Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[SBR2]

Spoiler

7 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

King Max tells Sonic to remain calm (either because he likes taking whatever opportunity he can to tear down Sonic or because he doesn’t care enough about Sonic’s parents and family to be upset himself)

We all know it's the latter.

 

7 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Then Sonic just says what I’ve always wanted to hear him say.

Sonic the Hedgehog says “FUCK THE KING!”

"Not this time Alfred. Maybe never again." Seriously though if it wasn't for a bit that happens in #77 I'd love this development of Sonic's "Fuck Authority" attitude so much.

 

7 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Sonic goes off on his own and amongst the ruins he’s standing in is eventually greeted by Sally, Tails, Antoine, Bunnie, Amy, and Nate. I actually do like how Amy just molded herself into the cast. She’s been appearing more and more often and now she’s just always around. It’s nice. She’s also not in the lovey dovey state yet. It’s gonna be painful when the comic is going to have her compete with Sally when it's clearly futile and the comic has no actual interest in pushing Amy’s relationship with him.

I mean I don't want to spoil anything but they actually don't do that...with Amy. Mina though.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

What they find is a space station that’s in a bit of a need for self-censorship.

I don’t mean to be immature about this but… come on.

Man even with my dirty mind I didn't notice this until you pointed it out.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Nate tells them through the communicator back on the planet that the ship is dumping metal and chemical waste,

What? That's Nicole dude.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

*Jim Cummings voice* "Bitch, Please!"

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Yeah, a Ken penders story. I know. Art Mawhinney’s style is so inappropriate for the kind of story that's been told here too. It’s very strange.

Also outside of Knuckles #29 this is that last you'll be seeing of Art Mawhinney until like the mid-100's. Though given how he draws the modern designs he maybe should have stayed retired from the book.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Amy and Nate are left behind on the planet and Amy actually has to have a shoehorned flashback to her and Tails being at the library yesterday. She’s like “I can’t believe they’re all gone… especially Uncle Chuck! Why I remember just yesterday talking to him about this war that I have no way of knowing is going to thematically interject with the “return” of Robotnik.”

Whatever works I guess. You could have just posted a yellow box that said “Yesterday” and it would have worked fine though.

This bugs me everytime I read this. They had a caption last issue saying the story happened before the main story so why didn't they just do the same thing instead of having Bollers and Chris Allen do a lead in page. It's so weird and kinda annoying because like a freak I tend read the stories in chronological order which means reading backups all at once.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Anyway, Uncle Chuck explains to the kids and the dalmatian that even knowing what he knows now he’d still save Robotnik. This surprises them. I love Chuck’s explanation but I also love Tails’ reaction.

Bullshit Chuck. I remember the flashback in #50. You were the one who wanted him to die in the woods and Jules wanted to save him. I mean this does fit your established personalities better but it doesn't change the fact you were the one warning Jules in the original flashback.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Robotnik kept up his act of being kind until he was literally handed all of Ixis Naugus’ old weapons on a platter by Warlord Kodos. The guy shows Robotnik a room, personally HANDS him a weapon called an atomic mace, and then tells him about the Zone of Silence and starts it up with his back turned to the guy he’s trying to recruit because he thinks he’s a scumbag. 

I mean… 

So, yeah, Robotnik knocks out Kodos with the atomic mace and pushes him into the Zone of Silence. That’s how Robotnik became the Warlord. PFFT.

Remember how he was supposed to be Robotnik's mentor that he betrayed? I guess Penders didn't.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

As the skin melts away on this evil figure we’re greeted with the horrifying and shockingly well-drawn visage of Robo Robotnik’s metal face. Steven Butler is at his best when he’s drawing stuff that looks like this. Ugly and intensely evil. Things that are supposed to unnerve you.

This legit made me jump the first time I saw it. It freaked me the hell out and I knew about Robo-Robotnik.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Robo-Robotnik then goes on to explain the story of how he came to be here. As I understand it, the Robo-Robotnik thing tends to come with a bit of a contradiction to it that I currently have no recollection of the details to so let me know about it in the responses.

basically the origins stories don't match up. Robo-Robotnik from #19 is from a Terminator parody universe where the half roboticized Freedom Fighters utterly wrecked his shit so he roboticized himself and went looking for the Infinity Gauntlet...I mean the Giants Hand to use Giant Borg. When Robotnik was thrown into an alternate future a couple issues later he met the Venjix Virus...I mean a Robo-Robotnik who's origin story was similar in that his kingdom was collapsing around him and he roboticized himself but the Sonic shown is decidedly not half roboticized and it sounds like he immediately died and beamed his consciousness to a satellite and never even touched Giant Borg. Sop yeah there's 2 and Bollers either forgot or just thought streamlining them into one would work despite the contradictions.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

a very tall Queen Alicia in a stasis tube above them. Her body is drawn too human like, to the point that if she were standing she would be towering over them with her super model like body.

Oh, Butler never change.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

It's here where everyone constantly saying Amy’s full name, "Amy Rose", over and over again when they tell her to escape is grating on the nerves a bit.

Yeah that's weird. I think Bollers and some of the other writers thought her name was Amy Rose The Hedgehog and not just Amy Rose. Mostly because they write it out like that a lot. Another one that bothers me is when Tails is referred to as Tails The Fox.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

We cut back to Mobotropolis where Team Loser… or the King’s Secret Service led by Geoffrey arrive and start saving people. As Hershey runs off with a child in her arms she blurts out that Star Trek line everyone loves, modified to fit the Sonic the Hedgehog comic book. “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few… or the one.”

Excellent re-write. 5 stars.

That's not even modified. That's literally just the quote. Also pour one out for Valdez. It's not confirmed here but he's roboticized. It's revealed in Super Special #11 and is a part of a backup in the last 3 Knuckles issues but really who cares. It's Valdez. I'm not even 100% sure I'm getting his name right.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I’m not sure Sonic would agree that phrase is appropriate in this situation though. Pretty sure he’d prefer everyone be saved. There’s really no reason why you can’t. That’s not something I’d consider applicable in this situation at all. Like… not even a little tiny bit.

