Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Flyinpenguin117]

2 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Meaning...?

The way I'm reading imthat isn't sounding right to me.

For some reason, I enjoy seeing Sally getting her ass handed to her, more so than other characters. I actually like her, though, so idk.

[Wittymations]

In fairness, there's a lot of authors who love to torment their favorite character.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

4 hours ago, RJDodger said:

For some reason, I enjoy seeing Sally getting her ass handed to her, more so than other characters. I actually like her, though, so idk.

...okay then.

I mean, I think we all like seeing the heroes get their asses handed to them to show they're not invincible and that the villain is dangerous, but the way you worded that could have been read many different ways. And let's just say I wasn't keen on how I Was reading it.

[DiamondXBlitz]

Ok, Gemerl is now my replacement for Shard. Though Shard would always have a special place in my heart D=

[LargoDELLZ]

6 hours ago, DiamondXBlitz said:

Ok, Gemerl is now my replacement for Shard. Though Shard would always have a special place in my heart D=

Ever since Gemerl first appeared, he's pretty much the Shard of the new continuity in my eyes, and I'm pretty sure it was intentional with the color scheme and his personality.

[Sparky]

1 hour ago, LargoDELLZ said:

Ever since Gemerl first appeared, he's pretty much the Shard of the new continuity in my eyes, and I'm pretty sure it was intentional with the color scheme and his personality.

Ian said it wasn't intentional. At least I think he said that... in a Bumblekast or something.

Gemerl is Emerl, who copied Sonic's personality the most in Sonic Battle. Shard was a Metal Sonic, so he also had a copy of Sonic's personality. That's why they act similar. Shard's color scheme came from Metal Sonic 3.0. Another thing shared between G/Emerl and Metal Sonic overall is they both share the copycat skill, although I don't think Shard had that. 

[sonicfoamyfan9805]

the only thing keeping gemerl from being exactly like shard is the fact that he lacks the ability to make facial expressions

[MetalSkulkBane]

I don't know, Gemerl seems to have less attitude (then again, maybe it's lack of face)

But the biggest difference is situation both robots are. Shard was an outcast, saving city that would fear him if they knew about him. Gemerl? He's apparently a local hero, who lives with nice lady that asks him to bring a wood for fire.

[Big Panda]

1 hour ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

I don't know, Gemerl seems to have less attitude (then again, maybe it's lack of face)

But the biggest difference is situation both robots are. Shard was an outcast, saving city that would fear him if they knew about him. Gemerl? He's apparently a local hero, who lives with nice lady that asks him to bring a wood for fire.

I imagine that Gemeral's life is what Shard could've achieved in the future.

[Dr. Detective]

On 8/15/2016 at 3:41 AM, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

...okay then.

I mean, I think we all like seeing the heroes get their asses handed to them to show they're not invincible and that the villain is dangerous, but the way you worded that could have been read many different ways. And let's just say I wasn't keen on how I Was reading it.

Forget showing that the villain is dangerous. Sometimes that stuff is just funny. Like Tails and Charmy are some of my favorite characters but seeing them get hurt in cartoonish ways always makes me laugh the most out of anyone else.

[antyep]

Which confuses me. I mean during the Mecha Sally arc people complained that the heroes kept losing on a monthly basis.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, antyep said:

Which confuses me. I mean during the Mecha Sally arc people complained that the heroes kept losing on a monthly basis.

The fact that they kept losing was the only thing I liked about the Mecha Sally arc. In the beginning. And then it just turned into this really incomprehensible back and forth where the heroes would fly on the bi-plane to different places, fight Mecha Sally for a bit before she fucked off, and then they did it over again. That's when I started to hate it. 

The only good thing about Ken Penders and his lawsuit ended up being that it forced a development to happen within the issues that saw to the echidnas disappearing, which led to an emotionally charged fight between Knuckles and Thrash that I ended up liking a lot, which I know a ton of other people hated because of how obviously unintentional it was.

 

[KoDaiko]

It is a relief and a happy surprise to see the heros get beaten up. Not in the wrong way, mind you.

