Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Also comic shadow like game shadow is just kind of overpoered, so I don't really Know what you mean by that? Do you mean dialogue? If you just mean power levels, he's just kind of overpowered.

Dude, this isn't freaking Dragon Ball Z. It's not about power levels or about dialogue. It's about how capable a character is in a fight, with overpowered meaning "hardly anyone can touch him" - and considering that even Amy Rose can put up a fight and actually got a hit off of Shadow in older issues and Knuckles went even with him in a fight, that's makes Shadow a lot less overpowered than he is in the games where these characters wouldn't likely have had any chance against him in any other continuity.

[MetalSkulkBane]

12 hours ago, blade57331 said:

Another thing, what the hell, Rouge? Why you team up Knuckles and Shadow together? Sound like terrible idea. Wouldn't it makes more sense if you and Amy would go together, Shadow with Omega(or Amy) to keep him in check from burning everything and Knuckles alone, since he is in his comfort zone (out of civilization)?

I believe it's a bonding exercise. Other way putting two strongest guys in one team, when one is a guy you have a crush on and like spending time, is a terrible idea.

11 hours ago, Ernest-Panda said:

Am I the only one who thought Knuckles holding Team Dark partly responsible for what happened with the Master Emerald was kind of dickish?

The reason he shattered it was ultimately because Eclipse wanted it. Team Dark on the other hand where as hellbent on preventing that from happening as Knux was. Sure they wanted to protect in a different way, but they still had the same goal of keeping Eclipse away from it. Granted if Team Dark did get their way then Snively would've been able to get his hands on it, but they wouldn't have known.

Basically, if Team Dark weren't involved, Eclipse would've still come after it, likely leading to the same result regardless.

If they agreed on that matter, they wouldn't fight each other in the first place. Both sides probably think "none of this would happen, if  Knuckles/Shadow just listened to me. Jerk."

[Soniman]

Honestly the dialogue and character interactions in the latest SU are so on point I'm really loving the Knuckles/Shadow dynamic because it's never really been explored in the games that's not to say the other interactions aren't great either. I'm looking forward to seeing how this arc plays out

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

I read the issue, the things I like are the Characterisations, Rouge, Amy, Shadow, Knuckles and especially Omega were pretty fun! Though I'm not used to ABT's drawings of Knuckles though... it looks kinda off...

[Sparky]

11 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Shadow - "...he called me a jerk."

Knux - "Yeah, well, you are."

Later...

Shadow - "And if Eclipse gets in my head again?"

Rouge - "Knuckles can beat the mind control out of your brain...Plus, Knuckles is the last echidna. You need to make sure he doesn't go extinct."

I'm loving how they keep Shadow strong, but not so stoic and overpowered in this universe (like Sega does), an a rather enjoyable asshole with a heart as oppose to a demeaning butt monkey (that some people would like him to be) or insufferable dick (that Boom does). This banter is what we really need in the games.

Like the background between the Kingdom and the Federation. I'm actually a lot more interested in the past between GUN/The United Federation and the Kingdom of Acorn than I am with who Naugus Nixis is, honestly. I'm hoping we get a kinda "flashback" arc that shows the Great War between these two nations more in-depth prior to Eggman's takeover.

The thing is, Shadow is only as "overpowered" as Sonic and Knuckles are. 

[Shadowlax]

6 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Dude, this isn't freaking Dragon Ball Z. It's not about power levels or about dialogue. It's about how capable a character is in a fight, with overpowered meaning "hardly anyone can touch him" - and considering that even Amy Rose can put up a fight and actually got a hit off of Shadow in older issues and Knuckles went even with him in a fight, that's makes Shadow a lot less overpowered than he is in the games where these characters wouldn't likely have had any chance against him in any other continuity.

