Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[KoDaiko]

3 minutes ago, Mister X said:

They weren't villains originally, as far as I know.

Oh ok, thanks for the info.

So they put that in either because they liked the concept or people know the comic version more and they acknowledge that. Or something along that line.

 

 

[Your Vest Friend]

I think AAUK likes(/liked, no idea as of current time) the comic, and he was the one who put the cameos in. 

[sonicfoamyfan9805]

i thought that sth cover looked famillar

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Where was that from? I've never seen it before.

[Your Vest Friend]

That is SegaSonic the Hedgehog, on single player mode, with Sonic as the chosen character. 

[DabigRG]

4 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

No he wasn't. I'm going to talk in more general terms after, but I'm addressing this first because it's a factual error. His introduction in SegaSonic the Hedgehog gave him zero personality, but what hints we got didn't allude to peace loving maybe-pacifist at all. That was made up for the Chaotix manual. 

 

Oh, sorry about that. Guess that's what I get for taking a quick peak at Sonic wikia.

[Dr. Detective]

7 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Woooah...wall of text!

I'm torn being saying your hangup in not your fault but also mostly in your head. You seem to have had a hard time dealing with an old character you didn't really get due to being so used to a newer, hipper world in the games. Almost makes me wonder how you see the other characters with a similar nature....

I think the fascination with Game Mighty in particular is due to the novelty of being a part of the Classic era, as well as the (arguably fulfilled) potential for a neat side character. He was introduced as being a peace loving, if not pacifistic guy who loves to travel the world. The Knuckles, Mighty, and the Chaotix thing is a by product of the original game, which existed for years before the Chaotix were remade as new characters for Sonic Heroes. Thus, a lot of people consider them to be linked as buddy misfits, which combined with his history and similarities to Sonic make him such a interesting character for some. I guess that makes you a wippersnapper.

In the comic's, his portrayal was...a bit varied. Ken Penders initially portrayed him as being pretty similar to Espio except more lighthearted and with super strength before developing his more well-known personality in side stories, Karl Bollers apparently saw him as a Bruiser who asked questions later, and finally Ian Flynn expanded on the later Ken Penders version which wasn't too far off from the games. So, Mighty is basically an active, but kind guy gifted with super strength that he normally uses to protect his friends and innocents from the forces of evil.

Unfortunately, Knuckles stories in general seemed to have been cursed prereboot because there was just so much lore, character, and "baggage" to contend with and circumstances outside of Mr. Flynn's control meant a lot of things got pushed back. We have the stuff with Albion getting bombed, the Brotherhood of Guardians going missing, the remainder Knuckles's family and the citizens of Echidnaopolis being moved to Albion's ruins on the Day of Transit, that one Nocturnus backup story that got replaced at the last minute, the Dingo Regime being banished to Sandopolis Zone, Knuckles being relunctant to face his people again after what he feels he did, General Von Stryker planning to make a comeback now that the Dingoes have someplace to call home, Dimitri's reformation and assignment to Haven, Dr. Finitevus's plans involving Knuckles and Moebius, the revelation of Enerjak being a cyclical presence, the implications of a longstanding feud between the Echidnas and the Devil Dogs brought about by the secret sins of Albion, Lien-Da becoming Grandmaster and planning to reunite Echidna kind under her control, and finally Thrash's quest and gray vs. grey rivalry with Knuckles, which infamously got butchered at the last minute of Part Two's script.

The Chaotix were grandfathered into the canon as misfit friends of Knuckles who hang out with him and help him protect what's his when not off having their own wacky adventures. So while Julie-Su had family issues brewing in the background and Saffron was mostly just taking care of Charmy before her intended emergency push into action, Vector had a resented past with Downunda that he didn't want anyone to know about, Espio was receiving a decent amount of focus due to his connections with the Shinobi Clan and brief betrayal of the Chaotix, and Charmy had lost most of his people besides Saffron and had his memories jeopardize by Eggman as a demonstration. Charmy in general is a character that doesn't have the best portrayal or reception, so blaming Mighty for the comic's version getting shafted at times is hardly fair.

