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The whole King Acorn thing is such a small part of the overall story that it's basically only there as a nod to events more dedicated readers already know about. It's not something they have to dive into nor is it too much for it to take over the story for any casual readers. We're talking about something that takes up a very small part of the overall issue's real estate.

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13 minutes ago, Razorsaw said:

The whole King Acorn thing is such a small part of the overall story that it's basically only there as a nod to events more dedicated readers already know about. It's not something they have to dive into nor is it too much for it to take over the story for any casual readers. We're talking about something that takes up a very small part of the overall issue's real estate.

Uh, no it really is a big part of the overall story. Naugus' escape from the Special Zone or where he got trapped in the New252 timeline is pretty important to the events of the Great War, especially when we saw specifically that Naugus-Acorn is the one sending Sonic out on missions against Eggman himself. Naugus is one of the major players in the events of what occured in the past, and it's a huge reason why he's in conflict with the Freedom Fighters now. Because of his prior defeats and his stopped attempts to take over the kingdom before, this all explains why Naugus is the enemy of the Freedom Fighters, and he was literally the second biggest villain in the Shattered World Crisis. 

It still makes your point of this being a jumping on point as irrelevant because it explains absolutely nothing about what's occurring in the present story arc, which will again be acting as a huge aftermath of the Shattered World Crisis. If this wanted to do a proper jumping on point, it would've properly tied in the comic's past to some of the games' plot and hell, maybe even cut that down to maybe Sonic 1 at most, instead of just cutting off at random points to include all four games without properly tying them into previous events.

And that's the worst thing, all of the other instances had a connection to the comic's world at large. Heroes had it clear that Metal Sonic and Breezie worked together at some point, Tails' Sky Patrol made it clear that Naugus and Wendy were partners and set up their vendetta against Eggman, Sonic 2 Game Gear worked in the Breezie origins plot, as well as the above Sky Patrol plot. This could have been a best of both worlds situation where Sonic 1 is the only game adapted, and it works in the origins of the Great War, and maybe show Sonic and the Freedom Fighters meeting during the adventure. Tie it into some of the comic's past events so it provides new information and clarifying previous information for pre-existing readers while using game material to draw in new readers, and provide them with context of the plot of the comic going into the future.

As is, it's not a jumping on point. The very idea of this being a jumping on point falls apart because the games plot as of right now have absolutely no relevance to the comic because they never bothered to do anything outside of adding a few quips from Snively and a few one liners. It's not an interesting enough deviation from the original games' plots, and doesn't have any kind of information to allow a new reader to jump into the comic, therefore having no reason to appeal to the possible new readers, while it doesn't provide any new or interesting information for pre-existing fans to be interested. At best, they'll get "Oh, there's Snively and Eggman lampshading something silly!" and that's it. This entire arc so far is nothing more than a failure of a cash-in, trying to appeal to both camps, and falling flat on it's face, and unless Parts 3 and 4 seriously up their ante big time, this arc is gonna be as infamous as Genesis, if not worse. 

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46 minutes ago, Razorsaw said:

... Yeah. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

No actually, it's called me making a clear argument about why this doesn't work out for a jumping on point for the comic, and you're now trying to make it out as me having an overreaction instead of coming up with an actual counter-argument. 

But whatever.

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It's a small nod to something we already know about from flashbacks. That's all it's there for. We don't need anything more from it, and in fact, a long storyarc about a character non-longtime readers have never heard of would be the absolute opposite of accessible.

Casual readers are gonna care more about the stuff they've already come around for. The game stuff. The characters that everyone already knows about. Not King Acorn and Ixis Naugus. They'll see that and go "huh, wonder what that means" and if they care for the answer they'll go online and search for it and see if these are characters they want to get more into.

That's the exact purpose of a "tease".

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Just now, Razorsaw said:

It's a small nod to something we already know about from flashbacks. That's all it's there for. We don't need anything more from it, and in fact, a long storyarc about a character non-longtime readers have never heard of would be the absolute opposite of accessible.