1) a lot of it dbz inspired

2) big two if you are referencing ttt, shadow was fighting 8 people at once. And inreference to knuckles he was in a fight before that. And even then chocked knuckles out to the point of him needing a montage sequence to break it and subsequently saved him from drowning, and then fought eclipse again. To which knuckles was impressed.

Bonus: they actively forget shadow strait up has certain powers to make that fight even function.

Hes kind of overpowered, the characters know this and its a reoccurring joke in the comic. He jokes about it, himself.

Its not even that serious dude

[Dr. Detective]

8 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Dude, this isn't freaking Dragon Ball Z. It's not about power levels or about dialogue. It's about how capable a character is in a fight, with overpowered meaning "hardly anyone can touch him" - and considering that even Amy Rose can put up a fight and actually got a hit off of Shadow in older issues and Knuckles went even with him in a fight, that's makes Shadow a lot less overpowered than he is in the games where these characters wouldn't likely have had any chance against him in any other continuity.

Now, when it comes to getting off hits on Shadow and the like, this I totally agree with. Again, though, I've never been completely sold on Shadow in the games not having the ability to get hurt by other characters. It always came off to me that they were just able to easily write around it. In SA2 he was clearly set up as Sonic's rival so I got it there. In Heroes everyone looked about the same matched up against each other in cutscenes. In his own game he fought both Sonic and Diablon at the same time which is certainly a bit much. One could probably make the argument that by that point he had six chaos emeralds but eh... In 06, Omega was said to have beaten him actually. Didn't appear in Unleashed or Colors. In Colors DS he does nothing. Generations had him as a bit of a one-hit KO with the rear-ending finale to the fight which was funny.

Actually, listing all that off made me feel like it's more all over the place again. Like his personality. I wonder if this perception of Shadow is one of those muddled things that leaked over from Sonic X again. Like how overdone Vector was when it came to comedy and his uncharacteristically irrational decisions concerning this crush on Vanilla he had or Amy's super imposed constant anger that I don't remember her having in any of the games before or after that show came out. 

[Shadowlax]

3 hours ago, Fusion Zebra said:

I read the issue, the things I like are the Characterisations, Rouge, Amy, Shadow, Knuckles and especially Omega were pretty fun! Though I'm not used to ABT's drawings of Knuckles though... it looks kinda off...

It looks like pre reboot knuckles old drawings

I liked that

Though a lot of the art in this book.is...derpy.

[Sonictrainer]

45 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

2) big two if you are referencing ttt, shadow was fighting 8 people at once. And inreference to knuckles he was in a fight before that. And even then chocked knuckles out to the point of him needing a montage sequence to break it and subsequently saved him from drowning, and then fought eclipse again. To which knuckles was impressed.

Wait, what?

[MetalSkulkBane]

To me Shadow was never overpowered, maybe not counting Chaos Control. He certainly has many powers, but that's more of "chaos manipulation in many ways". Overall he's close to Sonic, more raw power, less speed/skills/wit/being main hero or something like that.

I mean, he beat Sonic and Diabolon at the same time, but that's one time thing. I can think of dozen excuses how he did that (not canon, emeralds, got lucky, used Diabolon power against Sonic, they were tired of fighting aliens, etc)

[Shadowlax]

6 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I believe it's a bonding exercise. Other way putting two strongest guys in one team, when one is a guy you have a crush on and like spending time, is a terrible idea.

 

Shadow strait up says and rouge acknowledges why its a bad idea. There is a mind controlling alien possibly in the area and shadow is looking for, things that possibly even in shard form might give him more power. If that alien were say an enterprising individual he would wait untill they found it and try to control him.

Rouge says "try not to kill him" but its still isnt a good idea. The only reason he broke away from the mind control on the ship was because rouge was there and assumedly during the next arc because he was so close to again power source. The risk for eclipse to just do that is low and shadow little to no emotional connection to the person around him to inspre him to break out of that.

That said the money is on the high powered individual in the area, odds are its nixis. 