His reboot portrayal does what I agree is best and has him (and his stalward buddy Ray) off somewhere else tending to his own business while also having past ties to Sonic, Knuckles, and the Chaotix on his resume. And while some may contest the decision to do so, the implications that he had trouble with his temper and strength in the past that he had to find temperance for does give him an implied arc that makes him a little more than a nice traveler with super strength. So, while I do hope you don't let what Hype Backlash you seem to have keep you down forever, he at least has some material to help him stand on his own.

Also, Charmy is one of those game characters I would like to see get some positive portrayal in the limelight, along with Cream, Omega, and Marine.

Yes. "Holy wall of text Batman" indeed.

It's got nothing to do with him being an old character for the record. I like Fang, Bean, and Bark alright. I absolutely adore the Battle Kuku Lord. Though, I suppose they have a different connotation due to being villains. I've gone on record saying that I love the villains in the comic and that the heroes usually take quite a bit of work done with them or a center that I find more original in order for me to gravitate towards them. The only hero characters I think I outright love in the book are the ones I grew up with in the games. Aside from them, I just like Master Moss. And despite not liking the Freedom Fighters, I've got a bit of a soft spot for Antione. I don't really know why. I guess his personality clicks a little better with me then the others. I think Rotor's okay but he's often done or said some stuff that I've found either bothersome or hypocritical. Oh, and this new King Acorn is awesome. I don't like Sally but her dad is great.

If I'm a whippersnapper then I'm proud to be one I guess. There's not much to respond to in the following paragraphs due to having already known most of that. I will make mention of the fact that I wasn't too on board with any of the backstories the Chaotix had in the book either. I always imagined something far more interesting for them. Especially Vector. He spoke like a guy from the Bronx in Heroes so hearing the comic just say his dialect was fake and that he's got exceedingly cliche roots in an Australian inspired landscape (because he's a crocodile) bothered me. I was also hoping that the roots for Espio would be a bit different from what his stance as a ninja would lead people to expect. How he got to be a ninja seems like it'd have been an interesting story to tell had he not just been a ninja from an entire clan of ninjas. That one's a little more selfish of me though since it's probably the most plausible and understandable of the backstories here. However, because I kept experimenting with ways to avoid that scenario, I ended up being a little disappointed by seeing it in the comics. That's completely a "Me" issue though.

And I've gone on record ranting about how the books have treated Charmy. I already don't like the idea of the Sonic cast being associated directly with royal blood so that didn't kick off on the right foot for me anyway. As it went on though, he just kept getting fucked with until the very end of the issues before the Genesis Wave. At the end of that, his kingdom was gone, his friends were dead, his family was dead, his memories were wiped, his mind was handicapped, and finally his girlfriend was snatched away forever. If that continuity had continued he'd have eventually found himself committed to Arkham Asylum. 

It's not just hype backlash. It the hype backlash combined with the fact that I find him extraordinarily bland and "in the way" as it were. Not as "in the way" as he was before of course. In fact, nowadays, I can comfortably ignore him due to him no longer being a Chaotix member but it's not enough to make me like him. That's truly an issue most of the heroes in the book have for me though. I can't remember the name of a single one of the ones introduced within the new continuity aside from Relic and Fix-It.

Actually, I like them too. There's two more good guys I like.

6 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

No he wasn't. I'm going to talk in more general terms after, but I'm addressing this first because it's a factual error. His introduction in SegaSonic the Hedgehog gave him zero personality, but what hints we got didn't allude to peace loving maybe-pacifist at all. That was made up for the Chaotix manual. 

And ironically, the rest of the Chaotix (aside from Espio) were brought together by bringing in different concepts from different games, so they weren't even linked in the first place because of their wildly different origins. This is further reinforced by how Espio branched off alone for Sonic the Fighters; no reference had to be made to Chaotix because back then it was a one-time gig and not them becoming buddies. The Western side would have seen very little of this background, but the fact is that what they considered was always going to prove wrong, and them getting attached to the comic Chaotix and projecting it onto the games only compounded things when the inevitable finally happened. 

It's also kind of a cruel irony as well; to reintroduce a character, they all went by the Sonic Team personality, not ones made outside of that (like Chaotix wasn't Sonic Team personalities). But since Mighty has no Sonic Team personality, they'd probably default to the one that wasn't Chaotix because of how it was disregarded for the others. Thus his personality would be that of a tough brute like Knuckles and not the pacifist from Chaotix and the Archie comic, so a majority of Mighty fans would be disappointed anyway. Well, maybe not StC fans.