I want to point out the very next movie after that line is uttered is about Kirk saying fuck that and going against Starfleets orders because Spock is too important to him to not try and save. He even reverses it to "The needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many".

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I’m wondering why Sally can’t just wait to set the detonator. I know the Super Satellite is gonna be hard as balls to defeat but Sonic’s already super fast and with a ring to make him go faster, you could probably wait to set that timer off for a bit. It’s not like the thing is self-destructing independent of you or anything.

Because they needed a dramatic ticking clock.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

The actual body he chose is of our beloved Adventure era Robotnik. Or should I call him…

THE EGGMAN! 

Hooray he finally has a good design! Rest in shit SatAM Beachball Robotnik.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

The artist for this issue goes by Fry. James Fry to be exact. It all looks rather interesting too. I like his style.

Some people don't like his style but I love James Fry's art. It can be wonky especially later on I'll admit and does reek of "White guy drawing 90's Anime" but it's so visually appealing.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Huh. Strange. Why does he have those? Sonic ran super fast in a Flash/Power Rangers suit carrying an emerald and got zapped with magic bullshit to get green eyes and a buckle on his shoe (so fucking stupid) so why is Tails here just blue in the eyes now? Did the void of blackness in his eyes clear away and reveal the blue of the ocean underneath between stories? Perhaps the view of the ocean from space melded into his irises because he was so entranced by it.

Even weirder pretty soon Knuckles is just going to have Purple eyes with absolutely zero explanation. It's almost like it's not necessary to explain it. But they're still going to try again with Amy. Ooh, boy.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Meanwhile, Sonic spots people in danger of being overtaken by Shadow-Bots, including Mina Mongoose and Honey the Cat.

Oh, shit that is Honey! I legitimately never noticed her there. That's a deep cut especially at this point. There's no way that was intentional.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

He’s got his Mike Pollock voice now so he’s going crazy with the rage in my head. It’s cathartic as hell.

Um acktually he would be Deem Bristo at this point. (Joking. I don't care what voice people hear while reading. Just saw an opportunity.)

 

9 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Mina is a character that's always confused me and has been hard to pin down. All the books I've read with her in them from 160 onward didn't do much of anything with her and I'm not really sure what the purpose to her character was supposed to be because of that. I always liked her just fine. She seemed like a nice girl but I can only surmise, based on context clues, that she existed just to be another potential love interest for Sonic and when that didn't happen she just became another girl. Like, just another one. Just hangin' around with Ash, doing music.

Yeah that's pretty much it honestly. Apparently she was created more by editor Justin Gabrie than she was by Bollers. He wanted a love triangle angle and basically forced her in. In fairness Bollers never really plays it like Sonic could get in a relationship with Mina (apart from one time they shoot goo goo eyes at each other) and neither Sally nor Mina are ever really portrayed as a vile man stealer or whatever and Sonic...is sometimes barely even a participant in the subplot. The most the Love Triangle aspect is really played up is in back ups written by Romy Chacon (Who may or may not have been Gabrie) who writes Sonic as more blatantly attracted to Mina and Sally as more obviously jealous.

 

9 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

It’s like if our world was re-made incorrectly. Yeah there’s humans but there’s also these freaky animal people. Let’s kill them all and make it a world of only humans atop a pile of previously talking animal corpses.

Y'know that's essentially the plot of the last set of Planet of the Apes movies.

 

[Dr. Detective]

13 hours ago, Razule said:

That one Beetles song.

"I am the egg man
They are the egg men
I am the walrus"

Thank you! Jesus Christ. My brain just wouldn't work in trying to figure that out. Obviously it was that.

I thought I was going crazy.

[Dr. Detective]

11 hours ago, SBR2 said:

I mean I don't want to spoil anything but they actually don't do that...with Amy. Mina though.

Oh, no they do. Just not in the literal interpretation that you probably assumed I was talking about. No, I'm talking about how awkward Amy's character felt to me when reading the comics past 160 when she totally is all head over heels for Sonic and the book feels like its dangling her character as a hopeless lost cause that literally has no chance with Sonic because of the mere presence of Sally Acorn and her status as Sonic's girlfriend rather than Amy's status as wannabe girlfriend.

There are a couple of examples where it sticks out to me, namely whenever Amy brings up Sonic and Sally being together or someone else brings up Sonic and Sally being together around Amy, or when Sonic is carrying Sally in his arms while running past an onlooking Amy on the cover of one of the books, or in the Iron Dominion where he and Amy go get lunch when Sonic sees Sally walking off with Khan, as if that was ever going to lead anywhere. 

That's the stuff I'm talking about. 

I was mostly hinting at stuff to come and my feelings towards it when it happens. It's a long ways off from where I am here and it's mostly stuff I've already read. 

Quote

basically the origins stories don't match up. Robo-Robotnik from #19 is from a Terminator parody universe where the half roboticized Freedom Fighters utterly wrecked his shit so he roboticized himself and went looking for the Infinity Gauntlet...I mean the Giants Hand to use Giant Borg. When Robotnik was thrown into an alternate future a couple issues later he met the Venjix Virus...I mean a Robo-Robotnik who's origin story was similar in that his kingdom was collapsing around him and he roboticized himself but the Sonic shown is decidedly not half roboticized and it sounds like he immediately died and beamed his consciousness to a satellite and never even touched Giant Borg. Sop yeah there's 2 and Bollers either forgot or just thought streamlining them into one would work despite the contradictions.

Ah. I can't blame him for that if that's what he truly did then. Its really stupid to have two Robo-Robotniks in the same continuity like that for no reason and expect the readers (namely young children) to not forgot or be confused.

[Kuzu]

I remember how pissed off the Sega forums got about Amy's alleged mistreatment.

 

It's all pretty relative though; most people who already liked Sally knew Amy didn't have a chance and just saw her crush as childish.

