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4 hours ago, Borvoc said:

I wouldn't mind a book or plot line that focuses on Team Dark as GUN agents.

 

So I guess the short version is: I wouldn't mind a book about team dark and Gun. But as long as shadow was around, it would only really be about shadow. 

There was a longer explanation here I can put back if you wanna see it. But yeah, the only way to get a book/story about team dark or gun, is to separate shadow from it and then make a story someplace else. 

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Aw, man. I saw your longer post but didn't get to read it. I should have analyzed your explanation while I had the chance.

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13 minutes ago, Borvoc said:

Aw, man. I saw your longer post but didn't get to read it. I should have analyzed your explanation while I had the chance.

I can rewrite it ( shorter, because I'm a weirdo who goes back and edits his posts to be more succinct because i'm weird about that ) if you would like. 

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Whatever you feel like, @Shadowlax. I don't understand why a story couldn't be about Team Dark and GUN and not focus on Rouge or Omega at certain points. Obviously, Shadow is the leader of Team Dark and would therefore be given the most focus, but I don't see why the other characters couldn't get their own little arcs in this sort of scenario.

The one things I do understand is that it could potentially be difficult to make a spy thriller when there's so little political intrigue in the comic to work with. I'm sure they could make it work, though. Create some sort of mystery with the Black Arms or something, but it feels like something's still missing that would be needed for a spy-type story.

For the record, I also edit my posts a lot. Probably more than I should. By tomorrow, this post will be about Pepsi and aspartame.

Edit: I guess there are always Egg Bosses and Eggman forces to spy on and have intrigue with, so I guess there's really no problem here. I got my heist with Eggman's Dozen; now give me my Team Dark spy thriller! A Team Dark heist wouldn't be bad either.

Edit 2: And now I'm reminded of how I want an Eggman's Dozen trade paperback on my shelf.

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11 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

So I guess the short version is: I wouldn't mind a book about team dark and Gun. But as long as shadow was around, it would only really be about shadow. 

There was a longer explanation here I can put back if you wanna see it. But yeah, the only way to get a book/story about team dark or gun, is to separate shadow from it and then make a story someplace else. 

Man you are really pessimistic. It could be like how not every Sonic issues has to be 100% focused on Sonic.

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3 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Man you are really pessimistic. It could be like how not every Sonic issues has to be 100% focused on Sonic.

Yeah because Tails and Amy are there. And they are the apart of the crew people care about the most. The FF admitted by the writer, aren't the reason why folks are there, and need sonic or someone  interesting around to justify writing stories about them. And even then, them being not that interesting and nothing is one of the main complaints I see about the reboot, so I don't think my fears are unfounded. But I'll go more indepth below. 

3 hours ago, Borvoc said:

Whatever you feel like, @Shadowlax. I don't understand why a story couldn't be about Team Dark and GUN and not focus on Rouge or Omega at certain points.

Oh it could, there's a chance people not care. Ian could write a whole arc right now where sonic is barley featured and its about sally. But it probably wouldn't sell and justify the artist and writers writing that book. And that's the problem, they could, but like.... no one cares. 

To go back into a bit of my longer comment. Shadow has a bunch of institutions around the character, where a lot of people don't really care about them, besides their relation to shadow. Why do you care about team dark? Shadow. Why do you care about GUN? Shadow. Why do you care about the black Arms? Shadow. And Shadow can exist outside of these elements and be Incorporated into other stories because he's super popular and people will go out and see him. 

This got a bit long in the tooth, some i'm going to try an edit it down.

The concept of team dark is a flawed concept and built around a different concept, than all the other teams in sonic. All the other teams in sonic, usually are complimentary. They have abilities that serve each other and allow them to get through each challenge. usually separated in speed power and flight. But there are other abilities like tails's intelligence and Espio's ninjistu,  knuckles's occasional bouts in mysticism . Shadow doesn't need that, Shadow has on multiple occasions , heck in SA 2 actually stealths onto prison island better than rouge. Because he can teleport. All notion of espionage is eliminated with the ability to teleport and a cool composure. And he doesn't need power, because shadow is notably super strong. And Can throw hands with knuckles. Omega is glorified back up fire. Shadow could just do everything by himself, and it benifits gun, because if he dies " welp we don't have to deal with that mess" its like suicide squad but with one guy, who's immortal and could do DIO shit. 

