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Archie Sonic Main Discussion


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2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

It was immediately got crapped on by a lot of people when revealed. So that's funny. 

Lets not mince words here. The Werehog was crapped on upon reveal for an entirely different reason.

Our first taste, our first glimpse of the Werehog came in a leaked photo. A horrid, dark rendering of the beast that seriously didn't do it justice. We were all left saying "WTF" when we first saw it. We got sideswiped by something we didn't understand - and of course the reaction to it was negative. Dumping on the concept had more to do with a statement of the times and the bad leak than anything else. Even I was sour on the Werehog when I first saw it. The leak robbed me of a chance to give the thing a chance right off the bat.

I don't think anyone had a problem with the NotW mini-movie we got after that. In fact, all I've heard is praise. (the only negative comment I've ever seen on it amounts to little more than -- they didn't make a sequel) The Werehog featuring there didn't sour the pot one bit. It not like he's some poison pill - some vitriol of hate that the fanbase goes out of their way to dump on. If used right, he can be quite enjoyable - as evidenced by the movie, and the comics.

Getting back to my point, it doesn't matter that a vocal crowd took an initial disliking to him. What we do know is two different entities [Sega/Archie] have claimed the Werehog to have some pretty significant positive reception. Enough to warrant a game, a mini-movie and a good run in the comics. I'm willing to buy that at face value. Like it or not, he's got some fans out there.

 

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Your audience is your focus test group, they give you feed back and the game maybe changed before release depending how far the line it is. Beta's aren't really beta's anymore. Alpha's either.

Dude. No. Seriously. Don't even go there. How long have you been with this franchise? I should slap you on the wrist for even bringing up that line of thought.

Because the last time Sega let the fans drive the ship, and deliver what they wanted, we ended up with Shadow toting around an Ak-47 and swearing after Chaos Emeralds.

Soooo yeah, we should totally go down that road. I mean, its not like we haven't talked to death in these forums that our fanbase doesn't know what it wants, and those of us that do know are so deeply divided over the mechanics of the issue. We've beat this issue over the head so many times in the SSMB.

Gaining critical feedback from your main audience is one thing. That is admirable and something Sonic Team has done a better job of as of late. But I'm not about to look to our fanbase for direction when it comes to the direction of the games. You'll be waiting quite a while for a coherent answer.

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2 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

Actually, I think they got it from the fact a lot of kids were writing in wanting to see the Werehog. The people crapping on it were likely teens and adults, but they're not the target demographic of the comic so they had to put up and shut up. 

I'm 100% serious when I say people seem to forget this is a comic for children and just because "Sales are Dropping" amongst older fans doesn't mean that kids aren't enjoying the book.

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That's... called criticism. " i'm not fond of this, I think it would be better this way, here is why" that is called criticism. You can't get upset, because people criticize and don't like a thing you like. As much as I don't like the people who actively crap on any character who isn't sonic, I have the accept they have the right and aren't entitled because they don't like those characters. Its just how they feel.

Well this "give me what I want, and screw everything else because I don't like it" tone you're putting up isn't exactly criticism. Especially if it's being dismissive of those who do like something you're not fond of because you think something else is more important as opposed to what . Doesn't matter if that's how they feel or have the right, it's demanding your preferences to be deserving of special treatment over that of others. And just like you have to accept people who crap on any character that isn't Sonic, you have to accept that what your opinion of what should be important isn't what the comics actually consider important.

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I didn't miss any point, you literally got hurt because I don't like the FF that much. Or rather didn't like them in worlds unite. and Felt like I was being entitled... when I just had an opinion, and still are upset.

Again, I don't really care what you don't like. You'd know that if you weren't trying to make this passive-aggressive jab here. There's plenty of shit I don't like in the comics, but I'm not entitled enough to say they should go away for my sake over those that do like them.

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Because I like sonic and want the main book to be better? 

Well it's doing a fine job after 20+ years despite the things that could have ended it.

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43 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

 

Well this "give me what I want, and screw everything else because I don't like it" tone you're putting up isn't exactly criticism.

If you want me to go in depth into my disposition towards the comic specific stuff I can. But to directly comment on this statement. I'm a consumer? I don't think you should jump off a cliff for liking sally, as basic as she is. But I don't have to like her, or want her around, whether you do or not. Its simple. 

43 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Especially if it's being dismissive of those who do like something you're not fond of because you think something else is more important as opposed to what .

I don't dismiss your opinion, if you like them that's fine. I just don't think their important. Thinking that isn't dismissing your opinion. I actively used an example IE, friends where people didn't like my opinion. 

43 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Doesn't matter if that's how they feel or have the right, it's demanding your preferences to be deserving of special treatment over that of others.

Or I want the comic book to do a cool thing I like, because i'm a consumer and I might buy the comic book more. When you put in the terms and cadence i'm using... its a lot less serious than you are putting it. Everyone has desires like that, about a lot of the media they like, do they come true all the time no. But wishing something was a bit different is fine. I think its a bit strange you are getting so wildly offended over this. 

43 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

And just like you have to accept people who crap on any character that isn't Sonic, you have to accept that what your opinion of what should be important isn't what the comics actually consider important.

Yeah... and thus criticism is born, as to argue that what I think should be important. what are you upset about, seriously? discourse?

43 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Again, I don't really care what you don't like. You'd know that if you weren't trying to make this passive-aggressive jab here. There's plenty of shit I don't like in the comics, but I'm not entitled enough to say they should go away for my sake over those that do like them.

You probably could, its criticism. If you think something is bad, no matter how long its been there, you can argue for its removal. Don't feel like you have to safe guard people feelings when talking about a sonic comic of all things. There are much more delicate subjects that deserve that cadence. 

43 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Well it's doing a fine job after 20+ years despite the things that could have ended it.

Ehh.... Its... hanging in there I guess. 

49 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

I'm 100% serious when I say people seem to forget this is a comic for children and just because "Sales are Dropping" amongst older fans doesn't mean that kids aren't enjoying the book.

When you loose 30-40 percent of your sales, I don't care what the demographic is, that's a problem dude. When you going from 10-9k to 6-5 that's a problem. 

52 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Lets not mince words here. The Werehog was crapped on upon reveal for an entirely different reason.

A lot of people just don't like the design. So no , the obvious reason. Makes sense, sonic characters live and die on designs, its why shadow is still popular for so many. 

