Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Kaotic Kanine]

6 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

A thought about STH 283 that didn't occur to me until just recently, but anyone else think the odds are stacked against Cream a bit much?

Nope 

Not only do the games and Sonic X say otherwise but, in all honesty, this kind of challenge for Cream is the only thing that can possibly redeem the comics (and Ian) for their negligent treatment of Cream since SWC (or since her debut in the comics IMO). If they were gonna keep her on the sidelines and deny her any contribution for three whole years, specifically by having an overused character command her to stay out of missions and battles, then Cream better take part in a major fight and at least do in a good deal of damage!

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

5 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

This might be the lowest point in Flynn's writing.

Ian's lowest point is, and always will be, House of Cards, and to a certain extent World's Unite (which isn't entirely his fault given he was forced to do that one).

The writing done in those arcs cannot be compared to how messed up and poorly ploted they were.

[Forte-Metallix]

21 minutes ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

Nope 

Not only do the games and Sonic X say otherwise but, in all honesty, this kind of challenge for Cream is the only thing that can possibly redeem the comics (and Ian) for their negligent treatment of Cream since SWC (or since her debut in the comics IMO). If they were gonna keep her on the sidelines and deny her any contribution for three whole years, specifically by having an overused character command her to stay out of missions and battles, then Cream better take part in a major fight and at least do in a good deal of damage!

Except when she saved the team from the three E-Series Badniks, which you seem to ignore every time I bring it up.

And it's kind of hard to call Sally "overused", considering she's the leader of the protagonists' team.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Sally's actually not been used as much as she used to be back in the old continuity where she and Sonic took centerfold on almost everything they had a presence in. Aside from Spark of Life where she and Nicole took the forefront, Sally's been either on the sidelines or shared the spotlight with practically everyone else while Sonic took priority.

[Kaotic Kanine]

9 minutes ago, Forte-Metallix said:

Except when she saved the team from the three E-Series Badniks, which you seem to ignore every time I bring it up.

And it's kind of hard to call Sally "overused", considering she's the leader of the protagonists' team.

And I always respond with how that moment was pretty much ruined by Cream's contribution there being ignored in-universe and not developing Cream's character. Instead of the characters thanking Cream for saving them and/or acknowledging that they (Sally especially) misjudged her capabilities, we get Sally angsting about falling for Eggman's trap, and afterwards Cream is still forced on the sidelines and prevented from contributing. But alright, I'll try and stop ignoring that moment since it does technically count. So, after keeping Cream on the sidelines and keeping her from contributing to the comic, except for that one legitimately awesome moment which was quickly overlooked, they better have Cream take part in a major battle and at least do a good deal of damage.

And I will genuinely apologize for calling Sally "overused". I just can't help but feel she is seeing how she gets to be actively involved throughout SWC while Cream is forced to stay on Sky Patrol doing absolutely nothing of actual worth, no thanks to her.

[Forte-Metallix]

Cream is a junior member. She'll get to do more over time. It's just like Tails in Sonic SatAM: He started off downplayed, but as the series went on, he contributed more to the plot, and eventually he became a full-fledged member. And who's to say Sally and the others didn't thank her offscreen? The major plot point at the moment was that the team suffered their first major loss since the saga began.

And quite frankly, isn't the fact that Cream's part of the team of protagonists enough for now? I mean, we still haven't seen the Babylon Rouges since the reboot started, and you don't hear their fans complaining. Heck, I was upset that Comedy Chimp and Fastidious Beaver were underutilized in Worlds Unite; at least Cream has a reason to be there!

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

And what about when Cream helped fight Captain Metal in Pirate Plunder Panic's climax?

Heck, my bae Conquering Storm has been far less utilized than Cream, and she's a high ranking Egg Boss! Even in the Eggman's Dozen arc which starred the Egg Bosses, she was underutilized compared to Nephthys, Maw, Tundra, Akhlut, and even the Battle Lord.

It's safe to say that if you're a member of the main Freedom Fighter group, you're going to get a lot more screentime outside of the Universe arcs.