Amy fans (or at least, people who didn't like or care for Sally) however saw it as "disrespectful" for the series "flaunting" the fact that Amy wasn't going to win.

 

 

It's one of the main reasons Flynn just threw his hands up and decided no more romantic relationships with Sonic.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

28 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

It's one of the main reasons Flynn just threw his hands up and decided no more romantic relationships with Sonic.

I thought that was a Sega mandate. If so, it's one of the few ones that I think caused an actual improvement.

[Kuzu]

6 minutes ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

I thought that was a Sega mandate. If so, it's one of the few ones that I think caused an actual improvement.

Iirc, Flynn could have had Sonic date Sally if he wanted; it's just Sonic and Amy that couldn't be together. So he just cut out the middleman and said "nope" to both.

[Kazhnuz]

AFAIR there is a mandate about Sonic and relationship, but it's more something like "Sonic can't be in a stable relationship", or something like that.

[Cuz]

Sonic can't "settle" but he can have "interests". So there's really nothing wrong with Sonic dating, Ian got flack from both shipping camps and made the choice to pack it in.

[SBR2]

Honestly if I was constantly being yelled at for having a character show off their established crush and being told I hated both potential love interests I'd probably say "Fuck it" and stop with the romance too.

Kinda sucks though because I could totally see Tangle and Whisper as a couple. 

[Silvereyes]

31 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Kinda sucks though because I could totally see Tangle and Whisper as a couple. 

I mean, if anyone can get any kindof romantic plotline, it's probably the original IDW characters. It's Sonic himself who is probably the least likely to ever get such a thing, and I imagine alot of the secondary characters would struggle as well. (I assume at least. Would be interested to see what Sega's mandates about such things would be. I doubt they'd let characters be shipped with each other, like Shadow and Rouge or Blaze and Silver, but maybe say an original character to be a love interest for Shadow or Silver? Be curious about that. Sega has so many guidelines they might as well make a bible. Happy for anyone in know to reply to this.)

[Dr. Detective]

8 hours ago, Kuzu said:

I remember how pissed off the Sega forums got about Amy's alleged mistreatment.

It's all pretty relative though; most people who already liked Sally knew Amy didn't have a chance and just saw her crush as childish.

Amy fans (or at least, people who didn't like or care for Sally) however saw it as "disrespectful" for the series "flaunting" the fact that Amy wasn't going to win.

It's one of the main reasons Flynn just threw his hands up and decided no more romantic relationships with Sonic.

Oh it wasn't just those shitty old Sega Forums. I've recalled a story on here about a different forum talking about their reactions to that moment in the Iron Dominion Arc where Sonic agreed to go out for food with Amy after he saw Sally walk off with Khan. All of them were talking about how much they hated it cause they wanted Sally to be with Sonic (and seriously believed a committed relationship with Amy was a plausible threat) and one of them talked about how they literally ripped the comic in half when they saw that moment. Another person responded by saying that nothing of value was lost.

Also, back in the day, I was definitely one of the people that thought Amy was being "mistreated" even though I didn't care about relationships and drama. My problem was more that seeing her fawn over Sonic when it was clear and obvious she stood NO chance whatsoever and seeing the occasional joke made in her expense was embarrassing. I still sort of do but I'm much smarter now that I'm older and way more aware of the position Ian was in as well as way more tuned to the fact that it didn't matter.

As someone who doesn't care about relationships and relationship drama, I'm fully on board with Ian's approach of "Fuck the romance shit. I'm out." I couldn't have anymore respect for the man for recognizing its not worth it. People get way too paranoid about that crap.

I remember writing a fanfic about Tails meeting Sonic and their adventures thereafter and the instant Amy showed up I got a comment worrying about whether the fic was going to turn into a SonAmy ...even though the fic was about Tails. It confused me so much that her mere presence elicited such a strange response but I assured them that was ridiculous and not at all what was going to happen. 

[BlueSky]

Well, I suppose all the stuff with Sonic's comics "harem" means I should probably be really grateful for how my favourite pairing was handled.

Which I of course really am. Could I possibly ask for more considering it survived the Super Genesis Wave and all? There're only so many pairings I hold any interest towards anyway all the different franchises I'm interested in considered.

And now it's i limbo, permanently.

Oh well, time for me to get to sleep I suppose. It's already like over 5AM in here anyway.

[Sparity]

(Nearly A Decade Later: Looking Back At The Mecha Sally Arc)

 

It isn't hard to believe, that it's been nearly a decade since the Mecha Sally arc began.  And looking back, it's hard to believe all the missed opportunities that they had with his storyarc.

   Now I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it didn't start out promising,  because it did.  I just feel that when they split the teams in two, with one team being  Team Fighters which consisted of Sonic, Amy Rose, and Tails.  Who ended up being the team that followed the Death Egg Mark II to try and save/restore Sally to normal.

Now the other team, which is called Team Freedom, stayed behind to protect the kingdom.  And this team consisted of Cream the rabbit, Rotor, Big the cat, Heavy, Bomb, and on a part time basis, Nicole.  
Now what's funny, is that when this split of teams happened, that's when this storyarc went downhill.  Because when you look at how these two teams were represented, it seems that team freedom was represented better than team fighters.  Because with team fighters, it was the same thing almost every issue, chase the Death Egg, fight a weaponized Mecha Sally, rinse and repeat.
While on the team freedom part of things, they were getting more character development on what they were doing.

Now of course you also had another group of the heroes that were kind of undercover.  And that was the secret freedom fighters.  Which consisted of sally's brother, two members of the Wolfpack freedom fighters, Silver The Hedgehog, an old school favorite Larry the Lynx, and helping them behind the scenes where Harvey who, Uncle Chuck, and Nicole.
Now the reason this group was formed was to secretly free the kingdom, from Nagus who usurped sally's a brother and gained the favoritism of the kingdom.   Who were not aware of Nagus's true intentions.  And that's where the secret freedom fighters come in.

Now some of you will question what are the missed opportunities that I alluded to at the beginning.   Well let's take a look at them.   