52 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Our first taste, our first glimpse of the Werehog came in a leaked photo. A horrid, dark rendering of the beast that seriously didn't do it justice. We were all left saying "WTF" when we first saw it. We got sideswiped by something we didn't understand - and of course the reaction to it was negative. Dumping on the concept had more to do with a statement of the times and the bad leak than anything else. Even I was sour on the Werehog when I first saw it. The leak robbed me of a chance to give the thing a chance right off the bat.

A lot of people didn't like the design ,still don't actualy. 

52 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

I don't think anyone had a problem with the NotW mini-movie we got after that. In fact, all I've heard is praise. (the only negative comment I've ever seen on it amounts to little more than -- they didn't make a sequel) The Werehog featuring there didn't sour the pot one bit. It not like he's some poison pill - some vitriol of hate that the fanbase goes out of their way to dump on. If used right, he can be quite enjoyable - as evidenced by the movie, and the comics.

He kind of is? He ain't silver but the most common sentiment about that hing, " it should have just been knuckles" 

52 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Getting back to my point, it doesn't matter that a vocal crowd took an initial disliking to him. What we do know is two different entities [Sega/Archie] have claimed the Werehog to have some pretty significant positive reception.

And one entity didn't brig it back and the only thing it brought back was the day time game play, and the other entity literally has been going down in sales. Hmm its almost as if people saying they like something doesn't mean a lot of people like something. You know whats a good video game, bayonetta 1 and 2, you know what video games that people didn't buy, bayonetta 1 and 2. Odd because she got into smash irght? Those games didn't do well And just because some people like them doesn't mean those games got significant positive reception. Bayonetta the character did, the games not so much. There have been plenty of times where games companies have compositely over estimated the receptions of things. Might I mention, silver... again. 

52 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Enough to warrant a game, a mini-movie and a good run in the comics. I'm willing to buy that at face value. Like it or not, he's got some fans out there.

I mean sega is pushing the deadly 6 and no one is into them, sega is pushing sonic boom and nothing outside of the TV show related to that thing ( and I think the mobile game) is doing well. So yeah... sega has pushed things and invested money in things that they thought would catch on but didn't.  Bunches of business do it, they are trying to grow a brand... sometimes it don't work out. Also the comic's is a separate thing entierly, and  I think it speaks against your point that people have been asking for this storyline to end for a year now and they have to rush it. 

52 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

Dude. No. Seriously. Don't even go there. How long have you been with this franchise? I should slap you on the wrist for even bringing up that line of thought.

Because the last time Sega let the fans drive the ship, and deliver what they wanted, we ended up with Shadow toting around an Ak-47 and swearing after Chaos Emeralds.

That's why instead of taking everything everyone says at face value , say shadow needing a gun or on the opposite end removing all friends..  You analyze where the criticism is actually coming from and make changes based on that actually take charge in what you are doing. Instead of going blindly because someone told you to handling a delecate surgery with a mallet as someone so eloquently put it. And then shifting the blame on whoever told you to do that, instead of understanding you are a game developer and your job is to filter that into something good. 

52 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Soooo yeah, we should totally go down that road.

Yeah if sega finally learns how to analyze criticism directly maybe we can get more varied sonic products for different people. Like I dunno, that plumber guy. 

52 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

I mean, its not like we haven't talked to death in these forums that our fanbase doesn't know what it wants, and those of us that do know are so deeply divided over the mechanics of the issue. We've beat this issue over the head so many times in the SSMB.

Radical opinion... I don't think mechanic devide is a deep as we make out to be, also sega is a company putting out multiple types of sonic games at once. We say that we are confusing and sega doesn't know what to do, but sega solved this problem before... they could just make different types of sonic games. But we are getting a bit off topic. 

52 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Gaining critical feedback from your main audience is one thing. That is admirable and something Sonic Team has done a better job of as of late.

Eh The deadly 6 still exist

52 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

But I'm not about to look to our fanbase for direction when it comes to the direction of the games. You'll be waiting quite a while for a coherent answer.

Eh not really, you take a lot of the more popular ideas you hear and try to formulate that into possible games. Obviously making a game is more complicated than that. I know this first hand. But the idea that the sonic fanbase is some incoherent mess seems wildly dishonest, because there other companies making multiple types of video games with the same franchise that appeals to multiple types of fans. And i'm kind of tired of this apologist rhetoric in regards to sega, No. Sega is just incompetent rushes shit out and actively doesn't check on shit. They need to do better, flat out. 

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5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

A lot of people didn't like the design ,still don't actualy. 

Whoop-de-doo. And none of that actually stops the Werehog from focus testing well.

You keep trotting that out like its some tangible defense. Okay, some people don't like his design, does that do anything to hinder the Werehog from focus testing well?

Nope.

Does it mean that there are no people out there who could actually like the thing?

Nope.

I have no idea what your getting at with comments like that. We can all see that there has been some negative reception here and there -- particularly in the game verse, but none of that challenges the notion that two different companies claim to come to the same conclusion. You prove nothing by pointing at a rabble of negativity. None of that makes the matter at hand go away. There is an audience for the Werehog. You're personal distaste for it shouldn't prelude Sega or Archie from going after that audience.

 

5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

He kind of is? He ain't silver but the most common sentiment about that hing, " it should have just been knuckles" 

 

I didn't see anyone asking for the Werehog to be replaced with Knux in the mini-movie.

Not seeing any kind of universal condemnation of the character there. Where's the vitriol? Where are the pitchforks?

 

If the Werehog was as loathed as you seem to think, they would follow him there. But they clearly don't. Reception is overwhelmingly positive there.

 

5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

And one entity didn't brig it back and the only thing it brought back was the day time game play, and the other entity literally has been going down in sales. Hmm its almost as if people saying they like something doesn't mean a lot of people like something. You know whats a good video game, bayonetta 1 and 2, you know what video games that people didn't buy, bayonetta 1 and 2. Odd because she got into smash irght? Those games didn't do well And just because some people like them doesn't mean those games got significant positive reception. Bayonetta the character did, the games not so much. There have been plenty of times where games companies have compositely over estimated the receptions of things. Might I mention, silver... again. 

What are you even saying here? That doesn't even make sense.