But that would be the entire point of an origins storyline, which this should have been, to introduce these characters without baggage for new readers. This doesn't have to be a particular long story arc either. All that would've had to be done would be streamlining the story arc so it's focused on tying in one game, like Sonic 1, and then introducing these characters to new readers. You act like we'd have been focusing solely on Naugus for one story line when that's not what I said. What I said was making a story arc that ties into one of the classics, ties it to the comic world, and offering new readers the chance to be introduced to these characters, and their reasons for doing what they do. One arc that sets up the great war mixed in with the plot of Sonic 1, showing Naugus in the special zone, introducing him through some flashbacks, and showing him escaping from the zone when Sonic enters would've perfectly set up his role, and then showing him taking Max's form in order to trick Sonic and the FF into doing what he wants. 

You've never answered my question about how this can be a jumping on point for new readers when it has absolutely no ties to the current story, and refuses to re-introduce characters by showing their origins, and original meetings. This was a disgrace for the sheer fact they had the once in a lifetime excuse for doing a proper origins story that could work for both new fans and old fans because old fans has a basic outline thanks to the old universe, but are still unclear about a lot of the new details of the new universe, while new fans don't have to deal with baggage of the old universe, and can simply be introduced to these characters. What do we get instead? The same old shit we saw in Genesis, and the original games that came out in the 90s, while the only thing that even works as a point of origin for the comic's universe being something that only already existing fans would understand, and even then, wouldn't give a shit about because they're just reading Sonic 1-3 and CD for the third fucking time. 

So my point still stands, this story arc still fails hard as a jumping on point for new fans. This is absolutely anything but accessible because any ties it does have to the comic would only be understood by pre-existing fans, and as soon as this arc is over, they'll be jumping into the aftermath of an storyline that spanned four years, and they'll be wondering "what the fuck did i just miss, and why should i even read past this point when i don't know who half of these characters are, and what the story was".

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But it's not an Origins arc. It's about the anniversary. Not even of the comic, but of the stuff that defined the Sonic brand. That's the main event here.

A jumping on point isn't always about showing new plot hooks, either. It's about providing a basic introduction to things. It's keeping it simple. A single appearance that hints at Naugus isn't overpowering at all, it's just a tiny thing.

A tiny thing you're overinflating.

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Just now, Razorsaw said:

But it's not an Origins arc. It's about the anniversary. Not even of the comic, but of the stuff that defined the Sonic brand. That's the main event here.

The big selling point of this arc is that it takes place earlier in the comic's storyline. That it ties in the games to the comics. Except it doesn't do that, and what you've just said is basically this is a cash-in on the anniversary...which is exactly the thing you were trying to argue against in the first place by claiming that this was a jumping on point for new readers of the comic.

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... except all the promotion of these things, right down to the styling of the covers even, has been about throwbacks to the older games.

and the anniversary and the jumping on point thing are not mutually exclusive concepts. In fact, the anniversary thing helps the jumping on point idea by being stuff people recognize.

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3 minutes ago, Razorsaw said:

and the anniversary and the jumping on point thing are not mutually exclusive concepts. In fact, the anniversary thing helps the jumping on point idea by being stuff people recognize.

First off, no. Because if they jump into a story with a bunch of characters who they don't know, as well as a story that's literally the conclusion to one of the comic's biggest stories, they'll have no reason to stick around, which is the goal. They've not reintroduced the biggest majority of the comic cast, who is the biggest chunk of Sonic's supporting cast and motivations here that there's no point for them to stick around. If that's your entire argument, that "this has Sonic" in it, then any single issue of this comic can be considered a jumping on point, despite the fact it really isn't when new readers will be completely lost to the story, and half of the cast found inside. That also doesn't help your point that this supposedly isn't a cash-in.

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12 minutes ago, Razorsaw said:

... except all the promotion of these things, right down to the styling of the covers even, has been about throwbacks to the older games.

and the anniversary and the jumping on point thing are not mutually exclusive concepts. In fact, the anniversary thing helps the jumping on point idea by being stuff people recognize.

Yeah, but it doesn't work as a true jumping on point when none of it is relavent to the storyline that just ended.

It would be a true "jumping on" point if it was, say, GoaH and the next storyline carried on from where it left off.