The enemy being powerful than the hero is somewhat needed to make the hero's lose, but I prefer when the defeat is caused by a fault created by the hero's. Endless "OP enemy beat hero" repetition is kinda boring. So it was nice that the whole attack started because they weren't secretive&smart enough with their plan&possession, and the hero made themselves vulnerable to a sudden attack.

I know they're small groups and were being careful but it was kind of funny to me that despite attacking Eggman's bases multiple times the FF don't have enough people (and power) at their base to counter an attack. Also apparently the kingdom isn't strong enough to counter Eggman's army or protect stuff either (which is reasonable since he does control various part of the world). Now it makes me actually feel he is a big threat.

In the future I hope they can make a defeat affect long-term instead of winning back/solving it within the arc/one or two issues. It doesn't have to be a serious consequence that slows down the story, something that is mentioned or shown now and then, like a character-focused one (like I rambled ten pages back).

[Dr. Detective]

The absence of a long term defeat is usually done in part because of the four issue format they stick to. It's often led to a lot of problems concerning the 4th issue resolution of a story arc for Sonic Universe. The endings to the Tails Adventure and that first Silver Saga arc that I really hated come to mind. The way the arcs 3rd issue would always end on a full-page spread of the final boss they were to fight only for the problem to be solved within the first part of the 4th issue with the rest of it being clean up was the most memorable for me there. And despite how much I absolutely loved Eggman's Dozen, there was a bit of that there too, though not quite as jarring since Naugus' operation had been basically shut down by the end of the 3rd issue.

And Silver's fight with Enerjak just... I dunno. There were a lot of character decisions and story developments that I didn't like and a lot of what was driving the villain to do what he did felt very contrived and silly. The way he was acting and the way the story presented him didn't at all prepare me for the anticlimax at the end. I've been told that it all makes sense and that all of it was perfect and supposed to happen that way so I guess that means I like it and don't know it yet. 

Either way, there's issues when it comes to spacing things out that I feel need to be handled just a bit better. I'm liking the pace of the current SU arc at the moment. I'm glad the confrontation with Naugus didn't happen at the tail end of the 3rd issue.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Problem with having a long term defeat is that, to my knowledge, they've been given a mandate that strictly prevents that - Sonic can have defeats, but they have to be short term and he has to have a victory that tips things back in his favor.

Doesn't say anything about bittersweet victories tho, which I say is a fair compromise/loophole because I love victories where the heroes win with a rather high cost to themselves, sowing the seeds for more potential conflict.

[Your Vest Friend]

Welp, #285's out. It's the beginning of the upswing for the heroes it seems.

Also Waves of Change is in my hands so it's definitely finally officially out.

Also Sally hitting up on that ancient ninja remedy in #285 I see. Will anybody even understand that reference.

[DabigRG]

10 hours ago, Dr. Chaotix said:

The absence of a long term defeat is usually done in part because of the four issue format they stick to. It's often led to a lot of problems concerning the 4th issue resolution of a story arc for Sonic Universe. The endings to the Tails Adventure and that first Silver Saga arc that I really hated come to mind. The way the arcs 3rd issue would always end on a full-page spread of the final boss they were to fight only for the problem to be solved within the first part of the 4th issue with the rest of it being clean up was the most memorable for me there. 

Either way, there's issues when it comes to spacing things out that I feel need to be handled just a bit better. I'm liking the pace of the current SU arc at the moment. I'm glad the confrontation with Naugus didn't happen at the tail end of the 3rd issue.

I agree about the current arc, although it makes me question what the hell is gonna happen in the final part? Though, I'd imagine that was also done to avoid dragging out the whole Nixus thing, which I would hope also applies to Crystal Omega.

What didn't you like about Tails Adventure? Its been a while since I seen it.

 

 

[MetalSkulkBane]

...I'm going to quote Colonel Sanders now: "I'm not lovin' it."

Issue 285 is not bad by any means, artwork is great (Eggman could have more faces than "teeth smile", but whatever), but...it's setup. Again. Previous issue had insane speed, everything that could went wrong went wrong, I was on rollercoaster and someone broke the breaks. And in this issue it stopped.