"the games not so much"

Last time I checked, the Bayonetta games are dang near hailed as triumphs of the Genre. Shoot, Bayo 1 recieved a GOTY nod from IGN. I think that is only one of the single biggest positive receptions a game can possibly get. The were absolutely positively received. You're putting all your stock in the sales basket. Your not even paying attention to the quality of the product.

No one overestimated Bayo's reception. Everyone knows what she is. Platinum acknowledged the critical succsess and the financial undershot of the games - which was the primary reason for the sequel needing an alternate means of funding. What we had was a great game, and a good character that simply didn't sell. Not sure how any of that relates to the current argument -- but you are the one who brought it up.

If anything, it just goes to show you that sales aren't the end all be all as a metric. I can rattle off a long list of worse games that sold much better than Bayonetta. Does that somehow make them better?

and name dropping Silver does nothing for your cause. He's his own character unrelated to Werehog.

 

5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I mean sega is pushing the deadly 6 and no one is into them, sega is pushing sonic boom and nothing outside of the TV show related to that thing ( and I think the mobile game) is doing well. So yeah... sega has pushed things and invested money in things that they thought would catch on but didn't.  Bunches of business do it, they are trying to grow a brand... sometimes it don't work out. Also the comic's is a separate thing entierly, and  I think it speaks against your point that people have been asking for this storyline to end for a year now and they have to rush it. 

Putting so much into Boom before day 1 is attempting to build a brand.

Returning to a concept some four or five years later (i.e. the Werehog) is something else entirely. The Werehog's return in comic form wasn't a marketing push to make it relevant or anything like that. Trying to group it in with the likes of some other initiatives is wrong and you know it .

 

5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

That's why instead of taking everything everyone says at face value , say shadow needing a gun or on the opposite end removing all friends..  You analyze where the criticism is actually coming from and make changes based on that actually take charge in what you are doing. Instead of going blindly because someone told you to handling a delecate surgery with a mallet as someone so eloquently put it. And then shifting the blame on whoever told you to do that, instead of understanding you are a game developer and your job is to filter that into something good.

We are moving farther away from the comics, and we don't need to re-tread this road again. There are other, better topics for that.

All you are doing is ducking the main question here. You've made some wild claims that are disputed by the internal testing of two different companies. Your argument amounts to little more than pointing at the computer screen sales figures and saying "look at that - nobody likes the Werehog".

 

You don't take into account that the price of comics went up over the last few years.

You don't take into account that we are on the heels of a major continuity wipe - that upset a lot of people

You don't take into account that there have been no major Sonic video-games over the past few years - fueling synergistic enthusiasm for Sonic merch.

You didn't take into account the damage of a god awful crossover - smacked right in the middle of the arc. 

 

Nope. Look at the sliding sales. Must be the Werehog.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

Nope. Look at the sliding sales. Must be the Werehog.

No, its because the stories have been uninteresting. I never said that you can't tell a good werehog story, Remember they gerry rigged Shadow's black arms into actually interesting stuff, although admittedly I found it interesting before. But what I am saying some stuff is harder to do in the realm of making the game story actually interesting, than others. I think unleashed is very hard to do, this isn't me blaming Ian ,besides whoevers idea it was to do it in the first place. They picked a story who's benefit is something that isn't really accessible which is a specific type of gameplay. And because of that use it as a way to expand the world, something than Ian is not good at it. There is a subltitly that you kind of need to use when doing visual world building than Ian has failed at every time. The problem is just trying to adapt unleashed, you know how they adapted shadow's game. It happened, they didn't adapted, they made a new story loosely based on that, I think it would have been a much better route to go in that regard. 

Also did account for that crappy crossover, its why the conversation started.

Didn't account for the games though, good call  

You might be like " why didn't he respond to the rest' this was getting too long, I cut it down. You don't wanna hear me go one forever about this. So I'm going to cut down my answer to just this. So we can veer this back on topic

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1 hour ago, Fusion Ellipsis said:

...So heres some concept covers for the Mega Drive and Next level covers.

Mega drive:

latest?cb=20161103124629 latest?cb=20161103124708

Next Level: They're really small tho...

latest?cb=20161103162727 latest?cb=20161103162727 latest?cb=20161103162727 latest?cb=20161103162916

I like the American Sonic CD boxart nod.

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28 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

No, its because the stories have been uninteresting.

Subjective.

 

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 And because of that use it as a way to expand the world, something than Ian is not good at it. There is a subltitly that you kind of need to use when doing visual world building than Ian has failed at every time.

Highly subjective and HIGHLY controversial.

I think, considering the circumstances, Ian's done a pretty admirable job of world building. Moving past my opinions, there is a pretty good consensus round these parts that a lot of the new additions to the world are very welcome and eagerly anticipated. The biggest asset of this world building is represented by the Egg Bosses themselves. How can you say Ian fails every time at world building when we have so many positively received building blocks of a new world. Cassia and Clove? Nepenthe and the Shamar FF's? The carry overs like the B.B. Armada? Cutie-Puff-Mc-Adoraboo Thunderbolt? All that is quality world building and all that is Ian.

If you talk in absolutes like that -- "failed every time" -- then I'm going to sledge hammer the nail on the head. EVERY. TIME.

 

The slide in sales is due to a multitude of factors. We aren't able to pin it down on any one or two things. We both agree to that. In that same light, you can't utilize current sales as the end all be all condemnation on what that comic is doing right now. It doesn't work like that. Its not some indisputable evidence that the Werehog is ineffective or that the world building has failed.

Under that kind of alarmist mentality, we should look back at the last mainstream Sonic game, realise that it failed to sell a million copies, and throw the baby out with the bath water by selling the IP.

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I don't dismiss your opinion, if you like them that's fine. I just don't think their important. Thinking that isn't dismissing your opinion. I actively used an example IE, friends where people didn't like my opinion. 

Actually, no. You went about quoting sales figures of the comics as an example of why characters like the FF aren't important as well as trying to speak for millions of Sonic fans out there over them, in complete disregard to the fact that Sega themselves don't seem to think so to bar them from everything. That's pretty dismissive.

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Or I want the comic book to do a cool thing I like, because i'm a consumer and I might buy the comic book more. When you put in the terms and cadence i'm using... its a lot less serious than you are putting it. Everyone has desires like that, about a lot of the media they like, do they come true all the time no. But wishing something was a bit different is fine.

