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40 minutes ago, Cuz said:

(Man... given how steeped in Arthurian motifs Archie was I'm surprised it never tried to adapt Black Knight)

It did. For one issue. Actually, it was just a word-for-word retelling. Of just the first cutscene. THEN IT JUST TELLS YOU TO PLAY THE REST OF THE GAME.

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Ah, they've done too many of those for me to keep track of. I hate when they do that... why even bother with those? (I mean sure it probably pleases someone on the Sega marketing board but come on!)

 

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On 7/2/2018 at 1:11 PM, MetalSkulkBane said:

I'm sure people will list Geoffrey, likeable Egg Bosses, Eclipse, Ellidy, etc.

 

Easily it was Elias, king who never wanted a crown but was forced to fight for it.

Nate Moran was a nice example, tragic hero always punished for doing the right thing. (And quite forgotten character).

And I would never call King Max complex, not until his last appearance where you can see him as broken man, who sacrificed everything for his kingdom, even relation with his own children, only to see it all fall apart anyway, in a hands of mad wizard and his own daughter lost to madder scientist.

And lastly... Preboot Eggman. From a evil dictator killing his own people, through lonely scientist who made himself mechanical children, only later to be betrayed by one of them (other he killed himself), to a man who replaced his need for family with "the game", playing his foes and allies in a chess for life and death, doing incredibly stupid decisions just for thrill of it. Man who became computer, man again, went insane and then rationalized himself back to sanity (somewhat). Dr warlord Julian Ivo Robo-Kintobot Mk 2 is sure complicated character. And he hates that Hedgehog.

Those are pretty good examples.

Though I hear Nate Morgan's problem for some people was the fact that he felt rather redundant, or more accurately, was kind of lacking in personality/agency/whateveritwas.

3 hours ago, Cuz said:

Athair fits that bill for me. Being the only Guardian to refuse the post when he discovered a higher calling puts him in a interesting position within his family. He instead tried to guide a tribe of echidnas, whose ancestors decided they didn't like the whole "floating island" idea back in the day, to mythical Avalon. (Man... given how steeped in Arthurian motifs Archie was I'm surprised it never tried to adapt Black Knight). Kind of wished they hadn't killed him off, he was more interesting alive than he was as a spirit head. At least him and Knuckles could bicker on mostly equal terms. You can't really argue with a dead guy and feel like you got the high ground.

 

 

Actually, it was Albion, the homeland of the Echidnas. Mercia was the Arthurian analogue Preboot.

But yeah, Athair is one of those bittie characters I fond inherently intriguing for whatever reason.

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10 hours ago, Cuz said:

Ah, they've done too many of those for me to keep track of. I hate when they do that... why even bother with those? (I mean sure it probably pleases someone on the Sega marketing board but come on!)

 

I figure it's allowing them to fulfill some sort of contractual obligation without pulling a Sonic Adventure 2 adaptation on us. Remember that little bit of derailing that didn't gel with where the comic was at the time and didn't see a proper in-book resolution for over a decade?

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Oh, maybe the king was considerate enough to tell a little white lie for not making Sally to worry... 😑

Or, the option I myself favour more, he considered it small fries compared to the problems in other places. I don't recall it perfectly but I think that... land-split-thing was located in a more-or-less uninhabited area.

It wasn't anything, like, say, a freaking flood on Station Square or anything as far as I remember. It could also be the context he had in mind was about how the inhabited areas were more than how the islands in general were. Though I can't really go and ask for confirmation from him, you know...

Either way, King Badass has an interesting schema about what's "the worst" but whatever, I could see him thinking more about casualities than the actual landscape. Considering how I see his character anyway.

Though that burd was about to become a casuality but how could he have known of that, it didn't have a walkie-talkie or anything with it, unless it was hidden inside its beak or summat like that...

... ... ...

Is it a bad thing this topic of the day made me feel excited again, like I remember the stuff being actually interesting and exciting...

Sad.

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RE: game adaptations, I feel like I've said this before but I wish we had gotten more like the Riders one. It was a backup story...but was actually canon to the book and quickly introduced the Rogues to the continuity.

