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@NicoGuardian, Sonic fans and the quality of recent Sonic games and TV show is a very interesting topic to discuss, but it's probably outside the purpose of this thread, aside from how it affects or could affect the comics. To me, the comics have been higher quality than the rest of the recent franchise. Perhaps I am missing your point, so if I am, I would need you to further explain what you mean. ^_^;. If you're saying that the fans are killing the comics, then I hope it's not true, but I can see where you're coming from.

You are correct in saying that Archie is not as successful as Marvel and DC—at least not as classically successful as sold in comic shops. Unlike Marvel and DC, Archie is able to sell in grocery stores, which is money we likely don't get to see accounted for in sales figures that come from the comic stores, but I would still say that Archie is a much smaller company than Marvel and DC and operates on an entirely different level. I would put Archie closer to IDW and other smaller publishers, probably even smaller than IDW, but I have no real information beyond that opinion.

I think the main guesses regarding what's going on between Archie and Sega are (and others can add to the list):

  1. Archie and Sega are renegotiating the contract. Either Sega wants more money for the license or they want to be paid separately for "classic" Sonic and "modern" Sonic, which again is more money. Or maybe they want Archie to reboot like you mentioned and make the comics even more like the games if not exactly the same and Archie is fighting back (I don't see this last option as likely, because I don't think it would take this long to figure out).
  2. Archie doesn't care about Sonic anymore because of their new Riverdale TV show and their All New All Different Archie. (Some sources seem to have denied this, but it could still be a small factor regarding what Archie is choosing to focus on.)
  3. Archie is having financial issues and simply can't print the issues or pay for the license until things stabilize. (I don't know if people are actually saying this; it's just a thought. Archie has printed on lower-quality paper for their trade paperbacks recently.)
  4. The Fulop lawsuit has something to do with what's going on. Either it's draining resources or making Sega question whether or not they want to continue doing business with Archie. Maybe Archie and Sega are both waiting on the results of the court case before deciding what to do with the comics. (Again, some disagree with this possibility, but I think it could maybe at least be a small factor.)

Whether any of the of the above is true, I don't think anyone can say with certainty, but that's my attempt at consolidating the various theories.

I've stated before that I hope that Sega isn't demanding another reboot, since I think this would bring the comics down to the level of the rest of the current franchise and guarantee financial ruin and cancellation of the comics. You're right; doing so would make the comics little more than filler for the sub-par games, while possibly still being better than the games.

I can't tell if you're asking me about Countdown, but I liked it just fine. I'm  happy to hear your thoughts if you have any.

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Sorry everyone. I feel as though I was not adequately notified that the discussion regarding the delays had been moved, and everyone since then has been implying that fact instead of outright and clearly stating it. I'll refrain from further discussing the delays here.

Edit: I probably just didn't understand the staff note quote. I've never seen a link from one thread to another before and thought it was just a weird quote, so I skimmed past it. Anyway, whatever. Back to non-delay discussion.

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5 minutes ago, Ernest-Panda said:

I've been meaning to say: does anyone else think Mirage Saloon would be a great location for a post-SGW equivalent to the Sandblasters to hang out?

Nah, they don't seem the "Ol' Western Front" type. If anything, Oil Desert would be perfect (and would have been perfect pre-reboot as well...but it didn't exist when Thicker Than Water came out, so they had Oil Ocean instead). 

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@VEDJ-F In my opinion, Sonic Forces thumbs it nose at the very idea of plot or characterization, based on all the trailers so far. I think an Archie adaptation would have a whole lot of sprucing up to do all around.

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I like to imagine Forces will happen after Chronicles, which is confirmed to take place sometime after the end of the book. (Which hopefully hasn't happened yet) Just say Eggman completely conquered the world while the heroes were away, and he met Infinite.

I just wonder when Forces happened/will happen for Classic Sonic, since we know he experienced Generations right after Sonic 2. (And unlike the games, the comics don't bother with that "two-worlds" malarky.)