Which wasn't exactly what you were doing. You came in, said the FF shouldn't be in a crossover because they shouldn't be important, and then proceeded to emphasize that about how the comic sales of 6000 issues each mean that they aren't worth anything on top of Archie being on fire for whatever reason.

Big difference right there - this would be a whole different conversation if this was strictly about what you prefer instead of "what I like should be important," hence why you were called out over being entitled.

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I think its a bit strange you are getting so wildly offended over this. 

I think it's strange you can tell how I'm feeling through a computer screen despite me telling you twice I didn't care whether you like the things I did.

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You probably could, its criticism. If you think something is bad, no matter how long its been there, you can argue for its removal. Don't feel like you have to safe guard people feelings when talking about a sonic comic of all things. There are much more delicate subjects that deserve that cadence. 

I think I'll stick to being considerate of those who like the things I don't like and let them have their enjoyment, much as the same way as I would want them to respectfully let me have mine in return. And rather than suggest somethings removal, I'll suggest how something I don't like can be made better with their thoughts in mind.

Kthanks.

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On 11/2/2016 at 4:19 AM, VEDJ-F said:

Uh...yeah it did. The only reason Archie got away with this was

1. It wasn't made explicitly clear they died.

2. It was never going to stick, which everyone picked up on and as a result instead of it increasing excitement like Kaminski wanted, it came off as a forced effort to up the ante from Collide like any Marvel/DC schlock. 

Let me clarify what I mean: when I said the game characters died is that they could have pulled the exact same stunt with the Freedom Fighters or other miscellaneous characters and don't have to explicitly say "they're dead."

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As much as I admittedly didn't care too much to see the Freedom Fighters in World's Unite, seeing as how it's been an incredibly hard personal task getting used to them as main characters in this book (something I, to this day, feel I still haven't managed to do) the fact of the matter is, the story would have sucked whether the game characters were there or not. The concerns people had about them throwing all the shit they could at the readers was completely well founded and not at all handled with any care.

Seeing them visit the worlds of these characters from almost every Capcom and SEGA series was a cool thing on it's own but the novelty of something like that can't stand on it's own and it sure as fuck can't go on for as long as it did in those issues without heavy repercussions. I don't even remember how long it happened but I feel like it was just two issues straight of them going to each new world and asking "Hey, can you help us?" and the protagonists there going "Yeah sure! Here's who we are and what we do first. If we explained it in a confusing way that someone whose never played these games before wouldn't be able to pick up on then too bad~!" 

It was nothing but constant confusion all around for me. I only remember a handful of things interesting me when it came to how they were utilized. The Okami dog... and the Street Fighter guys... and Alex Kidd... NIGHTS was there but I don't think he did anything... some soldier who kept losing his armor... and the Skies of Arcadia guys with their confusing rhetoric...

Oh and the Deadly Six, who I was initially kind of excited to see, showed up with an introduction that was handled even worse in the comics then in Lost World. I didn't even think that was possible. But no, their first impression on us in the comics were as mind-controlled puppets who got beat in the first few issues and tossed in the garbage... I was so confused. I had no idea what the deal was. Why even waste time and issues focusing on them then?

I don't even remember all the people from Megaman X and what they did.

And Sigma. Good God what a let down. That "fight" with the two golden heroes at the end was so quick and weirdly simple. It sucked. Seriously, what the fuck?!

I think the only thing I remember liking was Sticks, Comedy Chimp, and the Beaver being there... and Xander Payne. Probably because I hadn't read the Megaman comics and never played the games but he came off as rather interesting and fun to me. Don't know if that's a popular consensus or not. Oh and I did kind of like the evil versions of Sonic and Megaman. I don't remember how they turned back to normal though. Been a while since I've gone back to that stuff. I mostly just remember being confused, underwhelmed, and hating it.

 

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On 11/3/2016 at 3:09 PM, Sega DogTagz said:

Subjective.

Yes

On 11/3/2016 at 3:09 PM, Sega DogTagz said:

 

Highly subjective and HIGHLY controversial.

Oh?

On 11/3/2016 at 3:09 PM, Sega DogTagz said:

I think, considering the circumstances, Ian's done a pretty admirable job of world building. Moving past my opinions, there is a pretty good consensus round these parts that a lot of the new additions to the world are very welcome and eagerly anticipated.

New additions to the world is fine,but ian's problem isn't addition. His problem is thinking he has to show you every addition that he's made to the world, strait up we didn't have to see dulcy. That could have been an off hand reference and you would have saved an an entire arc. The book is filled with this having to showing things directly to you, when a more nuanced way is to show it in the background and let you come to your own conclusion. " Oh gun ships are helping people in the background, we don't have to dedicate pages to explaining that later, because we can just draw that in the background and that solves that problem"

On 11/3/2016 at 3:09 PM, Sega DogTagz said:

The biggest asset of this world building is represented by the Egg Bosses themselves.

They are a giant monolith to how crappily designed the D6 are. Can we have them instead of the D6 please in the games, can we just throw the D6 in the trash. 

On 11/3/2016 at 3:09 PM, Sega DogTagz said:

How can you say Ian fails every time at world building when we have so many positively received building blocks of a new world.

Because world building is more than just adding things, its interweaving those things an interesting way that create's interesting stories and narratives that make you want to engage. The main books been trash for a hot minute, so he's kind of been failing to do that. 

On 11/3/2016 at 3:09 PM, Sega DogTagz said:

Cassia and Clove? Nepenthe and the Shamar FF's? The carry overs like the B.B. Armada? Cutie-Puff-Mc-Adoraboo Thunderbolt? All that is quality world building and all that is Ian.

Those are adding characters, using them and making them interesting is world building and he hasn't made a great deal of them interesting. 

On 11/3/2016 at 3:09 PM, Sega DogTagz said:

If you talk in absolutes like that -- "failed every time" -- then I'm going to sledge hammer the nail on the head. EVERY. TIME.

I'm allowed to have opinions. 

On 11/3/2016 at 3:09 PM, Sega DogTagz said:

 

Under that kind of alarmist mentality, we should look back at the last mainstream Sonic game, realise that it failed to sell a million copies, and throw the baby out with the bath water by selling the IP.

