Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Ryannumber1gamer]

That's an exaggeration on my part, but it doesn't change the fact that we've gone total gloom and doom mode over a second hand account that seemingly doesn't have evidence to back it up apart from facts we already know. As I said, anyone can weave together a story that seems realistic by using pre-existing facts. I can also say that Kingdom Hearts 3 is releasing early next year because we've already seen a lot of gameplay, it's had a long development cycle, and we know the full focus went on KH3 when Final Fantasy 15 finished development. It sounds realistic because of the facts we already know, but there's no actual proof to backup anything.

That's not to mention the contradictions in the story. For example, saying they're being quiet about it because there will be backlash is totally contradictory when there would be even more backlash for keeping fans and subscribers in the dark regarding the series, and not letting them know sooner. That's not to mention the fact that when Mega Man hit hiatus, and Boom cancelled, things ended up being cleared up relatively quickly, and communication was clearly present with the solicts even stating as such. It just doesn't make sense frankly that Archie wouldn't say a word about it if this was an open and shut case and it's already done. There's no reason to. For a business, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be too afraid of backlash about cancelling Sonic if it was supposedly doing so badly anyway, and on top of that, it's even more backwards they wouldn't say a word regarding it in hopes that somehow the backlash would magically disappear. 

So once again, I'm in the same position. I simply can't take that account as fact because there's no proper evidence behind it besides pre-existing points we're already aware of. For the last four months, I'm nearly sure we've had people say at least once a month that definite word is here and it's definitely cancelled, only for someone else to reveal another piece of evidence, let it be a email from Archie or something else that reveals the situation hasn't changed and it could go one way or the other. I don't see why this is the one we're definitely certain is totally real when it's once again just a second hand account from a supposed Archie informant who happened to be around on FCBD. It's probably the optimist in me speaking, but again, I'm just gonna wait on official word or actual evidence that proves that it's done once and for all.

[NotHole]

Some things to keep in mind regarding the license going to a different publisher:

No one else has Archie's newsstand/subscription distribution (other than DC and Marvel to an extent and neither wants the license) so those sales are off the table. Meaning IDW or any interested publisher would look more closely at the direct market sales. Those haven't been great and are unlikely to justify a keep-everything-the-same attitude.

Archie has lost the license but digital copies of the books are still available as are the majority of their trades. The biggest reason to not reboot would be to keep interest in the backcatalog, but a new publisher would only be advertising for a competitor in this case.

16 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

That's not to mention the contradictions in the story.

I'm not seeing the contradictions. Fans have been in the dark for months and there has been very little backlash. Some people are still in denial that the book is even ending at Archie. If they announce tomorrow that the Sonic subs are being changed to something else that draws a definitive line in the sand. More people will notice and be angry.

Mega Man and Boom were different circumstances. They didn't lose the license for those books without notice.

Personally I'm expecting the fabled e-mail update to go out next week. No update will be given for the status of the Sonic books, but it will announce that the subs have been changed to Jughead because Ian's first issue on the book is released next week. If they're not interested in Jughead, they'll have the alternative of changing their sub to store credit.

[RetroRy]

1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

That's an exaggeration on my part, but it doesn't change the fact that we've gone total gloom and doom mode over a second hand account that seemingly doesn't have evidence to back it up apart from facts we already know. As I said, anyone can weave together a story that seems realistic by using pre-existing facts. I can also say that Kingdom Hearts 3 is releasing early next year because we've already seen a lot of gameplay, it's had a long development cycle, and we know the full focus went on KH3 when Final Fantasy 15 finished development. It sounds realistic because of the facts we already know, but there's no actual proof to backup anything.

That's not to mention the contradictions in the story. For example, saying they're being quiet about it because there will be backlash is totally contradictory when there would be even more backlash for keeping fans and subscribers in the dark regarding the series, and not letting them know sooner. That's not to mention the fact that when Mega Man hit hiatus, and Boom cancelled, things ended up being cleared up relatively quickly, and communication was clearly present with the solicts even stating as such. It just doesn't make sense frankly that Archie wouldn't say a word about it if this was an open and shut case and it's already done. There's no reason to. For a business, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be too afraid of backlash about cancelling Sonic if it was supposedly doing so badly anyway, and on top of that, it's even more backwards they wouldn't say a word regarding it in hopes that somehow the backlash would magically disappear. 