What we have instead is like reading a heavily abridged version of the first Harry Potter book and then jumping ahead to book 5.

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I think you guys aren't giving today's readers enough credit, and you're projecting onto the book what you personally want rather than what would work for what Archie and Sega are both trying to do here.

And you know what, I will admit - it is a cash in, to a degree. Because the entire point of celebrating an anniversary is TO cash in on nostalgia. I don't think that;s necessarily a bad thing.

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Just now, Razorsaw said:

I think you guys aren't giving today's readers enough credit, and you're projecting onto the book what you personally want rather than what would work.

And you know what, I will admit - it is a cash in, to a degree. Because the entire point of celebrating an anniversary is TO cash in on nostalgia. I don't think that;s necessarily a bad thing.

How are we not giving today's readers enough credit? You don't decide to randomly begin watching The Walking Dead from Season 4 onwards. Why would you decide to jump onto a comic book and stick with it when it doesn't do enough to introduce you to it's world and characters. Readers have to pay their own money for this, so why on Earth would they keep with a story they won't understand because of the fact it's once again a conclusion to a four year story. There is a reason people always ask "I'm considering jumping into the comics, which arc would you recommend as a good jumping in point"? Arcs like Countdown to Chaos worked well because not only was it the start of the storyline, but it took time to properly reestablish the characters to new readers, which makes sense since this followed Worlds Collide when new readers would potentially be jumping into the comic. This does none of that, and that gives the readers no reason to stick with it. What if the next arc has Naugus as the villain? Why should new readers give a shit? They'll just be saying "who the hell is this, and why is he not Eggman?!".

And suddenly criticising a comic for being an obvious cash-in, not being an interesting story, and giving valid criticism and suggestions on how to make a proper origins story, I.E: Cutting it down to maybe a one game focus, and tying that into the comic world is projecting onto the comic? And how is it being a cash-in not a bad thing? How from a story telling perspective is it a good thing that we're just reading the exact same stories that we've seen since the 90s. It's the same way I'll complain about Worlds Unite being a cash-in, it didn't have a valid story to tell that was interesting, and a lot of it felt sub-par story telling wise, which is exactly how GoaH is feeling now. It doesn't provide anything new or interesting, so what reason is there at all just to have plain nostalgia shoveled into us? How is "Oh look, it's that thing I remember!" a valid story concept that's should be praised?

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I would assume that would be why the next arc in both books is focused on the Freedom Fighters and their backgrounds and what they plan to do with their lives.

"You saw the Sega characters now let's see what the stuff that makes our comic unique is about." The more familiar storylines and characters from the anniversary stuff introduces you to the style of the comic and the writing and then moves on to heavier stuff.

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Just now, Razorsaw said:

I would assume that would be why the next arc in both books is focused on the Freedom Fighters and their backgrounds and what they plan to do with their lives.

"You saw the Sega characters now let's see what the stuff that makes our comic unique is about." The more familiar storylines and characters from the anniversary stuff introduces you to the style of the comic and the writing and then moves on to heavier stuff.

Yeah, except that the storyline is going to specifically be about them discussing what they'll do after the shattered world crisis, and it's one issue from what's being said. That means that every member will only get a few pages and even that is very unlikely to go into their personalities, backstories, or connections to Sonic. You can't really use that as solid evidence for your point as you don't know what's going to be in it. All we know is it'll be the aftermath of the Shattered World Crisis, we don't know the extent of the envelopment of the Freedom Fighters themselves, and even if we do, it'll not go into any of the important detail that would be considered for a jumping in point like Countdown to Chaos is.

And it really doesn't when you still don't know a thing about the characters, or the world in general. You'll just be throwing them from one time period to another without any context or story. They'll just be left wondering "What the hell happened, why is the Modern designs here, why is Eggman leading wars with an army of Egg Bosses, what's a roboticizer, who's this creepy wizard?". All of this would've been solved if this was a proper storyline that explored some backstory, but instead, it's just Sonic 1, 2, 3 and CD. Uh, hooray. 