So ok, maybe they aren't a perfect team, in terms of comp. They wouldn't win an Overwatch match together. But they provide emotional support right? Eh.... not really. Even in the games, the emotional support rouge provides is minimal, And shadow does more for omega in hat regard than he does himself. And in the comics... they've yet to actually use that in any meaningful way around shadow's character whatsoever. So they as of currently provide very poor questionable emotional support that doesn't really justify a team. And its so limited, that it could just be substituted with long rage radio feed conversations and it would function the same.

So to get to my point. The other teams in sonic are there to provide interesting things to each other. Team Dark exists to push shadow. That's it. They are back up dancers, glorified. And the comic does not hide that notion, the other two members of team dark aren't even shadow's league. This was apparent with eclipse. They are the jobbers that the One interesting wrestler hangs out with, because that's his squad. Rouge is Doph Ziggler. 

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Obviously, Shadow is the leader of Team Dark and would therefore be given the most focus, but I don't see why the other characters couldn't get their own little arcs in this sort of scenario.

Oh they could, if shadow isn't there. So I went through that explanation , the solution is to just remove shadow. Whether it be by , presumed death, pink slip, Gun betraying him, left over shadow robot framing. Trapped in an alternate reality. Whatever, shadow needs to go. 

To reference wrestling again, that's what happened. When Randy Orton, and Batista were ready to be real boys instead of HHH's lackies, they left. Well they beat him up first and took his belt, but they left. They left that team, meant to push 1 guy. And that's how you solve that problem, and have stories about them, you remove shadow from the team. He can visit, from time to time. Come through like a cool uncle with gifts, but he can't be actively around or a factor in any narrative about the other two members of team dark. Because that team isn't meant to serve each other, its meant to make shadow look good. 

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The one things I do understand is that it could potentially be difficult to make a spy thriller when there's so little political intrigue in the comic to work with. I'm sure they could make it work, though. Create some sort of mystery with the Black Arms or something, but it feels like something's still missing that would be needed for a spy-type story.

I think that's possible, but it would require more realistate. One type of story I had in mind is , shadow is betrayed by gun, framed but this time framed in such a way in which it plays up peoples unease about shadow. While I never liked knuckles and shadow's beef in the comic, it existed because knuckles wasn't familiar with him. Most of the world isn't familiar with shadow, and a lot view him as a menace. Even after saving the world, there could be a situation that plays with that unease, and frames shadow.  

Shadow goes on the run, removing him from the picture. And he's gone, and now the stories are about trying to solve that myster, and maybe forces in gun ( sniveler trying to bid for far more corrupt power that he originally intended)

The issue is, I feel like you would have to dedicate realisiate to that, like you would need multiple stories with other non team dark characters dealing with guns increasing shadyness in that scenario . 

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For the record, I also edit my posts a lot. Probably more than I should. By tomorrow, this post will be about Pepsi and aspartame.

Edit: I guess there are always Egg Bosses and Eggman forces to spy on and have intrigue with, so I guess there's really no problem here. I got my heist with Eggman's Dozen; now give me my Team Dark spy thriller! A Team Dark heist wouldn't be bad either.

I don't think shadow will ever meet the eggbosses and eggman in the book if it continues. Shadow kind of ruins that narrative.

The eggboss main sonic narrative, kind of relies on pretending shadow doesn't exist for a few reasons I could explain, but this post is already long. 

 

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Any news on the email? Seeing that only two of the staff have left (that we know of), I don't think it's a straight up cancellation, yet... 

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3 minutes ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

Any news on the email? Seeing that only two of the staff have left (that we know of), I don't think it's a straight up cancellation, yet... 

Who left?

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@Shadowlax That's a very detailed opinion (take that as a compliment). I still don't think that Sadow is as OP as you seem to indicate, and even if he is, it's just a matter of a good writer fixing that. Regarding the Team Dark team dynamic, I think Sonic '06 established that Omega could defeat shadow, at least under certain circumstances and that Rouge cares for Shadow and is willing to support him, whether or not she'll admit to that under normal circumstances.