First off, when Tails is fighting Sally, she gives him  a choice to defeat her or help save a village.  Now Tails chooses to save the village, and if one thinks about it,  if Sally was truly gone, she would have attacked Tails as soon as he turned his back, but she didn't.  Which in my opinion, showed that she still had a little bit of free will left inside of her.  
This theory can also be followed up, by the fact that when she is sent to go and kill her brother, that as soon as she enters the hut, he's not there but she can plainly see that he's escaped and she looks out the window with almost a regrettable feel for what Eggman was  programming her to do.  Because she could have easily gone after him and caught up with him, but she didn't and that shows me that she still had a bit of free will left inside her.
And this is a missed opportunity, that they could have capitalized on with Dr. Eggman wondering why she didn't go after her brother or attack Tails from behind as soon as he's turned around to go help save the village.  

This is something from a story aspect that they could have really explored.  I mean if you're going to have Dr, Eggman be this is a huge threat that's always one step ahead, then you could have easily made him realize and acknowledge that Sally may still have a bit of free will remaining inside of her, and that he has to find a way to subdue it.

Another missed opportunity, was not really explaining how Sally's unwilling betrayal caused Silver's future to become desolate.  All we got was Silver making a deal with Harvey Who to be part of the secret freedom fighters in exchange for helping him find out who the traitor among the original freedom fighters was that caused his future to be in ruins.  
I mean they do you give Silver a bit of reasoning for why Sally's betrayal caused his future to be so desolate.  I agree, that during the passing of hundreds, if not thousands of years, historical facts can be misinterpreted or even lost in time.  Which could validate Silver's explanation to Sonic and company as to why Sally is look at as the traitor that caused his future to be desolate.  

But here's the biggest problem I have with this, why didn't Silver stop and question how sally's betrayal could have caused all of the desolation in his future.  Because as much as sally's situation was impactful on all the other characters, wouldn't someone like sonic betraying the freedom fighters and the world have a more direct result on the future of the planet.  Because honestly, I think it could/would, more so than that sally's unwilling betrayal.  
And when you think about it, even silver could have figured that out, but again like I said this was another missed opportunity that they could have capitalized on.

Another missed opportunity, west Tails not confronting Shard or Silver on the fact that he pretty much know that sally's brother is leading a secret undercover team if not a secret undercover operation.  I mean you could have him acknowledge that with what they were talking about to him and sonic, that he has an idea that they too are part of this secret mission that the King's a part of.  

True, it may have not been that big of a deal, but still it could have filled in several potholes and gaps.  And by not doing so, and having his teammates notice that he seems to know something they don't, kind of makes him a bit untrusting.

Another problem I had with this storyarc was the fact, that even though we had a behind the scenes issue that caused several changes in the story and several characters to be removed , I still believe that with subplots like endangered species, you could have kept some elements and scenes in there, even with the unfortunate removal of certain characters.  But they didn't do that, and that in my opinion could have helped the story.

But speaking of the endangered species plot, it's during this or towards the end of it, that you come up with a solution that dates all the way back to issue 0 of the original Sonic miniseries as an answer to help Sally be restored.   

To me, that shows desperation, and what I mean by desperation, is the fact that you have to dig back into the archives to find a last minute solution, because the original solution was taken out because of the behind the scenes lawsuits.  Again, you could have kept the original solution for Sally being restored in the story, even without certain characters involved.  But unfortunately they didn't do that.

One thing that a lot of fans know was a huge missed opportunity, was going all out with Sally's situation.  
I mean there were/are several fans, that wrote or drew possible situations that could have really helped make this storyarc a lot more intriguing and interesting.   
I mean one fan drew her as becoming so corrupted, that she ended up changing into a dragon like creature ala Ultmate Metal Sonic in Sonic Heroes.

 Now that to me could really help make this story a lot more interesting and intriguing.  Because if they would have gone in a direction like that, it would have been an interesting read.  Because then you would have the characters confronted with trying to save and restore her, but at the same time realizing that they may have to destroy her if it comes down to it, because the form she's evolve into, maybe unreversible.   
It's things like that, that are huge missed opportunities, that they could have capitalized on.

In the end, this storyarc, while it had a lot of potential and promise at the beginning, like I said at the start of this, as soon as they split the team's, that's when it all went downhill.
And let me say this, if you liked this arc, then that's fine, more power to you.  But remember, as many of you may have like this arc, there's just a wee bit more that didn't like it.

That's all for now,

[Kuzu]

4 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Oh it wasn't just those shitty old Sega Forums. I've recalled a story on here about a different forum talking about their reactions to that moment in the Iron Dominion Arc where Sonic agreed to go out for food with Amy after he saw Sally walk off with Khan. All of them were talking about how much they hated it cause they wanted Sally to be with Sonic (and seriously believed a committed relationship with Amy was a plausible threat) and one of them talked about how they literally ripped the comic in half when they saw that moment. Another person responded by saying that nothing of value was lost.

Also, back in the day, I was definitely one of the people that thought Amy was being "mistreated" even though I didn't care about relationships and drama. My problem was more that seeing her fawn over Sonic when it was clear and obvious she stood NO chance whatsoever and seeing the occasional joke made in her expense was embarrassing. I still sort of do but I'm much smarter now that I'm older and way more aware of the position Ian was in as well as way more tuned to the fact that it didn't matter.

As someone who doesn't care about relationships and relationship drama, I'm fully on board with Ian's approach of "Fuck the romance shit. I'm out." I couldn't have anymore respect for the man for recognizing its not worth it. People get way too paranoid about that crap.

I remember writing a fanfic about Tails meeting Sonic and their adventures thereafter and the instant Amy showed up I got a comment worrying about whether the fic was going to turn into a SonAmy ...even though the fic was about Tails. It confused me so much that her mere presence elicited such a strange response but I assured them that was ridiculous and not at all what was going to happen. 

