadow Fall seems to be a good example of this. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

The whole comic is pointless then..

Or you reading them, if you want to go this route.

 

 

 

YES I WANT THE COMIC TO BE GAMES + EXTRA. I'VE WAITED 20 YEARS FOR SOMETHING TO BE LIKE THAT. OTHER FRANCHISES HAVE IT. POKÉMON HAS IT. ZELDA HAS IT. MARIO HAS IT. MEGA MAN HAS IT. WHY MUST SONIC BE CHAINED TO 20 YEAR OLD CARTOONS INSTEAD?

It's funny because those other franchises aren't that different from Archie!Sonic as far as having major differences from their other verses.

 

 

 

I don't mind having the SatAM cast in. I mind them being the focus. I don't mind having AoSTH characters in. I mind them being the focus. And by being the focus I mean I mind them being the focus over game content and characters since FOR ONCE I'd like to have a spinoff ABOUT THE GAMES.

Well others don't mind them being the focus even over game content and characters, so long as everything else, such as the game content and characters, get it as well.

 

I mean, you say you don't want an exact replica of the games, not minding the non-game stuff. Great, no problems, your opposition might calm down and agree if you're sticking to that. I come in and point out the problem of having an exact replica of the games (and by exact I mean 100%, down to the core, no SatAM, no AoSTH, Game content only), but with more detail, and you flip you lid. This is what I'm talking about in sending mixed messages that get people suspicious and defensive and put you right back at square one.

[Dejimon11]

yeah im going to sound like an idiot here but here we go

 

 

 

 FOR ONCE I'd like to have a spinoff ABOUT THE GAMES.

 

EDIT: I mean, sorry about losing my lid here, but holy christ am I tired of the "WELL THE GAMES HAVE THE GAMES FUCK OFF" argument.

 

EDIT EDIT: Cleaning a bit of bile here now I'm more calmed down.

 

You had it. it was called Sonic the Comic by fleetway and for goodness sakes man i know that this argument is irritating but losing you lid aint going to fix the problem its going to make it worse.

 

in a seriousness note id like to see the comics to have game elements and not stray too far from its original source of material but at the same time have its own identity which it seems to be doing now. Id like to see the FF, Archie cast and SEGA cast and as for the focus being on the game characters thats what sonic universe is for

 

One a side note: One criticism that this book gets that annoys me is if they introduce and original character mainly because people will react saying "it doesnt look like a sonic character OMG mary sue/gary stu" which makes them act like hipocrates because SEGA has created  cast that look out of place with the main cast(deadly six, black doom, erazor djinn etc) i never understood why it causes such drama 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

in a seriousness note id like to see the comics to have game elements and not stray too far from its original source of material but at the same time have its own identity which it seems to be doing now. Id like to see the FF, Archie cast and SEGA cast and as for the focus being on the game characters thats what sonic universe is for

But that's sort of what they're saying. They're not against it having its own identity, developing new material, or keeping some of the old stuff that isn't a clusterfuck to them while making it more. It doesn't have to be 100% like the games, but something they can identify as fitting with the games. Correct?

 

Except I'm more under the impression they want the FF and Archie Cast to be secondary to the SEGA cast, and to that I say keep blending them like they've always done, have the FF and Archie Characters mix with the SEGA cast without a care of who gets focus so long as everyone else gets focus too.

[Toby]

I'd like to play devil's advocate and mention that I never felt Sonic the Comic was all that close to the games. It had some pretty pants-on-head idiotic takes on several aspects of the series.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Well Super Sonic being a superpowered, but evil alter-ego is quite a major shift from being close to the games. Or Shadow being created by the Drakkon Empire instead of Prof. Gerald. (Seriously, I'm just looking at the wiki here)

 

In fact, they're actually no different from Archie in being different from the games, if not more so.

[Toby]

I agree. I just think it's silly when people say that Sonic the Comic was much closer to the games, because, aside from having landmarks and badniks from the games, it was a completely different animal.

 

Also, the designs of the mobians sucked hard. Animal heads on people bodies? No thanks.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Eh, I don't think Archie was any better when they did the same thing. I didn't mind it either way.

[Mogtaki]

I'd like to play devil's advocate and mention that I never felt Sonic the Comic was all that close to the games. It had some pretty pants-on-head idiotic takes on several aspects of the series.

 

Hmm well, aye, Sonic the Comic wasn't meant to be close to the games. It was meant to feature some thing from the game, but they decided early on to take on their own route and make the comic unique...at least, that's what Nigel Dobbyn said to us during his visit to Inverness. The style was going the 2000AD style to which most of the artists came from, if not all of them at one point during the comic's history. (You should totally check out Nigel's deviantart, he has some amazing stuff there and uploaded the old comics he did for StC too).

 

It was something like you'd get minor Mobians like Sonic, Tails, the Flickies and what not who were less technological advance and evolved than the civilised Mobians who were taking on a human-like form, they eventually also did a little Earth crossover saying their dimensions were linked in a fun little issue for the New Year 2000. It's alright not to like them, but from a fan's point of view it made quite a lot of sense as the minor Mobians were seen as wild and out of control with very primitive ancestors while the others are advanced. It's definitely just because we grew up around comics that were of that style.

 

Maybe if Archie ever decided to go to the 2000AD style route...please no. It only worked for StC when it came from Sonic and I doubt they could go THAT dark.

[Adamis]

I agree. I just think it's silly when people say that Sonic the Comic was much closer to the games, because, aside from having landmarks and badniks from the games, it was a completely different animal.

 

Also, the designs of the mobians sucked hard. Animal heads on people bodies? No thanks.

 

That's the nineties for you, where Sega wasn't as present on the comics staff as they are now with Archie (which had as many horrible mobians as StC btw)

I'm sure that, if StC was still "alive" now, it would have more Sega-fied Mobians as Archie.

That comparaison isn't fair, as you're comparing something from the nineties with a present thing where the situations are completely different.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Well he wasn't the one who brought up the comparison, so it's not fair for you to call him out for using it as a springboard.

 

Also, what exactly is this 2000AD style?

Edited December 4, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Dejimon11]

I'd like to play devil's advocate and mention that I never felt Sonic the Comic was all that close to the games. It had some pretty pants-on-head idiotic takes on several aspects of the series.

I agree with this but I keep hearing people say that it is so idk

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I agree with this but I keep hearing people say that it is so idk

Some elements, like the zones, star posts, and badniks were exactly like the games, but other than that things like the characters and their backgrounds were completely different, such as Shadow the Hedgehog being a weapon created by the Drakkon Empire.

 

In fact, just go on a wiki walk and see how different it actually is from the games. I hear it did it's own thing after issue 100, but I don't know.

[Mogtaki]

Well he wasn't the one who brought up the comparison, so it's not fair for you to call him out for using it as a springboard.

 

Also, what exactly is this 2000AD style?

 

Who's calling out? I know it wasn't me, I was just saying "you're right, this is why and what I learned as to why that is right".

 

2000AD is an extremely popular comic series in the UK, Judge Dredd and all that. The style was humanoid while using a darker colour pallet with lots of futuristic goodies. They also used the same comic script format that they used in them, but that was a very minor detail. They went with that because the games didn't exactly give much detail about the worlds so they went their own way, the only way they knew how to.

 

I dunno if it helped or not that the convention I met Nigel at was sponsored by the company that runs 2000AD called "Hi-Ex".