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As a pseudo adaptation maybe. But directly lifted ala Heroes in the comic? You'd have to explain why the FFs and every other team was gone, why Cream (and Big) is out of the resistance efforts, why the Egg Army has just not shown up, why GUN wouldn't keep tabs on this (whether Shadow is genuinely, brainwashed, or this is a different Shadow from another time/dimension), and maybe even why Eggman didn't have the clout to take over the world on his own since in the game he required help to do so (as said in the very recent Famitsu interview). 

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I'm just expecting the writing and direction in Forces to be so poor (on par-ish with Colors and Lost World) to where much of it would have to be re-written for an adaptation that doesn't have gameplay to distract from it's many problems.

17 hours ago, Forte-Metallix said:

"two-worlds" malarky

Malarkey is the proper word for Sega's apparent two-worlds paradigm.

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On ‎14‎.‎6‎.‎2017 at 2:59 PM, NicoGuardian said:

Thanks ^W^ 

You're welcome. Sorry if it seemed a bit frosty, I was trying to be informative, quick and not too mod-like (heaven forbid me doing something like that ever, I don't want to step on toes and/or act of being any better I am :blush: ). It's a tough act of balance. I hope it helped though. ^_^

On ‎14‎.‎6‎.‎2017 at 2:02 AM, VEDJ-F said:

They want the situation cleared up, not get a migraine. 

...And after that post I realised my brain chemistry works so differently compared to the others. Sorry, I just recalled it wasn't that far on the past pages when this stuff emerged the time just before this latest one. :blush:

_____________________

Somehow, the Avatar's E3 version's description on one of Stadium's articles about the said matter as a character not having any superpowers and relying on tech and such instead does give me a bit same kind of vibes the FF as a concept kind of gives, not so much of the tech part rather than the not-superpowered but still competent enough to do stuff.

And there it kind of leaves at this point.

I feel a bit divided over Forces getting included onto the comics; straight-forward adaptation would leave too many questionmarks I think, as other's have stated already. On the other hand, something akin to what they did with the Unleashed story (at least what they did before WU was well-made I think, they got in hurry after that) would work way better.

...And if someone's not knowing what to read at the moment; read One Piece if crazy doesn't scare you off. It was about as love at the first sight it can get for me... :D

 

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On 6/10/2017 at 2:46 AM, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Yeah, that was one group that didn't show up. I wouldn't say they got the shaft tho, despite all that given their reference in Eggman's Dozen.

Well them, maybe the Devils, and the Woodsland Kingsmen. 

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Here's a thinky thing for anyone interested. I got a PM from a member who will remain unnamed unless or until he (using the generic masculine here) wishes to reveal himself. The PM asked about jumping-on points for the comics. I gave my personalized opinion, but I thought it might possibly make an interesting general topic within this thread if anyone's interested. Where would you recommend a new reader jump into the Sonic comics? If there are multiple entry points you might recommend based on the tastes of the person in question, then what are they? Are there any parts of the comic you would discourage someone reading as an introduction to the books? If so, what are they an why?

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Fair 'nough. Maybe this is a simpler topic than I thought. What do you think of Sonic Genesis as a jumping-on point? Or even Worlds Collide for people who just want the new stuff but also want to know what's up with the Super Genesis Wave stuff at the beginning of #252?

Edit: Also, does anyone have any thoughts on jumping-on points for the pre-Ian (prian? prean?) stuff, or is it basically that if you read the old stuff you might as well start at the beginning? I understand that things get a bit more serious around #21 for people who want to skip the initial jokey phase of the comics.

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12 minutes ago, Borvoc said:

What do you think of Sonic Genesis as a jumping-on point? Or even Worlds Collide for people who just want the new stuff but also want to know what's up with the Super Genesis Wave stuff at the beginning of #252?

Worlds Collide can work too, assuming they have an easy way to read the issues in order. (Since it's a multi-series crossover and all.)  Genesis I'd suggest against, since it might just make things even more confusing for a first-time reader, considering it just adds more non-canon origins for everyone.