So once again, I'm in the same position. I simply can't take that account as fact because there's no proper evidence behind it besides pre-existing points we're already aware of. For the last four months, I'm nearly sure we've had people say at least once a month that definite word is here and it's definitely cancelled, only for someone else to reveal another piece of evidence, let it be a email from Archie or something else that reveals the situation hasn't changed and it could go one way or the other. I don't see why this is the one we're definitely certain is totally real when it's once again just a second hand account from a supposed Archie informant who happened to be around on FCBD. It's probably the optimist in me speaking, but again, I'm just gonna wait on official word or actual evidence that proves that it's done once and for all.

I completely agree with @Ryannumber1gamer at this point.  There has always been "someone with a connection" popping up every month that seems to say the same thing.  And to be honest, I thought it was credible this time because at first I thought the person was an artist on the books but I've been told I was wrong on this.  So again it's more of the same thing and yet again no one wants to name their source.  It happened with a "credible" source on 4chan a few months ago and has popped up monthly ever since.

Like Ryan said above, it's probably the optimist in me but I can't trust anything until I have official word from an actual source or name at this point.  And everyone else should probably do the same.  It helps calm your blood pressure. 

[Shadowlax]

11 hours ago, NotHole said:

 

2: Sonic's direct market sales had been trending downward for the last couple years, and Ian did not say sales were going swimmingly. He said they weren't in danger of cancellation and subs had been going up. Without wider context that doesn't say much. Were subs going up after staying the same for years? After dropping sharply off?

 

So , Ian isn't the person who decides when stuff gets canceled. Ian is a writer. So not only, could there just be a possibility of him, just strait up not telling the truth because its none of our business technically, and saying your product isn't selling well while being in a freelance expendable position isn't the best way to keep that job.

Next, he could have been not told the truth. Sometimes the barometer on what is canceled or why changes, with who's in charge ( that's particularly common with television networks unfortunately ) , sometimes it changes with a change of plans, so whether sonic was worth continuing or not based on what Archie wanted to do, and if that poster is telling the truth, rising production costs via them having to pay more to keep the licence. So that may have changed. 

Also they could have just, not told him the truth really about the eventual end of the situation. This happens with jobs with jobs with security where folks have to start paying attention to surroundings to try and predict whats going on. This is even less sure with people who are contracted or commissioned out. They could have told it was fine, lying and had been planning to do this for a while. 

I didn't want to say this at the time, because I didn't really have solid proof of this happening. But while I don't have it now, but sometimes people aren't told the truth, and sometimes they can't. And that sucks, if this is all true by the way. 

 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

@chaosjam

On top of that, I very much doubt that the artists/writers know what's going on at this point either. They know a few things, but I don't think they have all the details, and I doubt they would be, because let's be realistic, I doubt the higher ups would be sharing the exact reasoning of a comic's departure with it's staff. But I have my doubts they know the exact situation surrounding everything either. It could be a case of they were told that the comic was on hiatus or whatever/their work wouldn't be needed for a while, and that's it. On top of that, writers and artists almost definitely would have to be silent as they likely have non-disclosure agreements with Archie and they run the risk of being terminated if they don't remain silent until Archie themselves are ready to announce it.

That's another reason why I take this all with a grain of salt. Considering Ian's attitude, and the attitude of the artists when they were asked about it, which was incredibly vague, it makes me doubtful they would supposedly place their jobs on the line to tell us this information if it was a writer/artist. Even if they weren't working on Sonic anymore, they'd almost definitely want to keep their foot in Archie's door for potential work on any of their other series, as shown with Ian starting his Jughead run, so again, I don't see why anyone would run the gambit of supposedly leaking this too soon and screwing themselves over in the long run.

[PC the Hedgehog]

For what it's worth, editor VIncent Lovallo removed any mention of editing Sonic from his Twitter profile. Make of that what you will.

[Borvoc]

@PC the Hedgehog It's like I said before, the Archie Sonic comics never existed. There was a Super Genesis Wave recently that wiped them from existence, and our memories have slowly been syncing up with the new reality. Soon, this thread will either disappear, or it will suddenly always have been about something else.

[Soniman]

23 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

At this point, I think rebooting would be for the best; there's been too many issues going on with the current lore and whatnot. A fresh start would at least allow writers to ease into it rather than picking up from where previous authors left off and trying to work around it.