Or you reevaluate what you are doing and change it. Like not focusing an arc that lasted for years on unleashed, and going " lets... ;lets not do that" 

On 11/3/2016 at 3:55 PM, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

 

Actually, no. You went about quoting sales figures of the comics as an example of why characters like the FF aren't important as well as trying to speak for millions of Sonic fans out there over them,

One I did do that, and i'm not " speaking for millions of sonic fans" the games are more popular than the comic and its why folks are here. Which is fact, there is no arguing that. Its factually why the book exists. I just said I didn't like the FF, that is my own opinion. Or rather I did not see their point in that crossover. 

On 11/3/2016 at 3:55 PM, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

in complete disregard to the fact that Sega themselves don't seem to think so to bar them from everything. That's pretty dismissive.

I didn't disregard that, I then mentioned the fact archie had to argue for them. And sega has let things continue on with sonic and other franchises that they later regret. It isn't as cut and dry as " They are still here so sega must like them" sega is a company split into different parts. Rumor is sega of Japan doesn't like sonic boom, but its still around because someone else is heading it. As long as it isn't a financial or legal inconvenience sure, why not keep the FF around the people who make the comic seem to think they have value. Sega doesn't have to. Sega isn't putting massive amounts of love into every decision regarding sonic, sometimes its just " sure but if this happens again, no" 

On 11/3/2016 at 3:55 PM, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Which wasn't exactly what you were doing. You came in, said the FF shouldn't be in a crossover because they shouldn't be important,

I do think that, I think game characters are cooler and more important especially in a video game crossover yes. I do think that, I do think the video game characters should be important in the video game crossover. 

I did do that thing, you just don't agree with my opinion. That's fine, but you can't say i'm being mean because you don't like my opinion. At least in this sense.

On 11/3/2016 at 3:55 PM, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

and then proceeded to emphasize that about how the comic sales of 6000 issues each mean that they aren't worth anything on top of Archie being on fire for whatever reason.

Actually I mentioned the loss of sales in regards to the werehog, if you don't remember. That crossover did quite well actually. I did say if they were gotten rid of I don't think the sea would be filled with as many angry cries as you claim though. 

Also archie being on fire was just in referencing in them continuing to be able to use those characters,

On 11/3/2016 at 3:55 PM, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Big difference right there - this would be a whole different conversation if this was strictly about what you prefer instead of "what I like should be important," hence why you were called out over being entitled.

Those mean the same thing, or are we so elementary school do I need to put IMO in front of everything.What I would prefer is the things I feel are important getting more spot light. Its the same damn thing. What are you actually arguing here. 

On 11/3/2016 at 3:55 PM, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I think it's strange you can tell how I'm feeling through a computer screen despite me telling you twice I didn't care whether you like the things I did.

I mean, you are telling me I'm entitled because I don't think some furry animal characters should be less important than some other furry animal characters. To suggest I'm entitled for having an opinion about something so... minor.. I would imagine one would be upset, yes. And that's fine, sometimes talking about sonic peaves me off too. 

As for the latter half of this sentence, actions speak louder than words. Or in this case greater prose speak louder than individual statements. 

On 11/3/2016 at 3:55 PM, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I think I'll stick to being considerate of those who like the things I don't like and let them have their enjoyment,

As have I. I have not told you to burn your comics, I have not insulted you directly. I have not told you your enjoyment of these comics and characters are wrong. I just said  I didn't like some of them. And if having an opinion about that makes your enjoyment less so, maybe you didn't really like it all that much in the first place. 

On 11/3/2016 at 3:55 PM, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

much as the same way as I would want them to respectfully let me have mine in return.

Yet you have not given me that same courtesy it seems. 

On 11/3/2016 at 3:55 PM, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

And rather than suggest somethings removal, I'll suggest how something I don't like can be made better with their thoughts in mind.

Kthanks.

Or like in reality, sometimes removing something makes it better for someone else. and maybe, just maybe, not all opinions need other peoples thoughts in mind. Sometimes people opinions are a bit exclusionary to some, like those who only like adventure era sonic or those who only like classic, but its how they feel and its what makes them happy. While yes,  excluding people can get a bit.... horrifying when talking about much grander subjects, this... this comic, these characters. You are just getting upset for no reason, because I don't like some characters. Calm down. 

Thank you. 

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Finally sat down and read Mega Drive next level. The character interaction and the little mini arc Sonic had made it even better than the first one. I wish this was running as some kind of monthly series. Cutting out all the fat and focusing on the main four interacting with eachother and overcoming challenges has been way better to me than any of the other archie stuff I've read.

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I think my favorite parts of the Mega Drive issues so far have been the half-page establishing shots for each Zone. You really get a sense of the level's design as it would appear in a game.

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Next Level was kind of "meh" for me. Plot flat, kind of boring I would say. I never cared about cuteness, so I guess I can't find that much enjoyment from art like the rest of you guys(Thought, I liked environment in the backgrounds). And none of characters really stood out. Sonic is smart-mouth. Tails is brain. Knuckles is idiot. Amy is... a girl. Another words, generic interactions. Metal Sonic was highlight of this but not for long unfortunately.

 

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7 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

New additions to the world is fine,but ian's problem isn't addition. His problem is thinking he has to show you every addition that he's made to the world, strait up we didn't have to see dulcy. That could have been an off hand reference and you would have saved an an entire arc. The book is filled with this having to showing things directly to you, when a more nuanced way is to show it in the background and let you come to your own conclusion. " Oh gun ships are helping people in the background, we don't have to dedicate pages to explaining that later, because we can just draw that in the background and that solves that problem"

Care to explain what Maw is cooking up then? Cause I'm pretty sure that got left up to our imaginations and future interpretations. How about how that whole Eclipse situation played out? His next move is anyone's guess.

Ian has had plenty of stuff running in the background. He has multiple characters in Snivley, Breezie and Akult whose primary purpose at the moment is to passively/aggressively dictate how the world continues to unravel. Those characters utilize the same kind of off the hand references, and the same kind of background filler you speak of that will be the crux of future developments.

Sure, Ian has introduced alot, but it doesn't sound like you are willing to give credit where credit is due. There is no shortage of interesting nuances going on behind the scenes. There are four or five major plotlines going on in the background. You don't even have to look hard to see them.

 

7 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

They are a giant monolith to how crappily designed the D6 are. Can we have them instead of the D6 please in the games, can we just throw the D6 in the trash. 

Because world building is more than just adding things, its interweaving those things an interesting way that create's interesting stories and narratives that make you want to engage. The main books been trash for a hot minute, so he's kind of been failing to do that. 