But its still kind of a really shit idea. Its case of playing up tropes with out actually writing. "Oh the girls are mature and the boys are fighting" when actually the boys desire to general not be around eachother particularly in this situation is a very good idea. And instead having the intended effect of making rouge look mature, she looks quite foolish. If they would have offered a legitimate strategy for this, which im super sure rouge is mentally capable of, that would have been cool and actually made her look capible. And given her an actual notch on her secret agent belt. But instead they played up the cool girls hot headed boys trope and it looks silly.

The situation is far too serious to be trying to do bonding exercises 

24 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

Wait, what?

Go back and read  it knuckles strait up has a "i can do this" monotage sequence to breake shadows choke hold. They fall off a cliff and instead of letting him drown or atleast go down stream, and teleporting back the emerald... That thing they forgot he, could do, saves him. To fight him, and then fights eclipse

Shadow went through an iron man match that whole arc. Fighting while already beaten up, suprised and everything. 

And treasure team tango his litterally fighting team rose, the rouges, and...beans team at once,a few people get hits in

[Celestia]

The thing about "Shadow beating Diablon and Sonic at the same time" is...he was the playable character and it was a boss fight. I mean, I don't doubt he's canonically powerful enough to handle a fight like that, but I think that goes for a lot of the main/secondary characters in this franchise. With games, you generally have to assume that a character is putting all their effort into a fight, even if the boss doesn't seem like a big deal to the player.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

3 minutes ago, Celestia said:

The thing about "Shadow beating Diablon and Sonic at the same time" is...he was the playable character and it was a boss fight. I mean, I don't doubt he's canonically powerful enough to handle a fight like that, but I think that goes for a lot of the main/secondary characters in this franchise. With games, you generally have to assume that a character is putting all their effort into a fight, even if the boss doesn't seem like a big deal to the player.

If we're gonna go by boss fights, we could easily mention that fact if you're playing Sonic Adventure 2, or Heroes, or even Chronicles, there's scenarios in which Sonic kicks Shadow's ass, so these boss fights really aren't really canon.

also that fight is non-canon due to the final story of Shadow 

[Kuzu]

The thing with Shadow is that he's mostly portrayed as infallible as far as the games are concerned; even at his most negative portrayal (his own game) you're meant to root for him to a certain extent. Flynn isn't afraid to bring Shadow down a notch or two by his own personality flaws and show that he too is not perfect despite his accomplishments, it makes him more of an actual character than just "another dark badass hero".

I rather enjoy this dynamic that he and Knuckles have, if only because its good contrast to their respective relationships with Sonic. They both respect him as a person and individual, even if they have some differences.Toward each other however, it seems like there's a lot more animosity since they don't really know each other all that well, and even after fighting alongside each other, still have a lot of contempt for the other. Kinda reminds of Zoro and Sanji from One Piece actually :V

 

Anyway, the issue itself was pretty good. Though I haven't really been following the solicits with this arc, so Team Dark's appearance were kind of a surprise for me, I expect them to have their own arc to deal with Eclipse. 

The penciling and inking are on point, was getting kind of tired of how pale the colors were in the main book. And I love how they actually remembered that Rouge is a bat and is supposed to have fangs, its been so long. It made her really cute tbh

It seems like they dialed back the "zany robot" aspect of Omega's personality too; he talks in a more straightfoward and robotic tone but still focused on destruction, as opposed to saying a lot of non-sequiturs as if to make him some sort of meme character. I like that. 

I won't lie, I honestly thought that was Thrash at the end, but then I remembered he's kind of banned isn't he. 

[Soniman]

I don't think Thrash is banned but after his final act being the eradication of the entire Echidna race I don't think I an is in a rush to bring him back again lol 

[Kuzu]

Oh really? but still,  that was a big "wtf" moment before it was pointed out that it was just Naugus in disguise.

[blade57331]

Nahhh. I'm pretty sure Thrash is off-limit. Ian mention it in one of reviews.