Spoiler

The only thing I liked about 283 was build-up for Egg Army. Chooligans, Witcharters, Armada, Metal Sonic, Phage, Tails Doll, Ivo threw EVERYTHING. And they gone now. No, they were gone in last issue. Few of them showed up here, but they don't do anything, nor will they in next issues. So what if Metal is still in the story, it's so obvious that he won't do anything important, everyone has a dancing partners for next issues. He will probably help Eggman escape and that's it.

I hope Cream fans are happy, because she kicked one guy and will kick few Buzz Bombers later. That's it for her time to shine, every real threat is gone.

On the bright side, next issues are promised to be epic. Funny enough, most interesting is Sally scenario, where she gets second chance to prove her team can beat badniks without Sonic, except this time she can't fail.

 

12 hours ago, Dr. Chaotix said:

The absence of a long term defeat is usually done in part because of the four issue format they stick to. It's often led to a lot of problems concerning the 4th issue resolution of a story arc for Sonic Universe. The endings to the Tails Adventure and that first Silver Saga arc that I really hated come to mind. The way the arcs 3rd issue would always end on a full-page spread of the final boss they were to fight only for the problem to be solved within the first part of the 4th issue with the rest of it being clean up was the most memorable for me there. And despite how much I absolutely loved Eggman's Dozen, there was a bit of that there too, though not quite as jarring since Naugus' operation had been basically shut down by the end of the 3rd issue.

Silver Saga? Putting "how Silver won" aside, it was properly paced. Enerjack is defeated around page 17, good 2/3 into a issue.(For comparison: Mole in Tails adventure goes down on page 8, Naugus also 8. Still, the worst SU final boss is Captain Metal/Egg of War, beaten in 4 pages since his reveal)

EDiT (For curiosity I checked main book. There are few short fights, like Genesis Egg Golem or Super Adam, but the 'winner' is king Shadow, defeat in laughable 2 pages. They needed space for "Groundhog Day" parody back-up story.

[QuantumEdge]

As I anticipated, I had a blast with part 2.  It's a little calmer and less action driven this time, but I think every story needs that sort of moment.  A calm after the first storm and the next.  I'm sounding like a broken record (again), but Diana is damn near faultless.  And I love how Gemerl is able to kick ass, even when pinned by two of the strongest characters in the comic XP  However my favourite bit is probably that final page.  I know it's a specific compliment, but the cliffhanger pages have been phenomenal for this arc.

[KoDaiko]

9 hours ago, Dr. Chaotix said:

The absence of a long term defeat is usually done in part because of the four issue format they stick to. It's often led to a lot of problems concerning the 4th issue resolution of a story arc for Sonic Universe. The endings to the Tails Adventure and that first Silver Saga arc that I really hated come to mind. The way the arcs 3rd issue would always end on a full-page spread of the final boss they were to fight only for the problem to be solved within the first part of the 4th issue with the rest of it being clean up was the most memorable for me there. And despite how much I absolutely loved Eggman's Dozen, there was a bit of that there too, though not quite as jarring since Naugus' operation had been basically shut down by the end of the 3rd issue.

And Silver's fight with Enerjak just... I dunno. There were a lot of character decisions and story developments that I didn't like and a lot of what was driving the villain to do what he did felt very contrived and silly. The way he was acting and the way the story presented him didn't at all prepare me for the anticlimax at the end. I've been told that it all makes sense and that all of it was perfect and supposed to happen that way so I guess that means I like it and don't know it yet. 

Either way, there's issues when it comes to spacing things out that I feel need to be handled just a bit better. I'm liking the pace of the current SU arc at the moment. I'm glad the confrontation with Naugus didn't happen at the tail end of the 3rd issue.

I wish they can change the 4-issue per arc. Or rather "start and end the story in four issues" format. I think it really limits the amount/size of story they can cover without starting to starting to look like a digest/summary, hand-picking which detail is important to include. I felt their pacing was bad every now and then(especially Megaman), and the format isn't helping. They're working on it, I can see, but it'll be easier if they didn't have to strictly squeeze the intro, conflict, climax, resolution plus extra stuff in like what...80pages?