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Any easier, and her potential impact would risk being pointless. Higher stakes make higher impacts.

As for the issue itself, I don't really get what was wrong with it based on impressions from those who got the issue early. This is the one issue where it doesn't look like they've rushed things, and the whole point of it was to get us geared up for the climax. It wasn't anything special, but after previous issues had them constantly fighting with almost no rest in between, this is kinda what we've been asking for more of.

I can see it not being as gripping as some would like, but given that it's a breather issue and a prelude of what's to come, isn't that kinda the point?

Well, see my second quote cause I'm lazy.

My only major issue with it personally was how some of the extraneous space could have been utilized better. But I think the fact that its essentially a FF commercial, not helped by WOrlds Unite and the Hiatus, is what's making already cranky people a bit short with any disappointment.

Also, you have this huge tail at the end of each of your posts. You wanna do somethin about that?

1 hour ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

Nope 

Not only do the games and Sonic X say otherwise but, in all honesty, this kind of challenge for Cream is the only thing that can possibly redeem the comics (and Ian) for their negligent treatment of Cream since SWC (or since her debut in the comics IMO). If they were gonna keep her on the sidelines and deny her any contribution for three whole years, specifically by having an overused character command her to stay out of missions and battles, then Cream better take part in a major fight and at least do in a good deal of damage!

But that's my concern exactly! I can see her handling the Hooligans no problem; I might be able to see her fight the Witchcarters with a decent bit of effort; heck, with Big and Gemerl backing her up, I can see her totally creaming both! Its the inclusion of Metal Sonic (with a potential Badnik Horde) that concerns me.

[Toby]

I'd be pretty kerfuffled if Cream were able to defeat Nack, Bean, and BARK. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

9 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Also, you have this huge tail at the end of each of your posts. You wanna do somethin about that?

Not sure what you're talking about. I don't see it.

[DabigRG]

1 minute ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Not sure what you're talking about. I don't see it.

There's two quotes and a spoiler in the bottom of your posts that my laptop to chug for a bit. I don't know why their showing up like that if they were always there, though. 

[Forte-Metallix]

3 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

There's two quotes and a spoiler in the bottom of your posts that my laptop to chug for a bit. I don't know why their showing up like that if they were always there, though. 

...That's his signature. It always appears. A lot of people here have one.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

The new Chaotic cover looks cool! 

Fifty rings if it says "The Chaotix is in!"

[Kaotic Kanine]

1 hour ago, Forte-Metallix said:

Cream is a junior member. She'll get to do more over time. It's just like Tails in Sonic SatAM: He started off downplayed, but as the series went on, he contributed more to the plot, and eventually he became a full-fledged member.

Thing is, that's another major reason why Cream's treatment in the comics thus far pisses me off to high heaven. SatAM!Tails, and by extension Archie!Tails and Archie!Amy in the early comics, were the single-most insulting usage of those characters ever. I mean, both Tails and Amy are characters straight from the games who are demonstrated in said games as very capable characters! I can understand Amy being denied from joining the Freedom Fighters, since she wasn't portrayed as capable in the games yet (and even in Adventure she spent most of the game running from ZERO) but Tails... His debut game had him as a main character, Sonic the Hedgehog's sidekick to be exact, so I can't find any excuse for SatAM reducing Tails' role the way it did, even if that was going to be rectified in the third season. But yeah, that's pretty much what's happening here; Ian is taking Cream, a game character who has been shown plenty of times as being very capable, and forcing her on the sidelines in the same insulting manner as Tails and Amy Pre-Reboot (and SatAM in Tails' case). Sure she's actually part of the team this time, whereas those two weren't given the chance to prove their merit, but the most she gets to do is serve snacks and give band-aids. Overall, it's just very stupid to me and I question why Ian decided to go this route with Cream. Maybe if Advance 2&3, Heroes, Battle, and Rush weren't canon and Cream is truly new to adventuring, I can understand, but all those games are now canon and this treatment of Cream makes no damn sense to me.

