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20 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

I refuse to respect any opinion which I think is complete nonsense.

I don't even know how to dignify this with a response. Because wow. Just wow.

20 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

I'll refrain from calling you the single most cowardly individual in this whole community.

And this quote is a good example of why I don't come to the staff for problems in the first place. If you want me to debate with things here, then calling me a coward will not help.

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You got a problem with me then debate it with me here instead of running off to twitter and rallying whoever is up to listen to you.

Well, seeing how every debate I try to have gets cut off by staff, even if it was civil and on-topic, and you get told off for doing even the smallest things, it's no surprise that people would turn to other places like social media to debate instead. I don't even have an issue with anyone on the staff. But if it makes me "cowardly" because I don't feel I can properly debate on here in the first place, then that's your problem, not mine.

11 minutes ago, Kokonoe said:

All of those assumptions about me and my motivations, and he does this.

I explained why I felt the way I did, it's not an assumption, it's an interpretation. There's a difference. I'm not a mind reader.

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Calm down guys. We're all fans at the end of the day just varying levels

I agree, but unfortunately people here just like to get so angry for some reason. No matter what I do. I've done nothing wrong but try to be understanding. I'm not even mad. Just don't get all the hostility.

 

(For some reason the forum posted this as a new post, when I was editing my previous one. My bad either way, but the new replies that came about while I was editing my post seemed to mess something up. lol)

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25 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

And this quote is a good example of why I don't come to the staff for problems in the first place. If you want me to debate with things here, then calling me a coward will not help

You screen grabbed my post, then proceeded to post a rather sly comment about me, and by the looks of it, it was also aimed at an undisclosed number of other people in the fanbase that you appear to look down on.

That's why you look cowardly, because you ran off to throw insults at people at another outlet and then posted 'I don't know how to reply'.

Edit: In fact you're still doing it now, as I type this you're posting more tweets, are you going to comment on every post someone makes who disagrees with you?

Do I even need to point out the irony that you did this whilst saying that you should respect people when their opinions are different to your own?

Anyway, not gonna continue a bloody opinion respecting argument in an Archie comics topic. But maybe if you do have a problem with what someone has said, you should try talking to them about it instead of going to twitter to belittle them?

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4 minutes ago, SSF1991 said:

 

And this quote is a good example of why I don't come to the staff for problems in the first place. If you want me to debate with things here, then calling me a coward will not help.

Well, seeing how every debate I try to have gets cut off by staff, even if it was civil and on-topic, and you get told off for doing even the smallest things, it's no surprise that people would turn to other places like social media to debate instead. I don't even have an issue with anyone on the staff. But if it makes me "cowardly" because I don't feel I can properly debate on here in the first place, then that's your problem, not mine.

 

He's not wrong though. That was an exceptionally childish move and a really poor form on your part. That's the kind of stuff that would get you into some "trouble" offline, if you catch my drift. Really disappointed in you there man.

 

As for the topic at hand I hope it doesn't come to pass. A real shame to see long runners fade and not even get a grand finale

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9 minutes ago, Aquaslash said:

He's not wrong though. That was an exceptionally childish move and a really poor form on your part. That's the kind of stuff that would get you into some "trouble" offline, if you catch my drift. Really disappointed in you there man.

I censored the post as much I could. It only contains my quote (for context) and what he said. That's literally it. Two lines of text. I don't know what more I can do to express myself if I don't feel I can express myself here. And the last thing I want to do is let it bottle up.

Just really tired of seeing childish behavior get a pass, but the moment I do something that's even the slightest bit questionable, and everyone throws a fit.

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Edit: In fact you're still doing it now, are you going to comment on every post someone makes who disagrees with you?

...So now when I reply here, instead of there, I'm still in the wrong? You literally just suggested I debate things here. And now when I do, I'm doing it too much. And this is more than simply "disagreeing with me". Honestly, that's what I thought this debate started as in the first place. I just saw it as a mere disagreement and nothing more. But it blew up into more than that.

What do you want from me?

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I have not been here in forever :P

Calm down everyone lets get back to the topic at hand -figuringouthowtoforceArchietonotcancel-

Lets get a hypothetical discussion going while we await official news, what kind of story lines would everyone like to see with a possibly revised licence agreement if this ends up being the case? By this I obviously mean, things that were previously mandated no longer being so, or vice versa, new things being off limits.  Or you know how we can get Puyo rep'd in comics now that we're finally get an English game and I'm toootttalllllyyyyy not biased *hidesprofile*

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My main question in all this is: if the Archie comics are in fact cancelled, will there be a dedicated, unified fan project to continue them, as happened with StC?