As someone who has witnessed the likes of the Avatar, and Naruto shipping fandoms, they're honestly just...not worth thinking about. They're so damn passionate and involved about their ship that they forgo any and all logic; they're honestly not worth it. And I really commend Flynn for saying "Fuck it" and just nuking all of the ships.

It probably explains too why they just decided to downplay Amy's crush, because people were just obsessive about it. 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

Some people seem to think that Amy is Ian's pet character in the IDW Comics. "He makes her look better than anybody else!". 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

As far as the shipping wars go, in all fairness, this issue predates Ian.

When I got back into Archie around the early 90-100 issues in Penders era, it was a war between fans of Sally and Mina Mongoose over who Sonic would be with due to the love triangle they were pitching, so that certainly didn’t help matters either when Ian came in. It wasn’t a thing on these forums, to my knowledge at least, but I know I was definitely on camp Sally at the time due to having been used to that pairing.

Definitely for the better Ian decided to not go along with that, not that I still wouldn’t support SonicXSally if they kept it . Probably didn’t help any further when before Ian took the reins they basically paired Sonic (or Scourge rather, IIRC) with most of the major female characters, even Bunnie Rabbot of all people.

[SBR2]

14 hours ago, Silvereyes said:

I mean, if anyone can get any kindof romantic plotline, it's probably the original IDW characters.

No he said pretty clearly he's never doing any romance plots again. I guess that doesn't stop Evan Stanley from doing them but there in lies another problem. I think Ian said recently on Bumblekast that he honestly doesn't know if he or anyone else could portray Tangle or Whisper or Dr. Starline as gay since Sega is more heavily involved in these characters than they were previous OC's so they'd have to approve it.

Also on the topic of shipping wars just try and tell a hardcore Sonally or bust type about Salicole. I legit remember an artist on Tumblr doing art of Sonic giving them an ultimatum that he'd only allow them to date if they also dated him. So...yeah it's understandable why Ian would want to stay away from that minefield.

[NiTROACTiVE]

So the project "Lost Hedgehog Tales" has been removed from the Bumbleking website. While this is supposed to only be a temporary thing as said here, it is rather concerning given how chapters 2-5 are still unreleased, as we also never got new news on that project for years now. All we ever gotten so far was that the project was on "indefinite hiatus", and the Bumblekast also still won't answer questions on unused Archie Sonic material both pre-SGW and post-SGW, which makes things worse.

[DabigRG]

Boy, it's been a while since I last stepped in here. Not as long as I thought it's been, but still a span. I presume Mike's gotten rather far in that time, especially with the quarantine giving everyone extra casual time. 

Also, I plan on reposting what other tidbits and revelations that the Bumblekast has revealed about the book here.

On 7/28/2019 at 5:14 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

 

 

Issue #43 - The Dream Zone

This is a neat cover. It’s got a nice flare for the dramatic and the coloring is appropriately hazy for the sake of emulating what happens in this issue. No real complaints here. This one is pretty solid. Let’s begin.

Yeah, this is pretty good.

Only complaint I have now is the weirdness of Robotnik's cranium to chin size throwing me off now that I noticed it. It's more a reflection of the character design itself than the artstyle, though. 

Quote

Awwww snap! Look who’s walking through! It’s Dr. Quack. He’s coming through with a lollipop in hand. Is it for his patient? No, it’s for him! He’s going to town on that sucker! Oh wow. Watch as he goes up to Sally and proclaims that she was his favorite baby to deliver. Oh, so cooool. 

He’s called Dr. Quack because he’s a duck and duck’s quack. Also, though, a Quack doctor or “Quackery” is an actual term to describe someone who is a “fraudulent or ignorant pretender to medical skill”. In other words, a charlatan.

I know Dr. Quack shows up in the issues of Archie I’ve read and currently own so there’s been no shocking reveal that he’s actually a shitty doctor who doesn’t know what he’s doing. How unfortunate.

Anyway, for those wondering why I was sounding so weird at the start of this explanation on him, it’s because Dr. Quack’s intro here is also extremely strange. He struts in like he’s the cock of the walk. That lab coat might as well be a black leather jacket, the way he comes in.

It’s just strange. I don’t know if I’m okay with this, Dr. Quack.

 

Quack doctors hate it when you ask questions. 

Yeah, I don't know what Elvis-ass record Mr. Penders was listening to for inspiration here, but man is this introduction baffling. What's extra weird is that he never acts like this again, from what I can recall. 

Quote

The king is now sat in a chair inside of a fancy looking Cell Regenerator chamber. He looks exactly like a green version of The Thing from Fantastic Four. Only part of his face is squirrely now.

They reiterate that his cells are crystalizing most likely from something that he was exposed to while in the Zone of Silence and that their priority is to keep it from spreading faster. Le Quack suggested sending the king BACK in to see if the process would reverse but Sally has noped that one down because getting him out was hard enough the first time. Who knows how much harder it could be if they went in with safety precautions and supervision like she said they did numerous times before?

Oh yeah, that was a thing from SatAM as well--Naugus and the King eventually started to transform into the crystals because of the Void's effects and that's why they both have to go back in before resolving the Robotnik problem.

Quote

Rotor counters Sonic by saying that he’s amazed by his lack of faith in modern medicine.

As he speaks, suddenly we’re taken, jarringly, into the past where little kid Sonic is arguing with little kid Sally.

The weird yellow filter was, I guess, supposed to be the hint but to me it looked more like camera footage with a wide angle lens. It’s not though. Sonic and Sally’s head are just really fucking huge.

Aww. Look at the angular gremlin children.

To be fair, they’re a lot better drawn in the next panel. The huge heads of the first two panels just threw me off. 

What a segueway.

Quote

Anyway, they’re interrupted when a very nice, dapper looking gentleman cloaked in shadow asks to see King Acorn. Why it’s Warlord Julian, our dearest friend.

The king has got a reception ready for Julian’s new appointment to Minister of Science.

Oh hooray~!

The king has also approved Julian’s plans for dismantling the military (lolwut?) and that he can begin implementation at once.