[MetalSkulkBane]

If I recall correctly Ian said he CAN use Trash, but doesn't WANT to, due to his connection to echidnas. Uno, we don't have echidnas anymore, dos, less remembering Lawsuit mess the better. Ergo, there is little use for him.

[DabigRG]

I could link the original video again, but since Im lazy, I'll paste my old post for the lulz:p

Posted June 21

Not to sound like an outofcontext egotist here, but remember how I said I was a bit cross towards "Ahklut's overall shape and Proud Warrior Race Guy personallity, and especially Maw's species and fur/eye inversion."? This pretty much confirms it.

 

 

  Hide contents

[King Scoopa Koopa]

9 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

If we're gonna go by boss fights, we could easily mention that fact if you're playing Sonic Adventure 2, or Heroes, or even Chronicles, there's scenarios in which Sonic kicks Shadow's ass, so these boss fights really aren't really canon.

also that fight is non-canon due to the final story of Shadow 

I always thought the fights in SA2 ended in stalemates, despite what the gameplay depicts. Usually the cutscenes show both sides standing and panting or getting called away as though the fight were still going on.

[Forte-Metallix]

11 minutes ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

I always thought the fights in SA2 ended in stalemates, despite what the gameplay depicts. Usually the cutscenes show both sides standing and panting or getting called away as though the fight were still going on.

Well, it was implied Tails won his second fight against Eggman, since the latter is shown lying down in defeat in the Hero ending.

[Mauro Fonseca]

21 hours ago, blade57331 said:

Nahhh. I'm pretty sure Thrash is off-limit. Ian mention it in one of reviews.

Ian's repeatedly said Thrash is perfectly usable under any legal logic. He just can't think of how to do it since he was so connected to a set of circumstances that aren't around anymore; and for the effort he'd put on reinventing Thrash, he'd rather make new characters.

[Big Panda]

How do you think the Universe arcs/issues are going to be formatted in the lead-up to #100? They'll need to do at least one standalone issue to even it out.

Also, this time, I'd really like for the #100 to be part of an arc. The only previous landmark to be part of an arc was #25 and I think it's about time we got another.

If it was up to me:

#95: standalone

#96-#99: arc

#100-#103: arc

Or maybe

#95-#96: two standalones or SU's first ever two-parter?

#97-#100: arc

Ooooor...

#95-#100: first ever 6-part arc.

...hey, it could happen :P

[AngelSlayerN64]

20 hours ago, Ernest-Panda said:

How do you think the Universe arcs/issues are going to be formatted in the lead-up to #100? They'll need to do at least one standalone issue to even it out.

Also, this time, I'd really like for the #100 to be part of an arc. The only previous landmark to be part of an arc was #25 and I think it's about time we got another.

If it was up to me:

 

  Hide contents

#95: standalone

#96-#99: arc

#100-#103: arc

Or maybe

#95-#96: two standalones or SU's first ever two-parter?

#97-#100: arc

Ooooor...

#95-#100: first ever 6-part arc.

...hey, it could happen :P

 

I'm not sure how a 6-part Universe arc would be possible, but I just hope that we get to see what the Babylon Rogues are up to before SU #100 starts.

Also, I could possibly see SU #95 or SU #100 as a future milestone issue.

[Alice Twilight]

Decided to read from the reboot after Worlds Collide and I'm all caught up. I stopped reading the comics after Sonic Genesis so I figured reading the first crossover and post reboot was probably the best place to start. Now reading all through the Sonic Universe issues post reboot.

What I'm looking forward to the most is Ian giving some more context and some back story to Lost Hex, something that was needed in the games since I think he's good at that sort of stuff. I have a question about when they reference past events though because of this new continuity.

When they reference events from games like Sonic Adventure is it those exact same moments from the games? or the events of Archie's own canon and their Sonic Adventure adaption way back when? I can't tell if this is a soft reboot or a hard reboot.