 

So on one hand, you praise the Egg Bosses as champions of design and what the D6 should have been, but on the other you claim that Ian hasn't done a good job making interesting stories? Because I'm pretty sure if you want to market the Egg Bosses as "bad guys done right" then you need to admit that a good deal of what makes them so great are their backstories and the situations they currently find themselves in.

Nephy isn't great just because of her design. She's awesome because of her contorted worldview and the means she's willing to go in order to protect it and the people around her.

that's an interesting narrative.

Cassia and Clove aren't just great because the help balance the female quota. They are cool because of the sad situation Clove has found hereself in and they represent the hold Eggman has on people with little other choice.

that's a compelling story.

You seem to agree with me that the Egg Bosses are pretty great. Well guess what? I'm pretty sure that the same reasons that make them great are the very same "interesting" and "compelling" interweaving of stories you just claimed the book to be lacking.

Make up your mind.

 

7 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

I'm allowed to have opinions. 

Right you are. But when you say things like that you make it mighty easy to shoot you down in a ball of flames.

When you say

"I like Ice cream"

That's an opinion you are more than entitled to it.

When you say

"I like ALL flavors of ice cream. period. forever"

Well then, that turns into something else entirely. Because I bet I can find a flavor or two that would not tickle your fancy. Just because its an opinion, does not allow you to speak in such overt tones, since it would then be incredibly easy for someone to call you out on your B.S.

How's that Suppository flavored Ice Cream doin it for ya?

Now, when you say Ian fails at ALL attempts at world building - I can call your "opinion" out as total bull crap. Firstly, because I already know there are several elements of the new world that you have already claimed to enjoy -- you've said so in this very topic. Secondly, in order for that statement to be truthful to your beliefs -- even if it is being presented as an opinion -- then you would have to be willing to swear off on everything this side of issue 252 as a waste and not worth exploring. Every plot line, every character, every interaction and every story.

I am utterly CONFIDENT that you can't do that with a straight face. Not with Characters like the Egg Bosses running around. Not with Arc's like Champions sitting in the middle of it. There is no way something in there isn't a bright spot for even the biggest cynic of the new world. I don't need to put words in your mouth to feel this confident. You've already confessed to it. 

Which means that when you present the "opinion" that Ian fails every time, you are fibbing to yourself and to me. Simple as that.

I don't know if you were just exaggerating to try and sound more menacing, but when you say stuff like that it makes it hard to take your opinions seriously. They aren't even consistent from sentence to sentence. The Egg Bosses are what the D6 should have been - but Ian fails at all attempts at world building. Y'see how that doesn't add up? Those are your words.

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14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Care to explain what Maw is cooking up then? Cause I'm pretty sure that got left up to our imaginations and future interpretations. How about how that whole Eclipse situation played out? His next move is anyone's guess.

That's not building the world, that's adding on to the plot. We don't know what eggman has planned next, that doesn't really fill out the world does it 

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Ian has had plenty of stuff running in the background. He has multiple characters in Snivley, Breezie and Akult whose primary purpose at the moment is to passively/aggressively dictate how the world continues to unravel.

I have yet to see this in a meaningful manner, we got one guy doing nothing but acting shady and another one running, while entertainment what is essentially a fighting tournament.Your argument is well " this exists" but the thing that exists isn't doing anything. 

You brought up eclipse, while what eclipse plan is, isn't world building, eclipse himself and having other black arms, that's actually world or in this case universe building, the sea mobians, world building. 

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Those characters utilize the same kind of off the hand references, and the same kind of background filler you speak of that will be the crux of future developments.

Not as much as they should. 

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Sure, Ian has introduced alot, but it doesn't sound like you are willing to give credit where credit is due.

Or I don't think its that good, and I feel like valuable time is wasted by things that can be represented visually. I am a stickler for having visual elements of your story that don't need to be explained, let the mind wonder can be addressed later. And I feel like its not being used as it should be.

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

There is no shortage of interesting nuances going on behind the scenes. There are four or five major plotlines going on in the background. You don't even have to look hard to see them.

Eh?When those stories start picking up at a reasonable pace and get actually interesting , call me. As of currently there are a bunch of threads kind of going nowhere that take years to complete with no sign of pay off in site. I like eclipse , I like shadow, he's my favorite character , but its really hard to give shit about his story with eclipse when it takes actual years to move along and when it does there is little to no development or in the case of the last chapter eclipse isn't even in it. Maybe its the fault of the amount of books, or restrictions I don't.

That's not even mentioning some of the stories just not being interesting, and the ones that actually are take forever to get to. Or some cases, due to the legal reasons have are now vanished and can't be referenced. 

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

 

So on one hand, you praise the Egg Bosses as champions of design and what the D6 should have been, but on the other you claim that Ian hasn't done a good job making interesting stories?

Character design and personally aren't stories. Some people think they are, but they aren't. I like shadow's character in sonic 06, sonic 06 is a shit game with a shit story. 

I think the eggbosses personality wise are interesting, visually as well. And the deers actually have one of the few interesting plot threads going. That doesn't make every story in this book good. 

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Because I'm pretty sure if you want to market the Egg Bosses as "bad guys done right" then you need to admit that a good deal of what makes them so great are their backstories and the situations they currently find themselves in.

Characters can have interesting personalities and designs and have shit backstories. While yes backstories can really make a character , again shadow fan,  sometimes they aren't necessary. Sometimes if a character comes off really good, it doesn't really matter where they are from its where they are at . 

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Nephy isn't great just because of her design. She's awesome because of her contorted worldview and the means she's willing to go in order to protect it and the people around her.

That's subjective my dude. 

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

that's an interesting narrative.

Subjective my dude. 

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Cassia and Clove aren't just great because the help balance the female quota. They are cool because of the sad situation Clove has found hereself in and they represent the hold Eggman has on people with little other choice.

that's a compelling story.

Whoah where did quota's even come from? Why can't we have female characters because the creators want to make female characters. Furthermore again, subjective you can't dictate where interest comes from. 

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

You seem to agree with me that the Egg Bosses are pretty great. Well guess what? I'm pretty sure that the same reasons that make them great are the very same "interesting" and "compelling" interweaving of stories you just claimed the book to be lacking.

Make up your mind.