Omega is a calculating hothead (new heat sink, anyone?), Shadow is a bit of a hothead too, but less so than Omega. He has a more developed, rigid moral code. Rouge is the most laid back of the three, but probably also the most clever. Shadow can rely on Rouge's spy skills and her cool head when he needs it. She's also less likely to get caught up in a certain way of seeing things, as Shadow and Omega could be. He can also rely on Omega for sheer firepower, loyalty, and tenacity. Omega can probably also take the most hits of anyone on the team and then just get repaired and/or rebuilt as needed.

So, again, I think with a good writer and with Sega allowing it, there are good stories that could be told here.

Edit: Feel free to disagree. I'm just talking here.

52 minutes ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

Any news on the email? Seeing that only two of the staff have left (that we know of), I don't think it's a straight up cancellation, yet... 

46 minutes ago, Operationgamer17 said:

They didn't actually leave. They were freelancers. They didn't actually work at Archie.

If I remember correctly, aren't they just looking for other projects? That doesn't mean they can't keep doing the Sonic book if/when it comes back. Being a freelancer usually means you can take as many projects at a time as you can handle, since you're not tied to a desk for a specific, singular employer from eight to five, so I think this really only confirms that there's a hiatus/delay, which we already knew.

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Ah, OK. I understand. I guess no-one has any updates as yet? That said, there are still a few hours left of the working week in the US...

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Then again, the news that there would be an update this week did come from an unreliable source (someone saying he called Archie and the rep told him so), but it would be nice if it's true. ^_^;

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You know, if they really are going to tell us anything, it would be amazing if it got passed their legal department or lawyers at this point. I know where I work any formal email or letter that is sent out to clients and such has to be approved by our legal department.

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The fact that neither Archie or Sega has released a statement to this point would have me believe that nothing's locked in one way or the other just yet.

I don't know who the source was for that rumor about an email going out but until we hear something directly from either company, it's Schrödinger's Sonic.

Once something is decided either way, they'll be able to talk about it but not before that.

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I choose to believe that Schrodinger's Big has found a way to fish inside the box while he waits.

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11 hours ago, Borvoc said:

Whatever you feel like, @Shadowlax. I don't understand why a story couldn't be about Team Dark and GUN and not focus on Rouge or Omega at certain points. Obviously, Shadow is the leader of Team Dark and would therefore be given the most focus, but I don't see why the other characters couldn't get their own little arcs in this sort of scenario.

Wait, is Shadow the leader? I know he kind of acts as the forward for the team, being the fastest, but I thought Rouge was the one usually in charge?

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1 hour ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

Wait, is Shadow the leader? I know he kind of acts as the forward for the team, being the fastest, but I thought Rouge was the one usually in charge?

It's more like Rouge is Shadow's handler. Someone like Shadow, with a strong will and a personal grudge against the military, would never follow the regular chain of command. Rouge's job is basically to liaise with GUN and point Shadow in the right direction - namely towards GUN's enemies.

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The Archie version of Shadow reminds me of John Reese from Person of Interest. Just the right mix of grumpy and dry humour. 

That would make Rouge the equivalent of Root. Not sure about Omega. 

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23 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Yeah because Tails and Amy are there. And they are the apart of the crew people care about the most. The FF admitted by the writer, aren't the reason why folks are there, and need sonic or someone  interesting around to justify writing stories about them. And even then, them being not that interesting and nothing is one of the main complaints I see about the reboot, so I don't think my fears are unfounded. But I'll go more indepth below. 

Well, to be exact, Mr. Flynn has stated (at least on the BumbleKast) that the reason why people start to read Sonic comics is there's the game cast, but the reason they'll stick around is the other characters. Sonic's (as well as the other game cast) needed to reel people in for the most part. I can tell that's the real deal by experience, at least in some cases. 

And then Mr. Crouse said he came for Bunnie.

So maybe you're talking about someone other than Mr. Flynn then?