Another possible starting point could be Genesis of a Hero 1 to 3 before moving on to Worlds Collide, since even without GoaH 4, it still retells Sonic 1, 2, and CD in the new continuity, and helps briefly introduce the FFs, the King, and Naugus (sort of) ahead of 252 and Countdown to Chaos.

Mega Drive and The Next Level could also work, if the lack of a conclusion doesn't feel like it'd be a problem.

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In my opinion the "Perfect" (and easiest) Jumping-Point is:

Genesis of a Hero 1-3 --> Worlds Collide --> StH 252 --->

it presents some backstory and throw you right into action before going back to a slower pace in 252, and then when it starts developing the story you already have a good baggage of knowledge about the characters and overall setting.

 

But we also have the other jumping-point, which is StH 160, the debut of Ian Flynn and Tracy Yardley! (A.K.A OMG IS THIS THE SAME COMIC AS LAST ISSUE???SRSLY?)

this one i only recomend if the person is willing to go through a lot of material he'll not understand at first, and will need to read some older stuff (or just search on Mobius Encyclopedia) to fully understand what's going on,  But for newcomers i would still recomend "the easiest" jumping-point and after if he is curious about the pre-SGW continuity i'd recomend #160 as a place to start

 

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12 hours ago, Tylinos said:

Worlds Collide can work too, assuming they have an easy way to read the issues in order.

This is a good point. The new reader would either have to know the reading order of all the books ahead of time or would need to just buy the tree collected trade paperback volumes or the one Complete Epic trade paperback and then know know what issue to pick up the regular book on again (whatever issue comes right after worlds collide).

12 hours ago, Tylinos said:

Another possible starting point could be Genesis of a Hero 1 to 3 before moving on to Worlds Collide, since even without GoaH 4, it still retells Sonic 1, 2, and CD in the new continuity, and helps briefly introduce the FFs, the King, and Naugus (sort of) ahead of 252 and Countdown to Chaos.

9 hours ago, NikoS said:

In my opinion the "Perfect" (and easiest) Jumping-Point is:

Genesis of a Hero 1-3 --> Worlds Collide --> StH 252 --->

Huh. I hadn't considered starting with Genesis of a hero, since it's the last arc that's been (partially) released at this point, but I see where that would make sense for people who don't want to mess with the previous continuity at all. Not knowing anything about the previous continuity would kind of kill the reader's understanding of what was changed by the Super Genesis Wave and the shock that the characters to through when syncing memories with Nicole soon after #252, but if the reader doesn't really care, then it's not really a loss. It seems that no jumping-on point is completely perfect, though I can see the merits of starting with GoaH.

Anyone have any thoughts on The Battle to Bring Down the Eggman (#198-200), The Iron Dominion (#201-212 + Sonic Universe #13-16), or Rise of King Naugus (#219-#224) as later jumping on points for someone who may want to understand the the setup leading into Fall of The Freedom Fighters (#231-#235) and the subsequent reboot at #252? It seems like The Battle to Bring Down the Eggman in particular might be a good late place to start pre-#252, as a new reader would be starting with a classic Sonic vs. Eggman fight that kind of leads into everything that follows.

Skipping ahead, I feel like I could make an argument for One Step Forward... (#225), Genesis (#226-#229), and ...Two Steps Back (#230) as being necessary reading for anyone who wants to start with the Fall of The Freedom Fighters arc, as it introduces the concept of the Super Genesis Wave (At least I don't think it was previously a thing) as well as the whole

Spoiler

Mecha Sally

thing that rides out the rest of the pre-reboot.

At All Costs: Part 1 (#247) also seems like it could be a last-minute pre-reboot jumping on point as it would start the reader in media res (fancy Latin term for starting in the middle of things; many films, etc., do this for the sake of excitement) and immediately lead him into Worlds Collide. You'd miss out on a lot of the emotional build-up, but you'd get at least some appreciation for what the Super Genesis Wave changed and how it affected the characters.

Anyway, I've been forced to think about this myself recently (as explained previously), so I just thought I'd see what everyone else thinks. I've heard some good ideas from everyone already. Feel free to comment further or critique my own recommendations, as they might not all be good.

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