OH HOORAY~!

Julian’s on board with that. He’s even got his fingers crossed behind his back for some reason.

So the king tells Julian that the transition is important and he’s got the okay to proceed immediately. He’s apparently the only one up to the task. Then he leaves and immediately Julian turns to Snively, who has hair, and tells him to ready the troops on his signal.

Oh dear. 

You know, I’m starting to think Julian might be a bad dude.

So that’s what happens. These far superior and cooler looking robot dudes then the ones from present day start attacking everything.

I guess should point out that this is almost note for note from the SatAM 2parter Blast to the Past, aside from the kids being there and Warlord Julian's outfit being different.

And yes, I have no idea what happened to those robot designs. They weren't in SatAM iirc, as the Swatbots and Hoverbots initially cause Sonic & Sally to panick before they wish them a nice day, so I have no idea why the design wasn't brought back.

Quote

Little Sally and Sonic are concerned and, who I assume is, Sally’s mom tells them to head to Rosie. 

Rosie is a character I’m aware of too. In one of the few episodes of SatAM, that I actually saw, I remember there was a two parter where they went to the past and changed things in a way that saw this Rosie character being spared from Robotization. It’s a faint memory but I do, in fact, remember it.

Oh, you did see that! Nevermind then.

Quote

Julian tells the king that he’s no longer Julian. The mofo called Julian is nomo. From this day forward he shall be known as MOJO JOJO!

I mean, Robotnik!

Robotnik is what he’s changed his name to. 

Odd. For some reason that feels like a bit of a strange leap. Also, it’s interesting how in this comic, Julian is his real name and Robotnik was a given name. It’s like the Robotnik and Eggman situation of the games only, in the games, Robotnik is still Robotnik. Eggman is just a nickname. 

However, the fact that Robotnik isn’t a family name in this book is interesting. How did the Gerald Robotnik thing get handled then? I guess I’ll wait and see. It might just be something as simple as Julian being his first name and Robotnik being his last. Or maybe Kintobor is his last name and Robotnik is just him switching it around. Then, that would make it Gerald Kintobor and Maria Kintobor and that’s just strange.

I’m thinking too much about it.

We end this part of the issue with the funniest scene yet. 

Robotnik tells the king that he’s going to banish him to the Zone of Silence. Sally’s mom overhears this up above with her daughter right next to her. She turns to Sally and goes, “Oh my!”

Brilliant.

I forgot he said that in that movie.  

But yeah, that's how it was in the SatAM except his last name was never mentioned.

Oh, I'm sure someone mentioned this already, but that's not Alicia. I believe it's the comic character Julayla, who was in a very early issue I don't think I ever read either.

Quote

We cut back to the present where the wholly necessary character of Geoffrey St. John shows back up claiming that he’s awesome because he figured that if he found Sonic, he’d find Sally.

Sally is really happy to see Geoffrey though. She gets out of her seat and zips over to him with a hug, right in front of Sonic. This causes the blue hedgehog to gag and Sally comments that he might be getting sick. 

Now I’m enjoying this because I like seeing Sonic get dunked on. However, knowing what I know now about Geoffrey and Penders’ intention with the character, it’s hard not to get a little skeeved out looking at this. 

I mean, look at this.

There’s nothing really all that wrong with this on its own but then you think back to when Penders more recently made mention of how Sally and Geoffrey totally banged each other and… it’s really gross. I just can’t separate myself from the fact that he’s depicted as being so much older than her and they’re all kissy wissy, huggy wuggy with one another like this. 

I didn’t care at all about Geoffrey until it was revealed he was a villain working for Ixis Naugus during Ian’s run. All of a sudden he shot up to being one of my favorites and it was during a time when I was still unaware of his origin or connection to Sally. I knew he was created by Penders but I didn’t know the extent of his devotion to this goddamn skunk. 

Sonic’s reaction is extraordinarily appropriate.

Interesting how Sally seems elated to see him here. I guess helping save the king assuaged whatever distrust she had of him.

But yeah, Geoffrey largely suffers from retroactive revelations/connections making his character more skeevy than intended. Like while he was always meant to be more professional than the Freedom Fighters as well as someone Sonic would reasonably not like, he probably wasn't meant to be quite as old as he ended up being revealed to be via math.

And honestly, I think it's just a reflection of Mr. Penders penchant for trying to make his work sound much more mature and sophisticated than it generally is. I mean, I never rather the Lost Ones or whatever other stuff he did, but most people know him for Sonic.

Quote

The scene gets even stranger when Dr. Quack shows up once again. They’re running with the joke that Sonic’s “not well” because of how much he’s talking about Geoffrey’s foul air and his gagging. Dr. Quack asks how his patient is doing (oh yeah, this arguing was happening right in front of the still crystalized king…) and Sally responds that something is happening but she doesn’t know what.

Wow. What a line.

Even weirder, Dr. Quack responds by bragging about how she doesn’t know because she didn’t go to med school. He then proceeds to give really bad examples of all the other doctors he studied with.

First he mentions Casey, I’m guessing a reference to Ben Casey which was an american medical drama that ran on ABC from 1961 to 1966. Then he mentions Welby, most likely a reference to Marcus Welby, M.D which was another ABC medical drama that aired from 1969 to 1976. Then finally he mentions, the master, VON FRANKENSTEIN HIMSELF.

Okay.

So he’s studied with two television drama medical doctors and the guy who created one of the most famous horror movie monsters in existence.

Gotta love them dated pop culture references.

Also, Frankenstein, really?

Quote

 

I’m actually on Sonic’s side here. Everyone in this room is off the deep end. Of course, Sally tries to explain to Sonic, again, that Dr. Quack is awesome at his job and Geoffrey teases Sonic about not having respect for medical practices. 

I don’t get what all this focus on the same subject of Dr. Quack being so fucking good at being a doctor is supposed to amount to. He hasn’t actually done anything throughout this entire issue. All this dude has done is brag about how awesome he is and then zap the king using a device that Rotor created, once, before fucking off.