 

Interesting stuff. 

If he got introduced as a tough brute, I'd probably be on board with it only if he came off more like an Anti-Knuckles. Just make him an asshole who deformed into a villain. I'd like that a bit more. 

[DabigRG]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Chaotix said:

Yes. "Holy wall of text Batman" indeed.

 

If he got introduced as a tough brute, I'd probably be on board with it only if he came off more like an Anti-Knuckles. Just make him an asshole who deformed into a villain. I'd like that a bit more. 

Ya know dude, you didn't have to quote the entire post. I'll respond when I'm done reading it.

 

Also, that tough brute talk brings to mind O'nux the Evil Echidna and Thrash the Devil.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Ya know dude, you didn't have to quote the entire post. I'll respond when I'm done reading it.

I don't see why it matters if I did or not.

[DabigRG]

I can assume the reason the villains get off scott free is because there aren't many recurring villains in the games proper, so its nice . And I can certainly agree with that with my love of Scourge, Finitevus, Thunderbolt, , and Thrash.

Are Crocodiles associated with Australia? I just assumed that we because of the water and that one Ken Penders backup. Also, Vector in the comics was more Jive than Brooklyn.

"In the way"? :smirk:

Also, Master Moss, King Acorn, Relic and Fixit are cool because they actually add something to both the character their supporting and to the world in general. Is that you're reasoning as well?

11 minutes ago, Dr. Chaotix said:

I don't see why it matters if I did or not.

Cause I have to scroll through the whole dang thing to get to message.

[Sonictrainer]

3 hours ago, sonicfoamyfan9805 said:

i thought that sth cover looked famillar

Really? Sonic's head reminds me of his Sonic Drift Boxart 

[sonicfoamyfan9805]

 

8 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

Really? Sonic's head reminds me of his Sonic Drift Boxart 

could a mix of the two, its just what it reminded me of

[PC the Hedgehog]

Genesis of a Hero basically sounds like a retread of "Genesis" without the Freedom Fighters. Eh.

And going back to fighting pirates already, Sonic Universe? Eh...

[Your Vest Friend]

2 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Are Crocodiles associated with Australia? I just assumed that we because of the water and that one Ken Penders backup. Also, Vector in the comics was more Jive than Brooklyn.

Uh, yeah, pretty strongly. Biggest species of crocodile on Earth (Saltwater Crocodile) lives there, double points because it's the only croc species that primarily lives in saltwater.

But there's a difference in fiction in stereotyping a crocodile because of his origins (Dingodile is most likely a Saltie, but he is literally taken from Australian wildlife) and stereotyping a crocodile because...stereotypes (Vector has never been linked with Australia and there's no reason to assume it). American Crocodiles do exist (although nowhere near New York), but Vector's most likely just a generic crocodile not based on a singular species, and his traits are derived not from his species origin, but from his personality and profession. 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

Just read SU #88 (Nixus is... Naugus! Everybody knew that but Knuckles reaction was interesting. He wanted to believe him... poor guy.) & StH #285 (Exciting Issue. Kinda cool seeing the heroes beaten up.)

Still waiting for SU #89.

[AngelSlayerN64]

18 hours ago, PC the Hedgehog said:

Genesis of a Hero basically sounds like a retread of "Genesis" without the Freedom Fighters. Eh.

And going back to fighting pirates already, Sonic Universe? Eh...

I definitely agree with the first part. If I want any classic-themed stories, I'm going to read Sonic MegaDrive only.

While the idea of fighting against pirates for the second time in Sonic Universe is a bit cliché, I do believe that it's going to be pretty worthwhile in the long run. The blue otter on that cover already has a more unique and original design than Captain Metal, so that's a plus. Aside from that, I'm desperately hoping for Abyss the Squid to be the main antagonist of this arc. I'm still eagerly waiting for the Babylon Rogues to get their own Universe arc after this one is over. I understand that Ian Flynn doesn't like them too much, but they've been absent for an extremely long time. We're so close to reaching the next milestone in Universe, and yet there's still no plans for them? Oh well, I approve of what we have currently.