And you're assuming they'll stay after the storyline, which is unlikely, because without any interesting catches from the comic's universe, it'll be very unlikely that they'll be bothered after the nostalgia feeding is over, and they have to return to the actual new storyline with characters they don't know, a storyline they've missed, and more. 

One of the biggest issues with GoaH is it's placed in a very important place, and just completely wastes it. The thing is that it should've been a jumping on point, a buffer zone between the last huge arc, and the new arcs to come. But it fails in every aspect of being a jumping on point, and because it does nothing to try introduce new readers into the comic world that if they are new to the comic, they'll be totally unfamiliar to, and because of that, the second the nostalgia filled bullshit ends, they'll dump the comic again because it's a bunch of shit they don't understand, and have no reason to understand without a storyline to introduce them into the world.

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11 hours ago, Ryannumber1Santa said:

How are we not giving today's readers enough credit? You don't decide to randomly begin watching The Walking Dead from Season 4 onwards.

I literally did that and I can follow it just fine.

Also I guess one of the big reasons I don't really care if GOAH is "Boring" or a "Cash In" or doesn't show everything is because I just genuinely feel like there'll be a classic based book at some point. I mean supposedly Sega's going to try and push Classic as it's own brand anyway so I'm more than certain that'll happen. 

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Well, it's nice to try and get new readers in, but what about the old ones? Chances are that if one tries too hard to get new ones, they won't come, and the old ones leave since the product doesn't have anything for them to give. That's why "it's a good jumping point, don't speak badly about it" doesn't appeal to me as a universal every-time-right answer for this question.

And then again, I can see Sega want's to make it's cash-cow, you know, make some cash. We're pretty much reading an ad. The point why fans keep reading the ad is though the plot and character growth and the feeling there's a real story it's trying to tell us. So it isn't just an ad even when it's an ad.

And I get it why guys don't approve when it feels too much of just-an-ad. We're after all paying for reading this ad so it's not rude to ask to get something in return as long as it's civil enough.

I read this one in 10 minutes (not usual), which makes me feel (again) the story's being shorter than usual. Which I can get, there's not that many of speech-bubbles after all. I get it why GoaH is like it is and I can stand it as it is, but that doesn't need to mean I love it, and I don't.

_________

On ‎10‎.‎12‎.‎2016 at 10:34 PM, Ryannumber1Santa said:

I didn't even receive a copy. I was told that it wasn't recieved by their distributors despite me having gotten GoaH Part 1 by that point, and now having gotten Part 2. 

I got that "Editor's Variant" too. (If you guys don't mind some Finnish price tags (and trying to find a way to get one in wherever you live) normal cover versions might still be in here, in normal they distribute them in our local stores about 3 months after release, but since it's not guaranteed they get them, I get mine ordered.) Sorry to hear you didn't get yours. :unsure:

______

On ‎6‎.‎12‎.‎2016 at 10:01 PM, Arranos said:

Also, the tweets are causing some crazy stuff to happen to my side of the forums.

They're creating a gigantic space that's endlessly expanding downwards!!!

Does this happen to anyone else? Or is it just because of IE 11?

That problem I've actually brought up here,

 go and check it out if you still need help, will you? ^_^

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I don't think it's even accurate to call it a jumping on point, because it's really not an ideal place to start, what with it's isolated nature and comic events that won't get very much exploration further on due to SEGA's own stance on things. It's more like the comic book equivalent of a ratings trap, with the hopes that the momentum from that will increase purchases for future issues as happened with Worlds Collide. 

As of today, it seems that hasn't really worked; Sales for #288 in the direct market were 5,958, only about 450 up from #287. And #289 sold 5,768, so it's falling to pre-GoaH numbers already. I wonder if the Mega Drive one-shots sort of cannibalised the potential upswing GoaH could have gotten. 

For reference, Sonic Universe is barely keeping above the 5000 mark with 5,012. I would not be surprised if SU#93 got sub-5000.

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Hey, been seeing the banter about Genesis of a Hero and just wanted to throw in my two cents.