Obviously that wouldn't be viable for every new game and the elements it introduces to the series, and I can also appreciate how unintrusive the "another time, another place" stories were, but...in some cases it felt like kind of a waste? In the post-reboot (and IDW-wise (so far)) it's not as much of an issue though, since [almost] all the games have already happened so they can just be like "oh yeah that's a thing that exists / happened."

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4 hours ago, Ernest-Panda said:

How do you know?

What issue did those come out on?

Also, I kinda got the vibe the crevice opened up relatively recently.

1 hour ago, BlueSky said:

 

Or, the option I myself favour more, he considered it small fries compared to the problems in other places. I don't recall it perfectly but I think that... land-split-thing was located in a more-or-less uninhabited area.

That too.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Celestia said:

RE: game adaptations, I feel like I've said this before but I wish we had gotten more like the Riders one. It was a backup story...but was actually canon to the book and quickly introduced the Rogues to the continuity.

That shaped up to be a pretty good arc. (but then anything that lets the Grand Battle Kukku rear his head gets an 'A' from me 🙃)

Personally I like when the adaptions are a little heavier and incorporate multiple issues. The new continuity hit the ground running with an Unleashed adaption I never knew I wanted.

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World’s Unite.

House of Cards got bad near the end, and even then it’s not hard to fix. If anything, it could haved used more issues to flesh out and maybe avoid the problems it got. Things were building up, and although it went about things too fast, and brought up things that really shouldn’t have mattered like Tails still being upset over Fiona inspite of the fact that before this point she heartlessly slapped the fuck out of him, it did have a solid ground to work with. Plus, it gave a believable cause for Sonic and Tails to get into an argument and then a full blown fist fight with each other for the first time in the franchise, even if the whole Fiona thing threw it out of wack in the end. Then there’s the resolution, not to bad but far from being the best given that it was dealt with too quickly—all sides had a point, and Sally’s idea if a republic was actually pretty sound, but it came off as anti-climactic. Nevermind the factions decided to almost get into a civil war in the middle of their current war with Eggman. 

World’s Unite, tho? It’s first problem was interrupting the Unleashed adaptation already in progress, which may or may not have led to the adaptation trying to rush to the end the way it did, all for the sake of a publicity stunt in having Sega and Capcom franchises in one huge crossover. Then there was the massive cast that took up too much room in very little time and space, making it overbloated as a result—could’ve worked with more issues at a different period of time instead of in the middle of the Shattered World Crisis if they were going to do that. Then there’s the fact that it completely resetted itself at the end, which made the entire thing pointless in practically the same vein as Sonic 06, with no lasting consequences.

Before the Second Genesis Wave, we could still feel the lingering effects from House of Cards, and as much as it faltered in the end, it was used as a building block for later plots and conflicts. Despite its problems, it felt necessary for the later plots to work the way they did, unlike Worlds Unite which had no such effect on any plots after it—that you could completely remove it entirely with little problems speaks a lot about that.

All in all, House of Cards was an interesting idea of a story that had some up and down execution. Worlds Unite had a good idea, but had poor execution and even worse timing from the start.

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7 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

House of Cards got bad near the end, and even then it’s not hard to fix. If anything, it could haved used more issues to flesh out and maybe avoid the problems it got. 

That'd be a restoration of the original plan.

8 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

World’s Unite, tho? It’s first problem was interrupting the Unleashed adaptation already in progress, which may or may not have led to the adaptation trying to rush to the end the way it did, all for the sake of a publicity stunt in having Sega and Capcom franchises in one huge crossover.

Pretty much the biggest crime, aside from the disconnect between licensing and returns eating into Archie's pocket.

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At least House of Cards was over in two issues, and was drawn well enough. There is even some face value entertainment to be had in seeing Sonic and Tails fight in front of the rouges gallery.

 

Worlds Unite was monstrous in comparison, felt unneeded and the art quality fell off a cliff at several points. Seriously, compare some of the OMG group shots from Worlds Collide to some of the spreads we got out of Unite. It looks painfully rushed and under-staffed artist star power wise. If your going to push a major crossover event, at least trot the A-Team out there to do the drawing Jeez.