I'd miss all of the current Archie exclusive characters myself and would at least hope newer writers would try to incorporate them somehow, even if it meant they'd be playing lesser roles than the original series.

We...... Just had a reboot? I never get why people keep asking for one as if the comics are done unbreachable barrier when its significantly still less complicated then most mainstream comics anyway. 

Though this is a moot point anyway since it's dead 

[NotHole]

Tyson has said he didn't sign an NDA and that he hasn't said more about what's going on out of courtesy.

These aren't state secrets. Ian and most of the artists likely know happened. If they had lost their main source of income for months without any explanation, there would be more anger and less obfuscation from someone in that circle.

32 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Even if they weren't working on Sonic anymore, they'd almost definitely want to keep their foot in Archie's door for potential work on any of their other series, as shown with Ian starting his Jughead run, so again, I don't see why anyone would run the gambit of supposedly leaking this too soon and screwing themselves over in the long run.

Because they didn't like working for Archie and have no interest in ever returning there.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Just now, NotHole said:

Because they didn't like working for Archie and have no interest in ever returning there.

Even if that was the case, it's not exactly showing good signs for future employers if you leak information they don't want announced or revealed. 

[NotHole]

1 minute ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Even if that was the case, it's not exactly showing good signs for future employers if you leak information they don't want announced or revealed. 

Their name wasn't attached to the leak. I doubt it would matter much if it even was because no one knows or cares about this stuff outside of Sonic fandom.

[Your Vest Friend]

1 hour ago, PC the Hedgehog said:

For what it's worth, editor VIncent Lovallo removed any mention of editing Sonic from his Twitter profile. Make of that what you will.

And apparently Ian's been tweaking with his Bumbleking site. They're definitely gone from the calendar. 

Edit: Oh yeah, and Sonic isn't listed under his current public projects, but I don't know how long that's been like that. 

[Tylinos]

49 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

And apparently Ian's been tweaking with his Bumbleking site. They're definitely gone from the calendar.

Err, no they're not?  They're still listed in the January to April pages like they originally were.

[Your Vest Friend]

Just now, Tylinos said:

Err, no they're not?  They're still listed in the January to April pages like they originally were.

I checked April '17's page earlier and they were missing. That's odd. 

[Shiny Gems]

So, what has happened to the comic now? Has it been cancelled? Just curious.

[Evercross]

1 minute ago, CrystalStorm51 said:

So, what has happened to the comic now? Has it been cancelled? Just curious.

No one knows for sure, but some unofficial sources have said yes.

Honestly, with the time that's passed and them saying nothing, it might as well be.

[Shadowlax]

2 hours ago, NotHole said:

Tyson has said he didn't sign an NDA and that he hasn't said more about what's going on out of courtesy.

These aren't state secrets. Ian and most of the artists likely know happened. If they had lost their main source of income for months without any explanation, there would be more anger and less obfuscation from someone in that circle.

They don't have to be state secrets, higher ups not telling you why your project is canceled, and cancelling it and giving you a bullshit vague answer when telling you is a thing that happens. And not just with comic books, with multi million dollar games, it happens. They are going a different way with their business and it doesn't involve sonic, and they aren't going to tell anyone unless they have to.

Business people aren't your friend, they aren't even their employee's friend, and unless contractually obligated not to, a lot of the time they do scummy shit. It happens. People working on the book might not know, and they then know when its done. 

There were television shows where people were going to work, and when they got to work they found out their show was canceled and that's it. That's a thing that happens, right now. 

[Your Vest Friend]

Oh, you just reminded me of the bunch of people kept on an island for a year on the basis of it being for a live TV show, only for the TV show to be cancelled very early into that year and the production company not telling them, effectively keeping them stranded without proper knowledge of the situation. Yeah, companies can do some really scummy (and crazy) shit. 

[JC_Mike]

6 hours ago, Borvoc said:

Then again, this would all rely on the hypothetical new publisher's ability to acquire use of Archie's creative staff along with their creations and ideas. It mus also be noted that, smart as the above would be, business isn't always built (or destroyed) on people making smart decisions.

Archie does not own anything that was created in the comics, SEGA does. Plus, most, if not everybody who works directly with the comics, is freelance, besides Lovallo. Although I doubt he would be willing to stay around Archie if they decide to drop the comics.