*rant starts*

And sorry if I sound rude since I don't really mean it, but I feel like this kind of attitude is most likely going to make things worse for those who like FF's and such IF by some thing the publisher changes. Because if messages toned like this are the only ones, it doesn't really matter what other people think; even if they'd have a chance to bring FF's and others with the license, would they do it if the message they got is "meh, whatever" at best? No, they're not since they deduce it isn't worth the effort, they could be making "the glorified add" into just an add, because of/not because of Sega. And I don't like that idea since it brings the reality of "Baldy McNosehair/I'm gonna need shower/derp" comics here, at least if the games are still keeping that tone. And I'm not too content with that idea. Yes, I aknowledge there's quite a big of a possibility here that won't be the case, that even with just the game cast there can be more story-driven comics than that but still. I'm going to be selfish right here and say I want to keep the FF and the other (than the game cast) characters in the comics too, even if it doesn't matter a bit what I want and what I need. Sega's "got it aaaaaaaaaaaaall". And the TV's "stuff don't appeal to me" anymore like it used to... So yes, I care, even if it doesn't count for anything. I don't have the money, I don't have the contacts. All I have is such a loud voice I can start screaming like a wailing siren but that's no good when it comes to stuff like this. Murr.

Sorry, I needed to get that out of my system since May Day marches aren't my thing. Too much drunk students and agitated leftwingers out there, though I think their numbers are reduced by this snow if it keeps snowing on May 1st too.

*rant ends*

And I find it quite funny how I find myself starting to hate things I didn't have any problems before or even liked until some group/persistent person starts to rub it on my face 24/7 in some kind of... I dunno, very pressuring(?) way. I can't get it but somehow I just start to feel like that very easily. Just came to my mind, maybe I could just skim rather than read every word when it comes to the opinions. At least forums are easier to skim trough than actual conversations.

Since it would be just rude to try and stop others talking about their opinions while I would still keep on babbling about mine.

I was so excited for that FF SU arc, it would've been interesting to see it. I miss those guys a lot. I just wanna get my comic book into my hands and smile like a maniac on my way back home all the way. Man those were the days... I miss that "butterknife"-wielding coyote too much, like the others as well. Almost as much. It's about 10-or-so percent difference or something I think. I miss them all.

16 hours ago, Borvoc said:

I choose to believe that Schrodinger's Big has found a way to fish inside the box while he waits.

So the only thing we can guess is whether or not he's found Froggy already? Should we try and collapse the thing to see whether or not it's possible? On the second thought, I'm not going to calculate that one, you're on your own if you're interested.

...

So, well... if this ends horribly and Forces fails for me, I'm going to stick to the fan things for a long time.

... why it's snowing around here yet again? Usually at this time of the year Sun is seen and air is warmer than +3 Celsius, more like +10 Celsius... Poor birds are going to get into real trouble if they've laid eggs already...

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20 hours ago, Borvoc said:

@Shadowlax That's a very detailed opinion (take that as a compliment). I still don't think that Sadow is as OP as you seem to indicate, and even if he is, it's just a matter of a good writer fixing that. Regarding the Team Dark team dynamic, I think Sonic '06 established that Omega could defeat shadow, at least under certain circumstances and that Rouge cares for Shadow and is willing to support him, whether or not she'll admit to that under normal circumstances.

I think its more Eggman, GUN or both put in a mechanism to stasis shadow like in sa2, in omega and activated it when shadow wasn't expecting it than a fight. Omega has no actual differences than any eggman robot, any sonic character could destroy him. When Omega and rouge were presented with an opponent who is, strait up weaker than shadow who needs to ambush shadow because if he walked in on him and shadow sees him, he's dead. They got rocked. Eclipse didn't bother to even try and hide and do all the other stuff, to try and get the upperhand. He put an actual hole through omega and broke rouge's arm. 

And to be honest, maybe him finding about this mechanism inside of omega could genially be an interesting, an interesting an engaging storyline. Maybe rouge knows, maybe, she isn't completely off the table with the idea. He develops trusts issues, maybe leaves gun, interesting stories can come from this. Maybe eggman activates it and shadow somehow gets out and he is in full on " Time to murder " mode. Which if they ever needed a neat way to get rid of most of the eggbosses , that might be fun. 