There are actually two continuations to Sonic the Comic (the more famous StC-O and the lesser known Sonic the Continuation), while there's already an Archie continuation for the pre-reboot Archie timeline. Might we end up with 4 fan continuations, ending up with a timeline split on par with the 90s when we had several different animated continuities?

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Just now, Noelgilvie said:

My main question in all this is: if the Archie comics are in fact cancelled, will there be a dedicated, unified fan project to continue them, as happened with StC?

There are actually two continuations to Sonic the Comic (the more famous StC-O and the lesser known Sonic the Continuation), while there's already an Archie continuation for the pre-reboot Archie timeline. Might we end up with 4 fan continuations, ending up with a timeline split on par with the 90s when we had several different animated continuities?

There is one called Archie Sonic Online, which is continuing the Pre-252 storyline. I could imagine the Post-252 getting a similar treatment however.

There's currently two issues of Mobius Legends.

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34 minutes ago, AmitieAkiera said:

I have not been here in forever :P

Calm down everyone lets get back to the topic at hand -figuringouthowtoforceArchietonotcancel-

Lets get a hypothetical discussion going while we await official news, what kind of story lines would everyone like to see with a possibly revised licence agreement if this ends up being the case? By this I obviously mean, things that were previously mandated no longer being so, or vice versa, new things being off limits.  Or you know how we can get Puyo rep'd in comics now that we're finally get an English game and I'm toootttalllllyyyyy not biased *hidesprofile*

Man, I really just want us to keep most of the cast. That is the bare minimum -- the Egg Bosses especially, as well as the Freedom Fighters (with Big sticking around--yes, I mean that!), and characters that are scrapped in the games but continue to have an impact here like Fang, Bark, Bean, Honey, and ect. I won't lie and say that I'm not going to be that heartbroken over the ones I'm neutral about like Eclipse and Razor, but I don't think they're not deserving to come along, and more power to whatever picks them up and keeps them around too.

We can start the entire story over back at Sonic 1 for all I care and redo the weaker areas of the comic, I just don't want to risk losing most of the major characters again, not only out of nostalgia, but because they help give the setting a much bigger scale and variety than if we went without them, and also show that their old, dated, and cringy characterizations of the past can be improved and done well with good writing. Part of why a lot of us even flocked to the comics was because it gave many of us the characters (both old and new) that we've come to love all in one setting instead of separately and in a consistent world--we would never have have considered Bunnie interacting with Blaze, Sally speaking to Rouge, Knuckles and Shadow actually duking it out, Amy and Knuckles teaming up with Team Dark, or Eggman having a actual goddamned EMPIRE that has living breathing people willing to work for him instead of the heroes for multiple reasons. One could really make a whole list on the characters alone given that the world's settings aren't exactly at risk.

The only other thing that comes to mind that I'd like to see in a revised licence agreement is most of the less loyal Egg Bosses showing more loyalty to Eggman rather than hatred (I say most because I kinda like the thought of the BattleLord betraying Eggman in the future to go his own way). But other than that, the comics always seem to have a hand out that said "Everyone is welcome here no matter where you're from" be they the characters of the many parts of the franchise* or their fans, and even amidst changes to them that some might find awkward that welcoming feel has been one of the reasons I've held it higher than the games in many ways. So to see that get trashed for something that excludes all that except a small group of this is just a massive spit in the face.

*So long as SEGA allows it that is.

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6 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Man, I really just want us to keep most of the cast. That is the bare minimum -- the Egg Bosses especially, as well as the Freedom Fighters (with Big sticking around--yes, I mean that!), and characters that are scrapped in the games but continue to have an impact here like Fang, Bark, Bean, Honey, and ect. I won't lie and say that I'm not going to be that heartbroken over the ones I'm neutral about like Eclipse and Razor, but I don't think they're not deserving to come along, and more power to whatever picks them up and keeps them around too.

100% Agree I love the Egg Bosses and we have NOT seen enough of them I REALLY want to see more of Abyss and Maw in particular but really all of them are pretty great, only one I would change a bit is Mordred, since his namesake should (IMO) give off a much more imposing, and malicious vibe again just my opinion though.

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Just now, AmitieAkiera said:

100% Agree I love the Egg Bosses and we have NOT seen enough of them I REALLY want to see more of Abyss and Maw in particular but really all of them are pretty great, only one I would change a bit is Mordred, since his namesake should (IMO) give off a much more imposing, and malicious vibe again just my opinion though.

Yeah, I really liked the more active Mordred Hood in the Pre-Reboot than the current one that seems more cowardly. But we can't have everyone be brave, I suppose.

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I fully believe that the comic should have restarted from Sonic 1, issue 1, and reintroduced every character and villain organically, right from the beginning. If we can get that from a new publisher, that'd be nice and accessible for people just starting.