[Dejimon11]

18 hours ago, NotHole said:

4: Mega Man had lousy sales and was hardly regarded as one of the best comics on the market. Outside of Sonic comic and Mega Man fans, it was ignored, just like the Sonic comics. These are niche books.

This is something a lot of people seemed to miss. Mega Man while yeah well received by fans it wasn't doing well enough. Granted most of the hate has to do with bad management/bad timing since that failed kickstarter and them pushing their own stuff just made things worse. I understand if they want to make themselves relevant but at the same time you could balance between both stuff especially since the Sonic comic has been a major reason why they've been afloat for years. Again sales have been on the decline yes but so was their main Archie stuff as well so it comes off hypocritical. 

[Linkabel]

Remember when Penders first started his lawsuits and people's response was "don't worry, Sega owns everything."

 

Sure, it is true that they do but as we found out everything wasn't so black and white.

 

Plus, the smartest thing for Sega would be to start new and for people to start coming around to the idea that there's a big possibility this is coming.

[Kintor]

2 minutes ago, El Driver said:

Remember when Penders first started his lawsuits and people's response was "don't worry, Sega owns everything."

 

Sure, it is true that they do but as we found out everything wasn't so black and white.

 

Plus, the smartest thing for Sega would be to start new and for people to start coming around to the idea that there's a big possibility this is coming.

Yeah, this time Sega should get the lawyers involved from day one and make sure that all the contracts are water tight. It's frustrating to say but Sonic the Hedgehog deserves a better line of comics then what Archie can provide. That all the good stories that the Archieverse has produced over the years seems to be in spite of Archie's management not because of the environment they created. With a bit of foresight and preparation another publisher like IDW (for example) would make much better use of the Sonic comic licence.

[ChromeDome93]

Are we doing this thing again? Someone comes online with unverified claims that the comic is dead, everyone takes it as gospel, it ends up becoming a game of telephone and then people on Twitter start claiming the book is "officially" canceled?

Didn't we play this game a month ago when the PREVIEWS WORLD listings got marked as canceled? Keep in mind, that was a formality as the books had all gone past their originally solicited shipping dates, and if SEGA pulled the license (which I think we can all agree on is what happened at this point seeing as there was evidence that Archie intended for there to be a Sonic FCBD book and additional issues in 2017) they would no longer be orderable by comic shops anyway.

Then, two weeks ago, someone claimed that they spoke to the customer service rep at Archie and that there would be an "email going out" to all subscribers? Didn't that email never get sent out? And that caused the guy at TSSZ News to post on his blog, multiple times, that the books were "officially" canceled, sending fans into a tailspin? Why is it that no comic book or video game news sites are reporting on these rumors and only TSSZ? Why hasn't anyone from TSSZ reached out to Archie for an official statement and seem intent on only reposting posts from forums?

The last official word we received on the Sonic books was that Archie and SEGA are discussing the future of the books. That was what happened when someone trapped Tracy Yardley into responding to a DM and then he got word back from Archie. Since that point, we haven't received any word from either Archie or Sega's PR teams.

The fact that Archie and SEGA have not yet released an official statement to all their subscribers and fans at this point is a GOOD THING in that it means that the book is NOT CONFIRMED to be dead yet. If talks are still ongoing, it means that there is still a chance we can see the rest of the books that Archie had already finished (the finale to Genesis of a Hero, Mega Drive 3) and likely a continuation of the books in some form.

Until we get an ABSOLUTE CONFIRMATION from either Archie or SEGA, let's stop spreading these rumors. These comics and characters mean a lot to so many people, including young people and some who look at Sonic comics as their one outlet. I have many friends who have aspergers or are on the spectrum and these rumors really affect them negatively. While it sucks that Archie and Sega haven't said anything yet, and we have every right to be upset and angry about it, we have to think it's for a reason. If they have no final legal settlement on the books, they can't announce anything.

If ARCHIE goes ahead and announces the books are canceled and SEGA decides they wants to renegotiate their deal, they shoot themselves in the foot. If Archie says the books are returning and SEGA decides to pull out, they shoot themselves in the other foot. We have to assume that until this situation is sorted out by the executives at both companies, we won't hear anything but rumors and hearsay.

[Graystripe2000]

Sonic's not on Ian's current projects list. 

http://bumbleking.com/

[Celestia]

Makes sense, even if the book isn't cancelled. Issues aren't coming out right now, after all.

I wonder if Ian removed Sonic from that list during the last hiatus. Anyone know?