So this is, where we reach the crux of our problem, SEGA. That potential interesting storyline is basically non canon. Sega outside of three elements doesn't acknowledge sonic 06 happened, in game " lore" , along with the game retconing itself out of existence, that interesting potential plotline is non existent. 

Rouge while she could be support, and actually was genuinely supportive in sonic 06, not mysterious lines. Directly supportive in a way, that would actually give her for a moment more character than most of the female characters in sonic for a moment. But again it was reconnected out of existence so... there isn't really much of anyhing. and the book itself doesn't really do anything to create that feeling of support that couldn't really be provided by another character. For example , relic could have just yelled at shadow and knuckles. 

This isn't just a comic issue though, its a sonic issue. Along with not really exspanidng any sonic character in general in any meaningful way in years, and the new sonic forces looking like a giant representation of that problem. 

 

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Omega is a calculating hothead (new heat sink, anyone?), Shadow is a bit of a hothead too, but less so than Omega. He has a more developed, rigid moral codthis ie. Rouge is the most laid back of the three, but probably also the most clever.

Shadow's pretty chill, even in the comic where he was actually fighting knuckles, he was trying to like reason with the guy. I would say rouge is more chill though, I can't say omega is a hot head, he's just barely understand human emotional timing nor does he really care to.And that's why he's my special robot boy. 

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Shadow can rely on Rouge's spy skills and her cool head when he needs it. She's also less likely to get caught up in a certain way of seeing things, as Shadow and Omega could be. He can also rely on Omega for sheer firepower, loyalty, and tenacity. Omega can probably also take the most hits of anyone on the team and then just get repaired and/or rebuilt as needed.

 I think the only spy skills shadow would need, is more in the information gathering and negotiation and bardering/extortion. But that again, doesn't actually require her to be around. And to be honest, watching shadow just deal with people given his extremely blunt personality and possibly getting verbally styled on by far more educated people, is far more interesting and would give him a genuine flaw that allows him to get styled on. For me seeing him having to deal with, dealing with people is pretty funny. And its happened before with marine, in the pre-reboot. And it was funny. It was a shadow adventure, and shadow got to interact with two characters he never gets to interact with and you get to see him be out of his element. That's what I want, for all of them, its why I want them to seperate. And I want that sort of thing for all of them. 

Loyalty would be interesting, but it never gets brought up enough to actually play into anything. I don't think that damage thing particularly true with omega, given that shadow has survived falls from space, seems to be invulnerable to bullets has on multiple occasions to be physically though than a lot of the other non robot characters, and omega having eclipse literally punch through him. I would say he's just about as Durable as any other of eggmans robots. 

Him being able to instant repair like bastion would genuinely be interesting, but the only time repair is brought up is in sonic 06 where shadow does that. Which again would be interesting bonding moments between the two, but everything in that game besides 3 things are never brought up, so its meaningless and almost basically non canon .So I guess we are to assume omega is a very lucky ducky and never gets hurt, or all repairs happen off screen with some GUN tech.

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So, again, I think with a good writer and with Sega allowing it, there are good stories that could be told here.

With sega allowing it, a bunch of interesting things could happen. Its just that , for both good and bad reasons, they are much more restrictive on the franchise. They are playing it a lot more " safe" safe in quotation marks because given the reception to forces, maybe too safe. 

 

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11 hours ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

The Archie version of Shadow reminds me of John Reese from Person of Interest. Just the right mix of grumpy and dry humour. 

That would make Rouge the equivalent of Root. Not sure about Omega. 

This comparison is hilarious and I agree about Shadow, but Sticks is definitely Root (my favorite in PoI) as both are crazy and paranoid, they even share the same voice actress in my country dub.

On topic, I would also love a GUN comic book, I had an idea about it, something like Agents of Shield.

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My other issue with a gun comic along with it,  besides it inevitably being basically just a shadow comic is, who would it even be about?

The nameless gun humans no one cares about? I would like if say, sega decided to ditch gun being all humans and maybe since there are two worlds, there is a version of gun on the " sonic world" with animal characters. That would be kind of neat.

15 hours ago, KingScoopaKoopa said:

Wait, is Shadow the leader? I know he kind of acts as the forward for the team, being the fastest, but I thought Rouge was the one usually in charge?