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I've been busy lately, so took a bit of a break from reading the Archie run. Decided to start back up again, just reached #150. Honestly, I find #150 pretty hilarious due to how it is basically an erotic fan fic with the erotic bits removed, as evil Sonic replaces good Sonic so he can essentially go around having all the women of Knothole. I doubt that could ever happen in IDW's Sonic.

The Sonic/Shadow/Metal Sonic 4 parter was OK, but it feels like the writer doesn't really *get* Shadow or Metal Sonic, so they come across as very out of character. Neat concept though for a 3 way fight, shame it never really materialises.

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There's only 9 issues of pre-Flynn left. If Silvereye can laugh #150 off I think they're rolling with it pretty well. xD

Oh, and isn't 150 where all the Tails is the chosen one~ build up gives us Titan Tails? 🤣

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Yeah, #149 - #150 are about Tails being the chosen one. It's very anticlimatic considering how long the whole chosen one thing about Tails has been in the comics since, what, that Tails miniseries which would of been something like nearly a decade ago from #149? It's basically a remake of #19, except with a thousand Sonics, it's a thousand Tails. The artwork when Tails goes super or turbo or whatever is very poor as well.

Can't say I ever really cared about that whole little side arc about Tails being the chosen one whenever it popped up, but it definetly seems like a very half-assed conclusion for anyone invested in it. I also still think Mammoth Mogul is super lame, even if he managed to wipe out every single multi-verse except for 2.

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19 hours ago, silvereye27 said:

I've been busy lately, so took a bit of a break from reading the Archie run. Decided to start back up again, just reached #150. Honestly, I find #150 pretty hilarious due to how it is basically an erotic fan fic with the erotic bits removed, as evil Sonic replaces good Sonic so he can essentially go around having all the women of Knothole. I doubt that could ever happen in IDW's Sonic.

That was a milestone issue, mind you.

19 hours ago, silvereye27 said:

 

The Sonic/Shadow/Metal Sonic 4 parter was OK, but it feels like the writer doesn't really *get* Shadow or Metal Sonic, so they come across as very out of character. 

Yeah, the comics had an awkward time finding something for Shadow to do at the time, given he was introduced to be a Dark/Anti-hero Sonic at the time, Heroes wouldn't be out for another 6 months, and SEGA likely didn't quite have what they wanted to do with him decided yet, if they'd even tell Archie about it at the time. 

Also, Metal has character?

19 hours ago, silvereye27 said:

INeat concept though for a 3 way fight, shame it never really materialises.

Wait, it

 

8 hours ago, Cuz said:

Way back in #56 is pretty much where that arc really payed off, and peaked, for what it was, and Turbo Tails never looked better than his original debut.

Yeah, waitaminute...

 

 

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21 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

That was a milestone issue, mind you.

Sonic gets laid on milestone issues?

21 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Yeah, the comics had an awkward time finding something for Shadow to do at the time, given he was introduced to be a Dark/Anti-hero Sonic at the time, Heroes wouldn't be out for another 6 months, and SEGA likely didn't quite have what they wanted to do with him decided yet, if they'd even tell Archie about it at the time.

That makes sense, it does feel awkward as they try to fit Shadow in. I actually found the Adventure 2 adaptation a while back funny due to how they condense it into one issue, with Shadow getting killed off off panel, which ofcourse in #124 they have to retcon so he survived in space so they can bring him back.

21 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Also, Metal has character?

Well, in #145-#149 he does. He's surprisingly chatty and not terribly menacing.

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15 minutes ago, silvereye27 said:

Sonic gets laid on milestone issues?

 

I mean, sure--maybe behind the scenes--, but my point is just look at the other milestones and what they were about. :lol:

17 minutes ago, silvereye27 said:

 

That makes sense, it does feel awkward as they try to fit Shadow in. I actually found the Adventure 2 adaptation a while back funny due to how they condense it into one issue, with Shadow getting killed off off panel, which ofcourse in #124 they have to retcon so he survived in space so they can bring him back.

Oh yeah, he did fall to the planet, didn't he?

17 minutes ago, silvereye27 said:

 

Well, in #145-#149 he does. He's surprisingly chatty and not terribly menacing.

Huh. At the very least, the only stuff I remember of him there is getting into a trolley with Shadow and getting carried off by Mecha/M alongside him.

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