1 hour ago, Forte-Metallix said:

And who's to say Sally and the others didn't thank her offscreen? The major plot point at the moment was that the team suffered their first major loss since the saga began.

That is true. Alrighty then, you raise an excellent point! But then, why would Sally still sideline Cream afterwards? Cream saves everyone's lives from Sally's boneheaded mistake and yet she's still not ready to tackle big missions (even if it's as simple as recruiting people from different universes) or take part in a battle against mind controlled robots? I'm sorry if I'm being unreasonable, I wish I wasn't, but these are honest questions.

1 hour ago, Forte-Metallix said:

And quite frankly, isn't the fact that Cream's part of the team of protagonists enough for now? I mean, we still haven't seen the Babylon Rouges since the reboot started, and you don't hear their fans complaining. Heck, I was upset that Comedy Chimp and Fastidious Beaver were underutilized in Worlds Unite; at least Cream has a reason to be there!

 

1 hour ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Heck, my bae Conquering Storm has been far less utilized than Cream, and she's a high ranking Egg Boss! Even in the Eggman's Dozen arc which starred the Egg Bosses, she was underutilized compared to Nephthys, Maw, Tundra, Akhlut, and even the Battle Lord.

It's safe to say that if you're a member of the main Freedom Fighter group, you're going to get a lot more screentime outside of the Universe arcs.

Actually, I'm very surprised that Babylon Rogues fans aren't being very vocal with their absence  And same with you, Conquering Storm's Servant; how come you're not ranting like me with Storm's rather lackluster usage in the Reboot? But you're both right, it should be enough that Cream is part of the team of protagonists and I shouldn't be this pissed off. However the thing is I want Cream to be doing stuff to justify being in the Freedom Fighters; I wish Cream was doing the kind of stuff that warrants her being part of the main cast instead of being a minor character like she supposedly should be. So far, Cream's actions in the comics, save for 267 and 281-282 to an extent, don't justify her being a member of the core cast. I wouldn't be surprised if tons of readers, especially those unfamiliar with Sonic or those who are already skeptical of Cream, are questioning Cream's presence in the Freedom Fighters and wishing she would stay with her mother instead of being a "useless main character". Big has gotten to demonstrate why he's a Freedom Fighter many times, Cream not so much.

1 hour ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

And what about when Cream helped fight Captain Metal in Pirate Plunder Panic's climax?

I often forget about that but that is a genuinely good moment for Cream and I'm willing to count it as a genuine moment for Cream in the comics, even if she didn't actually get to land a hit. Though at least she did what I consider to be actual "support work"; debilitate the enemy or "buff" the main fighter so the battle is in their favor (like in an ARTS/MOBA). So, alright, Cream's treatment since the Reboot isn't that bad and I take back any moment were I uttered that exact word. However, Cream's treatment since Shattered World Crisis and since becoming a Freedom Fighter, on the other hand, I'm sorry to say but I still view that whole thing as god-awful and the only way it will be redeemed is if 284 puts Cream to damn good use.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

4 minutes ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

Actually, I'm very surprised that Babylon Rogues fans aren't being very vocal with their absence  And same with you, Conquering Storm's Servant; how come you're not ranting like me with Storm rather lackluster usage in the Reboot? 

Mainly because I'm more grateful that I have her back in the comic when, unlike Cream thanks to her being a game character being her protection, there was a good chance I would never see Conquering Storm again after the reboot if the worst came to pass. Especially given how characters like Shard got screwed by the Pendering over the slightest relation to his concepts, and even if that weren't the case there was a good chance Sega could have forced Ian to trash her anyway for some arbitrary reason.

Conquering Storm may not be as effective as she was back then, but it was either I deal with what I have now or risk not having her at all.

[Kaotic Kanine]

7 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Mainly because I'm more grateful that I have her back in the comic when, unlike Cream thanks to her being a game character being her protection, there was a good chance I would never see Conquering Storm again after the reboot if the worst came to pass. Especially given how characters like Shard got screwed by the Pendering over the slightest relation to his concepts.