No, they have cool personalities and cool designs. Sometimes stories don't matter my dude. While yes, the deer's thing is cool, the rest of em, I just like how they act and look. Don't forget while I like shadow... a lot of sonic characters are sold on the same principle. Sonic at the end of the day, is kind of just some dude. Not everyone needs to be knuckles, shadow or blaze, sometimes your bean and that's ok. Sometimes you throw bombs. 

The idea that people only like characters off of one predetermined bases seems... dismissive or not understanding or a sort of refusal to understand people may think differently than you. And I saw you mention peoples love of different types of sonic, so I know its not the latter. 

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

 

Right you are. But when you say things like that you make it mighty easy to shoot you down in a ball of flames.

When you say

"I like Ice cream"

That's an opinion you are more than entitled to it.

When you say

"I like ALL flavors of ice cream. period. forever"

What even is this example? I Never made s a statement remotely like this at all. Like seriously... who are you talking to? Are you having a secret 2nd discussion with someone I can't see?

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Well then, that turns into something else entirely. Because I bet I can find a flavor or two that would not tickle your fancy. Just because its an opinion, does not allow you to speak in such overt tones, since it would then be incredibly easy for someone to call you out on your B.S.

I think Ian has failed at world building every if not most times he's attempted it on a large scale. You can't call bullshit on that, because that's what I think that is not a fact, nor am I asserting it as one, its something I think and has hindered by enjoyment of this book. Now If I said, " Ian's failure at world building is why no one likes this book" or to fix your ice cream example " no one likes this ice cream"  ( although oddly enough, not fond of ice cream myself) that's a declarity statement meant to assert my opinion as fact or a sort of rule, you may then argue and call my opinion the BS that it is. however me not liking something unless its whole sale contradictory to something I said earlier like " I don't like... vegetables" then I say " I am extremely fond of carrots". But yeah, there is no bullshit to call out because i'm not fond of something. You may investigate why i'm not fond of the thing. 

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

How's that Suppository flavored Ice Cream doin it for ya?

...What?

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Now, when you say Ian fails at ALL attempts at world building - I can call your "opinion" out as total bull crap. Firstly, because I already know there are several elements of the new world that you have already claimed to enjoy -- you've said so in this very topic.

Characters and personalities alone don't build a world, stories and interweaving those things interestingly do. So yeah my enjoying the Eggbosses doens't mean I like the world... I just means I like those characters. You realize you can like elements of a thing with out liking the whole thing... right? Because if that's the crux of this argument... I shouldn't have to say that. I'll leave it at that. 

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Secondly, in order for that statement to be truthful to your beliefs -- even if it is being presented as an opinion -- then you would have to be willing to swear off on everything this side of issue 252 as a waste and not worth exploring. Every plot line, every character, every interaction and every story.

No, not really. Again you seem to not be getting elements of a story aren't world building inherently thing. Maybe in the future the roboticization and shadow alien thing and knuckles... whatever the hell he has going on will pay off. But as of currently they are vague unsatisfying dead ends, vague unsatisfying dead ends with potential but vague unsatisfying dead ends none the less. Shadow's interactions with eclipse are interesting, but besides " yo there are more aliens"...there isn't much else to go ne, and they aren't building towards a lager world, its just some beef shadow has with his 2nd cousin. 

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

I am utterly CONFIDENT that you can't do that with a straight face. Not with Characters like the Egg Bosses running around.

I did, I'll do it again

I don't think ian's attempts at world building have been interesting yet, the ones that have potential to so suffer from as of currently unsatisfying dead ends, and the bonus of those stories taking years to develop which is less incentive for me to care.  

Huh, now that I think about the large gap , and I mean years , might the reason so many folks are putting down the book. Why read it when your storyline isn't going to be addressed until you are graduating college. Huh. 

Anywho

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Not with Arc's like Champions sitting in the middle of it. There is no way something in there isn't a bright spot for even the biggest cynic of the new world.

I valued that more for the fights than the world building, wouldn't mind an real full on anime-esque tournament arc with everyone. But the stuff with brieezie and the werehog, I gave no shits. I just wanted to sega satanshiro. So yeah a weird one off tournament with very little reason to care about the main narrative being the most interesting part of a boring several years long arc about world building doesn't help your argument much 

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

I don't need to put words in your mouth to feel this confident. You've already confessed to it. 

No, you don't seem to understand what words mean, because you seem to think World building = All narrative in a a thing ever. That does not mean that. One can contribute to another, they are not however linked. 

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Which means that when you present the "opinion" that Ian fails every time, you are fibbing to yourself and to me. Simple as that.

No because you have failed to understand how opinions work. And parts of a narrative for that matter. 

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

I don't know if you were just exaggerating to try and sound more menacing,

Menacing,Oh never been called that. I like that, makes me sound like a bad guy. Don't know how that applies here though, I just don't like the world building in the funny animal comic books. I don't really know how that's menacing. 

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

but when you say stuff like that it makes it hard to take your opinions seriously.

When you understand the idea of liking elements of a thing and not the whole thing it makes complete sense. Have you seriously never heard people criticize things like " the character moments were good, but the over all story was poor" it happens all the , I do not believe you never heard that. 

14 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

They aren't even consistent from sentence to sentence. The Egg Bosses are what the D6 should have been - but Ian fails at all attempts at world building. Y'see how that doesn't add up? Those are your words.

Yeah, I like these characters. But hate their world, lets put them in a better world, the main game canon. Taking characters people like and putting them or wishing they were in better narratives is one of the most common wishes and criticisms of literature and media in general and is the bases for multiple world famous stories. 

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Okay, SU #91 came to me around in first days of this week and Next Level was on time. Universe's Off Panel though felt a bit of a nod towards Sonic's Twitter account... that was funny. The thing is it was good issue but somehow adding Razor in felt a bit too convenient even when it was backed up with the "friendship-reason". About the same time than Vector questioned what Echo was needing detectives for I asked the same question myself. That last panel though, Why Vector had a starfish(?) on his right headphone place? At least that's how it seemed to me... Sorry if I got it wrong.

Next Level felt better than first Mega Drive since they were over character introductions, pacing was a bit calmer (more time in places) and the story started to kick in. Sonic was pretty quick to come to a conclusion he'd maybe like things better with his friends around but well, at least it didn't happen in a minute and there was at least some kind of structure there. All in all, I liked Next Level better than the first one. Off Panel's robots, though... I don't think that first hedgie-bot had scars that recognizable, for me it seemed more like some kind of stripes around his collar, at least one could argue like that, but still it did bring certaing guy to my mind...