But I think we may be jumping the gun here given that two people from the same source are giving opposite information. I'm still not sure if this thing is actually cancelled or not.

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I hope all this is just a misinterpretation or overinterpretation. I've been reading this for years now and it would be sad if they would cancel it now, however Sonic disappearing from their subscriptions webpage is not a sign of just hiatus for me.. I'm too old for this kind of news..

I don't understand one thing - how come #290 would be the last one? I have this issue in my hand now, so uhhh...

 

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2 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

I fully believe that the comic should have restarted from Sonic 1, issue 1, and reintroduced every character and villain organically, right from the beginning.

Which wouldn't have been a bad idea if you're looking at it in hindsight, but at the time doing that might have cause a bigger fire that I think was one they wanted to avoid. People get upset with the "Faded Memories" thing that was done by the editor, but I always felt that helped those who were willing to stick around get into the new verse much more smoothly and gradually accept it than being sudden about it as restarting from the beginning might have done.

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Just now, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Which wouldn't have been a bad idea if you're looking at it in hindsight, but at the time doing that might have cause a bigger fire. People get upset with the "Faded Memories" thing that was done by the editor, but I always felt that helped those who were willing to stick around get into the new verse much more smoothly and gradually accept it than being sudden about it as restarting from the beginning might have done.

Fair. But I can't identify with that feeling because I didn't start reading the comics until we were partway into World's Unite. So I dunno what to tell you.

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I have just caught up with some of the pages of discussion and the question of 'IDW' has been brought up a few times. 

Everything I'm about to type is hypothetical and most of it is from my own research, but given the number of articles about various Sonic licenses I'd like to think this is somewhat accurate.

=================

In the past, various third party companies who do business with Sega have hinted that when it comes to Sonic, there are lots of different licenses, some of these are tied to regions, others are global, the wider and more popular the license the more money is involved.

Here are a number of licenses which I know for certain exist because companies have confirmed it, via reps and their social media accounts.

  • 2" figures.
  • 5" figures.
  • Statue + worldwide distribution (this isn't the actual name of it, but its something like that because remember when First4Figures originally had their metal Sonic statue as a US/Canada exclusive, the reason they gave was a licensing issue, they sorted that out about a month later and it went on global release).
  • Construction toys

First4Figures used to have the license for both 2" figures and I think the 5" ones they released a bunch too and hinted that they would be doing more, when suddenly they stopped. Years later when they opened their Facebook pages, many people asked about these and they out rightly said "We don't have it anymore, Jazwares has it" 

Meccano used to have the construction toys license, and they had it for a while but never used it, they were originally to have a bunch of other toys out but never released them... It presumably then went to pixel bricks or lego or the license was radically adapted so both companies could make 'construction toys'.

The interesting one is the 2" and 5" figures because we can actually trace this license.

This was originally with F4F who produced these.

First-4-Figures-Mini-Figures.jpgDSCF0304.jpg

Notice how they say series 1 on the larger figures. 

The smaller ones got to series 2 then stopped.

What happened, well according to F4F, Jazwares got the license, this was back when Jazwares were making everything, figures, plushies, electronics, back when Jazwares had the title 'master toy partner'.

Now, Jazwares ended up bringing out this... 

http://www.entertainmentearth.com/prodinfo.asp?number=JZ65716

Look familiar? Yup, it's the exact same figures, but in Jazwares packaging.

Now Jazwares would go on to release their own brand of 2" figures, they came out in 2011 around the time of Sonic Generations.

Then at some point late 2013, Jazwares lost the toy license, completely, now Tomy has it.

 

So what does all this have to do with Archie? Well... it's my belief, that there is also a 'comics' license, and previously, this was a regional thing, hence why Fleetway did comics and so did Archie as well as the odd random EU comics/books. Now Fleetway cancelled Sonic due to poor sales and bad management of the comic, Archie however kept it going.

But this whole time, they would have had to held meetings with Sega to renew the license, there is no way they have gone on from 1999 - present day without having to do this several times. I would even guess that they had to pitch for and obtain a license to make comics for Boom and Sonic X.

 

So based on this, I would guess that Archie for the best part of nearly 2 decades has been the only company, or the winner of the licensing bids.

 

So lets assume that the rumour is true, and Archie is indeed going to cancel the comic, there are three reasons as to why I can think of.

 

First though, lets turn to Sega, there have been rumours about Sega tightening control on Sonic, this has been evidenced by rumour as well as those style guides and the fact that some companies who used to have a specific 'style' for how they presented Sonic on their goods have now conformed to Sega's rules (see F4F Tornado statue compared to all their previous statues).

Now look at what characters they encourage clients to use, Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman and sometimes Amy.

Now look at Archie... after the Penders Lawsuit. 