Basically, it is pretty much there for the sake of the anniversary, with a set of stories telling abridged versions of game plots that don't do much of anything outside of being one-shots. The argument that it doesn't do much from a comic perspective is one I agree with because of that and I'm actually considering not renewing my subscription until I see what the next issue/arc is gonna be. As far as I can tell, none of these stories have much to do with each other or potentially the next arc because their focusing on key moments toward the end of the 4 classic games, with only Part 1 showing the final boss's aftermath. So far, the only unifying element comic-wise is Dr. Snively and he isn't guaranteed to be in the next two issues.

In fact, Snively himself is part of the basis of my support that this arc does little to nothing to hook in comic readers old or new. These stories show him acting as Eggman's assistant(and stunt double), fighting Sonic alongside (or in the second part, in place of ) him. For comic fans, this is a nod to the fact that the two worked together for a time; for game fans, it shows Eggman with a non-robotic underling that makes them question why he took Eggman's place in the Wing Fortress. If they were to follow the comic from this arc, his presence would be pointless because he doesn't work for Eggman anymore in the present timeline but rather for GUN, which means he likely would be showing up anytime soon (assuming he doesn't show up in either within the next few issues of Sonic or the Freedom Fighter Universe Arc).

Naugus is another example that I've seen you guys toss around to prove your points and here's the odd thing: I didn't even realize he was in the first part. For some reason, I just assumed that the king was being a downplayed protective dad who wasn't too fond of Sonic yet, though his expression when he left did make me raise an eyebrow. It was visiting here immediately afterwards that I noticed the weirdly drawn shadow he was casting was supposed to look like Walter. Again, unless he shows up within the next few issues alongside Julian, his technical appearance here is something only comic fans would know something about. And unlike Snively, we never actually see Naugus himself, so unless the game fans flip back to either the fan art or the Universe ad to look at the very small renders of the covers and somehow puts two-and-two together, it's just a ominous hint towards something they are unlikely to get the 411 on.

Now with that said, King Acorn and the freedom fighters showing up towards the end of the first part did briefly make me think this was gonna tie in to the comic proper somehow. The Freedom Fighters' younger forms(except Rotor's) do resemble their present designs enough that the numerous ads for the main book could attract some attention, especially Bunnie. The fact that the next story-arc/single-issue-story features them going out on different quests that presumably sets up their Universe arc means their presence has some short-term relevance. However, the King himself teeters between raising eyebrows(though not for entirely right reasons) and confusing new readers in that while he is clearly the king of the Island(s) and says that Sonic saved him from the Special Zone, his skeevy small mannerisms also asks people to be curious for suspicious reasons and question "Why is the Squirrel King acting so distant towards his daughter?" And this, from a outsider-looking-in's perspective, would technically drive them to search for stories featuring him if their really interested and the first thing they're likely to go by is the cover. This in turn would lead them to Panic in the Sky Part 1, which features the king on the cover and has him going up against "Fang", Bean, and Bark personally to defend his vault for the Freedom Fighters, which while a great issue to show that he is a good guy, it doesn't explain the shadiness from GoaH. What makes this ambiguous is that this issue is so continuity heavy due to being the beginning of the end of the Shattered World Crisis storyline, that they would either be alienated due to having no idea what half of the material or be encouraged to seek out the previous issues to learn who Phage/Wendy/Witchcarters/the BBA/etc. is and see how the comic adapts Sonic Unleashed. So...mixed results?

And as a whole, this arc is barely an arc, much less four cohesive stories; its just select iconic moments from the games with dialogue, goofy moments, and characters from SatAM. As I said in a previous post, Genesis of a Hero is those flashbacks we got during Champions and Eggman's Dozen with things most people actually know about, with a non-game character or two, and nothing else. The best this arc can claim as to being cohesive is the fact that the beginning of the following issues is tangentially connected to the ending of the previous issue and even that's banking on if Part 3 somehow ends with a nod to Angel Island, Hidden Palace Zone, or a something resembling a rivalry or disconnect.

 

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28 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

Snively should be a likely candidate for part 4 at least; the comic has already basically told us that he was involved with the events of S3&K.

Oh, that's right! So maybe he'll make a cameo getting in the Eggrobo armor.

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