[Shadowlax]

2 hours ago, UmbraSageN64 said:

 I'm still eagerly waiting for the Babylon Rogues to get their own Universe arc after this one is over.

I haven't a clue as to what you even do with those characters

[DabigRG]

12 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

I haven't a clue as to what you even do with those characters

I don't know if there's any real story left for them seeing as Zero Gravity has probably happened. Since they are considered villains, though, I'm sure there's plenty of mundane things for them to do.

 

I wasn't immediately aware Mr. Flynn didn't think too highly of them.

[KoDaiko]

13 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

I haven't a clue as to what you even do with those characters

Eeh, they're Rogues. When Jet isn't fuming about beating Sonic (or anyone faster/confident than himself) in everything, the group spend their time stealing goodies and looking for treasure. That's enough material for them to appear as enemies or obstacles.

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

I don't know if there's any real story left for them seeing as Zero Gravity has probably happened. Since they are considered villains, though, I'm sure there's plenty of mundane things for them to do.

 

I wasn't immediately aware Mr. Flynn didn't think too highly of them.

That's true

I also didn't know that, anyone got any quotes. Its not that I don't believe you, I can see it. I would just like to have it for reference

57 minutes ago, KoDaiko said:

Eeh, they're Rogues. When Jet isn't fuming about beating Sonic (or anyone faster/confident than himself) in everything, the group spend their time stealing goodies and looking for treasure. That's enough material for them to appear as enemies or obstacles.

But for who? Everyone is busy doing important stuff. Unless you play into that. Have them fight knuckles and they get easily man handled because that's out of their element whilist he's trying to find the emeralds shards. Or them trying to fight shadow and team dark and get destroyed, and are easily thrown away. Oh I'm into this idea

" Hey fake edgehog we meet again"

" Who are you again?"

" I know who they are shadow.... there was... this race? I lost it...Nope nevermind "

"Memories of Identities not in my registry"

Oh god, I want that. And you could actually have them say dumb stuff like edgehog because their dumb.

" Were going to take that, sonic"

" No you aren't... jayce."

" ITS JET"

Make them the paste pot pete of sonic,

[AngelSlayerN64]

4 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I also didn't know that, anyone got any quotes. Its not that I don't believe you, I can see it. I would just like to have it for reference

Right here: https://www.sonicstadium.org/2013/05/sonic-stadium-interview-archie-comics-ian-flynn/

Ian Flynn mentions that his least favorite characters are (in no particular order) Marine, Dark Gaia, Metal Overlord, and the Babylon Rogues.

[DabigRG]

Ninja'd.

Also, things that the Rogues could do:Have them steal stuff? Go on a treasure hunt? Fight against Rouge or Nack? Invade Angel Island? Take on the Battlebird Armada? Challenge Sonic? Something a mechanic would do? Have Storm go on a wacky adventure for an errand?
 

Honestly, what can they do that involves Babylon at this point?

[Mauro Fonseca]

... how about the 8 ideas you just had? Why are you even trying to make the point "these characters are now useless and there's no more stories to be told with them" when not only that's been disproven before repeatedly, you're disproving it in your very post

[DabigRG]

6 minutes ago, The KKM said:

... how about the 8 ideas you just had? Why are you even trying to make the point "these characters are now useless and there's no more stories to be told with them" when not only that's been disproven before repeatedly, you're disproving it in your very post

I said Babylon specifically, not the Rogues(they) themselves.

 

I assume you are a fan of theirs that really wants to see them, and I can sympathize with that feeling, but you should fully consider the implication of what someone says about them before going up at arms. ? 

[Mauro Fonseca]

I'm not particularly a fan of theirs, I just don't get the argument that gets brought up over and over and over of "what would this character even do they're useless there's no stories to be told" when the comic, especially under Ian, for better and for worse, has just proven that which really shouldn't need to be proven in the first place, "there's more stories to be told if someone writes them".

 

But here, what can they do involving Babylon- we know Babylon was a great civilisation, lasted probably centuries, rules a vast area with the garden as it's source, caused some unnamed figure to become ultrapowerful and rule the world (hey, maybe it's the guy in the Naugus flashbacks?). That's material for years of stories.