Shadow is the one who usually calling the shots. Shadow is usually the one everything revovles around , and the team follows him. The team wouldn't exist with him , he's the leader.

Someone put it as him, being handled, I guess that's the correct way to put it. 

I don't think shadow, or this is at least how I view it, shadow actually works for gun. They just call him in when stuff needs doing. I don't think most things in the world are shadow problems, if that makes sense. That's how I always saw it. 

Its why I don't like tracy yardley's comic where he just has a job, its quite strange and doesn't really make any sense. But a lot of things in that book make no sense characterization wise so, 

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1 hour ago, Chameleon94 said:

This comparison is hilarious and I agree about Shadow, but Sticks is definitely Root (my favorite in PoI) as both are crazy and paranoid, they even share the same voice actress in my country dub.

Well, this may be a bit off-topic but here the guy who is Eggman in Boom TV show's dubbed version here is actually the same guy who has the role of Murray on our country's dubbed version of Sly Cooper games. And he sounds kind of same in both roles which is hilarious, especially when the Doctor wants to have "evil ham". That and I can still hear original shouts here and there in the episodes. It's kind of awkward. Actually the voice choices are maybe the best part of the program for me...

Ahem, back to topic for me too.

About that Omega's "power-level" thing, I'm not certain whether "it's over 9000" or not. I just can't think anything else than that first(?) Team Dark cutscene in Sonic Heroes where him and Shadow are fighting until Rouge ends up between them and stops them. The feeling I got from that cutscene is they can at least work for a good warm-up for each other. I dunno about any gaps between their "power-levels" but it's enough for me to consider Omega at least somewhat capable hothead as @Borvoc put it earlier here.

And I suppose, by the looks, that his limbs could be working by of some kind of pressured gas system, not that unlike from the ones in truck brakes for example. If that'd be the case, he'd need to be a hothead to keep the pressure up for moving around. ^_^ And this is just pure speculation, does anybody have technical layouts for Omega here so they could prove me wrong, pretty please? :blush: Since this pretty much may not be the case, considering how slow those systems tend to be, as far as I know.

And surely GUN would do some alterations to Omega, if not for any other reason than making sure Eggman won't do any monkey bussiness with him after all. It would be a missed opportunity not to update his other features as well, at least as far as I know. Until they're uncertain about where his loyalities lay but then again, he's a robot so I don't really consider that option so possible.

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7 hours ago, BlueSky said:

About that Omega's "power-level" thing, I'm not certain whether "it's over 9000" or not. I just can't think anything else than that first(?) Team Dark cutscene in Sonic Heroes where him and Shadow are fighting until Rouge ends up between them and stops them. The feeling I got from that cutscene is they can at least work for a good warm-up for each other. I dunno about any gaps between their "power-levels" but it's enough for me to consider Omega at least somewhat capable hothead as @Borvoc put it earlier here.

And I suppose, by the looks, that his limbs could be working by of some kind of pressured gas system, not that unlike from the ones in truck brakes for example. If that'd be the case, he'd need to be a hothead to keep the pressure up for moving around. ^_^ And this is just pure speculation, does anybody have technical layouts for Omega here so they could prove me wrong, pretty please? :blush: Since this pretty much may not be the case, considering how slow those systems tend to be, as far as I know.

And surely GUN would do some alterations to Omega, if not for any other reason than making sure Eggman won't do any monkey bussiness with him after all. It would be a missed opportunity not to update his other features as well, at least as far as I know. Until they're uncertain about where his loyalities lay but then again, he's a robot so I don't really consider that option so possible.

I don't think that either Sega or Archie has published any kind of technical diagram for Omega. We don't even know what really powers him. Which is to say, the earlier E-Series robots were powered by captured animals, just like the classic Badniks. There is every possibility that Omega also has a captured animal at his core, although he's never had those organic memory 'glitches' which Gamma experienced.

Regardless, I you have an interested idea with the possibility that GUN could always upgrade of customise Omega. After all, Omega would need incremental upgrades to remain a cutting-edge killing machine. I'm sure that GUN could find many uses for that kind of utility, giving Omega different mission load outs etc. Although, in a practical sense that would start to make Omega function more like Mega Man then any of Eggman's robots.

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