It doesn't fit... it really doesn't, even with the redesigns, it's so radically different to the image Sega is trying to present. 

The MegaDrive series certainly does, but the main comic? Sadly it doesn't.

 

Theory 1: Sega has pulled the plug due to recent events and because they want more control over the presentation of Sonic (I'll let you debate which branch of Sega did this but we all know which one most likely did it if this was the case). The license is now floating.

Theory 2: Another company had a better pitch... Kinda combines a tad with the first theory but think about it. Say you were trying to control your brand, your most important IP, you make a bit of money with one company, but another comes along and makes you a just as good offer but also says they'll follow your new rules... that's a very hard offer to resist. 

Or another company simple put in a higher bid. IDW could certainly do it, Image comics probably could as well given Archies problems of late.

Theory 3: Archie just don't wanna continue it. I would be surprised if this is the reason because Archie would not only be throwing away a huge earner, but also throwing away a huge market for them compared to their other popular brands.

 

Now assuming theory 2 is right, that means the comic license is with another company and you'll see a new Sonic comic, but you won't see your Archie characters anymore.

But Theory 1 & 3, this would mean that Sega has the Sonic Comic license up for grabs, and that is quite a license, longest running video-game comic, aimed primarily at kids but popular with Teens and adults.

Think about that from Sega's view for a moment, name me another videogame comic that has ran anywhere near as long as Sonic, I can't think of any, by all rights, the Sonic comics should have died years ago (this isn't a bash at Archie), no other videogame character in history has had a secondary media as huge as this apart from Pokemon, that is utterly insane, it's gotta be worth a lot, so if the license isn't owned at the moment, you can bet Sega will be looking for someone to buy it.

 

 

But yeah... that is if it's true.

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Well I don't think anyone here has attachment to Archie as a company, they're kind of insufferably incompetent. It's mostly to the stories and characters (read: the stories and characters introduced by Flynn. How fucking many remember "Fly Fly Freddy" or "Catweazle"?).

I have one problem with this hypothetical-maybe-not-hypothetical "pick up where we left off under a publisher that fucking does its job" idea, and that's can they refer to pay issues and stories if reading them warrants buying books the publisher doesn't own? This is something I have little knowledge in so forgive me if they're actually totally within their rights to do that and I'm just being stupid

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10 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Well I don't think anyone here has attachment to Archie as a company, they're kind of insufferably incompetent. It's mostly to the stories and characters (read: the stories and characters introduced by Flynn. How fucking many remember "Fly Fly Freddy" or "Catweazle"?).

I have one problem with this hypothetical-maybe-not-hypothetical "pick up where we left off under a publisher that fucking does its job" idea, and that's can they refer to pay issues and stories if reading them warrants buying books the publisher doesn't own? This is something I have little knowledge in so forgive me if they're actually totally within their rights to do that and I'm just being stupid

All the stories Archie makes are property of SEGA, made on SEGA's behalf. If the license where to change hands, then the company that receives said license would have the right to reprint the stories regardless of which company made them first. Thus, if they wanted to, they COULD in fact continue where things left off and reprint the past stories without any problem. By that same right, they could just as easily ditch everything and start wholly anew. In the end though, it would be the new company's decision, provided that they get SEGA approval.  

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3 minutes ago, horridus said:

Thus, if they wanted to, they COULD in fact continue where things left off and reprint the past stories without any problem. 

I don't think Mr Fulop would agree to that :> Probably depends on what do you mean by saying "past stories".

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2 minutes ago, aquaz said:

I don't think Mr Fulop would agree to that :> Probably depends on what do you mean by saying "past stories".

"Past Stories" in this case referring exclusively to the earlier stories of the Post-Reboot continuity. In theory a new company could negotiate with past creators such as Fulop or Penders or Bollers, but given that SEGA refuses to actively acknowledge those copyrights and the sheer number of people that would need to be tracked down (Writers, inkers, colorists, pencillers, letterers, etc-), in all likelihood the Pre-Reboot continuity and its stories would be shut down for good and more attention paid to the current continuity, given that it would be easier to manage and is more immediately relevant to the current fanbase and readership. 

This is all assuming, of course, they wouldn't simply start from scratch and just toss all of it out. 

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Okay neat.

I'd still rather we start from issue 1, readapt each game chronologically and organically introduce post-reboot characters and elements along the way organically, though.

Or like, a graphic novel for each major game (or a couple of games, depending on the length of each) that acts as a prequel series to 252 and the main story (even if that would mean countdown to chaos features characters remembering things we didn't see happen).

1 minute ago, aquaz said:

I don't think Mr Fulop would agree to that :> Probably depends on what do you mean by saying "past stories".

Stuff from 252 onward, most likely. That's all that's really canon anymore.

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