Inside the king’s eye, the flashback continues, thank God.

Yeah, I was about to say, wtf is going on?

This is like those episodes where the characters are just arguing about nonsense while the real drama/weight of the episode is being reflected upon by another character who's just sitting there.

It also has the side effect of making Dr. Quack feel kinda like Geoffrey except he's a legit figure of knowledge, which comes as as being kind of a prick for no reason.

Quote

Robotnik has the king in his grasp, or rather, his robots do. He explains that he wishes to save the world from chaos by making things orderly. To do this, he invented the Roboticizer. It’s a device that’ll turn everyone into robots that obey only Robotnik’s commands. It’s the perfect way to see to it that his plans come to fruition. 

When the king calls him monstrous, Robotnik replies by saying that’s only his point of view. From Robotnik’s point of view, the king is the enemy and he must be eliminated for the good of all.

That’s good. I like this angle of Robotnik truly viewing what he’s doing as being for the good of all. Of course, the book is making no bones about the fact that he’s being incredibly selfish as well. 

Huh. Interesting that they worked that in.

Quote

He opens the portal to the Zone of Silence and tells the king to say hi to its inventor Ixis and the former warlord, Kodos. I recall Kodos being mentioned before as the one who headed up Robotnik’s stuff before Robotnik did, in a sense.

Interesting how the Acorn Kingdom only seemed to have two humans there and both of them betrayed them all. 

You'll get more on that in about 20 issues.

Quote

The king declares that he WILL get Robotnik for this as he’s being thrust into the zone. Back in the real world, the king screams out like a crazy man and everyone is concerned. The doctor, for the first time in the issue, decides to do something helpful by telling them that he’s most likely combing through his memories in an attempt to regain his former self. The more he experiences these nightmares, the worse it gets.

His plan? He’s got a device called the Dream Catcher that when used will send someone from the outside world into what’s called the Dream Zone. Sure, I’ll buy it.

The doctor also says that if anything goes wrong, the person he sends might not awaken. He asks for volunteers and Sonic, Sally, Tails, and Geoffrey all do so without hesitation, which is nice. Geoffrey even offers to flip for it. Sonic ultimately wins the coin flip and lays down to get hooked up and sent into the king’s mind.

The doctor then produces a waiver for Sonic to sign that gets the hospital out of any responsibility should anything go wrong. Sally snaps at the doctor for this and the doctor immediately backtracks on it, saying that he was just trying to inject some medical humor to lighten the tension.

Yes, I understand. Immediately after stating that if something goes wrong they’ll never wake up again it’s important to make a joke that doubles down on that notion that you’re in danger of being stuck in a coma for the rest of your life to lighten the tension.

You’re a quack.

Sonic is hooked up to the device and transported into the King’s dream

Huh. I don't remember this part, for some reason. Probably got overshadowed by Quack's introduction.

And yes, what an asshole.  After a relatively solid moment too.

Quote

. 

The king is here and he’s looking like his normal self. He recognizes Sonic as Sir Charles’ nephew (this is so weird still) and tries to contemplate how to get out. Sonic tries to explain something to him but the king ignores it.

However, before he can try again, Kodos shows up, out of nowhere, and starts swinging an axe at the king for no reason. Sonic contemplates whether or not to help him because he knows it’s just a memory being played out in the king’s head. Once he decides to go through with it, he gets zapped in the butt and stopped.

By who? By another familiar face I recall from my more current knowledge of the comics, a giant panda God monster thing called Feist.

Kodos decides it’s best they table their disagreement for now… the disagreement that HE brought up out of nowhere, mind you. Instead, he turns to Feist and, again, for no reason, says he’s gonna kill him.

It doesn’t go well.

I just saw a dude get obliterated with eye beams.

Awesome.

The king thinks he’s about to get obliterated too but Sonic speaks up again, trying his best to tell the king that this isn’t real. He’s just trapped in a dream of what already happened (which means Kodos really did get eye beamed out of existence. Holy shit.) He says this in a much more confusing way at first which prompts the king to ask him to run it by him again.

Okay, I do remember this. I just didn't remember the how.

Uh, about that parentheses...

Quote

When Sonic explains that the king has already been rescued and is resting on an operating table, the king gets viciously angry at Sonic and almost looks like he’s about to punch him, the way it’s drawn. 

Sonic asks the king to, again, let him continue. For some reason, the king is unable to let Sonic speak. I guess, being a king, he’s got a rather huge ego and his regal nature makes it so that he can’t just immediately accept when he’s wrong about something. That’s actually more interesting than the typical nice king, I suppose.

He’s not a complete asshole of course. Once he does start to listen, Sonic explains to him everything that’s gone down since he’s been stuck in this zone. Robotnik has gone about establishing his new world order. He's roboticized so many of the kingdom’s residents. A select group of people escaped to the Great Forest and set up a resistance to help fight against Robotnik but, of course, they haven’t succeeded.

Sonic says that they need the king back to offer his wisdom and experience. Somehow, I doubt that. He does mention that Sally wants her father back, which is true. As the King comes around to admitting that Sonic is right, Sonic vanishes and wakes up back in the medical bay.

That is an interesting way to look at it, though the intent is that Max is so entrapped by what he's experienced that he's having difficulty processing that it's not real.

Quote

The Quack doctor asks Rotor what the machine says and Rotor says that the crystallization has stopped. He’s still mostly crystal but the process itself will not be continuing. So that’s good. One obstacle down.

Geoffrey even manages to throw Sonic a slight compliment. 

Tails approaches Sonic with a really gross looking long neck and asks if he’s fine. Sonic delivers a cheesy final line that I will not be repeating here and the issue ends.

The majority of this issue was actually really good. The flashback was easily the best parts of it and the final confrontation with King Acorn in the Dream Zone was done pretty good as well. The only real hiccups were all the weird things happening at the start of the issue with Dr. Quack. The set-up for why he’s there and what he’s there to do takes too long and is written in a strange manner. Thankfully, once the issue gets going, it actually does become something worth your time.