Conquering Storm may not be as effective as she was back then, but it was either I deal with what I have now or risk not having her at all.

Oh! Right...  My most major apologies for what I said then. I forgot to consider that factor in regards to Conquering Storm and why you may not be ranting about her usage like I am with Cream...

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yeah...I already got screwed with a lot of characters I was interested in back in the old continuity in general. Beauregard, Enerjak, Iron Queen to name a few, and especially Lien-Da after Endangered Species ended on a very shitty note. 

Conquering Storm is the one character I got back out of all of that, so while she may be a lot more tactically ineffective than she was before, it is really better than nothing. After all, unless something abruptly gets Archie Sonic canceled, I've got it's entire lifetime to see her character improve.

[Meta77]

Does anyone have the list of rules Sega imposed on archie for the series going forward.

I know someone said no romance does this mean even sonicxamy is off limits even though the games hint at this themselves.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

No romance between game characters. Non-game characters like Bunnie and Antoine are fair game, but something SonicXAmy (or anyone else) is out.

[Sean]

I'm glad that despite everything, Sally/Nicole is still possible

[kadybat]

1 hour ago, Sean said:

I'm glad that despite everything, Sally/Nicole is still possible

SAME SAME SAME SAME SAME what's up gay squirrel x computer wife is the best ship 

[Soniman]

Honestly who came up with Nicole getting an avatar again? That was probably the best thing to come out of the dark age/pre Ian Era 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Ben Bates did like 20 years ago. It was a scrapped season 3 idea for SatAM if I remember correctly.

 

Which, I probably don't, someone source that, but my brain tells me it's right

[MetalSkulkBane]

6 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Any easier, and her potential impact would risk being pointless. Higher stakes make higher impacts.

As for the issue itself, I don't really get what was wrong with it based on impressions from those who got the issue early. This is the one issue where it doesn't look like they've rushed things, and the whole point of it was to get us geared up for the climax. It wasn't anything special, but after previous issues had them constantly fighting with almost no rest in between, this is kinda what we've been asking for more of.

I can see it not being as gripping as some would like, but given that it's a breather issue and a prelude of what's to come, isn't that kinda the point?

I've been taking this breath since August 2015. Last few stories might been rushed, but not exactly "adrenalin rush" way.

6 hours ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

Nope 

Not only do the games and Sonic X say otherwise but, in all honesty, this kind of challenge for Cream is the only thing that can possibly redeem the comics (and Ian) for their negligent treatment of Cream since SWC (or since her debut in the comics IMO). If they were gonna keep her on the sidelines and deny her any contribution for three whole years, specifically by having an overused character command her to stay out of missions and battles, then Cream better take part in a major fight and at least do in a good deal of damage!

It's going to be nice to see Cream in action, but it's obvious she will be underdog. She will most likely use "Home Alone" tactics rather that throw bad ass one liner and take 6 enemies in the same time. Also, how many times she fought in X? I remember one big fight: with Emerl. And she one only due to her specific fight style.

5 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Its the inclusion of Metal Sonic (with a potential Badnik Horde) that concerns me.

If I had to guess Metal will have duel with certain black-yellow robot (and people will go "Only I feel deja vu?"), thus effectively removing each other from the bigger story.

[Celestia]

42 minutes ago, Soniman said:

Honestly who came up with Nicole getting an avatar again? That was probably the best thing to come out of the dark age/pre Ian Era 

Well, first there was a story written by Romy Chacon where Nicole and Sally switched bodies temporarily (#146). Not long after that (#151) there was a story written and penciled by Tania Del Rio that introduced the lynx design, and Nicole refers to the body switching incident as being her "inspiration" for it. As far as I know, we have no idea if either writer actually came up with the concept or not.

I think the only thing we know for sure is that Penders wasn't the one, otherwise, uh...yeah, Nicole wouldn't have her holo-lynx form anymore.