9 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Problem with having a long term defeat is that, to my knowledge, they've been given a mandate that strictly prevents that - Sonic can have defeats, but they have to be short term and he has to have a victory that tips things back in his favor.

Doesn't say anything about bittersweet victories tho, which I say is a fair compromise/loophole because I love victories where the heroes win with a rather high cost to themselves, sowing the seeds for more potential conflict.

Eeeeh, as much as the format is annoying if it's because of the mandate that's justifiable I guess. I guess they can't keep showing Sonic getting beaten up or it'll ruin his image and character. I'm sure there are ways around it though.

I agree on bittersweet victories. What's the word, winning the battle but losing the war? I like it when the character saves the day but they don't feel miserable, when the main problem is solved but something keeps haunting them/someone, something that isn't all happy happy ending and like you said foreshadows a future plot point.

[DabigRG]

14 hours ago, Dr. Chaotix said:

The fact that they kept losing was the only thing I liked about the Mecha Sally arc. In the beginning. And then it just turned into this really incomprehensible back and forth where the heroes would fly on the bi-plane to different places, fight Mecha Sally for a bit before she fucked off, and then they did it over again. That's when I started to hate it. 

The only good thing about Ken Penders and his lawsuit ended up being that it forced a development to happen within the issues that saw to the echidnas disappearing, which led to an emotionally charged fight between Knuckles and Thrash that I ended up liking a lot, which I know a ton of other people hated because of how obviously unintentional it was.

 

Yeah, The Lost Hedgehog Tales seems to imply that there was more focus on action and world development at that point, which outside circumstances didn't help.

 

Thrash is a character I definitely wished had gotten more of the page-time he deserved long before the lawsuit affected the book. He was one of my favorite original characters during that period, and considering how much I love the Archie universe, that's saying a lot. He added something that was definitely welcomed and I still hold out hope that him and/or a similarly-conceptualized character will be brought into the current universe.

Which reminds me, I never did type up my thoughts on Endangered Species when I reread it last month. Might have to do that soon.

[MetalSkulkBane]

40 minutes ago, KoDaiko said:

I wish they can change the 4-issue per arc. Or rather "start and end the story in four issues" format. I think it really limits the amount/size of story they can cover without starting to starting to look like a digest/summary, hand-picking which detail is important to include. I felt their pacing was bad every now and then(especially Megaman), and the format isn't helping. They're working on it, I can see, but it'll be easier if they didn't have to strictly squeeze the intro, conflict, climax, resolution plus extra stuff in like what...80pages?

Wait, you want those arcs to be longer? If so, I would have to disagree.

[KoDaiko]

2 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Wait, you want those arcs to be longer? If so, I would have to disagree.

It's ok, I understand making arcs longer risk geting boring and dragging.

I don't want them to make all the arcs too long, but I do want them to handle their stories with the appropriate amount of pages/issues it needs so it will flow more smoothly. So one story can be 4 issues, one can be 6 one can be 2, and so on. 

I know their pacing problem isn't caused only by pages, but I felt it would be some help.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Actually, I think there's a point in extending the length of the arcs when the time calls for it. It really just depends on the story they're telling and how much time they need to tell it. We've been doing well with 4 issue arcs, but there are times when I feel it could be longer like when they were rushing things Pre-Panic in the Sky - then again, that was mainly Worlds Unite's fault, and it's anyone's guess if lengthening those rushed arcs would have made them any better.

I think they should do that on the rare moment that they really can't tell a story any other way, but until then 4-issue arcs is a pretty comfortable standard.

3 hours ago, KoDaiko said:

I agree on bittersweet victories. What's the word, winning the battle but losing the war?

More like prolonging the war or winning the war at the cost of everything they could manage, but yeah that's the general gist of it.

[Big Panda]

It's just occurred to me that this would technically be the second time that Sonic has taken on Egg Dragoon. Assuming that aspect of Generations was also still a thing.