_______________________________________

Now, being the masochist I am, I'll put my hands in the fireplace while fire's on: in my point of view comics mean more than games. I'm not that good of a gamer, I've always liked reading because of stories. Were I first gotten in games than in comics I don't know what would've happened, and I got into the comics pretty much by kind of coincidence. 

When talking about feelings in general but also in particular about someone's interence towards something you come to a values you can't really measure. For example one can measure one's mass, height, personal gravity acceleration and it's effects considering time-dilation in universe etc. in comparable ways, and, you know, actually compare it with other concrete values other people have. When talking about emotions, one can't do same: the I-like-this-guy-10x-times-more-than-you-and-your-friends-like-that-one -logic cannot be put into mathematical equation telling you how much better some characters are when compared with others. That's no science, I should know that. And by that, ultimately telling everybody how game characters are absolutely better for about anything is... not that wise. And turning comics into stuff we have in games... Has anybody read any of those Dark Horse's(?) Digimon comics? I prefer the real deal. And really, I don't want to read about games, they've no epic plots nowadays. I want to have plots. And characters who can grow. There's no gameplay interfering so the story would be all-naked, and that wouldn't look too pretty... And don't forget the butterknife guys! :D As you were talking about WU, it's maybe the one thing I'll probably remember even after years have passed...

When thinking over this around profiting-wise, you can think it like this; comics have been going on like this for some time now. There's people those like and people who don't. If Archie were suddenly changing story structure too drastically those who like it now would probably drop off. Already-goners couldn't (mostly) care less anymore, so who would buy? Pretty much no-one considered as a fan at least. Some maybe but those would be on board  most likely out of habit/because of principles.

And by the way, someone mentioned at one point (the one page before this) about how SoJ prefers game sonic characters over comics especially when talking about Sega's interences in general (something about Rouge and Sally comparing...) Well, to be honest, I've talked with guys over the Internet who're pretty certain SoJ could pretty much care less about Sonic in general. Were you to ask them about it, I honestly don't know what kind of an answer you'd get. Considering if they'd even "know" what you're talking about. If Rouge would be bigger, at least some of that would come out of her plainly being something they've heard of at least once, not saying anything about actually liking her. Archie/SatAM/AoStH stuff is pretty much American/Western exclusive stuff, heck, even around here (in not-Japan not-America) people would know of maybe Sonic and Tails, Knuckles maybe if you're lucky, but any others are pretty much pure luck (or because of Nostalgia Critic's "rant" about Sonic animations) if someone knows of them. Even game cast (even Shadow). So take that guys, I'm the oddball in here (not-Japan not-America)!

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On November 5, 2016 at 0:32 PM, Shadowlax said:

Yet you have not given me that same courtesy it seems.

Because you've done absolutely nothing to earn it - in fact, you've done, and continue to do the exact opposite with your dismissive attitude and strawmans, nevermind patronizing statements like this:

On November 5, 2016 at 0:32 PM, Shadowlax said:

 You are just getting upset for no reason, because I don't like some characters. Calm down. 

Thank you. 

Because somehow, more words = I'm angry. That's some bizarre logic right there.

On November 5, 2016 at 0:32 PM, Shadowlax said:

Or like in reality, sometimes removing something makes it better for someone else.

Yes, and we call that "entitlement," especially when one would do so at the expense of making it less better for someone else for losing what they like.

It goes without saying, that's not being "realistic," its being "selfish."

 

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5 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

You brought up eclipse, while what eclipse plan is, isn't world building, eclipse himself and having other black arms, that's actually world or in this case universe building, the sea mobians, world building.  

I'm sorry, but could you repeat that?

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5 hours ago, BlueSky said:

Okay, SU #91 came to me around in first days of this week and Next Level was on time. Universe's Off Panel though felt a bit of a nod towards Sonic's Twitter account... that was funny. The thing is it was good issue but somehow adding Razor in felt a bit too convenient even when it was backed up with the "friendship-reason". About the same time than Vector questioned what Echo was needing detectives for I asked the same question myself. That last panel though, Why Vector had a starfish(?) on his right headphone place? At least that's how it seemed to me... Sorry if I got it wrong.

You just brought me to an idea...What if Lieutenant Echo is actually in on the kidnapping? I feel this would be a great twist for the arc, especially since we have Razor as our typical suspect who's obviously been with the pirates before. But her? There's something that seems almost too convenient with her story, and even the issue's cover points to her being a villain. There's a lot that doesn't make sense right now, of course, like why would she hire and lead the Chaotix to the pirates' trap?

This is probably just me, though, hoping for some sort of crime fiction here. They probably just didn't want the Chaotix investigating a whole issue to get them on that pirate ship faster.

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5 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Because you've done absolutely nothing to earn it - in fact, you've done, and continue to do the exact opposite with your dismissive attitude and strawmans, nevermind patronizing statements like this:

I have respected your right to have opinions and have argued against those opinions, you have argued against my having one. 

5 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Because somehow, more words = I'm angry. That's some bizarre logic right there.

No, but words saying that I'm entitled because I don't like what you like. Maybe suggest that you might be a bit upset yes. 

5 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Yes, and we call that "entitlement," especially when one would do so at the expense of making it less better for someone else for losing what they like.

 

5 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

It goes without saying, that's not being "realistic," its being "selfish."

 

No you call that having an opinion that contrasts yours. And you deal with it, like an adult.People are not obligated to like what you like or even desire what you desire or even want it around. This is a concept learned in kindergarden. I have no actual interest being a person that teaches people concepts learned in kindergarden so if this is where this argument is going, you are going to have to pay me. Because if i'm going to be a kindergarden teacher, you are going to have to pay me. 

 

1 hour ago, Sonictrainer said:

I'm sorry, but could you repeat that?

To put it simply. To have a chatacyer exist isn't building a world, the implications and casuations for that existence can be. And even if they are, it doesn't mean they are being used to their fullest potential, although the current universe arc is doing an pretty decent job. If it sticks the landing, this might be the first bit of meaningful expansion in a while.  Not like a crazy alien arc, or some too long several year werehog thing , just chaotix doing a job. And letting the background of that job sort of play out itself. 

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