I do always have a nice affinity for dark origin stories. 

Thumbs up. Can’t wait to see what’s ne-oh shit. 

I know what’s next.

Oh no.

I might just have to look that up again for context.

Good to see you enjoyed the issue overall, though.

 

On 7/28/2019 at 8:39 PM, Big Panda said:

Kintobor and Robotnik are two separate families that just so happen to be reverse-spellings of each other.

...no, really.

Julian’s dad was a Kintobor, his mother a Robotnik.

Gotta work Gerald and Maria in somehow.

Also, interesting that they don't reveal Bertha and Ivo's death dates considering Mr. Flynn once mentioned that Julian probably "did away with them."

On 7/31/2019 at 5:07 PM, Big Panda said:

I just thought: Ian’s recently been dropping details as to what the comic would’ve been had it continued (300 being a Freedom Fighters vs Eggman turning point, and the post-300 storyline being the metal virus arc).

But what about Sonic Universe? Has he revealed what issues 99 and 100 would’ve been?

I think my translation that was the last thing I did in this thread involved that: it was basically stuff accompanying/supporting the Metal Virus arc, with continuations of Bunnie and Antoine's arcs as well.

Hopefully you found your answer one way or another.

[SBR2]

In regards to Dr. Quack's first appearance I believe Penders was doing a reference to Columbo. Which seems weird since he was a detective and not a doctor.

[BlueSky]

Sometimes I get the feeling Sega gives different artistic liberties to different franchises. Sonic seems to be on a tight leash but I suppose they have their reasons, Sonic's feeling nowadays like they're doing their best to keep biggest controversials out as much as possible while having it appearing somewhat bland. Just my personal view anyway, could be due to the fact Sega has done more... interesting choices with other things. It's almost like the spirit of what I liked about the Dreamcast era is still around it's just left Sonic or something. Seeing gay couples could be interesting buut considering how much IDW kept shouting about doing their own thing I wouldn't put it past them to include "no pairings" into doing their own thing...

Another reason I'm starting to feel doubtful about how good of an idea it would be to introduce some "old cast" into the IDW verse (partly due to this certain pair I really dig). Though I have no idea, maybe the characters would fit, I have no idea what's going around in there other than a very few opinions of it being somewhat... meh? I dunno, I did read that Cosmo mini series and it was fun and energetic so maybe IDW is okay as well, but weeelll, they didn't have Sega breathing down their necks or anything. And the editorial team is different.

...has Sega even ever made any gay couples game-vise? I can figure out some characters that came out like having vague "man-crushes" but that's about it... though the time around here is what it is and my memory is my memory let alone my abilities of reading between the lines.

But yeah, fighting over pairings feels odd. I get the feeling it feels kind of nasty whenever someone breaks a pairing I kind of like by twisting characters in a way they start to feel OoC to me but well, fanfics are fanfics. I'm not going to go on a rampage on Internet over something like that waste of my energy since I feel so flegmatic towards stuff like that.

What a wall of text saying nothing really, good job me.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Not a gay couple, but the closest to a gay character would be one of the NPCs walking around Empire City’s hub in Sonic Unleashed. I forgot his name tho...

Speaking of which, I actually didn’t mind the thing they had going with Sally and Nicole. If they couldn’t have Sonic and Sally together, I would be perfectly fine with Sally and Nicole together.

[BlueSky]

Well yeah, Sally and Nicole is/was something I was pretty okay with as well. I don't know really, any pairing that seems like it has grown even semi-believably with characters not rushed in together and them being in-character is okay in general I suppose. Reading some of the stuff again after knowing about it, I think I can see some subtle hints though I didn't pay any attention to those at first but then again I can be sometimes somewhat oblivious especially since I wasn't really looking for any hints anyway...

Well, I was thinking about Sega games in general when it came to the pondering about the fact is there any gay pairings around, kind of funny to know Unleashed had some vibes on it though. I dunno, I've got some experiences with some Sega IPs but not all of them, so I wouldn't really know all off them, though I do consider myself interested in most of those I've checked out.

I dunno, I think I get the fact Sonic as a character, and probably the franchise as a whole, isn't something Sega'd be too keen in having any pairs, Sonic's supposed to be free like the wind anyway or something. It doesn't mean I myself wouldn't be okay with them if done well enough though.

I dunno, most of the time I feel like I can be okay with many a thing. Only real problems I have are about detachment of the characters when their supposed home universe is considered, it makes me loose all the interest since you know, it doesn't really matter if they're just some random actors hanging around doing their job which is the feeling too much detachment tends to give me. Happily Archie Sonic didn't really steer that way, unlike some games...

[Dr. Mechano]

You know, I've gone back to read the old 4-part "Genesis" story arc (#225-228), where the Genesis Wave rewrote reality once and - that time - temporarily. And I'm honestly really intrigued by some of the differences in that temporary universe.

In the final Archie universe established by the Super Genesis Wave, Snively is no longer related to Eggman at all. He becomes Julian Snively, his familial ties to the Doctor gone in this reality. But the first time the Genesis Wave was used? They were still related, and had what may have been the only instance of Snively actually looking up to Robotnik as an uncle and not just as his mean boss. Examples:

He defends his uncle's brilliance to Sonic, and even affectionately calls him "Uncle Eggy." This clearly isn't a Snively who hates and fears the Robotnik he works for, as his counterparts in SatAM and Archie's original universe did, but a Snively who sees Ivo as family. This short-lived universe was the one time in all of Sonic media where Robotnik and Snively had a somewhat healthy family dynamic. For such a small and lightly touched-upon detail in the grand scheme of the 4-parter, I just find this idea of Eggman as an actual good uncle and mentor (well, "good" relative to Julian openly abusing Snively, anyway) really intriguing.

I understand why we didn't spend more time in this universe, but I still kinda wish we had.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Really makes you hate the “Game characters can’t have families” mandate, huh?